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"You have zero effect"

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
....and old codgers
Of course
My dear

stylish-old-lady.jpg
 
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Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
<snip>
What's important is that you use scientifically validated and objectively-based ideas and concepts to understand your experience in a "cult", rather than manipulative bullshit.

Wouldn't you agree?
The Scientology Cult does not allow sufficient access for it to be studied utilizing the scientific method.
How can the scientific method be applied when observation, a key component of the scientific method is not permitted?

Claiming that the study of other organizations will greatly increase the understanding of the Church of Scientology from a scientific perspective sounds like a pseudo-scientific idea to me.

Yes, Scientology does have certain things in common with certain other organizations, but dogs have many things in common with wolves. But scientists don't assume too much about wolves when studying dogs. They may formulate a hypothesis based on their observation of dogs, but cannot determine anything conclusively until they get to study wolves.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Which are irrelevant to reality, and to the interests of newbies

It's important to stay out of pseudo-scientific bullshit, whether Hubbard and Miscavige might approve or not.

Their opinions on how you should pursue the truth, and to conclude, are completely irrelevant.

What's important is that you use scientifically validated and objectively-based ideas and concepts to understand your experience in a "cult", rather than manipulative bullshit.

Wouldn't you agree?
"Which are irrelevant to reality". I like that. Can I use that? It's sort of like using a politically correct verbal Poop Button on Veda.

I do agree it is important to stay out of pseudo-scientific bullshit. And to that point I really liked this blogger's take on the 2019 American Psychiatric Association meeting. We are so far beyond "Science" anymore. Anyone can pick their so called expert or scientific source of choice to push their own version of wokeness these days.

Imagine someone giving a seminar at this convention, "Understanding Scientology with Psychiatry in the Age of Wokeness".

https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/05/22/the-apa-meeting-a-photo-essay/

(snip)

There’s a popular narrative that drug companies have stolen the soul of psychiatry. That they’ve reduced everything to chemical imbalances. The people who talk about this usually go on to argue that the true causes of mental illness are capitalism and racism. Have doctors forgotten that the real solution isn’t a pill, but structural change that challenges the systems of exploitation and domination that create suffering in the first place?
No. Nobody has forgotten that. Because the third thing you notice at the American Psychiatric Association meeting is that everyone is very, very woke.
Here are some of the most relevant presentations listed in my Guidebook:

Saturday, May 18
Climate Psychiatry 101: What Every Psychiatrist Should Know
Women's Health In The US: Disruption And Exclusion In The Time Of Trump
Gender Bias In Academic Psychiatry In The Era Of the #MeToo Movement
Revitalizing Psychiatry – And Our World – With A Social Lens
Hip-Hop: Cultural Touchstone, Social Commentary, Therapeutic Expression, And Poetic Intervention
Lost Boys Of Sudan: Immigration As An Escape Route For Survival
Treating Muslim Patients After The Travel Ban: Best Practices In Using The APA Muslim Mental Health Toolkit
Making The Invisible Visible: Using Art To Explore Bias And Hierarchy In Medicine
Navigating Racism: Addressing The Pervasive Role Of Racial Bias In Mental Health
.
Sunday, May 20
Addressing Microaggressions Toward Sexual And Gender Minorities: Caring For LGBTQ+ Patients And Providers
Latino Undocumented Children And Families: Crisis At The Border And Beyond
Racism And Psychiatry: Growing A Diverse Psychiatric Workforce And Developing Structurally Competent Psychiatric Providers
Sex, Drugs, And Culturally Responsive Treatment: Addressing Substance Use Disorders In The Context Of Sexual And Gender Diversity
Grabbing The Third Rail: Race And Racism In Clinical Documentation
Racism And The War On Terror: Implications For Mental Health Providers In The United States
The Multiple Faces Of Deportation: Being A Solution To The Challenges Faced By Asylum Seekers, Mixed Status Families, And Dreamers
What Should The APA Do About Climate Change?
Intersectionality 2.0: How The Film Moonlight Can Teach Us About Inclusion And Therapeutic Alliance In Minority LGBTQ Populations
Transgender Care: How Psychiatrists Can Decrease Barriers And Provide Gender-Affirming Care
Gun Violence Is A Serious Public Health Problem Among America's Adolescents And Emerging Adults: What Should Psychiatrists Know And Do About It?
Working Clinically With Eco-Anxiety In The Age Of Climate Change: What Do We Know And What Can We Do?
Are There Structural Determinants Of African-American Child Mental Health? Child Welfare – A System Psychiatrists Should Scrutinize
.
Monday, May 21
Community Activism Narratives In Organized Medicine: Homosexuality, Mental Health, Social Justice, and the American Psychiatric Association
Disrupting The Status Quo: Addressing Racism In Medical Education And Residency Training
Ecological Grief, Eco-Anxiety, And Transformational Resilience: A Public health Perspective On Addressing Mental Health Impacts Of Climate Change
Immigration Status As A Social Determinant Of Mental Health: What Can Psychiatrists Do To Support Patients And Communities? A Call To Action
Psychiatry In The City Of Quartz: Notes On The Clinical Ethnography Of Severe Mental Illness And Social Inequality
Racism And Psychiatry: Understanding Context And Developing Policies For Undoing Structural Racism
Trauma Inflicted To Immigrant Children And Parents Through Policy Of Forced Family Separation
Deportation And Detention: Addressing The Psychosocial Impact On Migrant Children And Families
How Private Insurance Fails Those With Mental Illness: The Case For Single-Payer Health Care
Imams In Mental Health: Caring For Themselves While Caring For Others
Misogynist Ideology And Involuntary Celibacy: Prescription For Violence?
Advocacy: A Hallmark Of Psychiatrists Serving Minorities
Inequity By Structural Design: Psychiatrists' Responsibility To Be Informed Advocates For Systemic Education And Criminal Justice Reform
Treating Black Children And Families: What Are We Overlooking?
Blindspotting: An Exploration Of Implicit Bias, Race-Based Trauma, And Empathy
But I'm Not Racist: Racism, Implicit Bias, And The Practice Of Psychiatry
No Blacks, Fats, or Femmes: Stereotyping In The Gay Community And Issues Of Racism, Body Image, And Masculinity
Silence Is Not Always Golden: Interrupting Offensive Remarks And Microaggressions
Black Minds Matter: The Impact Of #BlackLivesMatter On Psychiatry
…you get the idea, please don’t make me keep writing these.
Were there really more than twice as many sessions on global warming as on obsessive compulsive disorder? Three times as many on immigration as on ADHD? As best I can count, yes. I don’t want to exaggerate this. There was still a lot of really meaty scientific discussion if you sought it out. But overall the balance was pretty striking.
I’m reminded of the idea of woke capital, the weird alliance between very rich businesses and progressive signaling. If you want to model the APA, you could do worse than a giant firehose that takes in pharmaceutical company money at one end, and shoots lectures about social justice out the other.

