The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Maria, to get here, I click on ESMB and get their title page, ect. and I click on "My Story Inside Scientology" This brings up all the currently active threads that fall into that category. Next to each threads title of their total number of views since inception and their total number of replies since inception. Right now our total views are at 1,877,646.
Lakey

Thank you!!!! And thank you about the picture.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

All the sudden my hits on my academia.edu page had more hits than ever, which makes no sense except that I am posting here and when I started to use my real name people googled me. I rarely go there and but when I get visitors the site sends me a notification.

btw I am an old timer too.

 

[Terril park]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Mer and Lulu Belle......I just stumbled upon this Original Post by Gottabrain in the OSA Tactics and Procedures thread.....and thought I'd post it here.....as some corroboration to what Mer had posted about AAC.

Perhaps he is talking about you Mer....Its a possibility. I'm not trying to grind on this....just thought it was interesting....

Edited: if he is not talking about you, then RTC/OSA sent another person in......also.

Gotabrain wrote, "Here is an example: A long range OSA Op plan may include infiltrating different Scn or Anon groups and disrupting things or gaining info. But setting up their own OSA squirrel group and receiving or delivering auditing? Not going to happen. Too complex, too many variables, too hard, requires too many people, too many risks, too much coordination and the OSA Ops would worry about it messing up their cases. As Terril pointed out on another thread, it’s never happened in the past (if anyone knows of an instance, please correct me). OSA Ops HAVE been in David Mayo’s classroom, though. I knew of one who did this, a woman who was working on her A-E steps from being declared. She infiltrated Mayo’s group for 3 months as her effective blow and amends – I signed her formula. She told me they didn’t have student points and a few other things. She was extremely uncomfortable doing it, though. When the Op was over, she was pretty confused over who the good guys and bad guys were. She left the C of S completely a few years later, btw. No, OSA wouldn’t start their own group to deliver Scn outside the C of S. No way. The risks! The Op could turn without their knowing and grab the most damaging materials from the Cult and give them to the Ex’s. Who could be trusted that far and not to be caught? Never happened before and I can’t see it ever happening. "

There is a very interesting post by Tony O today. It raises the possibility
that the FBI was doing Ops against CO$.


http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/02/ne...by-notorious-scientology-spy-merrell-vannier/

"But Vannier, with help from Martiniano, believes Alverzo’s role was even bigger — that he pushed the GO into illegal activities because he was an agent provocateur secretly working for the FBI and setting up Scientology for its raid."

 

[Terril park]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Well I hope they are encouraged to post it here and to talk about it. I know it is hard because I experienced it. It made me stay away from all Scientology exes for decades. (By which I meant that when one confesses one's less than noble actions, which I do here) there is always a chance that someone will come in here and scream at me/them.

But I don't like fighting so if that happens you'll have to wait and see how I handle it.

Just about everyone who got involved with Scn would have
committed less than noble actions. Don't sweat it.

As soon as you saw the people at AAC were good you left.
The actions of a good person.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Congratulations!

It's a pity you didn't get your Goldenrod to show your friends.

Mine is one of my most treasured possessions.

I had it but I was so disgusted that at some point I tore it up into lots of pieces and threw them away.
It never occurred to me I'd want to frame it later!

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

There is a very interesting post by Tony O today. It raises the possibility
that the FBI was doing Ops against CO$.


http://tonyortega.org/2015/03/02/ne...by-notorious-scientology-spy-merrell-vannier/

"But Vannier, with help from Martiniano, believes Alverzo’s role was even bigger — that he pushed the GO into illegal activities because he was an agent provocateur secretly working for the FBI and setting up Scientology for its raid."

So what are folks like Vannier who are still believers in "tech" called these days?

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

So what are folks like Vannier who are still believers in "tech" called these days?

The two most popular names seems to be "Freezoners" and "Independents" usually abbreviated as "Indys".
Lakey

 

[Lulu Belle]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Thank you Lulu. If you have memories of Ray and Sammy going there to infiltrate, feel free to share.
I didn't know about Sammy being at AAC, only knew about Mithoff. I read something Julie wrote somewhere, about how devastated she and David were concerning what had happened with Ray.

