The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Lulu Belle]

Re: Preface to the Escape from the CCLA

As I was writing this, I went onto Google images, hoping to find some pictures that would communicate WHY I had this desire to be in good standing. Just why was it so hard for me or anyone else to leave. What was the draw? Lakey gave a beautiful picture of CCLA in the old days. People coming in from all over, the camaraderie, the energy, the high levels of ARC. That is the only answer I can come up with. Even as a public person or a staff person hated or noticed or felt sort of confused about certain aspects of the way Scientology was run ALL THAT COULD BE SET ASIDE because it was so much fun to be part of a group filled with such nice folks. The best part of the orgs was the experience of being together, not the tech or admin or any other department by itself. I think this is why people are so unhappy in the CoS right now. Somewhere along the way it became a business, not a family. It became all business and forgot about its purpose, stopped spreading the love, stopped having fun and stopped playing games. There is so little of that love going around it is now hard to tell why we were ever in. Maybe it was a sixties thing. A time of letting down our hair and being fun and setting aside judgment and exploring who we were as spiritual beings. There was something rebellious and contagious about being happy, about caring, about not fitting into society, about thinking different thoughts than wogs did, about exploring our own realities, about letting go of judgments and just liking each other because we were all together in this and boy was it fun.

This is true. I was AOLA staff in the 80s when Ivan Obolensky was the CO. We were like a family. It was fun.

 

[Lulu Belle]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The night I observed Karen Black RIP have a meltdown at the receptionist desk at Flag.....the receptionist was rude or indifferent to her!!! I don't know if she was already upset when she went there to check out or what but it was loud. It was the late seventies and I know she got in during the 70s and also that Flag was probably less than ideal for people who should have been at CC. I know that she left Scientology after only a few years in. Probably right around the time I saw her.

Ya know I was confused to see an SO member treating her like she was dirt, a crazy person. I am posting because while it seems celebrities are treated differently in the church this time it was slightly different.

i don't know exactly what the staff member did wrong but Karen Black was in tears and feeling humiliated. And making a scene she did not care who witnessed. While she did not look her best at that moment I assume something must have happened.....

i I was standing maybe two feet away....

As Lakey said, Karen was in for a long time; I guess until she died.

I have to be honest. Karen was on NOTs at AOLA while I was on staff. I remember when she'd come in for sessions; she kind of looked and acted like a bag lady. I don't really know why I had that impression of her but I did. She was always kind of a little crazy looking and would say things very impulsively. If you didn't know who she was you'd never think in a million years she was a famous actress.

The thing about how she was treated at Flag...Celebs got their asses kissed at CC, but not necessarily in the other SO service orgs. I know AOLA never gave any celeb the royal treatment until we started being forced to in the 90s. Karen and Kirsty Alley and Nancy Cartwright hung out in the NOTs lounge and waited for their sessions just like any other public. I remember coming out of my office on the third floor one day to see Anne Archer sitting in a folding chair near my door waiting for a KTL review.

The big big names like Cruise and Kidman got serviced by Int for the most part. Some, like Kelly Preston, were AO public but someone came to their house to audit them. But for the most part, the "normal" celebs were treated like regular public.

I always thought that was way better for everyone involved.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: Preface to the Escape from the CCLA

Fun? That photo of the wedding isn't staff - it was either a CMO wedding or one of Hubbard's kids. I've seen a series of photos from this event and discussion of the people in the photo.(I can't blow that photo up to check details, but this might be the wedding where the disappeared/imprisoned Shelly Miscavige was a bridesmaid.)

I find it very depressing, knowing what I know about that nasty, cruel old man at the head of the table, how many lives he destroyed and esp. the fates of the people in the photo. It's a facade - the air of "fun" was merely created as bait so Hubbard could control you and get your money.

my point is that there WAS a reason people stayed. There was some sugar on the poison pill. So school me; as to the fates of those in the picture did someone in the picture carry out the sentence or was that later?? If so perhaps a different picture would be better. I just couldn't find one of my own pictures, also at someone's wedding but in Miami.