The fourth thing you notice at the American Psychiatric Association meeting is the Scientologists protesting outside.

(snip)

apa6.jpg
 
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Veda

Sponsor
"Which are irrelevant to reality". I like that. Can I use that? It's sort of like using a politically correct verbal Poop Button on Veda.

I do agree it is important to stay out of pseudo-scientific bullshit. And to that point I really liked this blogger's take on the 2019 American Psychiatric Association meeting. We are so far beyond "Science" anymore. Anyone can pick their so called expert or scientific source of choice to push their own version of wokeness these days.

Imagine someone giving a seminar at this convention, "Understanding Scientology with Psychiatry in the Age of Wokeness".

https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/05/22/the-apa-meeting-a-photo-essay/

(snip)

There’s a popular narrative that drug companies have stolen the soul of psychiatry. That they’ve reduced everything to chemical imbalances. The people who talk about this usually go on to argue that the true causes of mental illness are capitalism and racism. Have doctors forgotten that the real solution isn’t a pill, but structural change that challenges the systems of exploitation and domination that create suffering in the first place?
No. Nobody has forgotten that. Because the third thing you notice at the American Psychiatric Association meeting is that everyone is very, very woke.
Here are some of the most relevant presentations listed in my Guidebook:

Saturday, May 18
Climate Psychiatry 101: What Every Psychiatrist Should Know
Women's Health In The US: Disruption And Exclusion In The Time Of Trump
Gender Bias In Academic Psychiatry In The Era Of the #MeToo Movement
Revitalizing Psychiatry – And Our World – With A Social Lens
Hip-Hop: Cultural Touchstone, Social Commentary, Therapeutic Expression, And Poetic Intervention
Lost Boys Of Sudan: Immigration As An Escape Route For Survival
Treating Muslim Patients After The Travel Ban: Best Practices In Using The APA Muslim Mental Health Toolkit
Making The Invisible Visible: Using Art To Explore Bias And Hierarchy In Medicine
Navigating Racism: Addressing The Pervasive Role Of Racial Bias In Mental Health
.
Sunday, May 20
Addressing Microaggressions Toward Sexual And Gender Minorities: Caring For LGBTQ+ Patients And Providers
Latino Undocumented Children And Families: Crisis At The Border And Beyond
Racism And Psychiatry: Growing A Diverse Psychiatric Workforce And Developing Structurally Competent Psychiatric Providers
Sex, Drugs, And Culturally Responsive Treatment: Addressing Substance Use Disorders In The Context Of Sexual And Gender Diversity
Grabbing The Third Rail: Race And Racism In Clinical Documentation
Racism And The War On Terror: Implications For Mental Health Providers In The United States
The Multiple Faces Of Deportation: Being A Solution To The Challenges Faced By Asylum Seekers, Mixed Status Families, And Dreamers
What Should The APA Do About Climate Change?
Intersectionality 2.0: How The Film Moonlight Can Teach Us About Inclusion And Therapeutic Alliance In Minority LGBTQ Populations
Transgender Care: How Psychiatrists Can Decrease Barriers And Provide Gender-Affirming Care
Gun Violence Is A Serious Public Health Problem Among America's Adolescents And Emerging Adults: What Should Psychiatrists Know And Do About It?
Working Clinically With Eco-Anxiety In The Age Of Climate Change: What Do We Know And What Can We Do?
Are There Structural Determinants Of African-American Child Mental Health? Child Welfare – A System Psychiatrists Should Scrutinize
.
Monday, May 21
Community Activism Narratives In Organized Medicine: Homosexuality, Mental Health, Social Justice, and the American Psychiatric Association