I never heard anything about Ray infiltrating. I knew about Ray's brother Bob and his wife Sammy.

Ray was in the Sea Org. Bob and Sammy were out. They had supposedly resigned from COS and joined Mayo's group.

It was years later I found out that COS had planted them there.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I never heard anything about Ray infiltrating. I knew about Ray's brother Bob and his wife Sammy.

Ray was in the Sea Org. Bob and Sammy were out. They had supposedly resigned from COS and joined Mayo's group.

It was years later I found out that COS had planted them there.

Well, maybe he will get out one day and tell us about it. Apparently Ray did infiltrate and then after that op was done went back to CoS.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I never heard anything about Ray infiltrating. I knew about Ray's brother Bob and his wife Sammy.

Ray was in the Sea Org. Bob and Sammy were out. They had supposedly resigned from COS and joined Mayo's group.

It was years later I found out that COS had planted them there.

So then, Bob was never actually out. His resignation from the S.O was phony just to dupe the Mayo group so he could be planted there. I don't know his status today. I imagine that he is still in. Does anyone know for sure?
Lakey

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

So then, Bob was never actually out. His resignation from the S.O was phony just to dupe the Mayo group so he could be planted there. I don't know his status today. I imagine that he is still in. Does anyone know for sure?
Lakey

I found this online, and that goes along with various things people have been posting on esmb the last few days. Now I don't know if Robert or Ray infiltrated AAC. This says it was Robert. Another poster wrote that it was Ray.


[FONT=Verdana,Ariel]
"Also admitted by RTC / Church of Scientology: Robert Mithoff, brother of Ray Mithoff, and Sammie (Cynthia) Mithoff (wife of Robert Mithoff), were retained by Church of Scientology / RTC and its lawyers (in particular John Peterson) to infiltrate and spy on the AAC and David and Julia Mayo between the years 1983-1987. The Mithoffs were paid several thousand dollars per month to do this. Robert Mithoff's code name was "TH", for "Trojan Horse".

During the course of this "infiltration", the Mithoffs misrepresented that they had left the Church of Scientology and were no longer connected with it in any way when they were hired by the Church of the New Civilization / AAC. During the course of their employment and work at the AAC, the Mithoffs stole much proprietary information from the AAC, including: the AAV materials, financial information, names and telephone numbers of parishioners, confidential case notes, personal letters, mailing lists and provided this information to RTC / Church of Scientology and their lawyers. The mailing list was used by RTC / Church of Scientology to send out bulk mailings of hate mail, which was defamatory of AAC staff."

[/FONT]

http://www.holysmoke.org/dm/dmayo003.htm

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I found this online, and that goes along with various things people have been posting on esmb the last few days. Now I don't know if Robert or Ray infiltrated AAC. This says it was Robert. Another poster wrote that it was Ray.


[FONT=Verdana,Ariel]
"Also admitted by RTC / Church of Scientology: Robert Mithoff, brother of Ray Mithoff, and Sammie (Cynthia) Mithoff (wife of Robert Mithoff), were retained by Church of Scientology / RTC and its lawyers (in particular John Peterson) to infiltrate and spy on the AAC and David and Julia Mayo between the years 1983-1987. The Mithoffs were paid several thousand dollars per month to do this. Robert Mithoff's code name was "TH", for "Trojan Horse".

During the course of this "infiltration", the Mithoffs misrepresented that they had left the Church of Scientology and were no longer connected with it in any way when they were hired by the Church of the New Civilization / AAC. During the course of their employment and work at the AAC, the Mithoffs stole much proprietary information from the AAC, including: the AAV materials, financial information, names and telephone numbers of parishioners, confidential case notes, personal letters, mailing lists and provided this information to RTC / Church of Scientology and their lawyers. The mailing list was used by RTC / Church of Scientology to send out bulk mailings of hate mail, which was defamatory of AAC staff."

