Maria Cuervo
Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
Yes. Apophatic. Was Pseudo Dionysius an Apophatic?
Yes. Apophatic. Was Pseudo Dionysius an Apophatic?
The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But
- Thread starter lkwdblds
- Start date
- Status
Hatshepsut
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
Yeah, but I woulda liked to have designed my own costume from all my 'own' parts. I woulda fared better without any added plates of armor strapped.
Michaelangelo ninja turtle!
I know....parts is parts. ( chicken commercial?)
... and has been since Day 1.
Yeah, but I woulda liked to have designed my own costume from all my 'own' parts. I woulda fared better without any added plates of armor strapped.
Michaelangelo ninja turtle!
I know....parts is parts. ( chicken commercial?)
Maria Cuervo
Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
Looks like he was Apothatic, although a sort of odd Pagan-NeoPlatonic-Christian one. Lol.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pseudo-dionysius-areopagite/
His version of that reminds me of this that came later - where God was defined as 'unknowing'.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cloud_of_Unknowing
Looks like he was Apothatic, although a sort of odd Pagan-NeoPlatonic-Christian one. Lol.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pseudo-dionysius-areopagite/
His version of that reminds me of this that came later - where God was defined as 'unknowing'.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cloud_of_Unknowing
lkwdblds
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
Captain Bill Robertson, (CBR), his ideas are not real to me but I sort of like and respect the man because he was a colorful character who rose to the level of a Captain in the S.O. and because he was Hubbard's go to guy for many years.
Just out of curiosity, once one signs up for this universe and takes on an identity does CBR offer the root for a being to undo all of that and get rid of that identity? Is that what CBR's level is all about? I know that one problem which is frequently mentioned whenever getting out of this universe is brought up is the obligation, either real or fancied, that it is unethical to get out just by yourself, to be ethical, so the rumor goes, you have to get others out as well. Sometimes, the others constitute only one's friends or family but more frequently it implies that everyone else trapped in this universe must be set free before you yourself can take off.
I see two ways to get out of this universe, one is to figure out how to get out of the trap and then just do that. Despite how difficult that may sound, it probably just involves deciding to leave. Once the decision is made totally and cleanly, pffffft, you will be out own your own again, if that is truly your choice. The other way would be to make this universe a paradise instead of a trap, a place where many beings want to enter without trickery or coersion as was done to trick us into getting stuck in this game in the first place.
Does CBR's tech address these type of issues?
Lakey
Captain Bill Robertson, (CBR), his ideas are not real to me but I sort of like and respect the man because he was a colorful character who rose to the level of a Captain in the S.O. and because he was Hubbard's go to guy for many years.
Just out of curiosity, once one signs up for this universe and takes on an identity does CBR offer the root for a being to undo all of that and get rid of that identity? Is that what CBR's level is all about? I know that one problem which is frequently mentioned whenever getting out of this universe is brought up is the obligation, either real or fancied, that it is unethical to get out just by yourself, to be ethical, so the rumor goes, you have to get others out as well. Sometimes, the others constitute only one's friends or family but more frequently it implies that everyone else trapped in this universe must be set free before you yourself can take off.
I see two ways to get out of this universe, one is to figure out how to get out of the trap and then just do that. Despite how difficult that may sound, it probably just involves deciding to leave. Once the decision is made totally and cleanly, pffffft, you will be out own your own again, if that is truly your choice. The other way would be to make this universe a paradise instead of a trap, a place where many beings want to enter without trickery or coersion as was done to trick us into getting stuck in this game in the first place.
Does CBR's tech address these type of issues?
Lakey
Maria Cuervo
Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
looks like a Michaelangela.
Yeah, but I woulda liked to have designed my own costume from all my 'own' parts. I woulda fared better without any added plates of armor strapped.
Michaelangelo ninja turtle!
I know....parts is parts. ( chicken commercial?)
looks like a Michaelangela.
Hatshepsut
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
From what I know there is extensive debriefing of 'hats' worn on Excalibur. He goes into who is holding or keeping one created in that role and their intentions. So Capt Bill is more into taking the org board or games matrix apart. I can't remember what' s on his Phoenix level next. He lost me with cloning and rings. He observed a lot of stuff reaching waaaaaay out there. He about fell off the limb. Games Master level is supposed to handle roles and compulsion to play. I am an armchair quarterback when it comes to RO's. I don't wanna run into ANY of those old foes he thought he was marching against. I'm much more comfortable thinking he was somewhat delusional. Still....in the back of my mind......
