The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[lkwdblds]

Re: CCLA and me

I went to the CCLA as yet another attempt to get rid of the SP declare. I am not exactly sure what they said would be required. It was vague. Pretty soon I realized that what would be required was a billion year contract. I was there for maybe three months at the most. I brought my two year old with me. Most of the trip he was with me the whole time, but at some point near the end he had to go to the nursery because I was going to be in session or a handling of some sort. CCLA had been interested. It as great to listen to a live rendition of "On the Wings of Love". At that time the singer whose name I forget was engaged or married to an CCLA staffmember or SO. But he was a celebrity. I remember seeing them go off for lunch and dinner, an hour each time, and thought to myself, really? Is this going to last? But his voice was beautiful. And it was fun going to eat lunch at the little coffee shop every day and every day seeing Lisa Marie there, eating lunch or having snacks too. I never tried to talk to her. I left her alone but after a week or more of this we did begin to nod hello.

My son only attended the nursery for about 3 days. On the third day I noticed he looked TERRIBLE. Not sick but sort of like he had been through a wringer. He had a glazed over look. I don't know why. I asked about what he had eaten, if he was sick, but never got a good answer. Right then and there I decided that I had had it. It was over. I was NOT going to let him go to the nursery ever again. He looked like death warmed over. He was pale and weak looking in a way I had NEVER seen him look. I didn't tell anyone this thought. But once I had it I realized I would never be joining the SO because if I were to join my son would have to live in the nursery. And if he were to live there, it would NOT be healthy for him.

Since it was dinner time I went and ate with my son in tow. Then we went up to our room. We had been given a high floor. The window had to be kept shut thought because it had NO BAR and no screen. A child standing in that window would fall and die. There was nothing there to prevent it. So each day, for the months I was there, I had to carefully monitor that window. Make sure it was locked. Make sure my son could not fall over or open it. From the window I could see some nice roses growing even though everything was quite dry. They wanted me to work at CCLA I assume to audit or c/s. Now I was standing in that room looking at my two suitcases and wondering how to leave right now, this very second. My son's appearance was that alarming. I had seen him sick, as all children get. He had NEVER EVER looked THIS way.

I then walked downstairs and looked around. There were guards at every entrance and I guess after a certain hour of the night no one is supposed to go outside! (I asked if I could take a walk and I was told after such and such an hour, no.)

I then came back up with my son and noticed that every single hallway on every single floor, plus the elevator areas all had security cameras! Every single move I made was watched. The building was closed for the night. How was I to get out. As I went back to the elevator I noticed that there were construction noises. This was around 1987 or so. I read somewhere there was construction. Not sure if it was this construction but there was a lot of construction happening on the basement floor. I went down on the elevator and peeked. An entire outside wall was MISSING!!!

The workers were not watching that opening! I went back to the room with my son, packed a minimal number of items that could fit in my over the shoulder bag. If stopped it would only seem I was taking a walk. Since I was not a paid pc there was little chance I would have any withhold pulled on a meter. I did not fill that bag. I put only what I needed to get to the airport and then home. I abandoned almost all of my belongings. It was the only way to be able to leave the building and claim I was going for a walk.

I got on the elevator with my son. We went to the basement floor and walked out through the area where the outside wall was missing. It was a nice clear night. The construction crew paid no attention to me. We walked to a small convenience store down the street, forget the name. I told the man that I just "left Scn" and asked him if I could use the phone, hide in the back. He was extremely helpful, knew exactly what was going on, and gave us some free food from his store, free use of the phone to make a long-distance call, and then he hid us in the back area in case anyone should come looking for us. He called me a cab to the airport.

The cab came and took me to the airport where we waited to leave. I was very nervous the entire time. Finally when the plane took off I was able to relax. That was the last time I had anything to do with the Church.

When I saw the way my son had been 'cared' for I knew that this was a terrible place for him and for me. I never returned and I never underwent a "handling" again.

Exciting story. the closing scene is so exciting that it could be featured in a movie. You were lucky you got out relatively early. The lucky part was that you heard about the construction and then found a wall open to the street. Also, you were alert and skilled in perceiving that something very bad must have happened to your son and then deciding to check out the construction area to see if it would afford you a way to leave. If you would have stayed, you would have for all practical purposes lost your son for good. Reading from other ex Sea Org members on this and other websites, and reading from books such as Jena Miscavige's book, had you remained on as an S.O. auditor, you would have ended up seeing your son maybe once or twice a year for a short visit each time.

I like to try and reconstruct what might have happened in situations which I know very little about. I have a little technique where I place myself in a frame of mind where I ask what happened and just allow concepts to flow into my mind. Dealing with your son, I assume that you, by far the main adult in life, were always extremely kind and tender with him. If he needed something or was unhappy you soothed him. Also, and this would be important here, any other adults which entered his space would also be attentive to his needs as well as be kind and helpful.

Now imagine he goes to nursery with a lot of kids and a nursery which is understaffed, maybe just one or two nanny's there to handle 30 or 40 kids. Either he see something he wants and tries to get a nanny up to get it for him or he has a need to eat or to pee, etc and he goes to one of the nannies and attempts to get serviced. Remember now that his reality is that all adults are nice but instead of being attentive to him, the nanny yells at him, "Can't you see I'm busy?" he cries and maybe she then slaps him on the wrist. The other possible scenario would be if a bigger kid took something from him and he started crying. The Nanny comes over and not knowing what has happened, she tell's to stop crying but he cries louder and so she slaps his behind. The bottom line was that stable datum in his universe was yanked out from under him.