[/FONT]

http://www.holysmoke.org/dm/dmayo003.htm

It was definitely Bob who was a plant. Ray went on to become Senior C/S, first at Flag and then soon after, he became Senior C/S INT. He particpated in making some of the movies directed by LRH. One movie he made had to do with identifying meter reeds. I saw that one several times at OC Org in Tustin when I did my academy levels their in the early 90's. Later on, he fell out of favor with DM, who called him "out tech". From what I read, he is still in but is one of the former senior execs no living in "The Hole" in Hemet.

I was never all that impressed with Ray back in the CCLA days. His post was while I was there was just Course Admin. He and Bob used to put on a show, I forgot what they were called but they dressed and talked like Hillbilly's from the Ozark Mountains and they played some rudimentary musical instruments and told jokes. They were entertaining but the talent level was not very high. Some of the other CCLA performers were very talented.

My Favorites were Paul Shapiro, a Jewish kid from New York who composed his own songs and sang them while accompanying himself on guitar. Than there was Sharon Gregg, married to Bobby Lyons, whose favorite song was "Son of a Preacher Man". After Bobby appeared in a successful movie, he dumped Sharon and started hanging around with starlets, several of whom he brought in the Org. Dick Glass, the Eloquent Elephant was a good singer and guitar man. Then we had Dutchman, Andrik Schappers, a singer, Kathy Moore, a young and beautiful dancer who did ballet, we had Mario Fenninger, now 90 years old and still in, who gave concerts playing classical piano music, it was always the same composers, he started with the two Scarlotti's, father and son, who composed in the early 1700's, then he played tons of Chopin at a world class level and then for his encore, he would play something by his Mother, Teresa dela Rogatis (spelling). Solari and Carr was a comedy team, Backpocket was a top level rock and role band made up of Pat Robertson and the other Pat Marszcek. Pat M. was a world class drummer, boy could he play drums!! Our Qual sec, Sam Loria, was also a world class drummer and was in a Scn band called Blackhawk, Steven Ambrose, a sweet guy with a gorgeous voice who made a record with Barnaby records which made it into the top 10 or top 20 on L.A. radio and so it went. Free entertainment nightly, seven days a week. What a fun place to hang out, to see and be seen!

Lakey

 

[Elronius of Marcabia]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I am gathering my thoughts on the sunshine rundown so I can write about it next. I'll probably write about Venezuela later, after my trip to LA for OT levels and Int for Sunshine R/D, since this is a more "California Sunshine thread".
My experiences in LA were different because while I was there as a pc on OT levels, I think I was being whisked through so I could audit some bogged OTs at AOLA too. I had a reputation for fixing cases. So I fixed one case literally by smiling at the man and asking him to pick up the cans. He picked them up, f/ned and then we went to Qual to verify it. LOL. After that we returned to session. I think the LA people freaked given that they had been trying to F/N him for MONTHS. Whhhhaaaaaaa. I can honestly say, and when asked what I did I did say, "Absolutely nothing."

An admiring smile from a beautiful young woman gets an FN everytime my dear thats not
tech thats human nature

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

It was definitely Bob who was a plant. Ray went on to become Senior C/S, first at Flag and then soon after, he became Senior C/S INT. He particpated in making some of the movies directed by LRH. One movie he made had to do with identifying meter reeds. I saw that one several times at OC Org in Tustin when I did my academy levels their in the early 90's. Later on, he fell out of favor with DM, who called him "out tech". From what I read, he is still in but is one of the former senior execs no living in "The Hole" in Hemet.

I was never all that impressed with Ray back in the CCLA days. His post was while I was there was just Course Admin. He and Bob used to put on a show, I forgot what they were called but they dressed and talked like Hillbilly's from the Ozark Mountains and they played some rudimentary musical instruments and told jokes. They were entertaining but the talent level was not very high. Some of the other CCLA performers were very talented.