I have heard that everyone has to get out or you won't succeed. I picture myself escaping like the final scene in Midnight Express. Gone gone gone...heels clicking in the air.
From what I know there is extensive debriefing of 'hats' worn on Excalibur. He goes into who is holding or keeping one created in that role and their intentions. So Capt Bill is more into taking the org board or games matrix apart. I can't remember what' s on his Phoenix level next. He lost me with cloning and rings. He observed a lot of stuff reaching waaaaaay out there. He about fell off the limb. Games Master level is supposed to handle roles and compulsion to play. I am an armchair quarterback when it comes to RO's. I don't wanna run into ANY of those old foes he thought he was marching against. I'm much more comfortable thinking he was somewhat delusional. Still....in the back of my mind......
I have heard that everyone has to get out or you won't succeed. I picture myself escaping like the final scene in Midnight Express. Gone gone gone...heels clicking in the air.
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
I'm no authority on Bill's work. I did Excalibur (their OT-8) with Lone Ranger C/Sing for me. I did OT life repair by telephone with Marianne Hagen and I did LTA (which is their OT-14) out of sequence also with Marianne Hagen. That's all I have done. I'm not going to go into the reasons for all this - it just happened that way.
After Excal I should have gone onto Phoenix (their OT-9) but the level made no sense to me at all. Or rather, I felt I was compromising what seemed real to me and needed to accept what wasn't against my better instincts. Marianne went over it with me when I met her and it sort of made some sense but once she left it all looked like nonsense again.
There were a few other issues too but as the concerned certain persons I will leave it be.
So. The Ron's Org stuff I did was very very good. I loved it and I got a lot of it. At times on Excal I did have to suspend my disbelief a few times but not on anything fundamental.
How to get out of the universe? I just blew out on a realization that it was all worthless, or something like that. It lasted for several days. Music - the most unbelievable beautiful music was present while I was out. Totally spiritual music.
After that I have been at times able to sort of position myself out and to a small extent it happens.
enough.
I'm no authority on Bill's work. I did Excalibur (their OT-8) with Lone Ranger C/Sing for me. I did OT life repair by telephone with Marianne Hagen and I did LTA (which is their OT-14) out of sequence also with Marianne Hagen. That's all I have done. I'm not going to go into the reasons for all this - it just happened that way.
After Excal I should have gone onto Phoenix (their OT-9) but the level made no sense to me at all. Or rather, I felt I was compromising what seemed real to me and needed to accept what wasn't against my better instincts. Marianne went over it with me when I met her and it sort of made some sense but once she left it all looked like nonsense again.
There were a few other issues too but as the concerned certain persons I will leave it be.
So. The Ron's Org stuff I did was very very good. I loved it and I got a lot of it. At times on Excal I did have to suspend my disbelief a few times but not on anything fundamental.
How to get out of the universe? I just blew out on a realization that it was all worthless, or something like that. It lasted for several days. Music - the most unbelievable beautiful music was present while I was out. Totally spiritual music.
After that I have been at times able to sort of position myself out and to a small extent it happens.
enough.
lkwdblds
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
Scientology's upper levels are already too far out for me, especially OT 3. To go even more far out with Captain Bill's Excalibur makes no sense to me at all, even though I know nothing about CBR's tech, except what Leon and Hat's have just written. I am coming back the other way, re examining my Jewish roots and taking a look at Christianity. The 3 years I spent looking at Buddhism just prior to joining CoS, were very pleasing. I enjoyed Buddhist meditation very much and what little tech I learned there, I found to be useful. The thing that stopped me was back then, in the late 60's there was not much written about Buddhism in English. Of course, that was decades before the internet. One had to make a physical trip to the library and check out books to learn anything. All they had on Buddhism were English translations by an author named Suzuki. I tried reading that and it was the dullest, most boring text which I ever encountered. I couldn't keep my eyelids up, Suzuki's main use as I then saw it, was to put one to sleep.