I ask because while I agree with what you said I also disagree with what you said. So I feel you did not understand my post at all. Even though there was bad stuff I for one and many others did not have a 100% bad experience. For me it was 15-20% bad. It was an abusive relationship but it was not devoid of some human good experiences with my fellow staff. I do understand the lives lost and ruined, the evil controlling man who heads up the funny farm now. And the lunatic who ran it before. I left because I finally saw the trap. But it took years to realize the tech - for me - was a joke. I don't use or believe in any part of Scientology. But I won't lie and say that everyone there and every minute there was torture. For those for who it was torture, who were enslaved in the hole, neglected, not fed, abused physically, I am sad like all the rest. But no one in Miami went through that when I was there. I can only recount my own experiences at that time. Things got bad or worse later. I was not there then and lucky I left in the nick of time. I can only tell what I experienced. And why I left. BTW I have publicly, here in forum posts, and on the blog entries I have made, stated that I agree with Ron De Wolfe that Scientology = Satanism. That it's evil. If asked I could go through the tech and show why every single bit of it is worthless, nothing but barefaced lies. But the things I wrote about above have to do with human beings relating to each other and caring about each other, and nothing to do with the tech or Scientology itself. I was trying to say that something OTHER than Scientology was the good part. If you read the above again you will see that I never praise Ron, the tech, and I definitely don't mention wins. I talked about FUN in the human interaction between people who were in / on the same BOAT.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

As Lakey said, Karen was in for a long time; I guess until she died.

I have to be honest. Karen was on NOTs at AOLA while I was on staff. I remember when she'd come in for sessions; she kind of looked and acted like a bag lady. I don't really know why I had that impression of her but I did. She was always kind of a little crazy looking and would say things very impulsively. If you didn't know who she was you'd never think in a million years she was a famous actress.

The thing about how she was treated at Flag...Celebs got their asses kissed at CC, but not necessarily in the other SO service orgs. I know AOLA never gave any celeb the royal treatment until we started being forced to in the 90s. Karen and Kirsty Alley and Nancy Cartwright hung out in the NOTs lounge and waited for their sessions just like any other public. I remember coming out of my office on the third floor one day to see Anne Archer sitting in a folding chair near my door waiting for a KTL review.

The big big names like Cruise and Kidman got serviced by Int for the most part. Some, like Kelly Preston, were AO public but someone came to their house to audit them. But for the most part, the "normal" celebs were treated like regular public.

I always thought that was way better for everyone involved.

She was pretty out of it when I saw her but I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt since I did not catch everything that had just happened.

 

[Lulu Belle]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

She was pretty out of when I saw her but I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt since I did not catch everything that had just happened.

Just as a note...Karen was married to Renee Duke's son. Do you remember Renee? Long time Class VIII. She was an NSO auditor at AOLA for a long time. Got lured into CCI as SO staff with a bunch of bullshit promises which they of course didn't keep; I think that was the early 90s. I don't think she lasted there too long.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Just as a note...Karen was married to Renee Duke's son. Do you remember Renee? Long time Class VIII. She was an NSO auditor at AOLA for a long time. Got lured into CCI as SO staff with a bunch of bullshit promises which they of course didn't keep; I think that was the early 90s. I don't think she lasted there too long.

I will have to get hands on an org chart. I have no idea what NSO is. I've forgotten much Scientology terminology.....

 

[Lulu Belle]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I will have to get hands on an org chart. I have no idea what NSO is. I've forgotten much Scientology terminology.....

You won't find it on an org chart.

"NSO" means non Sea Org. The Sea Org orgs used to hire non SO tech people to audit, C/S, sup and FES. Some time around 1990 the orgs were forced to get rid of them all by management. The stats crashed after that and never went back up.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

As Lakey said, Karen was in for a long time; I guess until she died.

I have to be honest. Karen was on NOTs at AOLA while I was on staff. I remember when she'd come in for sessions; she kind of looked and acted like a bag lady. I don't really know why I had that impression of her but I did. She was always kind of a little crazy looking and would say things very impulsively. If you didn't know who she was you'd never think in a million years she was a famous actress.

