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The State of Clear

I deleted the video because the title ridiculed the performers, and I began to feel sorry for them a bit, and also began to like them.

As for my comments, this could go on forever. All I can tell you is that those poeple I knew in Scientology knew about most of these items. They knew, for example, that David Mayo had been declared an SP, and they knew about the mass mailing of a black PR piece called "Story of a Squirrel." They knew about, for example, the Finance Dictator, and the Finance Dictator had been introduced to the membership at Scientology events. And it goes on, and on.

But I really don't want to argue about it.
Fair enough. Mayo, yes, as I stated in my earlier response. I, personally, never heard of the Finance Police until 2008. We possibly lived a rather sheltered life here in Oz but I don't want to argue about it either.

PS: I'll delete the video too in keeping with your change of heart.
 
Nonetheless, you seem to possess a clear misconception
Mark A. Baker

Ok, I guess it's finally time for me to get to the root of your/our problem Has it ever occurred to you that your compulsion to piss people off with arrogant, though well planned out, ambush type accusations and insinuations in matters that you are far less experienced in than, say, the majority of old timers who've seen it all by now, is due to a perverse S&M fetish whereby you enjoy seeing yourself publicly strung up & flogged by senior, highly intelligent former Scientologists that have survived far worse than anything you could ever conceive of slinging their way? I feel like I can hold my own with most adversaries but I would seldom be stupid enough to try to tackle some of these people as I would merely embarrass myself. However, you seem to thrive upon the very thing that I try so hard to steer clear of, irregardless of my innate tendency to shoot my mouth off. What is so orgasmic for you about being publically flogged? Remember those steel bird cages that the village idiot would be placed in, naked to the world, while people scoffed, laughed and threw rocks at during the middle ages? Hell of an incident to find oneself stuck in. But, I will say that you bring upon yourself a shame that takes an incredible amount of guile, intellect and planning, and for that my hat is off to you, as long as my head is not severed and in that same hat ...figuratively speaking of course. God man, can’t you just relax on the arrogant, insulting rhetoric for a minute or two, ever?

:unsure::unsure::unsure::unsure::unsure:
 
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Ok, I guess it's finally time for me to get to the root of your/our problem Has it ever occurred to you that your compulsion to piss people off with arrogant, though well planned out, ambush type accusations and insinuations in matters that you are far less experienced in than, say, the majority of old timers who've seen it all by now, is due to a perverse S&M fetish whereby you enjoy seeing yourself publicly strung up & flogged by senior, highly intelligent former Scientologists that have survived far worse than anything you could ever conceive of slinging their way? I feel like I can hold my own with most adversaries but I would seldom be stupid enough to try to tackle some of these people as I would merely embarrass myself. However, you seem to thrive upon the very thing that I try so hard to steer clear of, irregardless of my innate tendency to shoot my mouth off. What is so orgasmic for you about being publically flogged? Remember those steel bird cages that the village idiot would be placed in, naked to the world, while people scoffed, laughed and threw rocks at during the middle ages? Hell of an incident to find oneself stuck in. But, I will say that you bring upon yourself a shame that takes an incredible amount of guile, intellect and planning, and for that my hat is off to you, as long as my head is not severed and in that same hat ...figuratively speaking of course. God man, can’t you just relax on the arrogant, insulting rhetoric for a minute or two, ever?

:unsure::unsure::unsure::unsure::unsure:

<EDIT>
 
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Ok, I guess it's finally time for me to get to the root of your/our problem ...

Hey, YOUR the one with the obvious misconception about ESMB's purpose and what constitutes an 'ex-scientologist' for the purposes of this board. Don't go laying your hangups on me. :p

Did you read the FAQ yet?


Mark A. Baker
 
Hey, YOUR the one with the obvious misconception about ESMB's purpose and what constitutes an 'ex-scientologist' for the purposes of this board. Don't go laying your hangups on me. :p

Did you read the FAQ yet?


Mark A. Baker
Mark, I can't believe that you said YOUR instead of YOU'RE! :omg:
 
I don't feel any personal need to have those things in my sig line, Toad, and it has absolutely nothing to do with "assumed altitude". Those notes are simply there for the benefit of still-in scientologists lurking here. I think it would be quite helpful to lurkers if more people did this. We have many highly trained and processed Exes here, we have former C/S's and Senior C/S's, we have long serving Staff and SO Members and former Int Management Staff, I think we even have the former ED International, if memory serves. Scientologists lurking might benefit from knowing these people are here and willing to talk to them about their concerns.

.

Very valid point Panda.

One thing that just about all here agree upon is that the CO$ took a bad turn
and that the organisation is now a disaster zone.

The former ED INT Bill Franks has posted here.

The former C'S INT and Hubbard's auditor posts here.

These positions are as high as it gets. The qualifications obtained by them
are as high as it gets. And there are others with similar qualifications who also
post here.