When I went to my intro lecture in June of 1970, I was told that Scientology was a close cousin to Buddhism. We were told that it had similar principles to Buddhism but was written for a Western audience. I was told that in Scientology, you could attain Buddhist type enlightenment and still make money, drive a nice car and have a girl friend. Those were the magic words and as soon as I heard those words, I was ready to sign up. Having money, driving a nice car and having good sex with a caring girlfriend while all the while attaining Buddhist like enlightenment, it seemed too good to be true but I actually believed my lecturer, Seaton Thomas, and signed up immediately that night. Of course Seaton's claim was not true at all. CoS was there largely to take all of your money, you would have no money and always be heavily in debt, most people were forced to drive junker type cars but at the time, Org's were not interfering with a person's sex life. That started to occur about 10 years later, in the early 80's.
As far as there being any similarity whatsoever between CoS and Buddhism, for all intents and purposes, they have no similarities at all!
Lakey
From what I know there is extensive debriefing of 'hats' worn on Excalibur. He goes into who is holding or keeping one created in that role and their intentions. So Capt Bill is more into taking the org board or games matrix apart. I can't remember what' s on his Phoenix level next. He lost me with cloning and rings. He observed a lot of stuff reaching waaaaaay out there. He about fell off the limb. Games Master level is supposed to handle roles and compulsion to play. I am an armchair quarterback when it comes to RO's. I don't wanna run into ANY of those old foes he thought he was marching against. I'm much more comfortable thinking he was somewhat delusional. Still....in the back of my mind......
I have heard that everyone has to get out or you won't succeed. I picture myself escaping like the final scene in Midnight Express. Gone gone gone...heels clicking in the air.
Scientology's upper levels are already too far out for me, especially OT 3. To go even more far out with Captain Bill's Excalibur makes no sense to me at all, even though I know nothing about CBR's tech, except what Leon and Hat's have just written. I am coming back the other way, re examining my Jewish roots and taking a look at Christianity. The 3 years I spent looking at Buddhism just prior to joining CoS, were very pleasing. I enjoyed Buddhist meditation very much and what little tech I learned there, I found to be useful. The thing that stopped me was back then, in the late 60's there was not much written about Buddhism in English. Of course, that was decades before the internet. One had to make a physical trip to the library and check out books to learn anything. All they had on Buddhism were English translations by an author named Suzuki. I tried reading that and it was the dullest, most boring text which I ever encountered. I couldn't keep my eyelids up, Suzuki's main use as I then saw it, was to put one to sleep.
When I went to my intro lecture in June of 1970, I was told that Scientology was a close cousin to Buddhism. We were told that it had similar principles to Buddhism but was written for a Western audience. I was told that in Scientology, you could attain Buddhist type enlightenment and still make money, drive a nice car and have a girl friend. Those were the magic words and as soon as I heard those words, I was ready to sign up. Having money, driving a nice car and having good sex with a caring girlfriend while all the while attaining Buddhist like enlightenment, it seemed too good to be true but I actually believed my lecturer, Seaton Thomas, and signed up immediately that night. Of course Seaton's claim was not true at all. CoS was there largely to take all of your money, you would have no money and always be heavily in debt, most people were forced to drive junker type cars but at the time, Org's were not interfering with a person's sex life. That started to occur about 10 years later, in the early 80's.
As far as there being any similarity whatsoever between CoS and Buddhism, for all intents and purposes, they have no similarities at all!
Lakey
Churchill
Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Unusual Befellows - This is really an odd mix.
Jewish Scientologists seemingly have no problem with Farrakhan's vitriolic anti-Semitism.
Izzy Chait, the OT 8, comes to mind.
Or the CCHR's Holocaust revisionism.
Or Hubbard's scapegoating of "Jewish bankers."
Or Tom Marcellus.
Scientology falsely claims to be "compatible" with other religions, and some soft-headed religious scholars have echoed this canard, but anyone who has actually been in Scientology knows it's as false as the myth that "disconnection" does not exist.
Scientology is only compatible with one thing.
Your money.
All of it.
Jewish Scientologists seemingly have no problem with Farrakhan's vitriolic anti-Semitism.
Izzy Chait, the OT 8, comes to mind.
Or the CCHR's Holocaust revisionism.
Or Hubbard's scapegoating of "Jewish bankers."
Or Tom Marcellus.
Scientology falsely claims to be "compatible" with other religions, and some soft-headed religious scholars have echoed this canard, but anyone who has actually been in Scientology knows it's as false as the myth that "disconnection" does not exist.
Scientology is only compatible with one thing.
Your money.
All of it.
lkwdblds
Crusader
Re: Unusual Befellows - This is really an odd mix.