The thing about how she was treated at Flag...Celebs got their asses kissed at CC, but not necessarily in the other SO service orgs. I know AOLA never gave any celeb the royal treatment until we started being forced to in the 90s. Karen and Kirsty Alley and Nancy Cartwright hung out in the NOTs lounge and waited for their sessions just like any other public. I remember coming out of my office on the third floor one day to see Anne Archer sitting in a folding chair near my door waiting for a KTL review.

The big big names like Cruise and Kidman got serviced by Int for the most part. Some, like Kelly Preston, were AO public but someone came to their house to audit them. But for the most part, the "normal" celebs were treated like regular public.

I always thought that was way better for everyone involved.

I recall reading some LRH policy on this subject. It was written in the 60's I believe but it was written before CCLA was up and running in late 1969. It talked about delivery to celebrities and it was stated that they were not to be given any special treatment. The policy letter reminded us that Scientology was designed to make the able more able. LRH may well have changed this policy later on when he started being extremely interested in getting in more celebrities. LRH was very sensitive to the value of Public Relations and Promotion. Later on he developed tech in those areas and also coined the term "opinion leaders" and developed a tech concerning them, how important they are and how to obtain them for Scientology.

His basic concept was to get into their entourage as an employee or advisor and steer them to scientology oriented points of view and eventually get them to hear an intro lecture and get auditing. I read some of this stuff on my staff training courses. He was well aware that a big name such as TC or JT could reach millions of people while some upstat engineer at Boing Aircraft might be able to reach only a couple of dozen of people, he knew that a chiropractor, dentists or doctor might be able to read hundreds. IMHO, this is why the WISE group which promoted Scientology businesses, concentrated heavily on Doctors, Dentists and Chiropractors. They had a reach much greater than rank and file business people but also much less than big name celebrities. Thus celebrities had to have separate centers created for them or celebrity enclaves within an org if there was no celebrity center in a particular region.

Now Yvonne Jentzsch was a natural when it came to dealing with celebrities. Even with non celebrities, which term applied to the large majority of her staff, she had a knack for making people feel important. Just a word or two from Yvonne, passing in the hall, could make a person happy and make them feel important for an entire day or more. This I know with certainty because I witness it for 3 years done on a daily basis to other staff members and not only that but it worked many times when she did it to me. If Yvonne came by one day and out of nowhere told a letter registrar that she was writing the most "theta" letters on the planet, that person would be floating on cloud 9 for days or even weeks. People thought that she was all knowing and when she lavished praise on them, they believde her and they rose to new heights of achievment as a result.
Lakey

In closing, Yvonne knew how to handled celebrities. She treated everyone like a celebrity but the real celebrities, she treated even better. One technique she used, was to wipe the ever present grin off of her face and look serious and talk in a soft voice to a celebrity, sort of one the sly as if only she and that celebrity were in the know on a particular topic. That was a very effective technique.

 

[Jose ( not really ) Marti]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Well i'm a former staff that worked with and was good friends with Maria Cuervo even though she barely mentions me and i do have people inside so forgive me for not using my full name as it may be conpromising.
I wanted to answer a question maria left open regarding Lisa Witt and her obvious dislike for Maria.
Envy of the new and favored ' golden child ' of the eastern U.S. plus the fact we all loved Maria as auditor and senior CS is the answer plus her being much more attractive etc. etc.
I,d say most of the staff truly felt Maria was a gift to the org and even Lisa knew this.
However 'the good die young' (or are murdered ASAP lest they do something magnificent...)
I remember Doreen and Morgan who was a great friend of mine.
Dave TRopf and Rosy were cool and sweet and much loved.
Still looking for Don Larsen..but not with good intentions. (he was the leader of the Gestapo Finance police.)
Lance Dean died recently and Fred and several of us went to his memorial.
Miami was a powerhouse. Maria was a gift.
Recently went to an event and it felt like the old days in occupied France circa 1943.
Very desperate and very gloomy.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Well i'm a former staff that worked with and was good friends with Maria Cuervo even though she barely mentions me and i do have people inside so forgive me for not using my full name as it may be conpromising.
I wanted to answer a question maria left open regarding Lisa Witt and her obvious dislike for Maria.
Envy of the new and favored ' golden child ' of the eastern U.S. plus the fact we all loved Maria as auditor and senior CS is the answer plus her being much more attractive etc. etc.
I,d say most of the staff truly felt Maria was a gift to the org and even Lisa knew this.
However 'the good die young' (or are murdered ASAP lest they do something magnificent...)
I remember Doreen and Morgan who was a great friend of mine.
Dave TRopf and Rosy were cool and sweet and much loved.
Still looking for Don Larsen..but not with good intentions. (he was the leader of the Gestapo Finance police.)
Lance Dean died recently and Fred and several of us went to his memorial.
Miami was a powerhouse. Maria was a gift.
Recently went to an event and it felt like the old days in occupied France circa 1943.
Very desperate and very gloomy.

