"You have zero effect"

[Charlotte Smith]

Here:

https://exscn.net/forum/threads/board-rules.2/

Can I only ask if you are a never in or an ex-scientologist ?

Thanks!

I took a course and those people and their beliefs and methods freaked me out. I took one course.

 

[Emma]

And....

What's your point ?????

Emma,
Don't even count on me to even reply in justifying my posts. These are my observation and I stand tall to it wether it is liked or not no matter who and will keep sharing it.
When you find I don't respect rules..call
me.

In the event the opposite would be the truth, and you ( and Alanzo) would be feared of my posts, just tell openly if you wish I leave the board...

I’m not asking you to justify anything. It was an observation only. A high percentage of your posts are devoted to talking about something or someone who you wish wasn’t here and who you say you have on ignore. It seems counterproductive to me.

I'm not scared of your posts lotus, just pointing out the obvious.

 

[lotus]

I’m not asking you to justify anything. It was an observation only. A high percentage of your posts are devoted to talking about something or someone who you wish wasn’t here and who you say you have on ignore. It seems counterproductive to me.

I'm not scared of your posts lotus, just pointing out the obvious.

Emma,

I am not auditing you

Where did you take I wish Alanzo was not here??
Mind reading???

And please point to me any post where it is obvious.
Actually you read the opposite on the board.

What is counterproductive??? ( for whom???)
That I address the real present time concerns of people?? that includes his behavior and non-issues as he makes himself the ESMB flavour of the months.

Tell me honestly, did Alanzo complained about me back channel??? About others like HH, Veda...???

I appreciate though, you and I can have real discussions ..and whatever I will always remain grateful for that you made this board a available and that you certainly allow that it made a huge difference in many people's recovering, and that I have been given a comfortable chair.

But I will keep going on as I wish re Alanzo and his pseudo-issues no matter if you dislike it or not.



Edit:

What I am really doing Emma, is obvious to many others and should be to you!

 

[Emma]

What is counterproductive??? ( for whom???)

For you!

It seems that he's really bothering you so you have him on ignore but then you read and comment on those who have answered him and then you comment more, and it gives you no relief.

 

[lotus]

It "seems" to you Emma, as you said..

But tell me Emma,
Why are you suddenly ( since yesterday) so concerned about my posts , but more specifically those about Alanzo's ???

You don"t seem to be such concerned about those also commenting Alanzo they put on ignore??

Tell me why Emma?
Did he complained to you back channel??? Please answer.

What makes you think that I should have " relief"
Are you insinuating I made poor Alanzo my victim..like being on a crusade ???

 

[Emma]

Tell me why Emma?
Did he complained to you back channel??? Please answer.

What makes you think that I should have " relief"
Are you insinusting I made poor Alanzo my victim..like being on a crusade ???

No one has complained about you to me, backchannel or frontchannel (whatever that is). I don't need other people to give me my opinions. I can & do have my own.

You seem as though you need relief from the pearl grasping. It looks like you've gone into a real tizzy about it. If not, carry on.

 

[lotus]

No one has complained about you to me, backchannel or frontchannel (whatever that is). I don't need other people to give me my opinions. I can & do have my own.

You seem as though you need relief from the pearl grasping. It looks like you've gone into a real tizzy about it. If not, carry on.

Good for the answer!

As you say "I seem" to you Emma
One usually get real quickly my true motives that are very obvious here..like others ESMBers

Tizzy?? Don't know the definition but does it mean like Alanzo and you Emma vs Mike Rinder hunt???

Tell your crimes
Go on Karen's blog and ask
Why Mike Rinder does"t apologize
On an on for weeks!
(Mike Rinder not here to answer)

Good luck for house transaction though!

 

[Emma]

Don't know the definition but does it mean like Alanzo and you Emma vs Mike Rinder hunt???

Emma Vs Mike. I don't think so. Point me to where I have said anything derogatory about Mike Rinder.