Originally Posted by lkwdblds View Post
Here is a capsul summary off the internet of the differences between the Nation of Islam and standard Islam. The standard beliefs of Islam are not highlighted. The Nation of Islam (NOI) beliefs are highlighted in blue.
God Allah is one, who has no partners - Wallace D. Fard came as God incarnate (God is man)
Muhammad The final prophet of Islam, no one comes after him - Elijah Muhammad is the prophet to tell about incarnation of Fard
Race All are equal regardless of color of skin, judged on behavior - The original black race of man is superior, especially to the white man: a race of "blue-eyed devils" created by the black man
Creation Allah created the universe, first humans were Adam and Eve - Black scientists created the plan which repeats every 25,000 years
Qur'an Revealed to Muhammad from God through the Angel Gabriel - Black scientists created and revealed the Bible and the Qur'an
Sharia law Sacred rules and laws of Islamic life, based on Qur'an and Sunnah Not followed, own-created such as 4-6pm meal or avoid white flour cake meals
It is this last paragraph regarding Sharia law not being followed in NOI that makes it possible for NOI to adopt Scientology practices. If NOI practiced Sharia law, C of S doctines would not be allowed and would be totally heretic.
Even without Sharia law, NOI and C of S are strange "bedfellows". How does NOI reconcile that Hubbard, the creator of C of S tech is a white man. They will not even allow a white person into NOI and yet they are going to apply the technologies of L Ron Hubbard. All kinds of fancy footwork will be required to make this incongruity dovetail with NOI belliefs! Something really weird will literally have to be cooked up to explain this away. Just think about it, NOI would be following the works of a White Man!!! That is so antipathetic to the their beliefs! NOI will have to recook the texts which they study so that any references to LRH will be removed OR MAYBE THEY MAY GENERATE SOME FANTASY SUCH THAT LRH WAS REALLY A BLACK MAN WHO UNDERWENT RECOLORIZATION BY BLACK SCIENTISTS SO THAT BLACK TEACHINGS COULD BE GIVEN TO WHITE PEOPLE AND BE ACCEPTED. It is going to have to get pretty wild to sell major portions of LRH tech to NOI members and leadership Truth is stranger than fiction. I predict some pretty weird stuff, very ad hoc in nature, will be coming down the turnpike in order to amalgamate two very different groups, NOI and C of S!!
Lakey
I DON'T RECALL EVER POSTING THAT MATERIAL ABOVE WHICH CHURCHILL ATTRIBUTES TO ME. THAT IS MOSTLY ALL NEW DATA TO ME. PERHAPS I READ SOMEBODY ELSE'S ARTICLE AND PASTE-COPIED IT BUT FOR SURE I NEVER AUTHORED THAT MYSELF. CHURCHILL, COULD YOU PLEASE GIVE ME THE DATE AND PLACE WHERE YOU SAW THAT ARTICLE POSTED. IF YOU DON'T SUPPLY THAT, I AM GOING TO FILE A COMPLAINT AGAINST YOU TO THE "MODERATOR" STATING THAT YOU ATTRIBUTED SOMETHING TO BE BY ME WHICH I NEVER WROTE.
I do have an answer for Churchill how Reverend Louis Farrakhan controls his congregation and is able to pull of something like getting his congregation to do Dianetic training and processing. Here is my response to his question as to how Reverend Farakhan is able to get away with introducing Hubbard's materials to his congregation:
Louis Farrakhan is a very smooth and persuasive speaker, he is particularly good at selling his congregation what he wants to sell them. Just look at the ease with which he quiets the rumblings in his congregation about his promoting the works of Hubbard, a white man.
You have got to admire his public speaking ability, his charisma and his mastery over his audience. If you need to sell an inherently unpopular concept to a group of your own people watch the Reverend in action and you will see how it is done:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVH997mKl_Q
Lakey
Originally Posted by lkwdblds View Post
Here is a capsul summary off the internet of the differences between the Nation of Islam and standard Islam. The standard beliefs of Islam are not highlighted. The Nation of Islam (NOI) beliefs are highlighted in blue.
