There will never bee a 'truthful Scientology' because, the truth will mean the end of Scientology.
Zinj
War crimes: Are exes accountable for things they did when they were in?
- Thread starter Lulu Belle
- Start date
There will never bee a 'truthful Scientology' because, the truth will mean the end of Scientology.
Zinj
Good twin
Floater
The truth about Scientology. = It's always worse than you think.
Gadfly
Crusader
Gadfly, actually I completely agree with this and for me I feel just as responsible as those who were directly on recruit or reg lines even though I tended to work more in support type rolls. It's amazing how you can work for an organization like this for years for 50 cents an hour because your purpose is to HELP and it just gets turned around 180 degrees.
I feel though that because of my past involvement with the Co$ (and the knowledge obtained) that this now gives me an opportunity to REALLY help people........help make others aware of the dangers before they get in, and help others to get out.
Interestingly, or strangely, I have found that no matter what I imagined or idealized about ANYTHING in life, it turned out out be quite different when I actually came to live it. Not always "bad", but almost always "different" than expected or anticipated. In other words, what I thought I was doing, was almost NEVER what I was actually doing (especially in retrospect)!
This phenomena is exaggerated in SCN because public are sytematically indoctrinated along a path of "all is good" and "there is NOTHING EVER BAD about us". While not necessarily spoken out loud, this viewpoint is gently, slowly, gradually and subtly enforced. The whole slant of INT PR is a constant barrage of "good news", "how great we are", "how bad the enemy is", and so forth. This "positive" information content is ruthless and constant. It comes down and through EVERY channel. What I came to realize is that often, much of the time, what you are told in briefings, at events and at staff musters by those doing the PRing, involves extremely spun data, manufactured "facts", and misrepresentations of reality. The Church "Scientologist" really exists in an "alternate universe", because the data he or she accepts and thinks with is so contrived and fabricated. Confronting the "truth" involves becoming willing to view the larger picture, to see what the Church has done without you knowing, and to confront what the Church does out in the open, but which you were failing to view correctly previously (declares, heavy ethics, control, etc). Some of the data (what the Church has done and continues to do) needs to be re-evaluated within a new and different CONTEXT. A context DIFFERENT from the usual "we are saving the universe", KSW-type Scientology fanaticism.
There is some good in SCN. That is what makes it so hard for people - on both sides. Those in the Church focus extensively, and to too large a degree on the "good", neglecting and failing to acknowledge the "bad". Those on the "other side", at times tend to focus extensively, and to too large a degree on the "bad", neglecting and failing to acknowledge the "good". It makes it tough for anybody to agree. Add in ego attachment to each viewpoint, and it becomes quite hopeless. Also though, the Church viewpoint is strictly monitored, controlled and corrected to exist a certain way by the very structure of Scn management. It is hard to come to any understanding with or obtain compromise from unmoving, "unreasonable" strict Scientology fanatics who act out EVERY role from the LRH playbook. In my experience, Church staff NEVER aim to communicate with understanding. Their ONLY aim is to PRETEND to communicate and understand, with the REAL aim to HANDLE you according to some policy or plan (get your money, get you to join staff, get you to stop attacking, get you to stop reading Internet sites, etc), in alignment with some dumbass INT admin scale, which views the survival and expansion of Scientology as THE TOP MOST IMPORTANT ACTIVITY. All else is secondary (to them).
It is this "good" aspect of Scientology though that becomes the entire focus of attention when any member gets first involved, and the "wins" and "successes" are constantly mentioned and pointed out, with "success stories" and "giving wins" heavily pushed. People need to realize what it does to a person to get him or her to stand up and tell everybody else just how amazing and wonderful everything is or was - it LOCKS the "positive" in place, and acts to make it more difficult to notice and confront any "bad" in the future.
