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The State of Clear

Martini said:
One of the patterns I've noticed since being out and perusing the forums is this:

1) Person left Scientology because of some bad ethics cycle, etc. NOT because the tech didn't work.
2) Person then reads all the black p.r. on the net.
3) Person invalidates all their gains from auditing and training.
4) Person then absolves themselves of it ever having worked, and joins the fashionable crowd of people calling it all a hoax and scam.
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Careful, you border on being politically incorrect....:whistling:

:)
 
alex said:
I think that the general consensus is that the clear of the 1950s is more likely to be a "clear on all dynamics" upper ot level.

I went clear running dianetics and didnt get to do the clearing course, but have read the materials, and believe I would have a "stronger" clearness if I had done the CC materials.

But I still remember having the clear cog, seeing myself creating the mechanism, and then realizing what I was doing. With out the training side of things, I was a pretty "cleared canibal" as a person afterwards.

I do believe though that there is a point at which a person has a realization that profoundly changes how they further model their lives. That was my experience.

I am horrified that your wife was put back on dianetics though!! That sure must have stirred up the shit.

alex
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That was my experience, too.
 
So? You were handed a post that described "out tech" under Miscavige. That you can deal with. It's a piece of pie for you. "Tech is out," etc. Can you possibly understand that most people don't want to be any kind of L. Ron Hubbard certified "Clear"?
 
Veda said:
So? You were handed a post that described "out tech" under Miscavige. That you can deal with. It's a piece of pie for you. "Tech is out," etc. Can you possibly understand that most people don't want to any kind of L. Ron Hubbard certified "Clear"?
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It is interesting Veda, how much it seems to rile you that some people do want it.
 
Martini said:
That is the Scientology Standard Tech mindset, period. I don't have a problem with people having moved beyond it. I don't preach this stuff. I don't even deliver it anymore. I just know what I know. And here was a chance to express it, so I did. I'm not advocating anyone do anything with it, this is just a discussion board.

I think for some it is upsetting because they'd rather not contemplate that potential truth.
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Are you upset?

Would you like to tell us about it?
 
Veda said:
So? You were handed a post that described "out tech" under Miscavige. That you can deal with. It's a piece of pie for you. "Tech is out," etc. Can you possibly understand that most people don't want to be any kind of L. Ron Hubbard certified "Clear"?
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Sure.
 
You lost your credibility when you wrote that you're not a Freezoner or a Scientologist, and combined that assertion with the pabulum below.

Martini said:
One of the patterns I've noticed since being out and perusing the forums is this:

1) Person left Scientology because of some bad ethics cycle, etc. NOT because the tech didn't work.
2) Person then reads all the black p.r. on the net.
3) Person invalidates all their gains from auditing and training.
4) Person then absolves themselves of it ever having worked, and joins the fashionable crowd of people calling it all a hoax and scam.
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I think you overplayed your hand.
 
Veda said:
You lost your credibility when you wrote that you're not a Freezoner or a Scientologist, and combined that assertion with the pabulum below.



I think you overplayed your hand.
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What "credibility"? Martini is just a contributor to a public forum, same's'you an' I. I don't recall him asking for anyone's debit card number.
 
Veda said:
You lost your credibility when you wrote that you're not a Freezoner or a Scientologist, and combined that assertion with the pabulum below.



I think you overplayed your hand.
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I think you need to improve your tolerance of other viewpoints.
 
Pixie said:
:dontfeedtrolls:
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Is a troll considered someone who expresses a different view than the consensus on this board? I see this term thrown around a lot in the threads I've been looking at.

I don't get it. We all just got out of a mind control cult and now it seems a similar op basis exists here. If someone expresses something other than Scientology sucks 100% and is a fraud, they are called a troll.

That's group think at its best.
 
Martini said:
Is a troll considered someone who expresses a different view than the consensus on this board? I see this term thrown around a lot in the threads I've been looking at.

I don't get it. We all just got out of a mind control cult and now it seems a similar op basis exists here. If someone expresses something other than Scientology sucks 100% and is a fraud, they are called a troll.

That's group think at its best.
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Oh, I think you must have missed the witch hunt hysteria of a couple or so weeks ago. On and on and on and on about trolls trolls trolls. Lots of unspecified posts- more than one thread, too- making vague insinuations that there are trolls here trying to disrupt things, never naming anyone (Well, it would have been a breach of the rules of conduct for them to do so, so I guess that's why.), but the upshot was that anyone tangling with anyone else who had a minority viewpoint was considered by a couple people to be trolls. A similar approach has been used on a number of boards re OSA witchhunt and hysteria. People posting enough info about themselves to disprove such insinuations and accusations were then accused of doing OSA's work.

The only thing you can do is continue to post from your heart as to what you feel. There are plenty of non CofS Scn'ists on here who get along with most of the contributors here. So just establish your own track record, be true to yourself, and rock on!
 
Martini said:
I think you need to improve your tolerance of other viewpoints.
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Martini, I don't think you are a troll. Thanks for clearing that you are not freezoner either btw.

On this board you get all the rainbow and shades of tolerance, from non existent to complete and utter over the top tolerance. Some will accept when they are wrong, some will not do so and be trenched in their knowingness until the day they die. You sound like a person who can take a punch, and give as good as you get. But the real question is, can you write a post that makes sense with only three words? Can you wear pink in you avatar? Can you boogie in Vegas in April?
The rest are arbitaries.
 
Lovesnightsky said:
Martini, I don't think you are a troll. Thanks for clearing that you are not freezoner either btw.

On this board you get all the rainbow and shades of tolerance, from non existent to complete and utter over the top tolerance. Some will accept when they are wrong, some will not do so and be trenched in their knowingness until the day they die. You sound like a person who can take a punch, and give as good as you get. But the real question is, can you write a post that makes sense with only three words? Can you wear pink in you avatar? Can you boogie in Vegas in April?
The rest are arbitaries.
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Best dancer here!
 
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