I sometimes don't mention some people for different reasons.
Sometimes because they are alive, they might be in Scientology (I don't know), or I don't want to offend them. Or maybe I already did offend them.
I really like Fred and there are others I don't mention who I liked a lot too.


Thank you for writing and being here.

 

[Jose ( not really ) Marti]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Well this might give me away but so what? I had gone 'on mission' to VENEZUELA a few times along with my good friend Quito Blanco who was also an auditor, We had great adventures and i managed ' somehow ' not to go out 2d but Quito kept creating all sort of near-death unethical situations that i won't go into at this time.
We had a blast and did lots of auditing and sightseeing.
I loved Venezuela and Octavio Cerceau and his wife Lilian Somogy who were both brilliant and great friends.
There was great hope then and people flocked to us in droves.
On her first day in Venezuela Sue Marino almost got run over by a speeding car and we had to yank her off the street and unto an enbankment at the last second!
I was not about to report back.."hey send another reg, we lost sue."
Soon i will tell you guys about the 'biggest roach in the world' at Heriberto's house in Valencia, Ven.

 

[Lulu Belle]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Thank you for writing and being here.

Thank you for writing and being here too, honey.

I've noticed your interest and your questions have brought out really good feedback and communication from posters.

You are quite an asset, in my opinion.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Well this might give me away but so what? I had gone 'on mission' to VENEZUELA a few times along with my good friend Quito Blanco who was also an auditor, We had great adventures and i managed ' somehow ' not to go out 2d but Quito kept creating all sort of near-death unethical situations that i won't go into at this time.
We had a blast and did lots of auditing and sightseeing.
I loved Venezuela and Octavio Cerceau and his wife Lilian Somogy who were both brilliant and great friends.
There was great hope then and people flocked to us in droves.
On her first day in Venezuela Sue Marino almost got run over by a speeding car and we had to yank her off the street and unto an enbankment at the last second!
I was not about to report back.."hey send another reg, we lost sue."
Soon i will tell you guys about the 'biggest roach in the world' at Heriberto's house in Valencia, Ven.

As you know, Jose, I lived with Lily and Octi. I have stories about them that I will tell in a future installment. I have been trying to progress through the different things that happened, not necessarily perfectly. I remember Heriberto and his family. Sue Marino too. I am hanging on the edge of my chair. There are those on this forum who get upset that we had good times and adventures. The time in Venezuela was GREAT and I would never ever take back a minute of it. I love everyone I worked with there and I miss the fun times we had. I LOVE the near-death unethical situation. LOLOL. I messaged Lily on FB two years ago and she ignored my message. I thought then that she must still be in Scn since all her friends seemed to be. I did not try a second time.

Don't forget Chichita, who I also lived with.

As for those unmentioned persons...well....sometimes it is rude to talk about people in public who being alive would rather not read about themselves in third person.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Two years ago I spoke with Augie Pinto on the phone. He sounded sad and shattered. He was still very high up in Scn, forming orgs in Latin America. Around the same time I contacted Lily I contacted him. For those who don't know these people, Lily was a obstetrician/gynecologist and Chichita was a pathologist and Augie was a Miami Org Exec who helped me found Valencia org. I lived with Lily and Octi, her husband and then with Chichita. Octi was a physicist. Regretfully, I was not as successful, more than once actually, in preventing myself from near death out 2D. I should not say more. There is a story there but I don't know if the thread can handle a wild full blown affair or two (even if I left out details) so I'll stop for now on that bit.

