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Suicidal Staff Members?

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
I have seen many, many, many Sea Org members who have considered suicide and been out qualled for orgs and bases because of it. They all ended up at ASHO and AO and the other PAC orgs. (at least on the Western side, I dont know where they go from other bases).

That's true.

I remember one girl who wound up at AOLA from LRH Archives because of a suicide atempt.

The service orgs, by the way, end up with a lot of the "rejects" from the management orgs. Suicide attempts, chronic illnesses ("the sickies"), too many kids, bad 2D history, etc.
 

lionheart

Gold Meritorious Patron
T.I. no wonder you breezed through life in the CofS unscathed!

Well done for surviving your upbringing! :thumbsup:
 
I'm a former staff member too, and I have to say: What a bunch of bleeding hearts you all are. You're down at "sympathy" on the Tone Scale. Don't you see that all these people are just PTS or out-ethics? They pulled it in.

They are a Potential Trouble Source for Ron, and that's the only stable datum you need. Go back and re-tread your Ethics materials. They could screw up everything Ron has accomplished, just like Quentin did when he committed that suicide overt. As Ron said at the time, "What has that damn kid done to me now?"

All it would take is one evil psych SP to plant one PTS into an org to bring down the most ethical group on the planet, and screw up the only game where everyone wins.

So what's with all the "it sure is a shame"s and "I'm sorry"s here? What are you, some kind of homo sapien wogs that aren't even trying?

You never heard Ron apologize about anything, did you? That's because he was all about ARC, and ARC means never having to say you're sorry.

Now let's all review the data and find out whose head should go on a pike. And I don't want to hear any wisecracks about Ron being the SP in the woodpile.

Keep Scientology Wanking,
http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1132

Much love,
Charles Lee Jones, Ethics Officer
 
It's possible that I displayed a little too much HE&R (Human emotion and reaction) in my last post. Allow me to tell you a true story, and you can draw your own conclusions.

At the org where I worked, there was a guy we'll call Frank. He was a former staff member, and he'd often come in to help out when it was needed. Nice guy; we all liked him. He was friends with all the old-timers. He was about my age at the time, which was pushing 40. Frank had a beautiful wife, also a Scientologist, and two great kids, ages about 10 and 12.

If memory serves, he was OTVl.

So it came as a great shock one day when we found out that Frank had taken a shotgun and blown his head off.

Of course, all the org execs had to have a meeting to work out a handling on the situation.

There was another public, who everyone knew. Call her Sally. She was also OTVl, I believe. The day after Frank did it, and after the exec meeting, Sally made the rounds of all of Frank's friends, and told us she'd gotten in comm with Frank.

She said Frank had done it because his purpose was to join the Sea Org, and he couldn't join because he'd taken LSD this lifetime. She said he was happy, and doing well.

Isn't that something?

I know he left a widow, and robbed two children of their father for 30 or 40 years, and didn't leave a note or anything. That I know of.

But at least Sally left us more uptone, and ready to produce. She was an OT, so who were we to question her?

I never saw his wife or kids again.
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
T.I. no wonder you breezed through life in the CofS unscathed!

Well done for surviving your upbringing! :thumbsup:

Thanks LH!

Simple problem solving skills really.

As soon as the sun would come up I would follow the sun beams coming in the windows and sit in them as the sun wound around. I focused on pulling in as much heat as I could. I only thought about the warmth. As the sun went down I would be fed and hear her walking back down the stairs. At that time I knew she would not come back up until the next day. Then I would crawl under the mattress and stay there until the sun came up the next day. But when you are that age and have to spend a solid month working to stay alive it becomes a skill that sticks with you. When you are that age and survive an entire household of grown ups trying to put you down it builds a lot of confidence.

I was in the Sea Org about three months when some guy all full of stripes and authority walked up to me and started yelling in my face. After about ten seconds I slapped him so hard he spun. That was the last time anyone yelled at me in the Sea Org.


I did get a few KR's written on me, maybe two. But the people who wrote them put them in the comm system right before they were stepping into a van to go to some other location.

Sometimes I suspect I was never comm eved or declared because I would have definately waited outside of a building for the people who wrote it or signed it to confront them if it had been full of false data.