Tell your crimes
Go on Karen's blog and ask
Why Mike Rinder does"t apologize

It's not unreasonable to ask if there are crimes that can be told, especially if a person has immunity.
The question put to ask on Karen's FB group was not an unreasonable question, but only if the group was open to such a question. It isn't and it wasn't asked. The point was made that you can't ask uncomfortable questions in that group.
I've never said Mike Rinder hasn't apologised. You might not have noticed that I've stuck up for Mike Rinder numerous times. However I don't agree that questions shouldn't be asked of anyone from Int Management.

Good luck for house transaction though!

Thanks.

 

[lotus]

I prefer we leave it there Emma
Too much things may impede a correct understanding..on internet we are often into interpretations.

Yes I never read that you said something derogatory about Mike. We only have a very different view of the process and motive ( I am thinking about Alanzo here)

Altough I enjoy we can speak to each other honestly and even disagree.

You voiced your concerned about me and I listened to them. What you think belongs to you, as well as what you do. At the end of the day it's what Emma thinks of Emma and what Lotus thinks of Lotus. Ain't it???

Thanks for the chat!

 

[freethinker]

What are the rules on making threads?

The member rules in the top section on being a member. The other half is how to do it.

 

[lotus]

I took a course and those people and their beliefs and methods freaked me out. I took one course.

Thank you!
Great, you got it!
Those courses are baits to entrap people in the expensive UFO space opera lunacy.

You make me recall when I first took a comm course and found those on staff look weirdos..with their clipboards and no blinking freaking frozen smiling face and their "okay" "well done" acknowledgements. Lol

But those people on staff are usually very good devoted people..it's just that they refuse to get informed that they are doing slave work for a scam.

I've been in for a decade, long ago, while some folks here,had been in for 2-3 decades; at at that time there was no internet neither documentaries exposing the cult.

 

[He-man]

Good point!

My point was not to tell people what to do...but more a misunderstanding why people reply to people who post annoying stuff.

What I don't like is not that he posts and people replies to him..it's the amount of place he has taken and what the lurkers find now to read when they lurk..it's all about him.

I don't think it makes a secure environment for newly out to land here...according to the focus put on proeminent critics pseudo-crimes and "lies"..people out there must be confused...

Nice job!
Osa shall have orgasms
we look like a smearing board of people who expose Scientology.

It's my opinion.

I really don't buy into the idea that "someone is taking too much space", competing with other topics. Nor do I believe that lurkers are a form of retarded sub-species on the interwebs that requires a secure environment to land in. Recent studies found that they can actually form an opinion of their own on several topics across the board and inhabits most environments whether they are safe or not.

 

[Emma]

Nor do I believe that lurkes are a form of retarded sub-species on the interwebs

Me either.

 

[Free Being Me]

I really don't buy into the idea that "someone is taking too much space", competing with other topics. Nor do I believe that lurkers are a form of retarded sub-species on the interwebs that requires a secure environment to land in. Recent studies found that they can actually form an opinion of their own on several topics across the board and inhabits most environments whether they are safe or not.

I don't recall anyone stating that (can you provide quotes?) so I'm going to call that a strawman argument.

If I was searching the web for a place to land trying to get my bearings on what I joined ($cientology) in the past now looking for answers what current impression of ESMB would a person have?

Keep in mind people are questioning $cientology (onion peeling) at different rates and speeds individually. Having any "doubt" about hubbard/miscavige/$cientology is in itself contrary to $cientology indoctrination.

Do you remember what it was like (for you) the first time you came here looking around? Speaking for myself I was nervous as hell. It took me 3 months working up the nerve to make an account and I was even more nervous with my first post.

When people speak of newbies and lurkers it's with empathy since we all at some point were in their shoes trying to make sense of what happened with the added layer of reading or posting on a public message board for the first time. That takes courage when you are contending with hubbard-think at the same time.

Speaking for myself I do care about people trying to find their way out of $cientology and I care about them finding coherence and insight to begin onion peeling their way out of $cientology. And I also care about the people who have friends and family in $cientology that come here looking for help and at times ask for guidance so they can get them out.