When I spoke with Augie, he recounted that he had been poisoned. He seemed to think it was an accident. It sounded a bit far-fetched though. I listened and felt bad for him. He sounded a bit weak and confused. He didn't remember me! Like really? Finally he sort of did remember me but it's as if everything he had ever known had been wiped out by the poisoning. He did not sound like his old self although he was still an exec, still juggling a million cycles, and still forming orgs. He would have recruited me on the spot if I had been even vaguely interested. While I am open to adventure I DO NOT want to return to Scientology. So I passed and we didn't speak a second time and we did not stay friends on FB. (I think he defriended me!)

 

[Jose ( not really ) Marti]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Augi had some really odd stuff going on when i saw him about 1.5 earts ago ; he kept telling my x-2d Lesly Lozano that he "wanted a 2d with her" right in front of me and she had no idea how to respond gracefully anf kept looking ay me for an answer , but i too was baffled..
I do not think he is active or even well at all.
I think he had cancer or a stroke...maybe i AM an SP as i'm one of the few fully healthy from MM org in this area?

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Augi had some really odd stuff going on when i saw him about 1.5 earts ago ; he kept telling my x-2d Lesly Lozano that he "wanted a 2d with her" right in front of me and she had no idea how to respond gracefully anf kept looking ay me for an answer , but i too was baffled..
I do not think he is active or even well at all.
I think he had cancer or a stroke...maybe i AM an SP as i'm one of the few fully healthy from MM org in this area?

He is weird because I think when he suffered from poisoning he never recovered. It affected his memory. He sounded very feeble when i talked to him, maybe 2 years ago. And he was out of his f* mind. He did not remember the days of forming the Valencia org. He did not remember me at all until I prodded a bit. And his understanding of the fact that I was an SP was weird too. It's as if he thought that I could 'hold up my right hand and swear' that I liked Scn and that if I did that I could go off and continue forming orgs with him. I assume he was pretty high up since the number he gave me was at an org and I was patched through. So maybe he had such power to recruit me.

When I realized he did not remember me at all, after repeating my name 3x, then I knew he was lala land.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Augi had some really odd stuff going on when i saw him about 1.5 earts ago ; he kept telling my x-2d Lesly Lozano that he "wanted a 2d with her" right in front of me and she had no idea how to respond gracefully anf kept looking ay me for an answer , but i too was baffled..
I do not think he is active or even well at all.
I think he had cancer or a stroke...maybe i AM an SP as i'm one of the few fully healthy from MM org in this area?

The number of SPs is always extremely tiny. You are not an SP and never were.
I have never personally met an SP. I have met 1 very very PTS person who was borderline and still, not an SP. PTS and SP are overused terms in CoS in my opinion.
The way these terms are used by CoS it seems as if everyone is PTS and anyone can be SP very easily.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: An update from Mama in Roma

Mama sent me an update from Roma. Hey, that sentence is almost poetry: Her Ma's update:

"Yesterday morning we were in Roma (Rome, Italy -- to those in English speaking countries)

The day before, we (and several thousand of our closest friends) saw the Pope doing his opening monologue.

There is beauty everywhere.

A city that has put its mark on culture, governing, engineering, and art for thousands of years.

Photos to follow"

Lakey

 

[Gib]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The number of SPs is always extremely tiny. You are not an SP and never were.
I have never personally met an SP. I have met 1 very very PTS person who was borderline and still, not an SP. PTS and SP are overused terms in CoS in my opinion.
The way these terms are used by CoS it seems as if everyone is PTS and anyone can be SP very easily.