It really amazes me how people complain about abuse in the Sea Org. And I saw a lot of it happen. Mental abuse like humiliation, demotion, loss of rights etc. But have you ever noticed how non violent the staff are? Only myself and one other person I knew ever struck someone in the Sea Org. Sure, I heard DM did. But nobody is really kicking anybodies ass over there. The other person I knew got kicked out and ordered to get through ot3 before she could get back in.

All in all, they are a bunch of whimpy white people.

During the years I spent in that coal mining town, five altogether, I only had shoes when there was snow on the ground. Otherwise I went barefoot. No one wanted to spend money on me unless it was absolutely neccessary. In the summertime from running through the woods or whatever, I developed huge bleeding cracks under toes. Nobody paid attention to it and I didn't much either. Later, when I ended up in Berkely California at eight, I saw all of these "hippies" going barefoot. I couldn't believe people would volunteer to walk around with no shoes on given other choices.

In the Sea Org, I couldn't believe people would allow some security officer to lead them off to the RPF when they were there working for basically free. I got threatened to be sent to the RPF once. I told that senior the RPF looked good to me because at least I would get some study time. That was the last time anyone threatened to send me to the RPF.

I certainly didn't set myself up to be financially dependent on the Sea Org. When I cashed out to go in I went to Florida and for 5000.00 down on each bought some houses, turned them over to a property management company to rent out for me. They collected rent, paid the mortgage, and deposited the rest into my bank account. No way was I going to put someone in the position to make me homeless or tell me I couldn't get my teeth cleaned or buy whatever I needed.

You don't see anyone who ever really had to suffer and climb buying into that. You don't see any blacks at all in the Sea Org. They would see it as being pimped out. And in reality, what is DM but a pimp?

All in all, you see a lot of delicate whites there on a motivator flow. You don't see people who have already suffered enough and won't have it anymore.

DM does not even put himself in a position to let anyone there be at cause over him. His finances. His 2d. His mest. His money. Hubbard didn't either.
We all want to make a better world but when someone tells you you have to suffer for that .............................. I don't buy into that. "The group is all and the individual is nothing" is abberrated. Hubbard said it was.

The group over there is very low toned and keyed in. It is down to "must be contributed to" and "sadism".

They are a lot of delicate people throwing golden rod at each other and crying about it. Crying because they had to do some mest work too which is considered the same as an execution. Crying because they were kicked out. Complaining because someone didn't give them applause to leave or stay.

If Scientology survives at all it will be because of the Russians.

DM himself won't walk around now without six or seven body guards to kick somebodies ass for him if he gets threatened.

Yet, you know, they see themselves as dangerous because they have the gold paper. They have the "justice".

Most of them sit at desks all day long and think they have worked their butts off.

It's actually funny.

When someone does mistake me for someone on a motivator flow I just sort that out real quick.
 
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Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
So. That's *your* 'Ser Fac'; anybody who complains about Hubbard or Scientology or the 'Church' of Scientology is a crybaby who pulled it in.

Must be nice to be you :)

Zinj
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
I understand where you're coming from, but I suspect that some critics may not.

I see a lot of posts on various forums about "blaming the victim". (though some of the same people are mighty quick to do some blaming and oppression of their own but that's another story. Heh.)

Actually, people DO have some responsibility for where they wind up. This does not excuse the people who hurt them, it simply means everyone in the equation generally has some responsibility, some more than others.

When I was on staff and it was not good- well, it was wrong of those people but I did let them do that stuff to me.

My saying that does not excuse them, but it doesn't excuse me, either.

People shouldn't suppress others and when they do, they are grossly responsible, but some of us collude in our own suppression.

But I will say this- when someone is constantly suppressed, constantly crapped on, it drives him or her downtone to where he's not really capable of snapping out of it and taking the reins of control into his own hands.

This is why, when you have a bad bad situation, the "SP" or predator has a GREATER share of the moral responsibility for the situation.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
You don't see any blacks at all in the Sea Org.


Well, that's not exactly true.

There may not be a lot of them, but there definitely are blacks in the Sea Org.

The blacks that do join tend to wind up in Security or HCO. This is one reason I feel Scientology is courting those publics; they make a good recruit pool. For whatever reason a lot of blacks who do wind up in Scientology have a very "clean" background and are HCO qual'd.