My analysis and $1.95 would get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks; in other words, my analysis is worthless, but it is fun to try and figure sych things out. The bottom line is that he was lucky enough to have you as a Mom and you protected him!! It's quite amazing that we both left COS directly from CCLA and for the same reason, they were abusing one of our kids!!
Lakey

 

[Terril park]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The number of SPs is always extremely tiny. You are not an SP and never were.
I have never personally met an SP. I have met 1 very very PTS person who was borderline and still, not an SP. PTS and SP are overused terms in CoS in my opinion.
The way these terms are used by CoS it seems as if everyone is PTS and anyone can be SP very easily.

Met one. She damaged our prospects and I predicted she would
look to putting a petrol bomb through our letterbox. She asked a
friend how to do this but never finished the cycle of action.

The other I met on line, Virginia McClaughrey. Perma banned
I believe.

I consider "SPs" as very rare. However I also know I'm naturally
adept at not relating to those unpleasant. There thus may have been others and we passed like ships in the night.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: CCLA and me

The things that crossed my mind were: physical or sexual abuse, shaking, hitting etc., yelling, neglecting to feed or change diapers, and other things I might not have thought of. I never signed the SO contract and I was not leaning toward doing it anyway, but my son's condition accelerated my immediate departure.

I knew better than to push the complaining about my son, or to tell anyone I wanted to route out. I realized that this was my own responsibility, my action to take, no one else's opinions were of relevance. In the end I was legally responsible for my child's welfare and being his mother I wanted him to be safe and well. So when I took the decision to leave I also decided not to discuss it. Of course not sure who I would have told. When I got him back it was between five and six p.m. We ate. We went upstairs. Since he was in poor condition, suddenly I was unhappy and noticed, for the first time in weeks, the security cameras. And also the security guards at the entrance. As soon as I realized I was a rat in a cage, the only person I trusted was myself. To protect my child I had to do what was needed and so I moved quickly.

I am positive that if anyone had shown up at the airport they would have failed in getting me to return to CCLA. I was 1000% convinced I had made the right decision.

Exciting story. the closing scene is so exciting that it could be featured in a movie. You were lucky you got out relatively early. The lucky part was that you heard about the construction and then found a wall open to the street. Also, you were alert and skilled in perceiving that something very bad must have happened to your son and then deciding to check out the construction area to see if it would afford you a way to leave. If you would have stayed, you would have for all practical purposes lost your son for good. Reading from other ex Sea Org members on this and other websites, and reading from books such as Jena Miscavige's book, had you remained on as an S.O. auditor, you would have ended up seeing your son maybe once or twice a year for a short visit each time.

I like to try and reconstruct what might have happened in situations which I know very little about. I have a little technique where I place myself in a frame of mind where I ask what happened and just allow concepts to flow into my mind. Dealing with your son, I assume that you, by far the main adult in life, were always extremely kind and tender with him. If he needed something or was unhappy you soothed him. Also, and this would be important here, any other adults which entered his space would also be attentive to his needs as well as be kind and helpful.

Now imagine he goes to nursery with a lot of kids and a nursery which is understaffed, maybe just one or two nanny's there to handle 30 or 40 kids. Either he see something he wants and tries to get a nanny up to get it for him or he has a need to eat or to pee, etc and he goes to one of the nannies and attempts to get serviced. Remember now that his reality is that all adults are nice but instead of being attentive to him, the nanny yells at him, "Can't you see I'm busy?" he cries and maybe she then slaps him on the wrist. The other possible scenario would be if a bigger kid took something from him and he started crying. The Nanny comes over and not knowing what has happened, she tell's to stop crying but he cries louder and so she slaps his behind. The bottom line was that stable datum in his universe was yanked out from under him.

My analysis and $1.95 would get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks; in other words, my analysis is worthless, but it is fun to try and figure sych things out. The bottom line is that he was lucky enough to have you as a Mom and you protected him!! It's quite amazing that we both left COS directly from CCLA and for the same reason, they were abusing one of our kids!!
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: CCLA and me

The things that crossed my mind were: physical or sexual abuse, shaking, hitting etc., yelling, neglecting to feed or change diapers, and other things I might not have thought of. I never signed the SO contract and I was not leaning toward doing it anyway, but my son's condition accelerated my immediate departure.

I knew better than to push the complaining about my son, or to tell anyone I wanted to route out. I realized that this was my own responsibility, my action to take, no one else's opinions were of relevance. In the end I was legally responsible for my child's welfare and being his mother I wanted him to be safe and well. So when I took the decision to leave I also decided not to discuss it. Of course not sure who I would have told. When I got him back it was between five and six p.m. We ate. We went upstairs. Since he was in poor condition, suddenly I was unhappy and noticed, for the first time in weeks, the security cameras. And also the security guards at the entrance. As soon as I realized I was a rat in a cage, the only person I trusted was myself. To protect my child I had to do what was needed and so I moved quickly.

I am positive that if anyone had shown up at the airport they would have failed in getting me to return to CCLA. I was 1000% convinced I had made the right decision.

All of your thoughts and actions seem very sane and rational as does the fact that you were able to execute you and your son's escape without any hitches. I am curious about one thing. When you and your son ate and he had been back in your hands for a time, did he start to look and feel better or did he continue to remain in the same state as when you picked him up?
Lakey

 

[Gib]

Re: CCLA and me

The things that crossed my mind were: physical or sexual abuse, shaking, hitting etc., yelling, neglecting to feed or change diapers, and other things I might not have thought of. I never signed the SO contract and I was not leaning toward doing it anyway, but my son's condition accelerated my immediate departure.