Hubbard was a sneaky bastard, getting public to write successes (attesting, promising, asserting, claiming as a fact) and especially to stand up and communicate wins to OTHERS. It feeds the other public an endless stream of "wonderful wins", and it solidifies the viewpoint of "all is good" with the person giving the win. I see that psychologically, this non-stop soliticing of success stories and wins is an ingredient that hardens the "fanatical epoxy". I suspect Hubbard knew exactly what he was doing and planned it THAT way. The entire "success sharing" aspect of Scientology acts to psychologically set the hook deeper and faster.
Just an observation - sort of thinking out loud here. :confused2:
La La Lou Lou
Crusader
Maybe we should have an amnesty.
Write up all the times you failed to blow, the times you could have written a KR on insane bosses, but didnt, the times you obeyed the jerk and got out of bed to do some thing that wouldnt benefit anyone.
The write ups will be put in a hat and the first ten will be forgiven, the next ten will have to repair all damage done and the next one will be forced to replace DM.
I think all exes should stop the self-pity guilt trip thing, that just helps the dark side. Could even be getting stirred by them.
Life isnt fair, it's random. You made terrible mistakes, you allowed ogres to eat little girls with curly blond hair. If it takes a lifetimes project saving lives to overcome your guilt, fine. But at the end you really do forgive yourself, and feel wonderful about what you did, then fine. Only you yourself can work out how to accept yourself again.
If you really think that the tech helps people, then someone deciding to get people back having the fluffy tech, in their mind is a solution, and knowing that theyre helping people maybe they love themselves. I would say theyre deluded, but slightly less deluded than when they were in the 'church'.
Murderers chucked in a slammer dont burst into tears and beg to see their victims family to appologise, at least not in the first five minutes. It takes a long time to change a viewpoint. And once you realise you shouldnt have ripped his heart out with the nailfile, you have years to work on finding the real you, and become, if you really work at it, a member of the human race again.
But no matter how bad you were, you didnt cut out someones still beating heart with a nailfile!
I think it's all subjective, but I dont believe anyone should slit their wrists, or create their own RPF. Theres plenty of voluntary work you can do. Theres really helping friends and neighbours, the family you ignored so much if you were in the SO. Give people real practical help. Help people recover from cults. But dont go round with a ruddy petition for me to sign! And I dont think you need to call all the victims of your FSMing days to appologise, or repay the money they paid into the church.
Write up all the times you failed to blow, the times you could have written a KR on insane bosses, but didnt, the times you obeyed the jerk and got out of bed to do some thing that wouldnt benefit anyone.
The write ups will be put in a hat and the first ten will be forgiven, the next ten will have to repair all damage done and the next one will be forced to replace DM.
I think all exes should stop the self-pity guilt trip thing, that just helps the dark side. Could even be getting stirred by them.
Life isnt fair, it's random. You made terrible mistakes, you allowed ogres to eat little girls with curly blond hair. If it takes a lifetimes project saving lives to overcome your guilt, fine. But at the end you really do forgive yourself, and feel wonderful about what you did, then fine. Only you yourself can work out how to accept yourself again.
If you really think that the tech helps people, then someone deciding to get people back having the fluffy tech, in their mind is a solution, and knowing that theyre helping people maybe they love themselves. I would say theyre deluded, but slightly less deluded than when they were in the 'church'.
Murderers chucked in a slammer dont burst into tears and beg to see their victims family to appologise, at least not in the first five minutes. It takes a long time to change a viewpoint. And once you realise you shouldnt have ripped his heart out with the nailfile, you have years to work on finding the real you, and become, if you really work at it, a member of the human race again.
But no matter how bad you were, you didnt cut out someones still beating heart with a nailfile!
I think it's all subjective, but I dont believe anyone should slit their wrists, or create their own RPF. Theres plenty of voluntary work you can do. Theres really helping friends and neighbours, the family you ignored so much if you were in the SO. Give people real practical help. Help people recover from cults. But dont go round with a ruddy petition for me to sign! And I dont think you need to call all the victims of your FSMing days to appologise, or repay the money they paid into the church.