Some of them wind up quite high up.

Jesse Prince is black, for instance.
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
You have to agree to be suppressed before it can happen to you.

There are so little blacks in the Sea Org in wasn't worth counting. How many black OT7's have you known? I know of one. Unless Isac has moved up. They don't even move on the bridge as public because they notice outpoints that other people can't see. People pretending to be little police officers for instance.

I am just saying it takes more than someone holding up a piece of gold paper with symbols on it in front of me to cave me in.

Zinj, you mention Hubbard and Hubbard and Hubbard as if you had actually met the man.

Sure, I have ser facs. Lot's of them. I make people wrong who try to degrade me and tear me down and invalidate me. I make them wrong by winning over and over and over again.

:blah:

And the more people try to make nothing out of me the bigger and bigger I grow. And I know that just enturbulates the fuck out of my enemies.

:crutch:

When I die, I'll die laughing. :dieslaughing:
 
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clamicide

Gold Meritorious Patron
Actually, people DO have some responsibility for where they wind up. This does not excuse the people who hurt them, it simply means everyone in the equation generally has some responsibility, some more than others.

When I was on staff and it was not good- well, it was wrong of those people but I did let them do that stuff to me.

My saying that does not excuse them, but it doesn't excuse me, either.

People shouldn't suppress others and when they do, they are grossly responsible, but some of us collude in our own suppression.

But I will say this- when someone is constantly suppressed, constantly crapped on, it drives him or her downtone to where he's not really capable of snapping out of it and taking the reins of control into his own hands.

This is why, when you have a bad bad situation, the "SP" or predator has a GREATER share of the moral responsibility for the situation.

The replies on this thread sort of blow me away. When you are in the despair, you don't realize there are people at other orgs going through the same thoughts and feelings. I heard the rumors of various other staff members who were on 'suicide watch', and saw things in folders, but I really didn't connect that what I was going through was a somewhat 'normal' reaction in some ways.

Yep, I agree that I let it happen. I'm also to the point where I can also lay some blame on others' shoulders. After I got some great results, and had pcs thanking me for 'saving their life' after auditing them--I really thought I'd die in that horrible abyss of pain for eternity if I left or got kicked out. That did me in. I had been smacked around as a kid,--I didn't have a great life. In fact, while I was on staff, I was slipped something while out one night and woke up in some strange place with some guy on top of me, but THAT didn't phase me (actually, I was afraid of getting in trouble for it!), and didn't affect me nearly as much as what I experienced while in the CofS. MEST work wasn't a big deal--I was used to screaming from my childhood--it was the daily degradation, coupled with lack of sleep and lousy food from only getting a few minutes to try to eat; and I really, truly ended up believing I was worthless scum in the end.

There was sort of a maxim that was followed it seemed--If you are pissed off and upset at someone below you on the org board, then they are out-ethics scum who needs their ethics slammed in and lower conditions; if you have a complaint about someone or something above you on the org board, then you are a natterer with huge overts who will soon find themselves in lower conditions, scrubbing toilets and being screamed at.

When I got out, I was completely spun out of my mind. Thank goodness I ran into someone who used to work for the org that I used to, who gently suggested I might try reading some of the 'infamous books' and look online. The internet is absolutely wonderful--I'm a researcher from hell, and if it had existed when I got in years ago, I can't see how I possibly would have joined. Now, I wake up happy--I really love life. The only 'good' thing about the experience is how damned much I appreciate every little wonderful thing and freedom that I have. I didn't need another session, I didn't need another lower condition, I didn't need anything to cure my insanity and depression other than to get the hell out. Yep, I definitely lay some blame on Scio.
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
It's possible that I displayed a little too much HE&R (Human emotion and reaction) in my last post. Allow me to tell you a true story, and you can draw your own conclusions.

At the org where I worked, there was a guy we'll call Frank. He was a former staff member, and he'd often come in to help out when it was needed. Nice guy; we all liked him. He was friends with all the old-timers. He was about my age at the time, which was pushing 40. Frank had a beautiful wife, also a Scientologist, and two great kids, ages about 10 and 12.

If memory serves, he was OTVl.

So it came as a great shock one day when we found out that Frank had taken a shotgun and blown his head off.