My Favorites were Paul Shapiro, a Jewish kid from New York who composed his own songs and sang them while accompanying himself on guitar. Than there was Sharon Gregg, married to Bobby Lyons, whose favorite song was "Song of a Preacher Man". After Bobby appeared in a successful movie, he dumped sharing and started hanging around with starlets, several of whom he brought in the Org. Dick Glass, the Eloquent Elephant was a good singer and guitar man. Then we had Dutchman, Andrik Schappers, a singer, Kathy Moore, a young and beautiful dancer who did ballet, we had Mario Fenninger, now 90 years old and still in, who gave concerts playing classical piano music, it was always the same composers, he started with the two Scarlotti's, father and son, who composed in the early 1700's, then he played tons of Chopin at a world class level and then for his encore, he would play something by his Mother, Teresa dela Rogatis (spelling). Solari and Carr was a comedy team, Backpocket was a top level rock and role band made up of Pat Robertson and the other Pat Marszcek. Pat M. was a world class drummer, boy could he play drums!! Our Qual sec, Sam Loria, was also a world class drummer and was in a Scn band called Blackhawk, Steven Ambrose, a sweet guy with a gorgeous voice who made a record with Barnaby records which made it into the top 10 or top 20 on L.A. radio and so it went. Free entertainment nightly, seven days a week. What a fun place to hang out, to see and be seen!

Lakey

Reading this I wished I could rewind. And be there. What does it mean when the past, in Scn, sounds so nice. Not that I would EVER be in it now. I mean only THEN.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

An admiring smile from a beautiful young woman gets an FN everytime my dear thats not
tech thats human nature

So much for the tech.

Well I can't tell you how much I wish OT existed and I could just go back to that time and STAY THERE. (But I'd never be a scientologist now. It's not the scientology that I like it's the people and the time period.)

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Hey Maria! Welcome to another Academic! I've so enjoyed reading your posts...the oral history is invaluable.

Every little piece of the puzzle helps us to "understand" the true history of COS and Scientology, including all the black ops and dirty deeds done. The Mayos were posting here at ESMB a while back, and may still be reading along with us.

I'm a never in...just someone who has many friends who have been negatively impacted by Corporate Scientology, and so am a Critic.

Here's some REAL subversive Squirrel activity!

http://youtu.be/xIEWgxuaPyA

I think he tried to take a selfie up in that tree!

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Hey Maria! Welcome to another Academic! I've so enjoyed reading your posts...the oral history is invaluable.

Every little piece of the puzzle helps us to "understand" the true history of COS and Scientology, including all the black ops and dirty deeds done. The Mayos were posting here at ESMB a while back, and may still be reading along with us.

I'm a never in...just someone who has many friends who have been negatively impacted by Corporate Scientology, and so am a Critic.

Here's some REAL subversive Squirrel activity!

http://youtu.be/xIEWgxuaPyA

Thank you sweetnessandLight, what are your academic areas?

Mine are Literature, and Philosophy. I taught a bit in both and I had another career in computer programming for a while. Have no particular career going at the moment...so I am here too much.

 

[Elronius of Marcabia]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

So much for the tech.

Well I can't tell you how much I wish OT existed and I could just go back to that time and STAY THERE. (But I'd never be a scientologist now. It's not the scientology that I like it's the people and the time period.)

Sure you can tell me no ones listening just kidding, evenin m'am

 

[Lulu Belle]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

So then, Bob was never actually out. His resignation from the S.O was phony just to dupe the Mayo group so he could be planted there. I don't know his status today. I imagine that he is still in. Does anyone know for sure?
Lakey

I broke my right wrist and I'm right handed so typing is a bitch.

I'll just copy and paste a thread I started a couple of years ago about Bob. Looks like he is still in, or was as of 2012. He completed OT IV then.

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?31140-Bob-Mithoff&p=797165&highlight=mithoff#post797165

I just noticed...if you read the obit notice about Bob and Ray's mother that Smurf posted, Bob and Sammy were still together, at least as of 2011.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Reading this I wished I could rewind. And be there. What does it mean when the past, in Scn, sounds so nice. Not that I would EVER be in it now. I mean only THEN.