There are also others formerly in very high positions and also highly qualified
who post on other areas of the net, or who have in the past. Whether they still
like scn or have abandoned it, they are a who's who of the best and brightest
that have been in the Church, unified by their disgust of the current organisation.

And then there are the anons.
 
snipped.


One should not make another wrong for his information or lack if information. It's the human condition.

A more helpful and civil approach is, to the best of our ability, provide correct information and honor the decency of the other guy on the basis of expecting him to honestly and decently use the information to come to correct decisions and actions.

RogerB


Aw, thanks for that ... I expect you'll be helpful and civil to Terril in future then ... and not feel quite so inclined to ridicule him at every opportunity while providing the correct information/tekky opinion?


:old:​
 
One thing that just about all here agree upon is that the CO$ took a bad turn
and that the organisation is now a disaster zone.

Hum sorry
I don't agree and I beleive we dont' all agree :unsure:

To me
the CO$ never took a bad turn
It was a bad turn
It's not NOW a disaster zone
It always have been a disaster zone

The only difference with now and then
Is that now we know
because people shared on internet
and that some critics had the courage
to speak first
(plus the exposing of anonymous)

So we could know about the abuses of Miscaviges
the abuses of LRH
the abuses ot the ''so called tech''
And the Xenu - body thetans - LRH the messiah stuff.
 
The State of Clear takes Turd Polishing to an Art Form.

Very valid point Panda.
<snip>
And there are others with similar qualifications who also
post here.
<snip>
... they are a who's who of the best and brightest
that have been in the Church....
<snip>

Uh, let me guess.... the 3 with the highest altitude here would be TP, Panda, & MAB.
Right?

Should I now bow ?
 
Hum sorry
I don't agree and I beleive we dont' all agree :unsure:

To me
the CO$ never took a bad turn
It was a bad turn
It's not NOW a disaster zone
It always have been a disaster zone

The only difference with now and then
Is that now we know
because people shared on internet
and that some critics had the courage
to speak first
(plus the exposing of anonymous)

So we could know about the abuses of Miscaviges
the abuses of LRH
the abuses ot the ''so called tech''
And the Xenu - body thetans - LRH the messiah stuff.

Oh, now, don't be a spoil sport. Marty and the Marty Supporters among us here plus that whole FreeZone thing of quasi -scns seem to all agree that LRH was the Messiah and only when the midget came on the scene was " The Tech" was defiled.

The world was wonderful if only we could get back to pre COB.

Can't the OTs just postulate it all right so we don't have to put up with the big mess by little davie boy ??
 
Very valid point Panda.

One thing that just about all here agree upon is that the CO$ took a bad turn
and that the organisation is now a disaster zone.

The former ED INT Bill Franks has posted here.

The former C'S INT and Hubbard's auditor posts here.

These positions are as high as it gets. The qualifications obtained by them
are as high as it gets. And there are others with similar qualifications who also
post here.

There are also others formerly in very high positions and also highly qualified
who post on other areas of the net, or who have in the past. Whether they still
like scn or have abandoned it, they are a who's who of the best and brightest
that have been in the Church, unified by their disgust of the current organisation.

And then there are the anons.

What I find fascinating is the complete lack of interest that those, who are in, have for history of the organization, what LRH was like, stories of the past.

I'll give some examples from different decades.

Back in the 60s, at (what was then) the Santa Clara center on Cronin and McKinley (it is now called SNC in San Jose on Lundy Rd. having morphed into the Stevens Creek mission along the way), my wife and I established a historical archive of the founding of the center by Walt Lamb, Clarence and Boots Bouncher, Alex and Bernadette Centola, Kaye Romeo, and perhaps others I've left out. We brought the file up to present time, with articles and photos from the Mark and Ellen Jones period. We had a complete file of our newsletters and promotions. For instance, for several years running, we put on a drug symposium. One of our speakers was John Vasconcellos, the local assemblyman, who became chairman of the state ways and means committee ( probably the second most powerful member of the assembly). He got auditing. John Brodie, quarterback for the 49ers (pro football team) started out at Santa Clara. We had some really nice historical archives.

When we left, I heard from someone, that they had all been trashed.

Another example:

My friend, Snooky Weiss, was one of only two people on the original class Vlll course, who wasn't over boarded. She used to sneak up to LRH's cabin, and chat with him most every night. I've been with Snooky, in the last few years, when she was talking to a Scientologist, who was in. That guy had no interest whatsoever in hearing any personal tales that Snooky might have. I think his computation was that she was out, so noting she could say would be acceptable. Any way, complete lack of interest.

Phil Spickler has great stories (good and bad) of LRH for three decades. I don't see any Scientologists even sitting him down and pumping him for human interest stories of the founder.

It looks to me like the cult's current members don't ever want to remember what and why things happened before today.
 
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