Disrupting The Status Quo: Addressing Racism In Medical Education And Residency Training
Ecological Grief, Eco-Anxiety, And Transformational Resilience: A Public health Perspective On Addressing Mental Health Impacts Of Climate Change
Immigration Status As A Social Determinant Of Mental Health: What Can Psychiatrists Do To Support Patients And Communities? A Call To Action
Psychiatry In The City Of Quartz: Notes On The Clinical Ethnography Of Severe Mental Illness And Social Inequality
Racism And Psychiatry: Understanding Context And Developing Policies For Undoing Structural Racism
Trauma Inflicted To Immigrant Children And Parents Through Policy Of Forced Family Separation
Deportation And Detention: Addressing The Psychosocial Impact On Migrant Children And Families
How Private Insurance Fails Those With Mental Illness: The Case For Single-Payer Health Care
Imams In Mental Health: Caring For Themselves While Caring For Others
Misogynist Ideology And Involuntary Celibacy: Prescription For Violence?
Advocacy: A Hallmark Of Psychiatrists Serving Minorities
Inequity By Structural Design: Psychiatrists' Responsibility To Be Informed Advocates For Systemic Education And Criminal Justice Reform
Treating Black Children And Families: What Are We Overlooking?
Blindspotting: An Exploration Of Implicit Bias, Race-Based Trauma, And Empathy
But I'm Not Racist: Racism, Implicit Bias, And The Practice Of Psychiatry
No Blacks, Fats, or Femmes: Stereotyping In The Gay Community And Issues Of Racism, Body Image, And Masculinity
Silence Is Not Always Golden: Interrupting Offensive Remarks And Microaggressions
Black Minds Matter: The Impact Of #BlackLivesMatter On Psychiatry
…you get the idea, please don’t make me keep writing these.
Were there really more than twice as many sessions on global warming as on obsessive compulsive disorder? Three times as many on immigration as on ADHD? As best I can count, yes. I don’t want to exaggerate this. There was still a lot of really meaty scientific discussion if you sought it out. But overall the balance was pretty striking.
I’m reminded of the idea of woke capital, the weird alliance between very rich businesses and progressive signaling. If you want to model the APA, you could do worse than a giant firehose that takes in pharmaceutical company money at one end, and shoots lectures about social justice out the other.

The fourth thing you notice at the American Psychiatric Association meeting is the Scientologists protesting outside.

(snip)
Academia has also long been infiltrated. Not just by the latest fad of political correctness but, to a lesser extent, by cults.

Scientology Inc.'s "scholar" program - where Scientology Inc. wines & dines, deceives and, sometimes, hires/bribes "scholars" for their "expert" opinion in papers, books, and court testimony - has been in existence since the 1970s.

Scientology Inc., and other cults, are largely responsible for the creation of New Religious Movement studies category. Scientology Inc. shill, J. Gordon Melton, proudly claims to have invented the term "NRM" (New Religious Movement) as a substitute for "cult."

Melton, of course, was long employed by Scientology Inc. He was employed by other cults as well, including the Aum Shinrikyo poison gas cult of Japan.

Melton was also a long time defender of the child-sex cult Children of God.​

Here cult members sing a special recorded message
to their ailing cult leader, David Berg,
who they address as "Dad."

The fad of political-correctness and cult infiltration can come together in the strangest places. I recall Tony Ortega's reluctance to use the word "cult" when describing Scientology Inc.

"NRM" and, more recently, "minority religion" are the preferred terms, with "minority religion" stirring up images of black churches being besieged by the KKK.

