Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
I don't think anyone believes that DM was solely responsible for the Lisa tragedy, just that he played a definite part in it. (At least, that's how I view it.)
I don't think anyone believes that DM was solely responsible for the Lisa tragedy, just that he played a definite part in it. (At least, that's how I view it.)
I don't think anyone believes that DM was solely responsible for the Lisa tragedy, just that he played a definite part in it. (At least, that's how I view it.)
Hey GB,
You may well know "Mate". He may wish to comment. You should
search out other info on this issue. There is other info.
Mark, I don't disagree with you, but I don't know they actually decided that or planned it or even personally want it ... . I personally believe that these guys are doing most of what they are doing to make right the bad shit they did, right or wrong, good or bad methods, say what you will about their intentions ... my opinion ... that is what they are doing. I am not saying everything they are doing is right or wrong, I am just saying this is my opinion as their friends, and I am the first to admit we are three highly imperfect friends.
And who is to say anyone first coming out of the cult makes intelligent decisions on anything? Sometimes once things are in play, it is very difficult to change. And, though I haven't had this discussion with them, I bet if they were to review things from their ever evolving perspective, they would have done things differently. Thats life. Thats personal growth and development and healing.
I am going to piss a lot of people off with this comment, but fuck it. I believe one of the key problems many exes have, and ex SO, and I mean more the sheep ones, not all, but many in the independent community, is a need for a leader or hero or figurehead to follow and worship ... I don't know they even realize it. First it was Ron, then DM, now they are out, and looking for the next great hope ... Marty, then Mike, then Debbie ... I have even noticed people on boards following packs ... I am not sure if this is a human trait, or scilon created or both.
Reminds me of one of my old working theories on life ... three different types of people ... sheep, sheppard and wolves.
And an excellent reason why an intelligent person might want to rethink intentionally putting himself into a role as a 'public figure' until he can actually face up to the facts of his life.
Mark A. Baker
Mark, I don't disagree with you, but I don't know they actually decided that or planned it or even personally want it ... . I personally believe that these guys are doing most of what they are doing to make right the bad shit they did, right or wrong, good or bad methods, say what you will about their intentions ... my opinion ... that is what they are doing. I am not saying everything they are doing is right or wrong, I am just saying this is my opinion as their friends, and I am the first to admit we are three highly imperfect friends.
And who is to say anyone first coming out of the cult makes intelligent decisions on anything? Sometimes once things are in play, it is very difficult to change. And, though I haven't had this discussion with them, I bet if they were to review things from their ever evolving perspective, they would have done things differently. Thats life. Thats personal growth and development and healing.
I am going to piss a lot of people off with this comment, but fuck it. I believe one of the key problems many exes have, and ex SO, and I mean more the sheep ones, not all, but many in the independent community, is a need for a leader or hero or figurehead to follow and worship ... I don't know they even realize it. First it was Ron, then DM, now they are out, and looking for the next great hope ... Marty, then Mike, then Debbie ... I have even noticed people on boards following packs ... I am not sure if this is a human trait, or scilon created or both.
Reminds me of one of my old working theories on life ... three different types of people ... sheep, sheppard and wolves.
That's definitely how I view it, too, Panda. However, in another post someone else claimed she was doing well until DM took over. Extremely unlikely, considering some of Hubbard's horrendous medieval Type 3 handling policies and cruel isolation techniques.
Nothing like forced physical imprisonment with complete sensory, social and communication deprivation to "help" a person improve. It would be nice if some of these people would come around and apologise for being so stupid as to enforce such barbaric methods on traumatised individuals, rather than say things like "the tech is great! It was just DM!"
Makes me Too many people ended up dead or traumatised by these techniques.
Fascinating to watch this.
It's interesting that most ex-scientologists seem wonderful people (defined as people I'd get along with), yet somehow this LRH "tech" or whatever you term it, turned them for periods into ... probably what Xenu, if he had really existed, would have loved.
It's the church culture, not the tech.
Mark A. Baker
Mark - do you think the culture was shaped by LRH as a grand strategy of control or merely "accidentally" "evolved" into what it became under DM etc.?
The line is a thin one. The Church culture is, in at least some form, what LRH himself set up. ...
Thank you very much!
It is all just too convenient to write this down and put events together in such a way that only DM was responsible when nearly all of what Mate wrote here is just conjecture. Not ONCE does David give testimony or detail of a single C/S instruction that he has heard or observed or seen by DM or for that matter, anyone else, on Lisa's folder. He did not personally know.