What to believe about Scientology?

[C.D]

Really, what is one to honestly believe about Scientology?

I have done a few introductory courses in Scientology, found them to be interesting and beneficial, but now my next step would to make a first step on the bridge. I decided to do my own research on the internet, and was originally shocked. But with so many contrasting opinions, i don't know what to believe without spending the money and finding out for myself. So far the following arguments have been uncovered in months of lurking, reading ex members stories, media reports, pro-scientology blogs, etc.

-The Church is a corrupt money making scheme

-The church is good and works, but needs reform

-The Church is great and helps people very day

-LRH was crazy and a liar

-LRH was good but went off the deep end towards the end

-LRH was a story teller, but otherwise great

-LRH is almost always right

-The Scientology tech is a brainwashing scam

-The Scientology tech is great, works, but is being corrupted in CoS

-The Scientology tech is awesome, but only if delivered from the CoS

-David MisCavige is an abusive monster

-DM is humble, kind, etc.

-Scientology cured my asthma, head aches, etc.

-Scientology did nothing

-The OT levels blew me away and were the most amzing thing ever

-The OT levels are bs

-I Love the Church of Scientology

-I love the Freezone

-I think the entire thing is brainwashing bull shit.


I'm really sorry to be so excessive in my writing, but I tried to be smart and do the research, and yet I have found so many varied accounts and opinions, that I don't know what to believe without spending years of time and devotion to go up the brdige myself.

I'm not sure what to believe, other than my own experiences which are beneficial into courses, and pressure to by The Basics and join staff.

I'm not sure what the point of this post is either, other than to really express my frustration. Any responses would be beneficial nonetheless.

The End.

 

[Zinjifar]

There is one consistent 'truth' about Scientology; it's *always* worse than you think.

There is one consistent 'product' of Scientology; ex-Scientologists.

Everything else is quibbling about the small shit.

Zinj

 

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Ok. I'll sort that for you.. These are the correct items:

-The Church is a corrupt money making scheme
-LRH was crazy and a liar
-The Scientology tech is a brainwashing scam
-David MisCavige is an abusive monster
-Scientology did nothing
-The OT levels are bs
-The entire thing (Scn tech in any incarnation) is brainwashing bullshit.

Uh-oh! I won't claim to be a lofty authority who promiss you stuff.. CofS and Hubbard will do that in profusion... If you pay them! - And if you don't believe 'em, you're a despicable lowlife traitor and they'll make your mom hate you!

You are free to not believe me though.. I'll still talk to you! - Oh, I might think you're a dumbass.. But that's life.

 

[Good twin]

You came to the right place. We spent decades doing your research. We spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on the church's standard tech. You can do what we did. Or you can believe us. There may be good things in Scientology but a lot of it is crap. Be careful.

 

[Terril park]

The Freezone are a loosely related bunch of scientologists who like to
deliver auditing and training. They don't fair game or try to disconnect people.

We are considered " enemies" of COS. So beware.

 

[Zinjifar]

The Freezone are a loosely related bunch of scientologists who like to
deliver auditing and training. They don't fair game or try to disconnect people.

We are considered " enemies" of COS. So beware.

The FreeZonies are objectionable in inverse proportion to how 'Scientological' they are.

After all; we know what Ron said about 'squirrels'.

Zinj

 

[Feral]

CD, My wife and I spent 15 years on OTVII, that is not uncommon now. the whole journey into Scn cost us about $1.5 mil.

OT abilities?........ Can't think....

Wins? Yeah a few, and some good ones, enough to keep us going but never what is promised or implied. As Jason Beghe said, show me a mother f&%^ing clear.

 

[C.D]

Thanks for everyones response.

I guess I just don't get how some people can be Scientologists for 35 years and still love it and praise it to the skies

and some people can be in for 35 years, and not have a single good thing to say.

Perspectives, experiences, whatever.

I guess it seems to me that if they really were curing brain tumors with simple assists as I recently read, people would be lined up for miles at every org. Yet to the contrary their seems to be no shortage of ex-members and critics.


Feral, 15 years on OTVII? Geez. That does seem ridiculous.

 

[gomorrhan]

If you are actually going to go into the Church of Scientology after you have read the testimony of people who have worked there, grown up there, trained there, etc., you must have a deathwish, or at least of death of self wish.

The correct response to the Church of Scientology is Smeagol's response to Gollum in the Two Towers. "Leave now, and never come back".

 

[klidov]

As someone who have never been "in" $ci, and has gathered information and made up my own mind, I guess what I can offer you is this:

You have this wonderful mind. And you have free will (something the cult would deny you, both as individuals & as part of their policy).

Whatever decision you make, I, a stranger, will support you.

Make your decision(s) & choice(s) based on what your heart & mind tell you.

Brightest Blessings.....

Klidov

 

[tookmeawhile]

Really, what is one to honestly believe about Scientology?