It seems as though unscrupulous special interests, totalitarian political groups, and destructive cults are not only obsessed with controlling people's speech but also their thoughts, and they're ever devious in how they go about it.





 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Academia has also long been infiltrated. Not just by the latest fad of political correctness but, to a lesser extent, by cults.

Scientology Inc.'s "scholar" program - where Scientology Inc. wines & dines, deceives and, sometimes, hires/bribes "scholars" for their "expert" opinion in papers, books, and court testimony - has been in existence since the 1970s.

Scientology Inc., and other cults, are largely responsible for the creation of New Religious Movement studies category. Scientology Inc. shill, J. Gordon Melton, proudly claims to have invented the term "NRM" (New Religious Movement) as a substitute for "cult."

Melton, of course, was long employed by Scientology Inc. He was employed by other cults as well, including the Aum Shinrikyo poison gas cult of Japan.

Melton was also a long time defender of the child-sex cult Children of God.​

The view that social scientists are 'paid shills' by the cults is a paranoid conspiracy theory forwarded by the anticult movement evangelists such as Stephen Hassan, Jon Atack, Margaret Singer and others. These people and their brainwashing theories were disgraced and jettisoned in the courts and Singer was stripped of her ability to testify in court cases as an expert.

The APA - the American Psychological Association - disassociated themselves from her and her theories. Did the "cults" make the APA do that? Or did the careful scrutiny of her pseudo-scientific ideas cause that?

What happened to Margaret Singer and anti-cultists are facts. And it does not matter if Scientology presents these facts, or if Mike Rinder presents them. They are still facts - no matter who benefits or loses from them.

The truth has no "sides".

Part of getting out of anti-scientology, for me, was investigating the work of these "paid shills" and realizing this tired conspiracy theory that Veda has presented here was simply an ad-hom based dismissal that sought to discredit the life's work of hundreds of good scientists who won in court against the anti-cultists.

The Social Science literature on cults and brainwashing is very important for an Ex to become familiar with.

Veda's attempt here to distract everyone from the science on "cults" is duly noted.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
"Which are irrelevant to reality". I like that. Can I use that? It's sort of like using a politically correct verbal Poop Button on Veda.

I do agree it is important to stay out of pseudo-scientific bullshit. And to that point I really liked this blogger's take on the 2019 American Psychiatric Association meeting. We are so far beyond "Science" anymore. Anyone can pick their so called expert or scientific source of choice to push their own version of wokeness these days.

Imagine someone giving a seminar at this convention, "Understanding Scientology with Psychiatry in the Age of Wokeness".

https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/05/22/the-apa-meeting-a-photo-essay/

(snip)

There’s a popular narrative that drug companies have stolen the soul of psychiatry. That they’ve reduced everything to chemical imbalances. The people who talk about this usually go on to argue that the true causes of mental illness are capitalism and racism. Have doctors forgotten that the real solution isn’t a pill, but structural change that challenges the systems of exploitation and domination that create suffering in the first place?
No. Nobody has forgotten that. Because the third thing you notice at the American Psychiatric Association meeting is that everyone is very, very woke.
Here are some of the most relevant presentations listed in my Guidebook:

Saturday, May 18
Climate Psychiatry 101: What Every Psychiatrist Should Know
Women's Health In The US: Disruption And Exclusion In The Time Of Trump
Gender Bias In Academic Psychiatry In The Era Of the #MeToo Movement
Revitalizing Psychiatry – And Our World – With A Social Lens
Hip-Hop: Cultural Touchstone, Social Commentary, Therapeutic Expression, And Poetic Intervention
Lost Boys Of Sudan: Immigration As An Escape Route For Survival
Treating Muslim Patients After The Travel Ban: Best Practices In Using The APA Muslim Mental Health Toolkit
Making The Invisible Visible: Using Art To Explore Bias And Hierarchy In Medicine
Navigating Racism: Addressing The Pervasive Role Of Racial Bias In Mental Health
.
Sunday, May 20
Addressing Microaggressions Toward Sexual And Gender Minorities: Caring For LGBTQ+ Patients And Providers
Latino Undocumented Children And Families: Crisis At The Border And Beyond
Racism And Psychiatry: Growing A Diverse Psychiatric Workforce And Developing Structurally Competent Psychiatric Providers
Sex, Drugs, And Culturally Responsive Treatment: Addressing Substance Use Disorders In The Context Of Sexual And Gender Diversity
Grabbing The Third Rail: Race And Racism In Clinical Documentation
Racism And The War On Terror: Implications For Mental Health Providers In The United States
The Multiple Faces Of Deportation: Being A Solution To The Challenges Faced By Asylum Seekers, Mixed Status Families, And Dreamers
What Should The APA Do About Climate Change?
Intersectionality 2.0: How The Film Moonlight Can Teach Us About Inclusion And Therapeutic Alliance In Minority LGBTQ Populations
Transgender Care: How Psychiatrists Can Decrease Barriers And Provide Gender-Affirming Care
Gun Violence Is A Serious Public Health Problem Among America's Adolescents And Emerging Adults: What Should Psychiatrists Know And Do About It?
Working Clinically With Eco-Anxiety In The Age Of Climate Change: What Do We Know And What Can We Do?
Are There Structural Determinants Of African-American Child Mental Health? Child Welfare – A System Psychiatrists Should Scrutinize
.
Monday, May 21
Community Activism Narratives In Organized Medicine: Homosexuality, Mental Health, Social Justice, and the American Psychiatric Association
Disrupting The Status Quo: Addressing Racism In Medical Education And Residency Training
Ecological Grief, Eco-Anxiety, And Transformational Resilience: A Public health Perspective On Addressing Mental Health Impacts Of Climate Change
Immigration Status As A Social Determinant Of Mental Health: What Can Psychiatrists Do To Support Patients And Communities? A Call To Action
Psychiatry In The City Of Quartz: Notes On The Clinical Ethnography Of Severe Mental Illness And Social Inequality
Racism And Psychiatry: Understanding Context And Developing Policies For Undoing Structural Racism
Trauma Inflicted To Immigrant Children And Parents Through Policy Of Forced Family Separation
Deportation And Detention: Addressing The Psychosocial Impact On Migrant Children And Families
How Private Insurance Fails Those With Mental Illness: The Case For Single-Payer Health Care
Imams In Mental Health: Caring For Themselves While Caring For Others
Misogynist Ideology And Involuntary Celibacy: Prescription For Violence?
Advocacy: A Hallmark Of Psychiatrists Serving Minorities
Inequity By Structural Design: Psychiatrists' Responsibility To Be Informed Advocates For Systemic Education And Criminal Justice Reform
Treating Black Children And Families: What Are We Overlooking?
Blindspotting: An Exploration Of Implicit Bias, Race-Based Trauma, And Empathy
But I'm Not Racist: Racism, Implicit Bias, And The Practice Of Psychiatry
No Blacks, Fats, or Femmes: Stereotyping In The Gay Community And Issues Of Racism, Body Image, And Masculinity
Silence Is Not Always Golden: Interrupting Offensive Remarks And Microaggressions
Black Minds Matter: The Impact Of #BlackLivesMatter On Psychiatry
…you get the idea, please don’t make me keep writing these.
Were there really more than twice as many sessions on global warming as on obsessive compulsive disorder? Three times as many on immigration as on ADHD? As best I can count, yes. I don’t want to exaggerate this. There was still a lot of really meaty scientific discussion if you sought it out. But overall the balance was pretty striking.
I’m reminded of the idea of woke capital, the weird alliance between very rich businesses and progressive signaling. If you want to model the APA, you could do worse than a giant firehose that takes in pharmaceutical company money at one end, and shoots lectures about social justice out the other.

The fourth thing you notice at the American Psychiatric Association meeting is the Scientologists protesting outside.

(snip)

View attachment 15648
You continue to change the frame of reference of this discussion into some kind of Marxist-inspired political insurgency.

Why can't you just stay on the subject?
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
You continue to change the frame of reference of this discussion into some kind of Marxist-inspired political insurgency.

Why can't you just stay on the subject?

It is true that you don't need to be a Marxist to exploit Marxist techniques such as taking control of the meanings of words to make cogent discussion impossible. Cults become Sub-Groups and Minority Religions and Felons become Justice Involved Persons. Anyone paying attention gets it. It's important that we only look at what the experts tell us and not believe our own lying eyes.

If you are going to base your argument on your choice of experts it is only natural that it also becomes important to negate the credibility of experts being used by the other side. I am pointing out that the experts you are quoting are heavily influenced by SJW agendas which also happen to coincide with Marxist agendas to divide society into groups that compete over rights and benefits allocated by a central authority. Who funds these studies? Could they be globalists who are funding Controlled Opposition? Why would billionaire currency traders fund Occupy Wall Street? I understand that you will be motivated to characterize experts and people of influence on my side of the argument as things like saviors because that conveys a connotation of devotion based on faith and logically unsupportable premises. By displacing the term Ex-Community with Anti-Scientology Cult you get to portray a lot of very diverse individuals as sharing some kind of mass psychological disorder according to your experts. Scientology and Marxists do the same thing.

I call this using rhetoric as a debate strategy device. It is not changing the frame of reference or another rhetorical device to define your debate strategy.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
It is true that you don't need to be a Marxist to exploit Marxist techniques such as taking control of the meanings of words to make cogent discussion impossible. Cults become Sub-Groups and Minority Religions and Felons become Justice Involved Persons. Anyone paying attention gets it. It's important that we only look at what the experts tell us and not believe our own lying eyes.