With all that said what would you think of the wild wild west guns blazing at Ex's/critics/whistle blowers crusade waged here as a newbie/lurker?

 

[He-man]

I don't recall anyone stating that (can you provide quotes?) so I'm going to call that a strawman argument.

If I was searching the web for a place to land trying to get my bearings on what I joined ($cientology) in the past now looking for answers what current impression of ESMB would a person have?

Keep in mind people are questioning $cientology (onion peeling) at different rates and speeds individually. Having any "doubt" about hubbard/miscavige/$cientology is in itself contrary to $cientology indoctrination.

Do you remember what it was like (for you) the first time you came here looking around? Speaking for myself I was nervous as hell. It took me 3 months working up the nerve to make an account and and I was even more more nervous with my first post.

When people speak of newbies and lurkers it's with empathy since we all at some point were in their shoes trying to make sense of what happened with the added layer of posting on a public message board. That takes courage when you are contending with hubbard-think at the same time.

Speaking for myself I do care about people trying to find their way out of $cientology and I care about them finding coherence and insight to begin onion peeling their way out of $cientology. And I also care about the people who have friends and family in $cientology that come here looking for help and at times ask for guidance so they can get them out.

With all that said what would you think of the wild wild west guns blazing at Ex's/critics/whistle blowers crusade waged here as a newbie/lurker?

From Lotus post #14 that I replied to.

What I don't like is not that he posts and people replies to him..it's the amount of place he has taken and what the lurkers find now to read when they lurk..it's all about him.

From Lotus #16 I can reference this for you:

...my concern is the people out there who lurk, may need a safe place to land and tell their story as we almost appear as an OSA site..

It's been stated by others as well but those are the ones I can easily find.

In regards to your question on my thoughts at the time, as I remember them now: Post
To add to that, yes I was terrified(and excited at the same time) to read what ye guys where all about. Absolutely. The waves of drama didn't discourage me at all. If anything it fascinated me that people were being assertive, didn't budge at what they felt was important. To see people being able to disagree and still respect each other, that was a new world to me. Completely different from the way people were "communicating" in the church, for instance.

Remember Paul and that Anon guy that were friends with AGP? Can't remember his name now, the thread about the e-meter in the water and all that? You think those threads scares people off? Or when pro techies were being ridiculed with the ensuing drama? Maybe. I disagree though.

What I would want, is that even if people disagree, that we treat each others with respect and common indecency. I hope we can at least agree to that if we did that, we would all look nicer. That's hardly how things are looking at the moment. Is that purely Alanzos fault though? Not really. He is as disrespectful as others are, and have been.

I wanted to find a picture with two women mud-wrestling, but I couldn't find any good ones. So here it goes without a decent ending. I am very sorry about that and I do apologize for the lack of pictures to awaken the idea I have in my mind of all parties in this epic saga actually being covered knee deep in mud.

 

[Alanzo]

@FreeBeingMe said:

Speaking for myself I do care about people trying to find their way out of $cientology and I care about them finding coherence and insight to begin onion peeling their way out of $cientology. And I also care about the people who have friends and family in $cientology that come here looking for help and at times ask for guidance so they can get them out.
With all that said what would you think of the wild wild west guns blazing at Ex's/critics/whistle blowers crusade waged here as a newbie/lurker?

Speaking for myself, I care about people who are newly out of Scientology too.

You say that you care about them finding "coherence and insight to begin onion peeling their way out of $cientology."

I used to believe as you do about Scientology being a "brainwashing cult". But since then I've read dozens scientific studies and dozens of court cases which have thoroughly debunked the idea of "brainwashing cults".

And I have come to realize that when an Ex adopts the idea that he was "brainwashed" in Scientology and he uses that re-interpret his experiences in Scientology, and who he was as a Scientologist - it does him damage. It sets him back years in his cultural readjustment back into the mainstream.

I have written a very detailed post about the ways that adopting the anticult movement belief system is harmful to Ex Members.