I knew better than to push the complaining about my son, or to tell anyone I wanted to route out. I realized that this was my own responsibility, my action to take, no one else's opinions were of relevance. In the end I was legally responsible for my child's welfare and being his mother I wanted him to be safe and well. So when I took the decision to leave I also decided not to discuss it. Of course not sure who I would have told. When I got him back it was between five and six p.m. We ate. We went upstairs. Since he was in poor condition, suddenly I was unhappy and noticed, for the first time in weeks, the security cameras. And also the security guards at the entrance. As soon as I realized I was a rat in a cage, the only person I trusted was myself. To protect my child I had to do what was needed and so I moved quickly.

I am positive that if anyone had shown up at the airport they would have failed in getting me to return to CCLA. I was 1000% convinced I had made the right decision.

The time you were leaving, I was just arriving into the scientology scene, after having read dianetics in 1987. A few short years later, filled with much drama, also known as "make it go right",

why I joined the SO. Made it thru the Welcome to the SO tapes, and then started the next step, I can't remember for sure, I think something to do with Ethics. I lasted a few weeks, saw SO peeps running around in black jumper suits, I was like WTF is this, I was pretty confused, and said to myself after being in that environment, something is not right,

so I blew. Instead of going to lunch, I grabbed a few things, and walk out the back door, to the train station, this being in LA. I too was looking over my shoulder, did I escape?

Being a former Class 4 org member, I knew the policies, I did not want to do the stupid sec checks, I knew I had no overts or withholds, it just wasn't right in my mind at the time, the SO.

One of my bunkies was Peter Schless in the SO berthing. I got to know him just a little, he said he was a honorary SO member, a muscian. But I had no idea who he was, nor cared, he was just another bunky.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: CCLA and me

The time you were leaving, I was just arriving into the scientology scene, after having read dianetics in 1987. A few short years later, filled with much drama, also known as "make it go right",

why I joined the SO. Made it thru the Welcome to the SO tapes, and then started the next step, I can't remember for sure, I think something to do with Ethics. I lasted a few weeks, saw SO peeps running around in black jumper suits, I was like WTF is this, I was pretty confused, and said to myself after being in that environment, something is not right,

so I blew. Instead of going to lunch, I grabbed a few things, and walk out the back door, to the train station, this being in LA. I too was looking over my shoulder, did I escape?

Being a former Class 4 org member, I knew the policies, I did not want to do the stupid sec checks, I knew I had no overts or withholds, it just wasn't right in my mind at the time, the SO.

One of my bunkies was Peter Schless in the SO berthing. I got to know him just a little, he said he was a honorary SO member, a muscian. But I had no idea who he was, nor cared, he was just another bunky.

Interesting story! Congratulations on being able to spot that something wasn't right very early into your experience. Your ability to sense that something was very wrong early on saved you a lot of pain, suffering, degradation and money further down the road. Take a well done on being so perceptive!
Lakey

 

[Gib]

Re: CCLA and me

Interesting story! Congratulations on being able to spot that something wasn't ready very early into your experience. Your ability to sense that something was very wrong early on saved you a lot of pain, suffering, degradation and money further down the road. Take a well done on being so perceptive!
Lakey

I appreciate that Lakey,

but not really, as I highlight in red, there is much pain, suffering, degradation and money further down the road.

for I had read everything available to a public person prior to joining the SO.

So, you see, I was thoroughly persuaded by Hubbard prior to my joining the SO.

I just saw the SO life not for me. But, when I blew, I thought I would be declared a SP, but I knew I had the secrets to the universe in my mind from reading Hubbard, and all I needed to do was the A-E steps to get back in good standing. For I knew the policies.

And once me life mellowed out, why I called the SO to say what do I need to do to continue on up the Bridge?

Mind you, this is in early 1990's.

and thus a whole new drama enfolds.

I was a true believer of the tech, but not the organization, you might say.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: CCLA and me

All of your thoughts and actions seem very sane and rational as does the fact that you were able to execute you and your son's escape without any hitches. I am curious about one thing. When you and your son ate and he had been back in your hands for a time, did he start to look and feel better or did he continue to remain in the same state as when you picked him up?
Lakey

he remained a bit dull glazed over...but he was so grateful to be with me....and as the night progressed he slowly perked up.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: CCLA and me

I appreciate that Lakey,

but not really, as I highlight in red, there is much pain, suffering, degradation and money further down the road.

for I had read everything available to a public person prior to joining the SO.

So, you see, I was thoroughly persuaded by Hubbard prior to my joining the SO.

I just saw the SO life not for me. But, when I blew, I thought I would be declared a SP, but I knew I had the secrets to the universe in my mind from reading Hubbard, and all I needed to do was the A-E steps to get back in good standing. For I knew the policies.

And once me life mellowed out, why I called the SO to say what do I need to do to continue on up the Bridge?

Mind you, this is in early 1990's.

and thus a whole new drama enfolds.

I was a true believer of the tech, but not the organization, you might say.[/QUOTE ]


I was that way for a long time. Believed in the correct tech. Ron said we have the correct tech. That part was DONE. Except that DM said later after correcting the correct tech that we now have the correct tech. Chicken or the egg. Was Ron the originator of the tech, was it correct, or, was DM the genius who originated a tech of control based on Ron's. Was it ever about correctness or was it about control. Control of us, control of comm, control of money.

I have come to see that there never was a correct tech. there was a control tech. And that control changed hands, tightened and if correctly applied ruins lives.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I picked up my morning newspaper today and was shocked to see a picture on page one who I thought was Karen De La Cariere. It turned out that it was the singer, Charo. I think there is quite a resemblance between the two women. This is not a dig or to pole fun at Karen, because Charo is a very attractive woman, so to say Karen looks similar to her is a compliment and not a dig. Anyway here is a link to some Charo photos. See if you agree:

https://www.google.com/search?q=cha....com%2Fevent%2F413223-charo-annapolis;410;410

Lakey
P.S. - Karen, if you are offended by this comparison, just let me know and I will immediately take down the post.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I think Charo is cute. I didn't know Karen was here.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

OT III as the structure of the CoS

I had an idea this morning that the OT/BT paradigm mirrors the structure of the Church.