If you are going to base your argument on your choice of experts it is only natural that it also becomes important to negate the credibility of experts being used by the other side. I am pointing out that the experts you are quoting are heavily influenced by SJW agendas which also happen to coincide with Marxist agendas to divide society into groups that compete over rights and benefits allocated by a central authority. Who funds these studies? Could they be globalists who are funding Controlled Opposition? Why would billionaire currency traders fund Occupy Wall Street? I understand that you will be motivated to characterize experts and people of influence on my side of the argument as things like saviors because that conveys a connotation of devotion based on faith and logically unsupportable premises. By displacing the term Ex-Community with Anti-Scientology Cult you get to portray a lot of very diverse individuals as sharing some kind of mass psychological disorder according to your experts. Scientology and Marxists do the same thing.

I call this using rhetoric as a debate strategy device. It is not changing the frame of reference or another rhetorical device to define your debate strategy.
But your re-framing is filled with unsupported assumptions and conspiracy theories.

Here:

I am pointing out that the experts you are quoting are heavily influenced by SJW agendas which also happen to coincide with Marxist agendas to divide society into groups that compete over rights and benefits allocated by a central authority. Who funds these studies? Could they be globalists who are funding Controlled Opposition? Why would billionaire currency traders fund Occupy Wall Street?
Could you please provide any evidence at all that David Bromley, for example, as a professor of sociology at the university of Virginia is "heavily influenced by SJW agendas" ?

Just for one.

The thing about conspiracy theories is that the lack of evidence to support them are proof that they are true. Why is there no evidence for the claims? Because the conspiracy would never allow it!

That's how you know the conspiracy theory is true - because there is no evidence for it.

So show us how David Bromley is who you say he is.

How about Dick Anthony? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Anthony
 

Veda

Sponsor
Academia has also long been infiltrated. Not just by the latest fad of political correctness but, to a lesser extent, by cults.

Scientology Inc.'s "scholar" program - where Scientology Inc. wines & dines, deceives and, sometimes, hires/bribes "scholars" for their "expert" opinion in papers, books, and court testimony - has been in existence since the 1970s.

Scientology Inc., and other cults, are largely responsible for the creation of New Religious Movement studies category. Scientology Inc. shill, J. Gordon Melton, proudly claims to have invented the term "NRM" (New Religious Movement) as a substitute for "cult."

Melton, of course, was long employed by Scientology Inc. He was employed by other cults as well, including the Aum Shinrikyo poison gas cult of Japan.

Melton was also a long time defender of the child-sex cult Children of God.​

Here cult members sing a special recorded message
to their ailing cult leader, David Berg,
who they address as "Dad."

The fad of political-correctness and cult infiltration can come together in the strangest places. I recall Tony Ortega's reluctance to use the word "cult" when describing Scientology Inc.

"NRM" and, more recently, "minority religion" are the preferred terms, with "minority religion" stirring up images of black churches being besieged by the KKK.

It seems as though unscrupulous special interests, totalitarian political groups, and destructive cults are not only obsessed with controlling people's speech but also their thoughts, and they're ever devious in how they go about it.
Postscript:

J. Gordon Melton not only insisted that Scientology Inc., and the child-sex cult Children of God, and other destructive cults, were not cults, he also insisted that Jim Jones' People's Temple was not a cult, and continued to insist it was not a cult even after over 900 dead bodies were recovered in the wake of the mass suicide-murder of November 1978.

Years later, while questioned in court as a paid "expert" witness, he again insisted that Jim Jone's People Temple was not a cult.

Jim Jones had been an ally of Scientology Inc., and had been briefed by Scientology's private Intelligence and dirty tricks department. Below Jones, only six month before his overseeing of the mass death in Guyana, spoke of his ally Scientology, and his enemy author Paulette Cooper:


___________​

January 1986: David Miscavige talks about a new OT level which is done "in a completely exterior state," after one causatively discards the body (commits suicide):



________​


Jim Jones' last speech:

"The relaxation of stepping over to the next plane."

_________

Although this time period has been brushed under the rug, let us not forget that in the aftermath of the January 1986 Death event, there were Scientologists who were enthusiastically anticipating following in Ron's footsteps and "causatively discarding the body" and going to the next level.

Somewhere, out there, are at least several copies of a tape recorded phone conversation from January/February 1986. This recording, which I heard shortly after it was made, and remember fairly well, was between a person (I think now residing in the Netherlands) named George (pretending to be a Scientologist in good standing) and the Executive Director of a Scientology Mission and OT 7.