Of course, all the org execs had to have a meeting to work out a handling on the situation.

There was another public, who everyone knew. Call her Sally. She was also OTVl, I believe. The day after Frank did it, and after the exec meeting, Sally made the rounds of all of Frank's friends, and told us she'd gotten in comm with Frank.

She said Frank had done it because his purpose was to join the Sea Org, and he couldn't join because he'd taken LSD this lifetime. She said he was happy, and doing well.

Isn't that something?

I know he left a widow, and robbed two children of their father for 30 or 40 years, and didn't leave a note or anything. That I know of.

But at least Sally left us more uptone, and ready to produce. She was an OT, so who were we to question her?

I never saw his wife or kids again.

I beleive "Sally" 100%. Anyone on a mission to blow their brains out would be a prime recruit for the Sea Org. They could then commit suicide covertly by having everyone else suppress the shit out of them.
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
The replies on this thread sort of blow me away. When you are in the despair, you don't realize there are people at other orgs going through the same thoughts and feelings. I heard the rumors of various other staff members who were on 'suicide watch', and saw things in folders, but I really didn't connect that what I was going through was a somewhat 'normal' reaction in some ways.

Yep, I agree that I let it happen. I'm also to the point where I can also lay some blame on others' shoulders. After I got some great results, and had pcs thanking me for 'saving their life' after auditing them--I really thought I'd die in that horrible abyss of pain for eternity if I left or got kicked out. That did me in. I had been smacked around as a kid,--I didn't have a great life. In fact, while I was on staff, I was slipped something while out one night and woke up in some strange place with some guy on top of me, but THAT didn't phase me (actually, I was afraid of getting in trouble for it!), and didn't affect me nearly as much as what I experienced while in the CofS. MEST work wasn't a big deal--I was used to screaming from my childhood--it was the daily degradation, coupled with lack of sleep and lousy food from only getting a few minutes to try to eat; and I really, truly ended up believing I was worthless scum in the end.

There was sort of a maxim that was followed it seemed--If you are pissed off and upset at someone below you on the org board, then they are out-ethics scum who needs their ethics slammed in and lower conditions; if you have a complaint about someone or something above you on the org board, then you are a natterer with huge overts who will soon find themselves in lower conditions, scrubbing toilets and being screamed at.

When I got out, I was completely spun out of my mind. Thank goodness I ran into someone who used to work for the org that I used to, who gently suggested I might try reading some of the 'infamous books' and look online. The internet is absolutely wonderful--I'm a researcher from hell, and if it had existed when I got in years ago, I can't see how I possibly would have joined. Now, I wake up happy--I really love life. The only 'good' thing about the experience is how damned much I appreciate every little wonderful thing and freedom that I have. I didn't need another session, I didn't need another lower condition, I didn't need anything to cure my insanity and depression other than to get the hell out. Yep, I definitely lay some blame on Scio.

And now you have been vaccinated. Because I can assure you, you will never permit yourself to suffer that way again. And you are stronger and immune to certain virus'.
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
Well, that's not exactly true.

There may not be a lot of them, but there definitely are blacks in the Sea Org.

The blacks that do join tend to wind up in Security or HCO. This is one reason I feel Scientology is courting those publics; they make a good recruit pool. For whatever reason a lot of blacks who do wind up in Scientology have a very "clean" background and are HCO qual'd.

Some of them wind up quite high up.

Jesse Prince is black, for instance.

Speaking of Jesse, I don't think anyone can appreciate the magnitude of being that man is and how many people he freed by stepping forward and fighting back.

If I hadn't read his tape transcripts on the net I would not have ever clicked on a Freezone button.

Jesse is a big , big. big, being.
 

Lulu Belle

Moonbat
Speaking of Jesse, I don't think anyone can appreciate the magnitude of being that man is and how many people he freed by stepping forward and fighting back.

If I hadn't read his tape transcripts on the net I would not have ever clicked on a Freezone button.

Jesse is a big , big. big, being.


Well, that may be true after he got out and got involved with Minton, etc.

But when Jesse was in RTC, he acted exactly like every other Int Exec asshole.

I remember when he would walk through PAC. I would greet him as he walked by (sometimes with his 2 dogs; something the peons would never be allowed to have) and he wouldn't even look at me.