La La Lou Lou
Crusader
OK Zinge, sorry, under the swimmingpool at SaintHill.
Blue Spirit
Silver Meritorious Patron
Type4_PTS
Diamond Invictus SP
After reading your post I decided maybe I'd better clarify what I wrote earlier. I'm long past the point of feeling bad about my involvement with the Co$. My purpose for joining was to help and I didn't ever intentionally do anything to hurt another. I don't feel as though I'm in lower conditions or I have to do amends or anything like that. But, intentionally or not I contributed to helping create a monster, and because of my past experience I have much greater understanding of the monster and it's destructiveness. So my feeling is one of wanting to help others escape the monster or avoid encountering it in the first place. Those of us here on ESMB and the other message boards understand the destructiveness of the Co$ more so than 99.9% of the general population concerning the Co$. I WOULD feel bad if I said nothing and didn't try to make others aware of what I know. If I saw a total stranger walking down the road about to step onto a poisenous snake, I'd warn them. Same thing here with Co$. I'm warning people about "snakes" that they may not be aware of. Not because I feel I must make amends, but because I see the "snakes" that others may be unaware of and I'm a human being. We would want others to do the same for us.
lkwdblds
Crusader
I do appreciate your understanding thoughts
Good Twin - Thanks so much for being understanding and trying to encompass my point of view. I received a post from Mick Weinlock which is just total venom. I don't know quite what to make of it. I am coming to see how the material covered by this thread is right where a lot of ESMB members "live". It is a very sensitive point to many ex Scientologists and especially to ex Sea Org members. If I had it to do over again, I would not have written that post which stirred up so much venom against me. I can see that my choice of words was not the best.
I was in the Sea Org but it was only for two years, way back in 1971 to 1973.
I started as an Interne at CCLA auditing staff on Dianetics and was moved to Treasury where I basically wrote checks and kept track of the accounts. My time there was about 2 years and then I was transferred to the Apollo. I was on post there and was supposed to write Evals but I could not do so because I had not done the Evaluators' Course (that lasted 3 weeks) and then I spent 5 weeks on the EPF swabbing decks and chipping rust. When they would not repost me, I demanded to be routed out and they complied.
In all of these capacities I had, I was usually below decks or in the basement at CCLA and never interacted with new public. That is one reason I did not feel guilty of being out ethics when I left. I did contribute lots of money to CCLA before I joined staff and I did support that Org and Scientology in general as far as trying to help it to grow.
I had 30 more years as public in my Scientology career. It was all spent taking admin and tech course and getting auditing. Again I did spend lots of money and also spent about 10K for me and my family towards the IAS.
With the help of you, Carmel and Gadfly I see that by contributing my money, my time, my physical labor and my postulates to aid Scientology I am complicit to some degree in various harmful practices which C of S perpetrates on the public. I just do not have the emotional involvement with the part I played in furthering these harmful practices the way you guys have. You who are deeply emotionally involved have seen worse things, even going so far as deaths to loved ones, than I have ever encountered and you were probably closer to the action than I was.
I have thought a lot about this topic today and I wonder how far one has to take it to be an ethical being. We in the USA pay taxes to our government. This government once slaughtered Native Americans and had legalisation which legalized slavery and in more recent times they have interened loyal citizens of Japanese decent in internement camps during World War II and much more recently participated in overthrowing the sovereign country of Iraq and the government of Afghanistan. Should one feel guilty for being an American, paying taxes and / or serving in the military. I certainly do not feel any need to feel guilty over being an American. The Scientology question is much different but there are some parallels. I guess it is a very complex situation about deciding the ethical road to take when becoming an ex scientologist.
Lkwdblds
Good Twin - Thanks so much for being understanding and trying to encompass my point of view. I received a post from Mick Weinlock which is just total venom. I don't know quite what to make of it. I am coming to see how the material covered by this thread is right where a lot of ESMB members "live". It is a very sensitive point to many ex Scientologists and especially to ex Sea Org members. If I had it to do over again, I would not have written that post which stirred up so much venom against me. I can see that my choice of words was not the best.