SP = somebody who can critically think = self determined

PTS = somebody who has the ability partially = needs to learn more about Hubbard brainwashing education. LOL

What Ron wanted were not opened minded people, but able people who could make money, hence helping the able become more able,

Hey, that's a good strategy to get money. Why fool around with the poor, they ain't got money.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

CCLA and me

I went to the CCLA as yet another attempt to get rid of the SP declare. I am not exactly sure what they said would be required. It was vague. Pretty soon I realized that what would be required was a billion year contract. I was there for maybe three months at the most. I brought my two year old with me. Most of the trip he was with me the whole time, but at some point near the end he had to go to the nursery because I was going to be in session or a handling of some sort. CCLA had been interesting. It as great to listen to a live rendition of "On the Wings of Love". At that time the singer whose name I forget was engaged or married to an CCLA staffmember or SO. But he was a celebrity. I remember seeing them go off for lunch and dinner, an hour each time, and thought to myself, really? Is this going to last? But his voice was beautiful. And it was fun going to eat lunch at the little coffee shop every day and every day seeing Lisa Marie there, eating lunch or having snacks too. I never tried to talk to her. I left her alone but after a week or more of this we did begin to nod hello.

My son only attended the nursery for about 3 days. On the third day I noticed he looked TERRIBLE. Not sick but sort of like he had been through a wringer. He had a glazed over look. I don't know why. I asked about what he had eaten, if he was sick, but never got a good answer. Right then and there I decided that I had had it. It was over. I was NOT going to let him go to the nursery ever again. He looked like death warmed over. He was pale and weak looking in a way I had NEVER seen him look. I didn't tell anyone this thought. But once I had it I realized I would never be joining the SO because if I were to join my son would have to live in the nursery. And if he were to live there, it would NOT be healthy for him.

Since it was dinner time I went and ate with my son in tow. Then we went up to our room. We had been given a high floor. The window had to be kept shut thought because it had NO BAR and no screen. A child standing in that window would fall and die. There was nothing there to prevent it. So each day, for the months I was there, I had to carefully monitor that window. Make sure it was locked. Make sure my son could not fall over or open it. From the window I could see some nice roses growing even though everything was quite dry. They wanted me to work at CCLA I assume to audit or c/s. Now I was standing in that room looking at my two suitcases and wondering how to leave right now, this very second. My son's appearance was that alarming. I had seen him sick, as all children get. He had NEVER EVER looked THIS way.

I then walked downstairs and looked around. There were guards at every entrance and I guess after a certain hour of the night no one is supposed to go outside! (I asked if I could take a walk and I was told after such and such an hour, no.)

I then came back up with my son and noticed that every single hallway on every single floor, plus the elevator areas all had security cameras! Every single move I made was watched. The building was closed for the night. How was I to get out. As I went back to the elevator I noticed that there were construction noises. This was around 1987 or so. I read somewhere there was construction. Not sure if it was this construction but there was a lot of construction happening on the basement floor. I went down on the elevator and peeked. An entire outside wall was MISSING!!!

The workers were not watching that opening! I went back to the room with my son, packed a minimal number of items that could fit in my over the shoulder bag. If stopped it would only seem I was taking a walk. Since I was not a paid pc there was little chance I would have any withhold pulled on a meter. I did not fill that bag. I put only what I needed to get to the airport and then home. I abandoned almost all of my belongings. It was the only way to be able to leave the building and claim I was going for a walk.

I got on the elevator with my son. We went to the basement floor and walked out through the area where the outside wall was missing. It was a nice clear night. The construction crew paid no attention to me. We walked to a small convenience store down the street, forget the name. I told the man that I just "left Scn" and asked him if I could use the phone, hide in the back. He was extremely helpful, knew exactly what was going on, and gave us some free food from his store, free use of the phone to make a long-distance call, and then he hid us in the back area in case anyone should come looking for us. He called me a cab to the airport.

The cab came and took me to the airport where we waited to leave. I was very nervous the entire time. Finally when the plane took off I was able to relax. That was the last time I had anything to do with the Church.

When I saw the way my son had been 'cared' for I knew that this was a terrible place for him and for me. I never returned and I never underwent a "handling" again.