It was the first time that George had conversed with this person after the "Death Announcement." It was extremely strange.

The Mission ED thought that it was WONDERFUL that Ron had "causatively discarded the body," and spoke happily - her words - of "doing OT 15, learning to discard the body [like Ron did], and going [after killing the body] to be with Ron."

If anyone out there has a copy of this stored away somewhere in his garage, please dig it out and put it on the Net.

From this, and other reactions, it was obvious that a portion of the Scientology membership - circa 1986 - had the potential to be happy suicide cultists.
 

TheOriginalBigBlue

Gold Meritorious Patron
But your re-framing is filled with unsupported assumptions and conspiracy theories.

Here:


Could you please provide any evidence at all that David Bromley, for example, as a professor of sociology at the university of Virginia is "heavily influenced by SJW agendas" ?

Just for one.

The thing about conspiracy theories is that the lack of evidence to support them are proof that they are true. Why is there no evidence for the claims? Because the conspiracy would never allow it!

That's how you know the conspiracy theory is true - because there is no evidence for it.

So show us how David Bromley is who you say he is.

How about Dick Anthony? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Anthony
Hah! Note the qualifier "heavily" (bold mine). So what, I'm supposed to spend my time trying to prove your experts aren't "heavily" Marxist but lightly or medium Marxist is cool? What about their funders and associates? And who gets to decide what is lightly or medium Marxist if the arbiters think it's the other belief system that is the misguided one. Of course, Marxist professors wouldn't try to downplay their Marxist inclinations because they might be self-aware enough to realize that this would undermine their credibility in a real intellectual venue.

But more to the point. From my perspective YOU are using Marxist debate tactics and you lost me as a possible convert early on because I found your premises to be week and deliberately manipulative. If you made a stronger argument straight out of the gate without so much agenda driven denigration I might now be willing to spend time looking into the things that drive your reasoning. I have spent a lot of time reading things other people have linked here but that is because they established credibility with me. I expect you will write this off as my blind adherence to Tribal Bias and that is exactly why Marxist professors coined the term.

Maybe you can characterize my opinions as conspiracy theory but I can say the same about your attempts to characterize Mike, Leah, Karen, Jeffrey, Tony and a host of others as being part of some conspiracy. If we define conspiracy as working together toward the common goal of fighting Scientology abuse while evading OSA fair gaming then granted, it's a conspiracy. We can play tit for tat all day long but I think the main difference is motivation. I am motivated to support people who are effective at getting rid of Scientology abuses but your main motivation seems to be to push the Scientology Corporate PR agenda of minimizing or eliminating the public perception of them as a cult with a play on lingusitics.

I don't see any meaningful common ground here no matter how many professors you quote be they Marxists or not.
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Hah! Note the qualifier "heavily" (bold mine). So what, I'm supposed to spend my time trying to prove your experts aren't "heavily" Marxist but lightly or medium Marxist is cool? What about their funders and associates? And who gets to decide what is lightly or medium Marxist if the arbiters think it's the other belief system that is the misguided one. Of course, Marxist professors wouldn't try to downplay their Marxist inclinations because they might be self-aware enough to realize that this would undermine their credibility in a real intellectual venue.

But more to the point. From my perspective YOU are using Marxist debate tactics and you lost me as a possible convert early on because I found your premises to be week and deliberately manipulative. If you made a stronger argument straight out of the gate without so much agenda driven denigration I might now be willing to spend time looking into the things that drive your reasoning. I have spent a lot of time reading things other people have linked here but that is because they established credibility with me. I expect you will write this off as my blind adherence to Tribal Bias and that is exactly why Marxist professors coined the term.

Maybe you can characterize my opinions as conspiracy theory but I can say the same about your attempts to characterize Mike, Leah, Karen, Jeffrey, Tony and a host of others as being part of some conspiracy. If we define conspiracy as working together toward the common goal of fighting Scientology abuse while evading OSA fair gaming then granted, it's a conspiracy. We can play tit for tat all day long but I think the main difference is motivation. I am motivated to support people who are effective at getting rid of Scientology abuses but your main motivation seems to be to push the Scientology Corporate PR agenda of minimizing or eliminating the public perception of them as a cult with a play on lingusitics.

I don't see any meaningful common ground here no matter how many professors you quote be they Marxists or not.
So no evidence whatsoever that either Dick Anthony or David Bromley are who you claim them to be.
 

JustSheila

Crusader
So no evidence whatsoever that either Dick Anthony or David Bromley are who you claim them to be.
Don't make foolish, offhand statements. I know BB and knew him personally very well for years in the SO and so have dozens of others who are out. We worked together, FYI. He is an honest, forthright man with an outstanding memory and his word is GOLD. BB has integrity. Always did, always will.