According to the paradigm, one soul or being tends to be in control of a body although a bunch of other beings are there clinging to some sort of plebian existence in the factory of the body, working their shifts, toeing the line (often not too well) even as the head Thetan continues to run and own the body.

The head Thetan then decides that some BT or another is causing a problem, not being efficient and carrying out the functions the head Thetan decrees or not fitting in to the head Thetan's vision of what the body should be. So the head Thetan removes the BT, sends them away to nowhere so they can pick daisies or float around in the gulags of space, the void. The head being, an OT, controls the body, controls the BT, gets rid of all the BTs that get in the way, and sees the body as his own private fiefdom as far as the eye can see. The 'causativeness' of BTs is only improved or helped by the head Thetan so they can improve his body. BTs are not made more causative for their own sake. After all they are only allowed to live and work in the body by the decree of the head Thetan.

The church views itself as the head Thetan of all us little BTs. And it gets rid of all of us, handles us, extracts from us whatever use value it can but never think that there is progress for a BT. A BT always was and always will be a serf. And of course there are no bad feelings. We should not take it personally! It's all just for stats, to make things to go right. It is all very practical really! Why does anyone complain? It's all just business as usual.

There have been lots of practical dictators (evil head Thetans) in world history. A dictator often has a view of the world, an ideology, a standard tech which he applies to others. The standard tech is just the ideology, the belief, the 'truth' one adopts, like for example, the nazis believed "the aryans are a superior race." That was the nazi standard tech! The correct way to define a human was to know his race. A correct human was aryan. This was how the nazis defined human beings. So. An ideology is a definition. It's what someone uses to DEFINE life. Once the definition is decreed, if anyone thinks to define life differently or otherwise, then they will be viewed as deviant from standard tech. The head Thetan and his loyal guards will view that deviant person as having a misunderstood. The next course of action is to apply the standard tech, clear the mu (get rid of the BT or else convince the confused BT to return to the standard tech, the correct definition of life.) If the BT does not conform, then they are ejected from the 'body,' eliminated. It's all very practical really. No thinking is needed since the datum or standard tech cannot be changed. The only thing left to do is to apply the tech.

The way a piece of standard tech is applied is obviously just a matter of making it go right, being practical. So once we have the datum or data that constitutes the 'standard tech' of a force (a church, a government, a dictator) then it is not hard to guess what is next. Assuming all the good little BTs don't have an MU and want to apply the standard tech (be good little citizens) then they will do the logical next thing. They will be practical and apply the tech, no matter what that means. Since most humans are practical about reality, if a person believes they know what they believe, they will act on that belief (tech) and will determine the simplest, cheapest, direct, obvious, sensible way to APPLY that 'tech.'

So yeah, the church is practical in its day-to-day barbarities. It's just applying standard tech and if it sees anything get in the way of that then it will clear MUs so that those who work for it can apply the tech too. Getting rid of MUs and getting rid of BTs that refuse to get rid of MUs is just a matter of efficiency. It has to be done (the cleansing) because otherwise the 'world' would not revolve around the truth (the datum, the standard tech). There would be disorder because more than one Thetan would be able to have a point of view.

It's all very practical and logical. I mean the Nazis were seriously logical and scientific about their implementations of their datum concerning the master race. Being Scientific or Logical does not mean being True or Good. Sciences develop around life because we need tools to get anything done. Sciences are simply practical methods to get anything done. The method will be standardized. The best ways to get a job done come to be recognized over time and repeated. Standard tech (in any field) is just a way of saying "the best method to get from a to b = c."

That phrase "there is a method to the madness" definitely applies.

Now remember how OTIII goes: all the beings that were to be dispensed with (millions upon millions) were blown up, exterminated in a fiery volcano. That is just how evil head of Thetans operate. They have to get rid of everyone else. Basically the head Thetan is a loner, a solipsist, a narcissist, a windowless monad. Everything outside himself exists only for him and as a reflection of him.

 

[lkwdblds]

What would a real honest and true self help group look like on planet Earth?

A lot of people, myself included, were taken in by Hubbard and COS and came to believe that what they were doing was a valiant and noble crusade to truly better society. As people progress through COS they usually experience some gains, perhaps real or perhaps only imagind gains. They also come in contact with many non optimum situations. Doubts begin to arise in their minda as to whether or not COS is really what it says it is or if it is something different or even the opposite of what it claims to be. In the early stages, partly since most people desperately want it to be what it says it is, they put aside the non optimum things which they are witnessing and strive even harder to promote and work to make COS better.

Some people stop right there and stay in COS for the full duration of their lives but more and more COS staff and parishioners are now walking away, disgusted with what they have seen and experienced.

These facts gave me a desire to pen an article describing what I think a valid self betterment group activity should be:

WHAT WOULD A VALID SELF HELP GROUP LOOK LIKE?
1. It could be a self betterment group, club, society, educational academy or a Church. Any of those choices would be legitimate

THE FIRST THINGS TO LOOK AT.
First, look through your own past to see if you have been involved in any such groups in your own life. When I do this, I come up with 7 items:

#1. Scouting, the Boy Scout and GIrl Scout movements, including the Cub Scouts and Brownies. These groups are non profit organizations and I believe that they have some tax write offs, and deductions to such groups may be tax deductabe. Actually, these are the closest things to ideal self help groups which I have encountered in my life.