I was in the Sea Org but it was only for two years, way back in 1971 to 1973.
I started as an Interne at CCLA auditing staff on Dianetics and was moved to Treasury where I basically wrote checks and kept track of the accounts. My time there was about 2 years and then I was transferred to the Apollo. I was on post there and was supposed to write Evals but I could not do so because I had not done the Evaluators' Course (that lasted 3 weeks) and then I spent 5 weeks on the EPF swabbing decks and chipping rust. When they would not repost me, I demanded to be routed out and they complied.
In all of these capacities I had, I was usually below decks or in the basement at CCLA and never interacted with new public. That is one reason I did not feel guilty of being out ethics when I left. I did contribute lots of money to CCLA before I joined staff and I did support that Org and Scientology in general as far as trying to help it to grow.
I had 30 more years as public in my Scientology career. It was all spent taking admin and tech course and getting auditing. Again I did spend lots of money and also spent about 10K for me and my family towards the IAS.
With the help of you, Carmel and Gadfly I see that by contributing my money, my time, my physical labor and my postulates to aid Scientology I am complicit to some degree in various harmful practices which C of S perpetrates on the public. I just do not have the emotional involvement with the part I played in furthering these harmful practices the way you guys have. You who are deeply emotionally involved have seen worse things, even going so far as deaths to loved ones, than I have ever encountered and you were probably closer to the action than I was.
I have thought a lot about this topic today and I wonder how far one has to take it to be an ethical being. We in the USA pay taxes to our government. This government once slaughtered Native Americans and had legalisation which legalized slavery and in more recent times they have interened loyal citizens of Japanese decent in internement camps during World War II and much more recently participated in overthrowing the sovereign country of Iraq and the government of Afghanistan. Should one feel guilty for being an American, paying taxes and / or serving in the military. I certainly do not feel any need to feel guilty over being an American. The Scientology question is much different but there are some parallels. I guess it is a very complex situation about deciding the ethical road to take when becoming an ex scientologist.
Lkwdblds
Free to shine
Shiny & Free
Lkwdblds, it's good that you are looking and trying to make sense of all this. Part of the indoctrination is "see no evil, hear no evil..." and it's how many scientologists survive scientology. I know public often don't have a clue about what was going on in other places. This is your opportunity to really get the picture from the stories and accounts from the people who were there. If you stand in their shoes, just for a minute as you read those stories, it can help explain the reactions you see, and to also see the bigger picture of how scientology uses that induced blindness to cover it's tracks.
lkwdblds
Crusader
Just an acknowledgement to this post.
I just want to acknowledge reading your post. I don't want to engage in any counter smear attacks against you. I will say this; you have got me figured totally wrong. I only just read Rathburn's website for the first time last week spending about 15 minutes there. OSA did not exist when I was in the S.O. from 1971 to 1973, even the G.O. was just getting started. I know no one from OSA. I have never cared for DM right from the beginning when he spoke at the L.A. event announcing that LRH had died. I thought the story he made up about LRH dropping a perfectly healthy body to go do higher level research which could only be done without a body was an obvious lie and scam. I realized, even then, that if the public were given the truth that his body gave out, there would have been tens of thousands of defections from C of S and stats would have dropped like a stone. From there on, my opinion of DM came to be lower and lower but never higher.
I chose my words poorly in writing the post of mine which you quoted. It seems to have touched a nerve on a lot of people but I meant no disrespect to other people such as Carmel and Good Twin. It was a case of a poorly worded post not resonating well with many members of ESMB and rightly so. Now that I have read their reactions I understand that.
