New member. Currently reading Dianetics...
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Veda
Sponsor
[/QUOTE
[bcolor=#ffffff]Are you really that cold blooded?
Fifty years ago, there's was adequate information available to warn people about Scientology.[/bcolor]
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From Life magazine article, 1968
At that time, there were people with the same attitude you're expressing here now.
Scientology specializes in getting kids just out of high school, or away at college.
It lures many types of people in many ways.
There were always those who knew better and felt that the young and foolish deserved neither help nor sympathy.
I don't believe you really think that way.
Scientology specializes in getting kids just out of high school, or away at college.
It lures many types of people in many ways.
There were always those who knew better and felt that the young and foolish deserved neither help nor sympathy.
I don't believe you really think that way.
"Wisdom without compassion is ruthlessness. Compassion without wisdom is folly."
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ILove2Lurk
Lisbeth Salander
Perhaps, but I lived in a smaller town and couldn't find much if anything at all
in my local libraries. Certainly not issues of Life from 1968, critical books or even
Hubbard's books. Believe me, I had looked. None of this stuff was readily available
back then. Not in flyover country.
Veda
Sponsor
What year was that?
Clay Pigeon
Gold Meritorious Patron
Before I started my study of Hubbard's work I spent two days at SF Public Library hitting the stacks from The Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature and other than his connection to Jack Parsons most of the criticism was there. Your local library didn't keep old periodicals?
I've also read that in the NY Public library old magazines have had critical pieces cut out of them
I read the notorious 1968 Life article in the dayroom of the barracks at Fort Knox. First I ever heard of Hubbard.
George Layton
Silver Meritorious Patron
Then isn't now. Every time you remind readers that there have been people who have gained from scientology you enhance the chances that people that don't know better and are looking for self advancement or self awareness might turn to scientology for those answers become trapped.[/QUOTE
[bcolor=#ffffff]Are you really that cold blooded?[/bcolor]
[bcolor=#ffffff]Fifty years ago, there's was adequate information available to warn people about Scientology.[/bcolor]
From Life magazine article, 1968
At that time, there were people with the same attitude you're expressing here now.
Scientology specializes in getting kids just out of high school, or away at college.
It lures many types of people in many ways.
There were always those who knew better and felt that the young and foolish deserved neither help nor sympathy.
I don't believe you really think that way.
"Wisdom without compassion is ruthlessness. Compassion without wisdom is folly."
[bcolor=#ffffff]T[/bcolor]
To hell with anything that any person has gained from scientology. If you were to combine every single gain from every person that ever gained anything from scientology it still would not justify one new recruit's involvement into scientology, freezone scientology, knowledgeism or any other offshoot. How many here that support the idea that there can be some gain from scientology do so because they are to vain to admit that they have wasted decades on a scam?
because we have lived our lives following some ideal or another does not mean we have never gained anything from that living of life, but to validate the life we have lived by our actions, we may as well disregard those actions and focus on what we have become and ignore why we have become it.
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screamer2
Idiot Bastardson
Veda
Sponsor
Scientology, which is rotten at the core, and rotten at the core by design, uses - as in exploits - good people.
it also uses, and exploits, some good ideas. (Such as "clean up your messy kitchen and you'll feel better.")
Not necessarily profound or worth handing over control of your mind for, but some "good ideas" nonetheless.
By not recognizing that Scientology uses good (well intentioned) people, and some (not necessarily earth shaking) "good ideas" with which to lure people IN (among the hype and deception), one fails to fully describe the deceitful disguise used by Scientology.
Not knowing the details of Scientology's disguises places the potentially vulnerable person at a disadvantage.
That is one reason for mentioning (with an explanation) that there is "some good" in Scientology.
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
I don't get your point. What exactly is it I said that means I am "cold blooded"?
I have no idea what you are referring to.
You say you don't believe i really think this way. What way?
I am unable to guess at what you are talking about, everything i said seems pretty obvious common sense to me.
Care to elaborate?
The last thing I had in the church was a sec check I didn't want. Half-way through it, I suddenly had the thought "what if auditing doesn't work?" I was doing an auditing action I didn't want, at my expense, coughing up O/Ws for the sake of it, when that auditing action was not what I needed or wanted.
When I needed sec-checking, coughing up O/Ws was beneficial. In fact, when that was the case, I didn't GET sec checked - the O/Ws just came out naturally in session, because I was co-operating, and knew it was in my best interests.I felt better getting them off my chest. But when I didn't need it, nobody gave tuppence for the fact that the sec-check didn't indicate. I finally concluded that I was being degraded by the auditing, in the end, because nobody was consulting MY 'knowingness'; it was being IMPOSED on me as a punishment, rather than being something I co-operated in in order to make spiritual gains.
A similar thing happened to someone I knew. He originated certain things in session (I won't go into the details, as it's not my story to tell), which were, basically, ignored. And then he was shunted on to the next action that showed clearly that they were ignoring his origination. He didn't stay in Scientology much longer. Although it can be dressed up in Scientology terminology such as 'knowingness' and 'origination', etc., it just amounts to not listening to the person being audited, who, after all, knows better than anyone about what is going on with them spiritually.