So, from my viewpoint, your call for coherence is a call for uniformity of belief, for a kind of '100% standard' anticult movement belief system to be displayed here with no squirreling.

I believe that newbies coming onto ESMB need MANY different beliefs, not another "uniformity of belief - conformity of thought" environment. They need to see LOTS of ideas and a vigorous, informed, & intelligent discussion of all these points of view.

Newbies to ESMB should be able to pick from your ideas, my ideas, He-man's ideas and Veda's ideas. Everyone's ideas.

I believe THAT is an environment that is best for a person coming out of a 'cult' environment and I believe that is the environment that is best for newbies on ESMB.

Can you tell me why I am wrong about this?

 

[Free Being Me]

From Lotus post #14 that I replied to.

From Lotus #16 I can reference this for you:

It's been stated by others as well but those are the ones I can easily find.

In regards to your question on my thoughts at the time, as I remember them now: Post
To add to that, yes I was terrified(and excited at the same time) to read what ye guys where all about. Absolutely. The waves of drama didn't discourage me at all. If anything it fascinated me that people were being assertive, didn't budge at what they felt was important. To see people being able to disagree and still respect each other, that was a new world to me. Completely different from the way people were "communicating" in the church, for instance.

Remember Paul and that Anon guy that were friends with AGP? Can't remember his name now, the thread about the e-meter in the water and all that? You think those threads scares people off? Or when pro techies were being ridiculed with the ensuing drama? Maybe. I disagree though.

What I would want, is that even if people disagree, that we treat each others with respect and common indecency. I hope we can at least agree to that if we did that, we would all look nicer. That's hardly how things are looking at the moment. Is that purely Alanzos fault though? Not really. He is as disrespectful as others are, and have been.

I wanted to find a picture with two women mud-wrestling, but I couldn't find any good ones. So here it goes without a decent ending. I am very sorry about that and I do apologize for the lack of pictures to awaken the idea I have in my mind of all parties in this epic saga actually being covered knee deep in mud.

Thanks for the Lotus quotes but they didn't state:

Nor do I believe that lurkers are a form of retarded sub-species on the interwebs >snip<

Hence that's a strawman.due to she didn't say that. Lotus was expressing a concern for newbies-new lurkers.

I fully understand being terrified, I was feeling the same way. Yes, the discussions themselves as a newbie were a lot to take in so I agree with you there.

I'm not following you regarding Alanzo or why you'd defend him. He's done nothing but be intentionally disrespectful since he re-arrived. His "I'm being critical" and "just asking questions" contrived guise to rip into people (and tell them what to think and feel) is just plain horse excrement.

Does anyone find that conducive to conversation? I don't so lets please move on.

 

[He-man]

Thanks for the Lotus quotes but they didn't state:

Hence that's a strawman.due to she didn't say that. Lotus was expressing a concern for newbies-new lurkers.

I fully understand being terrified, I was feeling the same way. Yes, the discussions themselves as a newbie were a lot to take in so I agree with you there.

I'm not following you regarding Alanzo or why you'd defend him. He's done nothing but be intentionally disrespectful since he re-arrived. His "I'm being critical" and "just asking questions" contrived guise to rip into people (and tell them what to think and feel) is just plain horse excrement.

Does anyone find that conducive to conversation? I don't so lets please move on.

It is not a straw man. Lotus is holding the position that lurkers needs to be protected from... us, our discourse? More so, they need a safe place to land. For me that is a very condescending view towards whoever would read this. I am merely ridiculing hers and others position, not trying to misrepresent her. If you can not see that this has happened as a way to criticize Alanzo then I suggest you do a search on it.

Ok, I am not defending Alanzo. I think he has a lot to answer for with how he has handled himself since he came back.

I am simply pointing out that he has a god damn right to be here, and whilst participating, should be treated with the same respect as you would want yourself. The golden rule. I've explained my reasoning on this already.

No. I don't think Alanzo holds to that either.

Why is it so hard to grasp the concept of a forum?

When have people here ever not held extremely different positions? Sometimes even more polarized then they are now?