Lkwdblds
I just want to acknowledge reading your post. I don't want to engage in any counter smear attacks against you. I will say this; you have got me figured totally wrong. I only just read Rathburn's website for the first time last week spending about 15 minutes there. OSA did not exist when I was in the S.O. from 1971 to 1973, even the G.O. was just getting started. I know no one from OSA. I have never cared for DM right from the beginning when he spoke at the L.A. event announcing that LRH had died. I thought the story he made up about LRH dropping a perfectly healthy body to go do higher level research which could only be done without a body was an obvious lie and scam. I realized, even then, that if the public were given the truth that his body gave out, there would have been tens of thousands of defections from C of S and stats would have dropped like a stone. From there on, my opinion of DM came to be lower and lower but never higher.
I chose my words poorly in writing the post of mine which you quoted. It seems to have touched a nerve on a lot of people but I meant no disrespect to other people such as Carmel and Good Twin. It was a case of a poorly worded post not resonating well with many members of ESMB and rightly so. Now that I have read their reactions I understand that.
Lkwdblds
Type4_PTS
Diamond Invictus SP
You made some great points in your post (as usual).
This particular phenomena you mentioned above reminds me of the anecdote about the boiling frog story.
"The premise is that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability of people to react to important changes that occur gradually."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog
Many of us years later after getting out are wondering how we ever came to buy all the BS from Hubbard and the Co$ that we did. It was very slick how it was all put together.
Winston Smith
Flunked Scientology
That is the best outcome
Type4_PTS
Diamond Invictus SP
Gadfly
Crusader
Feel guilty as an American? That is such as strange, GENERAL undefinable idea. What the hell IS an "American"? There is no such thing, outside of some idea or concept. There ARE stereotypes, caricatures, comic characterizations, and IDEALS of some group related to the concept "american", but really, thinking with such ideas is utterly useless. Heck, I was born, raised and live in America, BUT I don't consider myself an "American". I don't accept and plaster on myself some set of attitudes, beliefs and opinions that portray some version of an "American". I suppose, I don't consider myself anything (too much meditation . . . .). The same applies to the entire relationship to and with Scientology.
Nobody should feel "guilty" about ANYTHING. I agree with Hubbard on that - blame, shame and regret are useless emotional responses. Be responsible for what you feel you need to be responsible for, deal with it however you feel that you should, and move on accordingly.
Why does it have to be an "ethical" road? All of this concern for "ethics" is so SCIENTOLOGY-LIKE! Just be an honest and decent fellow, to the best of your ability. Scientology creates the habit for people of MICRO-MANAGING ones behavior (through ethics). Is this right? Is this wrong? Is this the greatest good? Could I be doing more? Yap, yap, yap. As far as I am concerned, simply posting honestly on this board, with the high chance that still-hooked members may/will read it, and change his or her view to some degree, is plenty "doingness" to "make up" for whatever was done while in the group. Though true - some people did much worse, and more often, than others less far involved.
Get into PT, and deal with whatever life you find yourself in NOW. The ONLY Church that really matters is the current version that acts in PT. Past versions of the Church mainly exist as an IDEA, able to be discussed historically, and to show typical (nasty and harmful) behavior patterns based on extant LRH policies over a long period of time (disconnection, declares, control, PR, lying, manipulation, slimy underhanded OSA tactics, etc).
The Scientology "experience" is different for every single person (within a certain general framework anyway). You don't have to "feel" what Paulette Cooper felt, or suffer emotionally as Gabe Cevarez did when the Church set them each up in phony crimes, all but trashing their lives, BUT you can understand and decide that this is deplorable behavior from ANY group. Just assimilate the information, re-evaluate newly at every moment, and know what you know.
Gadfly
Crusader
Hubbard never HID any of what he was doing from any of us.
GRADIENTS
That is what you described above. Non-Aristotelian logic. Absolutes don't exist, but ONLY the many varying "gradient" states between the two imaginary extremes exist in the "real world" of experience. The idea of gradients also stems from Korzybski's theory of general semantics (as his system was the first "non-Aristotelian" form of logic). Hubbard borrowed extensively from Korzybski's writings. It is an interesting idea. Maybe it is all Alfred's fault. If he hadn't come up with the idea of gradients, absolutes, and relative gradual states, Hubbard may not have ever come up with the "Bridge" (as it is based on the notion of a gradient). Kidding - about it being Alfred's fault.