I think that any spiritual practice that allows a person to be properly listened to is going to bring about some benefit. If Scientology auditing ever had that, it certainly seems to have lost it in the rush for stats and 'saving the planet'.
Yes. It would be interesting to see what a group could do, if it just used some of the basic good ideas that you can find in Scientology (confront/acknowledging people/cleaning up your past indiscretions, etc), yoga (keep your body in good shape), good nutrition with the right vitamins, etc etc., and didn't have any of the stats/money/group-loyalty/give-your-life-to-us crap.Scientology, which is rotten at the core, and rotten at the core by design, uses - as in exploits - good people.
it also uses, and exploits, some good ideas. (Such as "clean up your messy kitchen and you'll feel better.")
Not necessarily profound or worth handing over control of your mind for, but some "good ideas" nonetheless.
By not recognizing that Scientology uses good (well intentioned) people, and some (not necessarily earth shaking) "good ideas" with which to lure people IN (among the hype and deception), one fails to fully describe the deceitful disguise used by Scientology.
Not knowing the details of Scientology's disguises places the potentially vulnerable person at a disadvantage.
That is one reason for mentioning (with an explanation) that there is "some good" in Scientology.
strativarius
Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
It's so annoying to hear you repeating over and over that there was plenty of information about scientology available fifty years ago Veda. Until my brother told me about it I had never ever heard the word before. I was an avid reader, especially of books on natural history, science and 'unexplained phenomena', so any book on scientology in my public library - to which I was a member - would have caught my eye. I had never seen anything in the newspapers about it, nor heard anything on the radio. I think you are just plain wrong on that one.
Veda
Sponsor
There was plenty of information available fifty years ago.
And apart from that information - and more importantly - there were also the obvious signs that this was a cult, such as giant pictures of Hubbard in Orgs.
One visit to an Org was enough for most people to recognize that this was a cult and should be avoided.
Those who became involved chose to ignore those obvious signs.
One could say they behaved foolishly.
(I am usually not a "Darwinian" with regard to those who behave foolishly. Foolishness, especially in youth, is part of being human, but that's another discussion.)
I also never heard about until I heard about it, So?
One, if curious, investigates it after hearing about it.
I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
There was no information around regarding scientology 40-50 years ago where I was living ... none at all or if there was, it wasn't easy to locate.
Today it is literally at the fingertips of anyone wanting to do some research.
There is no comparison ... anyone getting involved in the cult today does so for reasons I will never understand.
Today it is literally at the fingertips of anyone wanting to do some research.
There is no comparison ... anyone getting involved in the cult today does so for reasons I will never understand.
strativarius
Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
Oh well, we're just not going to agree on this matter. I still refute your claim that there was plenty of information on scientology available fifty years ago.
In my own particular case, when I did hear about it I felt there was no need to 'investigate' it since it was my elder brother who introduced me to the subject and as far as I was concerned he could practically walk on water, so if he said something was worth looking into then that was good enough for me.
There was nothing in London Org. (or the HASI as it was known back then) in Fitzroy Square that would lead one to believe scientology was a cult. There was no giant picture of Hubbard as you state, only a bronze bust of the man which was very impressive but not intimidating. The place was full of middle class middle-aged men and women (and even one or two from the upper classes who would say 'OK yah' ) at that time and they were all very 'respectable', not the sort of people one would associate with an evil sect.
Of course I investigated it - or I was prepared to learn more about it. I sat down with the rest of the newbies and listened to a talk by David Gaiman.
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I told you I was trouble
Suspended animation
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
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If there was plenty of information available fifty years ago, why did you get suckered in?
What are you trying to say, that 50 years ago..what? People should have known better?
I am not getting your posts on this thread at all.
If there was plenty of information available fifty years ago, why did you get suckered in?
What are you trying to say, that 50 years ago..what? People should have known better?
I am not getting your posts on this thread at all.
strativarius
Inveterate gnashnab & snoutband
He didn't take very kindly to me. Among all the respectable middle class folks I was talking about there was this gauche sixteen-year-old sitting there who wanted to become 'more aware'. His riposte was 'More aware of WHAT?'
My introduction to scientology - wishing the ground would open up and swallow me.
guanoloco
As-Wased
That's to say nothing about the control of information exerted by Hubbard's church...efforts to hide, obstruct and silence this material and it's release.
Today, try as they might, it's impossible due in large extent with the internet.
It's really no comparison at all 50 years ago to today. For instance, one can pick up their phone laying in bed and Google and read Madman or Messiah or YouTube an Aftermath episode as opposed to being in the right spot at the right time to catch a news segment or drive to a library to check out a critical book that Scientology forgot to steal and then try to compare that to a very sleek and slick professional come-on from an active org in the pre-Miscavige era.
Knowing zero about it how did one do research 50 years ago or just pre-internet? The library...an easily controlled gateway.
All one needs to do now is Google "scientology" and it's all there. A lazy search will bring up ESMB.
If someone gets caught today there's really no excuse. Caveat emptor.
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