#2. The Toastmasters - This is a club, not for profit which increases a person's ability to communicate, starting with writing your own speech on an assigned topic and then giving it to a live audience.

#3. The Unitarian Universalist Church and other Churches which are multidenominational - Of course these are churches and have 1srt amendment rights and tax advantages. Howver, unlike COS, they are low keyed, don't promote very much and only ask you to contribute what you can afford when they pass the plate around for donations.

#4 Twelve Step programs to get people off of alcohol or drugs - I don't know their corporate set ups or anything but they are non profit and must get some breaks and tax write offs.

#5 Certain sects of Buddhism, as exemplified by the Dalai Lama of the Tibetan sect.

#6 Church of Scientology non Sea Org Staff

#7 Church of Scientology - Sea Org.

I am not going to do a big write up on the last two because we all already know what they are about. Actually they are something a bit new in that while supposedly they are a religion, they have for profit corporations within their corporate structure, and in actual practice, very little religion is present in their day to day operations. They seem much more like a for profit corporation, masquerading as a religion to gain first ammendment rights for themselves and so as to not have to pay minimum wage or overtime pay to those who work for them.

What has happened over say the last 40 years is that the amount of religion present in COS has continually been shrinking while the effort to make huge profits has been on an big upswing.

Starting around 2006, COS morphed to the extent that they would rather have a parishioner pay money to purchase a building than pay money towards moving up the Bridge on either the Training or the Processing side. DM made this decision for himself personally in the mid 90's and then 10 years later rigged the organization so that all other loyal Scios would follow his lead.

SO, WITH ALL OF THE ABOVE IN MIND, WHAT WOULD A TRUE SELF HELP ACTIVITY LOOK LIKE IN TODAY'S SOCIETIES? HOW WOULD THE LEADER'S LIFE APPEAR TO OTHERS AND HOW WOULD THE LIVES OF STAFF AND FOLLOWERS APPEAR TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

The topic I have chosen here is too big for just one post so I am going to end this post soon but before ending, I want to say that the best self groups which I have seen are Scouting, 12 Step, Toastmasters and certain sects of Buddhism. With that being said, I am closing my first segment on this topic and will post the next segment soon.
Lakey

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: What would a real honest and true self help group look like on planet Earth?

Having rich publics pay for buildings solves the problem of not wanting to bother flowing anything back, not having the staff to flow it back. It's definitely a great and efficient way to transfer wealth with highest ROI. Religions often take donations without giving anything "material", like a service, back. They fund raise. They take donations. CoS moved to this model.

The problem is that often non-profits and religions DO give back. They give back love and unconditional support. If a member is down and out, they provide. In the church's use of the fundraising model there is no flow back at all. The spiritual flow is supposed to be that one felt great for being upstat and helping to contribute. This is a vague return which means that the donation itself is the return. By flowing out all this money, supposedly I have increased my own havingness and my return on the donation is that I felt upstat. This feeling only lasts until the next reg cycle.

This whole business model solves the problem of what to do with those who are done with the bridge, can't do services right now, etc. They can pay for CoS real estate without the bother of sharing title on the investment.

This is really kind of brilliant. The con of all cons man.

A lot of people, myself included, were taken in by Hubbard and COS and came to believe that what they were doing was a valiant and noble crusade to truly better society. As people progress through COS they usually experience some gains, perhaps real or perhaps only imagind gains. They also come in contact with many non optimum situations. Doubts begin to arise in their minda as to whether or not COS is really what it says it is or if it is something different or even the opposite of what it claims to be. In the early stages, partly since most people desperately want it to be what it says it is, they put aside the non optimum things which they are witnessing and strive even harder to prome and work to make COS better.

Some people stop right there and stay in COS for the full duration of their lives but more and more COS staff and parishioners are now walking away, disgusted with what they have seen and experienced.

These facts gave me a desire to pen an article describing what I think a valid self betterment group activity should be:

WHAT WOULD A VALID SELF HELP GROUP LOOK LIKE?
1. It could be a self betterment group, club, society, educational academy or a Church. Any of those choices would be legitimate

THE FIRST THINGS TO LOOK AT.
First, look through your own past to see if you have been involved in any such groups in your own life. When I do this, I come up with 4 items:

#1. Scouting, the Boy Scout and GIrl Scout movements, including the Cub Scouts and Brownies. These groups are non profit organizations and I believe that they have some tax write offs, and deductions to such groups may be tax deductabe. Actually, these are the closest things to ideal self help groups which I have encountered in my life.

#2. The Toastmasters - This is a club, not for profit which increases a person's ability to communicate, starting with writing your own speech on an assigned topic and then giving it to a live audience.

#3. The Unitarian Universalist Church and other Churches which are multidenominational - Of course these are churches and have 1srt amendment rights and tax advantages. Howver, unlike COS, they are low keyed, don't promote very much and only asked you to contribute what you can afford when they pass the plate around for donations.

#4 Twelve Step programs to get off of alcohol or drugs - I don't know their corporate set ups or anything but they are non profit and must get some breaks and tax write offs.

#5 Certain sects of Buddhism, as exemplified by the Dalai Lama of the Tibetan sect.

#6 Church of Scientology non Sea Org Staff

#7 Church of Scientology - Sea Org.

I am not going to do a big write up on the last two because we all already know what they are about. Actually they are something a bit new in that while supposedly they are a religion, they have for profit corporations within their corporate structure, and in actual practice, very little religion is present in their day to day operations. They seem much more like a for profit corporation, masquerading as a religion to gain first ammendment rights for themselves and so as to not have to pay minimum wage or overtime pay to those who work for them.