Just because a staff member is black doesn't mean that he can't be just as much of a jerk as a white person.

Women and even children get to be total jerks, too.

One thing you can say about the SO.

It's an "equal opportunity" asshole making organization.

:p
 
I beleive "Sally" 100%.

I was thinking it was a shore story, but you could be right.

Anyone on a mission to blow their brains out would be a prime recruit for the Sea Org. They could then commit suicide covertly by having everyone else suppress the shit out of them.

I don't think I follow. Per Sally, he was on a mission to join the Sea Org. Offing himself was just a way to get there quicker.
The implication was that he wanted to be in the Sea Org because they were the cat's ass. He had no way to know, nor would he have believed, that it was a suppressive organization.

Whatever was going on in his mind, all those expensive OT levels didn't help him raise his two children.
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
We can assume he didn't have his ser facs handled. We can assume he was not actually a clear. And we can assume he was not duty motivated towards his family. There! He would have fit right in with 95% of the Sea Org.

That's about the only witty point I can make from such a tragedy.

No "shore" story so flaky as the one you were given could make good PR from what he did.

If suicide was the best solution he could arrive at to handle his problems he obviously wasn't even a problems release.

I can't explain things like this at all.

On this, the subject is out of my league.
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
But if it helps to know in some form of understanding, the reactive mind is a buffer between a person and other case. Once a person goes clear it is very important they move onward. One reason why clears "don't feel clear" after a while, if they are stalled, is because that other case has moved in on top them.

And it keeps going that way for a while, at least through ot5 audited nots. OT5 handles disabilities as one of it's steps, also suppression as one of it's steps. Something like depression could be handled in a matter of hours. Suicidal tendencies could be handled very easily.

BTW:

NEW SLANT ON LIFE :

"Nobody else can do anything to you but YOU. That is a horrible state of affairs. It requires your postulate, your agreement or your disagreement, before anything can happen to you. People are victims of their own postulates, of their own belief they are inadequate. An individual has to postulate into existence his own aberration.

THE ONLY ABERRATION IS DENIAL OF SELF".

That's what suicide is, denial of self.

My motto is, move over baby cause I am taking up some space here on the couch.
 
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Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
TI,

It is wrong to enturbulate critics, particularly when they are bashing you. You are supposed to just say "please, sir, may I have some more?" Anything other than that is evil.

And if you believe that...Heh!

:hysterical: :roflmao:
 

The Oracle

Gold Meritorious Patron
TI,

It is wrong to enturbulate critics, particularly when they are bashing you. You are supposed to just say "please, sir, may I have some more?" Anything other than that is evil.

And if you believe that...Heh!

:hysterical: :roflmao:

LMAO! You're dangerous!
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
I know I'm late on this thread, but I lurked here and found it interesting.

To consider or believe that one is a thetan who has lived forever and will again.. I don't see that making your life 'valuable'.. I see it making your life dispensable!

Thus, an EOC may look like a way out.

Indeed I've heard this rationale many times in Cof$. People who thought their GE made it impossible for them to attain OT states... In THIS lifetime!

I've even heard that uttered from tech people about someone.

I've had the thought myself, since my experience in the Cof$ had me convinced I was an SP.. All these unknowable 'incidents' on my gazillion year track that lurked in my mind. Making me a source of evil... Causing my failures, some of which was unendurable... But then, I realized I would still be an SP when reborn.. I would just have to watch it and pretend to be a good guy.

Unreal shit!

Thing is, that if we are meatballs, then life is unique and indispensable. I came from 'being a meatball' thinking that, happy as can be.

I still think a life is indispensable.

There was a guy at Copenhagen org who was killed in a car accident. His wife inherited a pile of money (insurance), which she gave the registrars at Flag... Why would I ever think that he did that on purpose?

Another guy I met a couple of times then.. He was sick with cancer. He believed that the tech could save him, but didn't have the money. Or the time.. As he expressed it, "This thing on my case maybe buried deep. Would probably be handled on the OT levels. Too late this lifetime!"

He died.

I guess I'm a meatball in a pair of jeans. If indeed there is life after death, then I still think Hubturd was an evil basterd.

The kind of mindbending circus he created can have no justification!

:mad:
 
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