I have done a few introductory courses in Scientology, found them to be interesting and beneficial, but now my next step would to make a first step on the bridge. I decided to do my own research on the internet, and was originally shocked. But with so many contrasting opinions, i don't know what to believe without spending the money and finding out for myself. So far the following arguments have been uncovered in months of lurking, reading ex members stories, media reports, pro-scientology blogs, etc.

-The Church is a corrupt money making scheme

-The church is good and works, but needs reform

-The Church is great and helps people very day

-LRH was crazy and a liar

-LRH was good but went off the deep end towards the end

-LRH was a story teller, but otherwise great

-LRH is almost always right

-The Scientology tech is a brainwashing scam

-The Scientology tech is great, works, but is being corrupted in CoS

-The Scientology tech is awesome, but only if delivered from the CoS

-David MisCavige is an abusive monster

-DM is humble, kind, etc.

-Scientology cured my asthma, head aches, etc.

-Scientology did nothing

-The OT levels blew me away and were the most amzing thing ever

-The OT levels are bs

-I Love the Church of Scientology

-I love the Freezone

-I think the entire thing is brainwashing bull shit.


I'm really sorry to be so excessive in my writing, but I tried to be smart and do the research, and yet I have found so many varied accounts and opinions, that I don't know what to believe without spending years of time and devotion to go up the brdige myself.

I'm not sure what to believe, other than my own experiences which are beneficial into courses, and pressure to by The Basics and join staff.

I'm not sure what the point of this post is either, other than to really express my frustration. Any responses would be beneficial nonetheless.

The End.

Hi C.D.,

You did some great research. Except for the one about DM is kind, humble, etc., every other one is true - to a greater or lesser degree.

 

[dchoiceisalwaysrs]

CD

You have choices here, you have freedom here.

Outside the co$ you can read and talk about anything, without being told by all that you are bad for doing so.

You gave a great list of things that you read and thought about.

Can you openly do that in the Co$?

Print out your list, and take it to 20 wogs, and discuss it with them.

You have posted your list here, and will get atleast 20 responses.

Then if you dare, take the list and talk to 20 executives in the Co$.

Then compare what happened.

In which of these situations will you be permitted to think and act for yourself.

In which of these situations will you be encouraged to look and think for yourself?

Do you want to be owned by the Co$ or own your own life?

OUT you have a choice, IN the most of the choices have been made regardless of your input. In fact most of the input is chosen for you

You have an inquiring mind...keep it free from domination and the control of others..

 

[Rmack]

$cientology is, and was designed to be, a trap.

Every trap needs cheese. The things that "work" in $ are the cheese. However, even the benefits are overblown, exaggerated, hyped up, to the point of bullshit, and in almost every case could be attained elsewhere for far less money or personal enslavement.

The feel-good aspect of $ is a result of the huge, intensely focused group mind generated by the group, IMO. It was always fun and uplifting to be around lots of smart, sober, happy, enthusiastic people, but $ isn't the only place that you can experience that. It is probably the most expensive, though, in either money, time, or both.

You have to realize that the people who rave about $ are in a trap. They HAVE to say great things about it and Blubbard or THEY are psychotic evil beings bent on the destruction of everything good, according to very clear, unambiguous $ dogma.

Not to mention the fact that they would have to confront the fact that they have been duped, and have wasted their money on, as one book puts it "a piece of blue sky".

 

[KnightVision]

Perspectives, experiences, whatever....

Thanks for everyones response.

I guess I just don't get how some people can be Scientologists for 35 years and still love it and praise it to the skies

and some people can be in for 35 years, and not have a single good thing to say.

Perspectives, experiences, whatever.

Hi CD,

Thats a good question; because of the 180 degree difference between the two. There are a few common sense reasons why that is so...

A current Scientologist will never tell you about any doubts, frustrations or fears he has concerning Scientology; every scientologist is trained and indoctrinated to believe that saying anything negative about it IS A CRIME that is punishable by the ethics procedures. Even just having a bad thought about it is not allowed- any such thought (as well as telling someone about it) can be discovered by checking the person using a e-meter (as a lie detector) and these checks are run on all Scientologists on a regular basis. I was "caught" many times having such thoughts and I suspect most Scientologists were. During the "handling", members are made to locate the "Suppressive Person" that they are in contact with and who is the "real" cause of their bad thoughts (finding fault with Scientology is never allowed as an acceptable reason). This is not the only way they enforce this policy; just one of many. The Scientology "tech" for controlling and dominating members without their consent is likely one of the most effective in the world.

However, the human will is very powerful and coupled with the inability of the "Tech" to deliver what's promised, charging ever increasing sums of money to chase after those elusive "super powers" and a healthy dose of bad application by the staff....

Eventually 99 percent of all Scientologists get fed up and begin to see though the lies they are told and taught. Once that happens a landslide of all the blocked out doubts and negative thoughts that they were trained/controlled to suppress pour out and they walk out the door, not to return.