On the other hand, nobody seems to know much of anything about you, like who you really are and your actual history with Scientology and why you are so incredibly interested in it to confirm you know anything at all about it, were on staff or not, were public or not, and when or where. You are a voice in the air with a fake ID, where BB is a known real person, so you're in no position at all to question anyone else's integrity. It's like a vapor questioning whether a statue everyone sees and knows is there and has been around for years exists.

I'm not saying you have to come forward, Alanzo. In fact, I wouldn't recommend it. But I would think by now after all your years of posting that SOMEone who knew you well IRL that has come forward could verify SOME thing about you. BB is for real. End of story.

No more ad hom digs at a person's honesty or recollections, please. It's ridiculous.
 

Free Being Me

Crusader
The term "brainwashed" is sometimes used informally, for example, in 1967, presidential contender George Romney traveled to Vietnam. Later he said he had been "brainwashed by the generals" who were in charge of explaining the situation in Vietnam and showing him around. They had misled him into believing things that weren't true.

The term "brainwash" was the invention of a newspaper reporter in 1950. It's slang, and has a variety of meanings.

Its use really annoys cults. They go crazy over it.
The recent repetitious ham-fisted "handling" of Ex's proves your point.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Don't make foolish, offhand statements. I know BB and knew him personally very well for years in the SO and so have dozens of others who are out. We worked together, FYI. He is an honest, forthright man with an outstanding memory and his word is GOLD. BB has integrity. Always did, always will.

On the other hand, nobody seems to know much of anything about you, like who you really are and your actual history with Scientology and why you are so incredibly interested in it to confirm you know anything at all about it, were on staff or not, were public or not, and when or where. You are a voice in the air with a fake ID, where BB is a known real person, so you're in no position at all to question anyone else's integrity. It's like a vapor questioning whether a statue everyone sees and knows is there and has been around for years exists.

I'm not saying you have to come forward, Alanzo. In fact, I wouldn't recommend it. But I would think by now after all your years of posting that SOMEone who knew you well IRL that has come forward could verify SOME thing about you. BB is for real. End of story.

No more ad hom digs at a person's honesty or recollections, please. It's ridiculous.
I was just guessing , yesterday who would be next after type 4 and me...

I wrote on my paper it would either be Big Blue or Trouble
But I thought Big Blue for the well of informations (very embarrassing) when persuing misinformation and fallacies...
It was obvious..

Veda shall also be in the docket
And soon FBM, who is restless
:D

Ah well old boys and girls are very stubborn..
And one shall never attack the credibility of one of Sheila's former mate she holds in esteem..Sheila bites. :)
Wrong target with BB...highly esteemed folk on ESMB an exe community!

;)
 
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JustSheila

Crusader
I was just guessing , yesterday who would be next after type 4 and me...

I wrote on my paper it would either Big Blue or Trouble
But I thought Big Blue for the well of informations
It was obvious..

Veda shall also be in the docket
And soon FBM Who is restless
:D

Ah well old boys and girls are very stubborn..
And one shall never attack the credibility of one of Sheila's former mate she holds in esteem...
Wrong target with BB...highly esteemed folk on ESMB an exe community.

;)
:bighug:

BB is a sweetheart and a personal friend. A true innocent, too, who never got involved with hurting others, just worked in Estates and renovations. I never knew back then he had such a brain, though! :giggle: He was and is one of those people everyone liked and still likes. It's not hard to stick up for him, anyone who knew him would, but he can stand up for himself, too. He's no wimp, that's for sure.

I just hate ad homs and yeh, I really like BB and the facts and information he adds to discussion. Ad homs aren't debate and degrades the forum and discussions.

I'm not sure Alanzo is targeting posters so much as having personal digs at anyone who questions his opinions. It's apparently his concept of debate to attack the individual or maybe just an automatic emotional reaction, IDK, but it's bad form and unprofessional in discussions. Someone once posted a summary of Robert's Rules of Order ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert's_Rules_of_Order ) and it was really helpful here for a while.
 

lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
:bighug:

BB is a sweetheart and a personal friend

I just hate ad homs and yeh, I really like BB and the facts and information he adds to discussion. Ad homs aren't debate and degrades the forum and discussions.

Someone once posted a summary of Robert's Rules of Order ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert's_Rules_of_Order ) and it was really helpful here for a while.
This is what several folks also voiced as a concern , but unfortunately it remains the same.

Thank you for the link though!

Big Blue is a gentleman , cool, generous and his equanimity stands out in troubled times.

But the most important, he is an expert in renos, but unfortunately has a flaw; lives so far..lol
:)
 
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lotus

stubborn rebel sheep!
Paul recently wrote a nice piece of tech
Works fast..

"Not playing your game"

Like it!
 
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