The concept of "gradients" is an integral part of Scientology "theory". It exists as an aspect of the universe (in some ways, from a certain perspective).
But, Hubbard told you all about it, in detail, and as he did with so many other types of similar data, he then USED IT AGAINST YOU TO ENSNARE YOU!
The same with the PR Series. You can read all about it, he explains it in fine detail, and then the Church "uses" it against staff and public every day to form and manipulate "beliefs" and "agreements"!
Hubbard - quite the tricky fellow he was . . . .
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Good twin
Floater
When the penny dropped for me ...... one of the first things I thought of was the "how to boil a frog" story. I first heard it from CO OSA EUS at a fundraiser for the IAS. It was told to explain how the population was becoming immoral by the gradual indoctrination of the evil psyches. Was funny seeing it from a Scientology critic's point of view.
Like most Exes I used Scientology to unravel myself from Scientology. I did the doubt formula, I used the Data Series, I word cleared and False data stripped and went earlier similar to whole track implants. I worked out how to apply "Personal Integrity" and the "Optimum Solution".
The funny thing is even using Scientology to evaluate Scientology it still doesn't amount to more than a cartoon philosophy wrapped in Lies and PR. It's smoke and mirrors. It would be funny if so many of us hadn't taken it so seriously. That's why Anonymous is so amazing to us. They call a spade a spade and a joke a joke. Scientology is lulzy as hell until people get hurt.
I'm not working on some amends project for the damage I caused. I'm not trying to balance out some karma. I'm not looking for sympathy or forgiveness. I'm just working through how I ever believed what I was doing was valuable enough to justify the damage. Hearing other points of view helps. I believed because I chose to. I believed because I needed to.
I don't anymore. I'm sorry that I didn't say "goodbye" instead of "good riddance". I sometimes say a prayer or hold a good thought or send a positive vibe to the people I loved and betrayed. I do that because I can.
I do truly love myself still. It's amazing. By the way - you guys are the best.
GT
Like most Exes I used Scientology to unravel myself from Scientology. I did the doubt formula, I used the Data Series, I word cleared and False data stripped and went earlier similar to whole track implants. I worked out how to apply "Personal Integrity" and the "Optimum Solution".
The funny thing is even using Scientology to evaluate Scientology it still doesn't amount to more than a cartoon philosophy wrapped in Lies and PR. It's smoke and mirrors. It would be funny if so many of us hadn't taken it so seriously. That's why Anonymous is so amazing to us. They call a spade a spade and a joke a joke. Scientology is lulzy as hell until people get hurt.
I'm not working on some amends project for the damage I caused. I'm not trying to balance out some karma. I'm not looking for sympathy or forgiveness. I'm just working through how I ever believed what I was doing was valuable enough to justify the damage. Hearing other points of view helps. I believed because I chose to. I believed because I needed to.
I don't anymore. I'm sorry that I didn't say "goodbye" instead of "good riddance". I sometimes say a prayer or hold a good thought or send a positive vibe to the people I loved and betrayed. I do that because I can.
I do truly love myself still. It's amazing. By the way - you guys are the best.
GT
lkwdblds
Crusader
Thanks for the kind words!!
Thank you so much for your kind words Free to Shine. I really appreciate your advice as well. I have been posting here since February and have read many stories. When I first got here, I still thought LRH could do no wrong, at least with Red on White tech. I already had figured out that Green and White did not work. I did not know that the seeds of evil and wrongdoing were planted in Church doctrine by LRH. I pretty much was a Free Zone type of guy and still wanted to pursue the tech outside of C of S. Now being here 8 months, my opinions have changed enormously but I am still learning.
Kind words from Good Twin and yourself count for far more with me than extremely negative remarks from a couple of others. I will take your advice and try and stand in the shoes of others so as to help duplicate their reactions.