What has happened over say the last 40 years is that the amount of religion present in COS has continually been shrinking while the effort to make huge profits has been on an big upswing.

Starting around 2006, COS morphed to the extent that they would rather have a parishioner pay money to purchase a building than pay money to moving up the Bridege on either the Training or the Processing side. DM made this decision for himself personally in the mid 90's and then 10 years later rigged the organization so that all other loyal Scios would follow his lead.

SO, WITH ALL OF THE ABOVE IN MIND, WHAT WOULD A TRUE SELF HELP ACTIVITY LOOK LIKE IN TODAY'S SOCIETIES? HOW WOULD THE LEADER'S LIFE APPEAR TO OTHERS AND HOW WOULD THE LIVES OF STAFF AND FOLLOWERS APPEAR TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

The topic I have chosen hire is too big for just one post so I am going to end this post soon but before ending, I want to say that the best self groups which I have seen are Scouting, 12 Step, Toastmasters and certain sects of Buddhism. With that being said, I am closing my first segment on this topic and will post the next segment soon.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: What would a real honest and true self help group look like on planet Earth?

Having rich publics pay for buildings solves the problem of not wanting to bother flowing anything back, not having the staff to flow it back. It's definitely a great and efficient way to transfer wealth with highest ROI. Religions often take donations without giving anything "material", like a service, back. They fund raise. They take donations. CoS moved to this model.

The problem is that often non-profits and religions DO give back. They give back love and unconditional support. If a member is down and out, they provide. In its use of the fundraising model there is no flow back at all. The spiritual flow is supposed to be that one felt great for being upstat and helping to contribute. This is a vague return which means that the donation itself is the return. By flowing out all this money, supposedly I have increased my own havingness and my return on the donation is that I felt upstat. This feeling only lasts until the next reg cycle.

This whole business model solves the problem of what to do with those who are done with the bridge, can't do services right now, etc. They can pay for CoS real estate without the bother of sharing title on the investment.

This is really kind of brilliant. The con of all cons man.

What a an incredible post. You said it all! When you first posted here you mentioned that on the IQ test you took with COS, you scored 149. I made a comment that 149 was a very high score. You replied that probably COS's test were not standard and your score was not valid. I replied that they used standard IQ tests and git attacked fir doing that. Eventually order was restored.

Now I agree that their test were probably not standard, not because 149 is too high of a score but because I think 149 is too low of a score. After learning you background and reading your posts, I think that had you been tested properly at an accredited institution, your actual score would be higher than 149!!

Just two comments on your post. LRH grasped the concept of exchange quite well and for a time there was a sort of honeymoon period with each person where he attempted to "exchange in abundance". This seems to have been true up to but not including OT 3. At OT 3 or possibly slightly earlier he seemed to stop exchanging with us and instead attempted to dupe us. Of course his earlier writings talked about each Being being different and each Being being entitled to have his own opinions and not be evaluated for. Starting at OT 3, he evaluated for all of us and told us what items we had on our time tracks and ordered all Scientologists to run what he ordered be run.

My second comment is that DM is the con of all con men, going beyond even what LRH was doing. DM's norm or Standard Operating Procedure seems to be to exchange such that he receives money and work and the other parties do not get any exchange whatsoever, except a temporary morale booster when acknowledged for their contribution, as you point out. If not that then they get negative exchange. Per LRH's original definition, this type of exchange is called Criminal Exchange.

When one's only exchange for a huge cash award is only a certificate or a cornerstone on building then the contributor has usually been stung by a professional con artist!
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: OT III as the structure of the CoS

I had an idea this morning that the OT/BT paradigm mirrors the structure of the Church.

According to the paradigm, one soul or being tends to be in control of a body although a bunch of other beings are there clinging to some sort of plebian existence in the factory of the body, working their shifts, toeing the line (often not too well) even as the head Thetan continues to run and own the body.

In Hubbard's paradigm, these junior beings are sort of in a fog, just going through the motions of some imagined job or duty and are prone to obeying orders from the host Soul.

The head Thetan then decides that some BT or another is causing a problem, not being efficient and carrying out the functions the head Thetan decrees or not fitting in to the head Thetan's vision of what the body should be. So the head Thetan removes the BT, sends them away to nowhere so they can pick daisies or float around in the gulags of space, the void. The head being, an OT, controls the body, controls the BT, gets rid of all the BTs that get in the way, and sees the body as his own private fiefdom as far as the eye can see. the 'causativeness' of BTs is only improved or helped by the head Thetan so they can improve his body. BTs are not made more causative for their own sake. After all they are only allowed to live and work in the body by the decree of the head Thetan.

Some times, these junior beings are causing "somatics" such as pains or unwanted emotions. I think that Hubbard's take on where they went after they were removed was that where they went would be beneficial to them. They were directed back to some beginning point early on the track and from there they could be rehabilitated and pick up a body where they would be the head Being.

The church views itself as the head Thetan of all us little BTs. And it gets rid of all of us, handles us, extracts from us whatever use value it can but never think that their is progress for a BT. A BT always was and always will be a serf. And of course there are no bad feelings. We should not take it personally! It's all just for stats, to make things to go right. It is all very practical really! Why does anyone complain? It's all just business as usual.

There have been lots of practical dictators (evil head Thetans) in world history. A dictator often has a view of the world, an ideology, a standard tech which he applies to others. The standard tech is just the ideology, the belief, the 'truth' one adopts, like for example, the nazis believed "the aryans are a superior race." That was the nazi standard tech! The correct way to define a human was to know his race. A correct human was aryan. This was how the nazis defined human beings. So. An ideology is a definition. It's what someone uses to DEFINE life. Once the definition is decreed, if anyone thinks to define life differently, otherwise, then they will be viewed as deviant from standard tech. The head Thetan and his loyal guards will view that deviant person as having a misunderstood. The next course of action is to apply the standard tech, clear the mu (get rid of the BT or else convince the confused BT to return to the standard tech, the correct definition of life.) If the BT does not conform, then they are ejected from the 'body,' eliminated. It's all very practical really. No thinking is needed since the datum or standard tech cannot be changed. The only thing left to do is to apply the tech.