Here's one classy example, I was trying to find another thread but I found this nugget instead, it's an old drama over the perceived Freezone stalking. the reason I post it is because it holds a special spot in my heart. That post is one of the major reasons why I never ended up in the Freezone or anything like it. I realized that rather then just leaving Scientology and still believing in the "tech", I was gonna kick the habit completely.

You think drama is bad? I don't. I remember this as the "Freezone which hunt", this and other threads such as this one.

https://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/esmb-and-the-freezone-lets-have-it-out.6350/

I do wish that the civil tone would come back though, but I think 2008 was an entirely different era, where a lot of posters felt that there was more value in the written word, in comparison to how it is today.

God I wish Nexus was back.

Edit: Oooh I found another golden one, started by Alanzo even. https://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/trolling-for-business-on-esmb.9682/

 

[Alanzo]

. . .
The name Alanzo has its root in Old German and
its meaning is "ready for battle." Associated with
battle or war. Ironic but not surprising.

You are exactly right, IL2L.

When I began posting to the Internet as a critic of Scientology in 1999, and began realizing that Scientology would come after me, and all those PTS/SP materials I'd studied as a Scientologist would be applied to ME now, I was terrified.

I also knew that I had a duty to ensure that what I knew, and what others knew, got exposed on this new thing at the time - the Internet.

I had other names before this, "Poopsy Charmicael" and others. But now I was dedicating my self to this fight. And for this fight, I was working out what my name should be.

"Allen" is my real name and all my life everyone was constantly squirreling it as "Alan".

When I was 8, it was 1968 - the middle of the civil rights movement. My parents were living in Central Illinois, the Land of Abraham Lincoln. And they were newly migrated Southerners from Alabama and Tennessee. I did not know it at the time, because my mother never spoke about it while she was alive, but her side of the family owned slaves. Martin Luther King, who was all over the TV in my living room, was a hero of mine - even as an 8 year old.

Then they assassinated him on the TV in my living room. At 8, I thought they assassinated him in my living room.

Amidst all this racial chaos in my home, my older sister was dating a black guy. She'd meet regularly with him out back in the alley behind our house. That's where I met him. It was the most rebellious thing I had ever seen done. His name was Alonzo.

So this was all forming in my mind in 1999, as I paced my floor in LA - knowing I was in for a fight with Marty Mike and Dave. When I looked up the derivation of the name "Alanzo", as you have done, and saw it was a name that meant "ready for battle", I knew that I must become "Alanzo".

And that is me - to this day.

Alanzo

 

[Veda]

@FreeBeingMe said:


Speaking for myself, I care about people who are newly out of Scientology too.

You say that you care about them finding "coherence and insight to begin onion peeling their way out of $cientology."

I used to believe as you do about Scientology being a "brainwashing cult". But since then I've read dozens scientific studies and dozens of court cases which have thoroughly debunked the idea of "brainwashing cults".

And I have come to realize that when an Ex adopts the idea that he was "brainwashed" in Scientology and he uses that re-interpret his experiences in Scientology, and who he was as a Scientologist - it does him damage. It sets him back years in his cultural readjustment back into the mainstream.

I have written a very detailed post about the ways that adopting the anticult movement belief system is harmful to Ex Members.

So, from my viewpoint, your call for coherence is a call for uniformity of belief, for a kind of '100% standard' anticult movement belief system to be displayed here with no squirreling.

I believe that newbies coming onto ESMB need MANY different beliefs, not another "uniformity of belief - conformity of thought" environment. They need to see LOTS of ideas and a vigorous, informed, & intelligent discussion of all these points of view.

Newbies to ESMB should be able to pick from your ideas, my ideas, He-man's ideas and Veda's ideas. Everyone's ideas.

I believe THAT is an environment that is best for a person coming out of a 'cult' environment and I believe that is the environment that is best for newbies on ESMB.

Can you tell me why I am wrong about this?

"Cult" and "brainwashing." Those are the two biggies that bugged Hubbard and now bug Miscavige.