Lkwdblds
Thank you so much for your kind words Free to Shine. I really appreciate your advice as well. I have been posting here since February and have read many stories. When I first got here, I still thought LRH could do no wrong, at least with Red on White tech. I already had figured out that Green and White did not work. I did not know that the seeds of evil and wrongdoing were planted in Church doctrine by LRH. I pretty much was a Free Zone type of guy and still wanted to pursue the tech outside of C of S. Now being here 8 months, my opinions have changed enormously but I am still learning.
Kind words from Good Twin and yourself count for far more with me than extremely negative remarks from a couple of others. I will take your advice and try and stand in the shoes of others so as to help duplicate their reactions.
Lkwdblds
lkwdblds
Crusader
What is an American?
Gadfly - By American I mean a citizen of the United States of America who will stand for the Pledge of Allegiance, salute the Flag, and serve in the armed forces to defend the country if called upon to do so. The values of the country are printed on our money. #1 E Pluribus Unum (Out of many, One,), #2 "In God we Trust" and #3 "Liberty". The benefits of citizenship are spelled out in the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights and the responsibilites are to obey the laws of the land, to pay taxes and to come to the defense of the country when needed. Being well informed on issues and casting votes in various elections, while not demanded, is one of the duties.
When contrasted with the citizenship of other countries such as Cuba and North Korea, the United States citizenship guarantees more freedoms and opportunity to succeed and have a happy life than those other two countries.
Since the United States damaged indigenous native Indians during its formative years and then legalized human slavery in its early decades, interned loyal Japenese citizens during WWII and recently engaged in a preemptive war to remove the government of Iraq, I raised the question whether or not U.S. citizens who pay taxes and/or serve in the country"s armed forces should do some serious soul searching as to whether they are responsible in part for the deaths, diseases, inslavement, internments, financial losses and losses of dignity caused by the U.S. Government to the peoples which it damaged.
There is some analogy between this situation and the situation facing ex-scientologists who carried out harmful acts against others, saw harmful acts being done and allowed them to continue without trying to stop them or just turned a blind eye to such harmful acts. I offered this analogy as a means to view from a different perspective the dilemma which many ex scientologists are currently facing as regards their behavior in Scientology when they were active. This analogy is not a perfect match but it has enough in common to being an ex-Scientologist to make its introduction onto this thread something of relevant interest.
Lkwdblds
Gadfly - By American I mean a citizen of the United States of America who will stand for the Pledge of Allegiance, salute the Flag, and serve in the armed forces to defend the country if called upon to do so. The values of the country are printed on our money. #1 E Pluribus Unum (Out of many, One,), #2 "In God we Trust" and #3 "Liberty". The benefits of citizenship are spelled out in the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights and the responsibilites are to obey the laws of the land, to pay taxes and to come to the defense of the country when needed. Being well informed on issues and casting votes in various elections, while not demanded, is one of the duties.
When contrasted with the citizenship of other countries such as Cuba and North Korea, the United States citizenship guarantees more freedoms and opportunity to succeed and have a happy life than those other two countries.
Since the United States damaged indigenous native Indians during its formative years and then legalized human slavery in its early decades, interned loyal Japenese citizens during WWII and recently engaged in a preemptive war to remove the government of Iraq, I raised the question whether or not U.S. citizens who pay taxes and/or serve in the country"s armed forces should do some serious soul searching as to whether they are responsible in part for the deaths, diseases, inslavement, internments, financial losses and losses of dignity caused by the U.S. Government to the peoples which it damaged.
There is some analogy between this situation and the situation facing ex-scientologists who carried out harmful acts against others, saw harmful acts being done and allowed them to continue without trying to stop them or just turned a blind eye to such harmful acts. I offered this analogy as a means to view from a different perspective the dilemma which many ex scientologists are currently facing as regards their behavior in Scientology when they were active. This analogy is not a perfect match but it has enough in common to being an ex-Scientologist to make its introduction onto this thread something of relevant interest.
Lkwdblds