The way a piece of standard tech is applied is obviously just a matter of making it go right, being practical. So once we have the datum or data that constitutes the 'standard tech' of a force (a church, a government, a dictator) then it is not hard to guess what is next. Assuming all the good little BTs don't have an MU and want to apply the standard tech (be good little citizens) then they will do the logical next thing. They will be practical and apply the tech, no matter what that means. Since most humans are practical about reality, if a person believes they know what they believe, they will act on that belief (tech) and will determine the simplest, cheapest, direct, obvious, sensible way to APPLY that 'tech.'

So yeah, the church is practical in its day-to-day barbarities. It's just applying standard tech and if it sees anything get in the way of that then it will clear MUs so that those who work for it can apply the tech too. Getting rid of MUs and getting rid of BTs that refuse to get rid of MUs is just a matter of efficiency. It has to be done (the cleansing) because otherwise the 'world' would not revolve around the truth (the datum, the standard tech). There would be disorder because more than one Thetan would be able to have a point of view.

It's all very practical and logical. I mean the Nazis were seriously logical and scientific about their implementations of their datum concerning the master race. Being Scientific or Logical does not mean being True or Good. Sciences develop around life because we need tools to get anything done. Sciences are simply practical methods to get anything done. The method will be standardized. The best ways to get a job done come to be recognized over time and repeated. Standard tech (in any field) is just a way of saying "the best method to get from a to b = c."

That phrase "there is a method to the madness" definitely applies.

Now remember how OTIII goes: all the beings that were to be dispensed with (millions upon millions) were blown up, exterminated in a fiery volcano. That is just how evil head of Thetans operate. They have to get rid of everyone else. Basically the head Thetan is a loner, a solipsist, a narcissist, a windowless monad. Everything outside himself exists only for him and as a reflection of him.

Great post, absolutely fantastic! I think Nazi tech could be summed up in two or three rules as follows:

#1 - The Aryan race was the Master race.

#2a. The Slavic peoples weren't as degraded and evil as the Jews. They were needed to farm and labor for Aryans and would be allowed to live and be fed but only to do that.
#2b. The Oriental race was neutral, neither good nor bad. The Japanese were considered the Aryans of the Orient and would be left alone to run that part of the world.
#2c. Other races, such as Latinos and Blacks were fine if their territories served as places where Aryans could go for vacations, and the native peoples service the Aryans on vacation there.

#3. The Jews were considered a race, even if they didn't practice Judaism or even if they wanted to support the Nazis. The Jewish race was considered vermin, fir only to be killed off.

Your analogy where COS looked at each individual and their junior beings the way the Nazis looked at the Aryan races and its interaction with other races is very creative and very true!!

The last paragraph of your post above is really food for thought. That one paragraph sums up how dictators operate and what their standard operating tech is. As the Nazi's used to say, "Ein Volk, ein Fuhrer!" 'one people, one leader! "Der Fuhrer fuhre und wir folgen!" "The leader leads and we follow!" That is not too impressive for a nation as technically advance in science and engineering as Germany was at that time and for a nation that gave us Classical music, Beethoven, Bach, Brahms, etc and great philosophers and writers, etc.. Some madman sits in a government chair with no college education and not any training as an artisan, nor training or specialization in any field related to politics and the vast majority of citizens get on board with him and his program. It's absolutely incredible that such a thing occurred!
Lakey
P.S. See my comments in red, embedded in your text above.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I think Charo is cute. I didn't know Karen was here.

I just picked up one of the recent videos which Karen recently made for her blog on youtube. All of her videos are very informative and are professionally done since her husband is in the type of media business where he knows how to make professional class videos. Check out one of her videos and by the way, there is no denying her resemblance to Charo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYn2n-HF0jE


Lakey

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: What would a real honest and true self help group look like on planet Earth?

Actually I said that the scilon iq test said 143. So sure, I'll take 149. Or higher....although I doubt I would score that well since I can't do even basic calculus. I'd score well on the language portions and pattern matching portions but not on the calculations most likely.

I'd go back to school to take math and calculus except at this point, what would be the point? I don't really need to be able to perform complicated mathematical feats.

What a an incredible post. You said it all! When you first posted here you mentioned that on the IQ test you took with COS, you scored 149. I made a comment that 149 was a very high score. You replied that probably COS's test were not standard and your score was not valid. I replied that they used standard IQ tests and git attacked fir doing that. Eventually order was restored.

Now I agree that their test were most not be standard, not because 149 is too high of a score but because I think 149 is too low of a score. After learning you background and reading your posts, I think that had you been tested properly at an accredited institution, your actual score would be higher than 149!!

Just two comments on your post. LRH grasped the concept of exchange quite well and for a time there was a sort of honeymoon period with each person where he attempted to "exchange in abundance". This seems to have been true up to but not including OT 3. At OT 3 or possibly slightly earlier he seemed to stop exchanging with us and instead attempted to dupe us. Of course his earlier writings talked about each Being being different and each Being being entitled to have his own opinions and not be evaluated for. Starting at OT 3, he evaluated for all of us and told us what items we had on our time tracks and ordered all Scientologists to run what he ordered be run.