Celebrity Center in L.A. was a pretty special place in it's beginning years. Also, ASHO in thr 70's had some magic going on. There was a little magic at AOLA and the L.A. Org but nothing like CCLA. In the '70's, I was also fortunate enough to visit the Denver Org, going there in the summer of 1975 to visit my brother. As it turned out, he was living in the home of the C.O Mike Goldstein's parents, and they also put me up with a room there for the week I was there. Denver was really a "happening" place at that time. Mike and has then wife, Rebecca, had just left the Apollo and came to Denver and took over the Denver Org and really boomed it. Many interesting people were hanging out there. I even met my future wife (now my ex wife) there in Denver. She was a 22 year old who was holding down Division II. I got introduced to all the staff by Mike and I remember shaking hands with her and saying hello. Nothing came of it for 5 years at which time I ran into her again at ASHO. I didn't recognize her but she recognized me.

Among other Orgs or missions which I visited in the 70's was the Sacramento mission in 1974. I went up to Sacramento to visit on old friend of my brother's, Jim. He was into horses and was working with horses at the Sacramento County Fair. After my visit, as I started the long drive home, I passed the Sacramento Mission, and decided to check it out. Who should be there but Alan Walters. I new him a bit from CCLA where we both attended opinion leaders meetings. At the time, I was out of the S.O. for 6 months and could not get training or processing because I had a freeloaders debt. Alan told me that I looked like I was dying as a spiritual being and that I had to get that debt paid off and get back on lines. I took his advice to heart and in 6 months, I was back on course at CCLA.

Then we have the Las Vegas Org, I visited 3 or 4 times in the 1975, 1976 period. I was a Blackjack player, learning the Thorpe system of counting the cards which Ed Thorpe, PHD, revealed in his 1962 book, "Beat the Dealer". Betty Murakami and her husband John had both been staff members at CCLA when I was there. Betty was Div 2 Sec and I was in Div 3 so we interacted a lot and became friends. I will state flat out that Betty Murakami was (and still is) one of the finest people I have ever met. Anyway, I used to go up to Las Vegas to play blackjack and I decided one day to stop in and see Betty, who left CCLA and became CO of the LV Org. We had a nice chat and then Betty said that maybe we could grab lunch at a casino and then play a little blackjack. Betty, John and I went together. It was really fun and I quickly won $100 with a good run of cards in about 30 minutes and I decided to pocket the money and quit.

The Las Vegas Org, under Betty and John was doing pretty well, there was a high espirit de corp. Their specialty seemed to be attracting musicians, not the biggest stars but those who played in the lounge shows. John Murakami was one such musician, a trumpet player. Usually, the musicians in the Vegas lounge shows also played in the bands for some major name singers starring in casino shows, such as Kenny Rogers or Lou Rawls. These type of musicians were good FSM's, often able to disseminate Scn to other musicians even celebrity musicians. The Las Vegas Org used to select these entertainers to go do courses at CCLA but Yvonne and Betty came up with the idea of starting a Celebrity Centre in Los Vegas as well. In that manner, CC Las Vegas was born and flourished.

The last Org I saw in the 1970's was the Flag Land Base, where I went in 1977. It was pretty spectacular, maybe even more exciting than CCLA. The thing I like the most was the international flavor of the public people. There were so many German speaking people from the big orgs in Germany and Switzerland. I had plenty of opportunities to practice speaking German. Then, of course, Eastern Europe, North Africa and Larin America were heavily represented. No need to state that Australians and New Zealanders were there in large numbers. Besides all the foreigners, often one would bump into an old friend from the L.A. area. We public who went there were treated like kings and queens and we had freedom to do what we wanted. When we were having sessions, we could swim in the pool between sessions, play some tennis at some courts only 2 blocks away or watch television in our rooms. I remember being invited to watch a championship basketball game and also a major boxing match, while at the Fort Harrison. The PC waiting room featured a ping pong table and a couple of early Atari video games. We public were catered to and allowed to lounge around and take it easy in between sessions. TV and newspapers were allowed to be watched and read.
Lakey