That won't be the end of the members difficulties by any means. The staff will hound the member for some time, never accepting that the person has a legitimate reason for leaving- NEVER.

Additionally it may take years for the ex member to feel confident enough to begin researching his experiences in Scn. (mostly via the internet) or getting in touch with a professional help. Again he will go through major emotional swings as he begins to put the pieces together and realize exactly how he was morally and financially defrauded.

So imaging now that you went through that type of experience and successfully restarted a new life... what would you have to say "good" about it?

There is an article (which is long) but it covers every major fraudulent and criminal aspect about Scientology. If you want to settle any "doubts" you have concerning Scn. I suggest you read it. Only you can decide for yourself. Read the article, then go check out the Scn. sites. And decide for yourself.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/scientology/history/history14.html

Peace

 

[Flag-2005]

Now it does not matter. Because you have been online and done the research you will probably be not allowed to continue in the Church.

That is a good thing and so you have positioned yourself with a defense against them. When they call you just discuss what you have read online. They will soon leave you alone as now they fear you.

If you want to find out about the technology you will need to read a lot and have an open mind as a lot is wild stuff.

Good luck with whatever you find out or decide.

 

[Thrak]

There is one consistent 'truth' about Scientology; it's *always* worse than you think.

There is one consistent 'product' of Scientology; ex-Scientologists.

Everything else is quibbling about the small shit.

Zinj

I'll have to agree with Zinj. ALthough I still have some agreement with various points here and there from CofS, the STINCH is so bad that to me it makes anything positive practically irrelevant. Right now CofS is an insane asylum. STAY AWAY! Maybe somebody some day will pick up the pieces and find what if anything is worth keeping but now it's not a place I would advise hanging around. Trust me I learned the hard way.

 

[Aliceinwonderland]

Really, what is one to honestly believe about Scientology?


-The Church is a corrupt money making scheme

-The church is good and works, but needs reform

-The Church is great and helps people very day

-LRH was crazy and a liar

-LRH was good but went off the deep end towards the end

-LRH was a story teller, but otherwise great

-LRH is almost always right

-The Scientology tech is a brainwashing scam

-The Scientology tech is great, works, but is being corrupted in CoS

-The Scientology tech is awesome, but only if delivered from the CoS

-David MisCavige is an abusive monster

-DM is humble, kind, etc.

-Scientology cured my asthma, head aches, etc.

-Scientology did nothing

-The OT levels blew me away and were the most amzing thing ever

-The OT levels are bs

-I Love the Church of Scientology

-I love the Freezone

-I think the entire thing is brainwashing bull shit.

snipped..........
The End.

There is a difference between the "tech" and the PR and hype. The tech is as good as you can understand and then apply it to your life and to others as well. The PR and most of the hype is not necessary outside of the church. The proof is in how well you do with using the theories and processes.

Scn has undergone a lot of different dramatic changes through the years. You see the results of those sudden and sometimes shocking changes through the communications of different people here. Some have watched as their friends or relatives seemed to go "nuts" and have decided that Scn was a bad bad cult. Others, well, its literally saved their lives. You can get such an extreme regarding people involved with Scn.

The "founder" himself was full of contradictions, polarities, changes, hidden identities and then the ones that most people saw and so as it is above, so it became below. Not with everyone, but you could see it being dramatized down the lines.

Now in your own current "time" of how Scn is right now, there will be parts and pieces that will probably help you. But, the church "is" strict about certain things and hanging out with X-Scnners is not validated, to say the least. They would want you to totally disconnect.

So, now that you are on this board - you have a choice. You can ask around to see if anyone knows people who can help you on the bridge and you can probably do it a whole lot cheaper and you can find out who has a large library of LRH stuff you could buy. Also, you could, for a good starter,
just go to the Clearbird site online and find a partner to twin with. You can then ask any questions back here on this board and I'm sure several people would be more than glad to discuss things with you. OR, you could go to the church itself and while things are all nicely packaged there, you would have to keep a schedule and you would always be "regged" for your next step and your next step and so forth. Although, the church "does" have a few courses you can take online now - so that's an option as well.

I personally would never begrudge someone who wanted to join the CofS, but I personally would never go back. Have the experiences you wanna have.

L

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

There are really only two things you need to see to know it's horse crap.

1. Can you buy Salvation? If it's true salvation why would a group make you pay money for it if they truely wanted to help you?

2. Look how many exes there are. As Zinj said.




Scientologies basic courses can help people but that's just it. At that point, you now think all of Scientology can help you and you are stuck and can't get back very easily.

Don't get suckered into thinking you can buy salvation.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Good points, but can I add this?

3 / Talk to a few people who have completed OT VIII (which is the highest level currently offered by the Church) and see if they're "saved."

 

[uncle sam]

Hey CD

Advice from an OT 7 Class 6-Run fast, run far and don't look back cause the bts will get you and eat you up!