My second comment is that DM is the con of all con men, going beyond even what LRH was doing. DM's norm or Standard Operating Procedure seems to be to exchange such that he receives money and work and the other parties do not get any exchange whatsoever, except a temporary morale booster as you point. If not that then they get negative exchange. Per LRH's original definition, this type of exchange is called Criminal Exchange.
Lakey

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: OT III as the structure of the CoS

I liked the comments you posted in red. I laughed (LOLed) because staff ARE often going about in a fog!

I think that power of one person over others occurs because of charisma and a certain personality style. I have seen that personality style in action. It's quite impressive to see. DM has that feature in his personality. With that feature, the rest, like college or generosity or kindness are not particularly needed.

There are people who can shift others in tiny ways which corral the person to do this or that. I am only guessing that DM is that way. Now multiply it. If DM controlled only 5 people that way and each of those enforced things down the line to hundreds, then a pattern emerges.

The charisma is then institutionalized. I never understood charisma and dictators until on my own I realized that they don't at first have to be charismatic to the masses. They only need to exert that magnetism to the very few around them. Those few can then spread it as gospel, plus because some of these few have OTHER personality features such as the ability to command or invoke fear, these few can then impose the charisma and the laws and the definitions on the rest of the people.

The charisma only needs to go so far. The charisma is also a bit like being in a relationship with a smooth operator. When with that person talking, everything they say is golden. When away from them, as one goes down the line to others the cracks show.

Now generally, in my own opinion, the charismatic leader believes his own sh****. This is partly narcissistic. However, even though he believes his own s*, the charismatic leader if smart also realizes that his will needs to be imposed, that not everyone believes it. Also he often hates and uses those who he supposedly loves the most. He does know himself and knows he is an sob. It's not like he is blind in his narcissism. But he believes in himself to the extent that he wants to be on top. This doesn't mean that he does not lie. Oh yeah, he will lie and everyone will believe it and if they do not believe it they will look like they are delusional, never him. HE always comes out smelling like a rose!!!! History and facts will always be manipulated to suit him. That said, he, all by himself, knows what he is doing. But he does not care because his love, his orgasm, is basically having his own way. Do as thou wilt. Actually, DM is the PERFECT successor to Ron for exactly this reason. He is following the Crowleyian mantra all the way and in that sense he IS the perfect Scilon leader. Ron himself said that Scientology derives from Magic and can be quoted to this effect in the Philadelphia lectures I think it is. Do as thou wilt, whoever could pull that off, would be total cause. But this is secret magic. Staff and public and all the vermin BT SO cannot do as they wilt because they have to do as HE wilt. That is the secret of OT. There is only One. And it is not you.

Great post, absolutely fantastic! I think Nazi tech could be summed up in two or three rules as follows:

#1 - The Aryan race was the Master race.

#2a. The Slavic peoples weren't as degraded and evil as the Jews. They were needed to farm and labor for Aryans and would be allowed to live and be fed but only to do that.
#2b. The Oriental race was neutral, neither good nor bad. The Japanese were considered the Aryans of the Orient and would be left alone to run that part of the world.
#2c. Other races, such as Latinos and Blacks were fine if their territories served as places where Aryans could go for vacations, and the native peoples service the Aryans on vacation there.

#3. The Jews were considered a race, even if they didn't practice Judaism or even if they wanted to support the Nazis. The Jewish race was considered vermin, fir only to be killed off.

Your analogy where COS looked at each individual and their junior beings the way the Nazis looked at the Aryan races and its interaction with other races is very creative and very true!!

The last paragraph of your post above is really food for thought. That one paragraph sums up how dictators operate and what their standard operating tech is. As the Nazi's used to say, "Ein Volk, ein Fuhrer!" 'one people, one leader! "Der Fuhrer fuhre und wir folgen!" "The leader leads and we follow!" That is not too impressive for a nation as technically advance in science and engineering as Germany was at that time and for a nation that gave us Classical music, Beethoven, Bach, Brahms, etc and great philosophers and writers, etc.. Some madman sits in a government chair with no college education and not any training as an artisan, nor training or specialization in any field related to politics and the vast majority of citizens get on board with him and his program. It's absolutely incredible that such a thing occurred!
Lakey
P.S. See my comments in red, embedded in your text above.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I private messaged with Maria Cuervo about 5 days ago and she recommended that I watch a movie called "Mulholland Falls". The two biggest stars are Nick Nolte and Melanie Griffith and there are about 4 other big name acters and actresses in this 1996 film. I never saw it in 1996 and don't even remember hearing about it but I got a hold of a copy today and watched it.

Maria, felt that my persona as Lakey has something in common with the Nick Nolte character, who plays an Inspector in the Los Angeles Police Department circa, 1949. Nolte is the strong silent type, which definitely is not Lakey but when challenged or pushed, Nolte will push back hard and Lakey is known to do that. The other similarity is that Nolte's character is not really selling himself or selling anything, he is just being himself and he is basically, in his own mind, just a rank and file guy who is trying to do a decent job at what he does. He is a low key guy and has a high threshold before he blows up and starts getting nasty. This behavior trait might also be attributed to Lakey.

Nolte and his associates drive around in a brand spanking new 1949 Buick Roadmaster Convertible. What a car! Nothing even close to it in class and style is available today. Well that's not really true 100% but in some ways it is true.

There are some parallels to the L.A. Police Department and its interaction with the U.S. Military, which take place in the movie and there is an officer in the U.S.Army in the movie who possesses many of DM's traits. These two traits, plus Nolte's role and Melanie Griffin's role set up certain parallels with COS. In any case, it is a really interesting movie, quite different from run of the mill movies and is of the same genre as the moive, Chinatown. I highly recommend the movie to all.
Lakey