God Allah is one, who has no partners - Wallace D. Fard came as God incarnate (God is man)
Muhammad The final prophet of Islam, no one comes after him - Elijah Muhammad is the prophet to tell about incarnation of Fard
Race All are equal regardless of color of skin, judged on behavior - The original black race of man is superior, especially to the white man: a race of "blue-eyed devils" created by the black man
Creation Allah created the universe, first humans were Adam and Eve - Black scientists created the plan which repeats every 25,000 years
Qur'an Revealed to Muhammad from God through the Angel Gabriel - Black scientists created and revealed the Bible and the Qur'an
Sharia law Sacred rules and laws of Islamic life, based on Qur'an and Sunnah Not followed, own-created such as 4-6pm meal or avoid white flour cake meals
It is this last paragraph regarding Sharia law not being followed in NOI that makes it possible for NOI to adopt Scientology practices. If NOI practiced Sharia law, C of S doctines would not be allowed and would be totally heretic.
Even without Sharia law, NOI and C of S are strange "bedfellows". How does NOI reconcile that Hubbard, the creator of C of S tech is a white man. They will not even allow a white person into NOI and yet they are going to apply the technologies of L Ron Hubbard. All kinds of fancy footwork will be required to make this incongruity dovetail with NOI belliefs! Something really weird will literally have to be cooked up to explain this away. Just think about it, NOI would be following the works of a White Man!!! That is so antipathetic to the their beliefs! NOI will have to recook the texts which they study so that any references to LRH will be removed OR MAYBE THEY MAY GENERATE SOME FANTASY SUCH THAT LRH WAS REALLY A BLACK MAN WHO UNDERWENT RECOLORIZATION BY BLACK SCIENTISTS SO THAT BLACK TEACHINGS COULD BE GIVEN TO WHITE PEOPLE AND BE ACCEPTED. It is going to have to get pretty wild to sell major portions of LRH tech to NOI members and leadership Truth is stranger than fiction. I predict some pretty weird stuff, very ad hoc in nature, will be coming down the turnpike in order to amalgamate two very different groups, NOI and C of S!!
Lakey
I DON'T RECALL EVER POSTING THAT MATERIAL ABOVE WHICH CHURCHILL ATTRIBUTES TO ME. THAT IS MOSTLY ALL NEW DATA TO ME. PERHAPS I READ SOMEBODY ELSE'S ARTICLE AND PASTE-COPIED IT BUT FOR SURE I NEVER AUTHORED THAT MYSELF. CHURCHILL, COULD YOU PLEASE GIVE ME THE DATE AND PLACE WHERE YOU SAW THAT ARTICLE POSTED. IF YOU DON'T SUPPLY THAT, I AM GOING TO FILE A COMPLAINT AGAINST YOU TO THE "MODERATOR" STATING THAT YOU ATTRIBUTED SOMETHING TO BE BY ME WHICH I NEVER WROTE.
I do have an answer for Churchill how Reverend Louis Farrakhan controls his congregation and is able to pull of something like getting his congregation to do Dianetic training and processing. Here is my response to his question as to how Reverend Farakhan is able to get away with introducing Hubbard's materials to his congregation:
Louis Farrakhan is a very smooth and persuasive speaker, he is particularly good at selling his congregation what he wants to sell them. Just look at the ease with which he quiets the rumblings in his congregation about his promoting the works of Hubbard, a white man.
You have got to admire his public speaking ability, his charisma and his mastery over his audience. If you need to sell an inherently unpopular concept to a group of your own people watch the Reverend in action and you will see how it is done:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVH997mKl_Q
Lakey
Last edited:
Maria Cuervo
Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Unusual Befellows - This is really an odd mix.
I watched it. He's using NLP (neurolinguistic programming) throughout.
One example at the very start:
The people there are standoffish (let's assume). His hands are folded back behind his back, non-threatening. (mimicry, stands back.)
The suggestion: I am you.
Continues the mimicry - now with a childlike tone, as if they are children.
As they buy into his one lines barrage of platitudes he gets more emphatic, builds the momentum.
Adds Sympathy: talks about having cancer.
Adds Enemy: creates a different foe - the Jewish doctors, x's on his neck.
And other things.....
I don't think his style is admirable. But, I do think he knows
how to play and manipulate a crowd,
as a control method.
Adds Ruin, massages the ruin:
We were deprived of self-knowledge, deprived of our history, culture.
The list of platitudes is too long to list out here.
Adds the Solution.
Then the discovery of Dianetics: the solution.
He says, yeah, let's exorcize our demons.
By the time he is through, auditing out the subconscious becomes
analogous to the work of Jesus excorcizing demons in the Koran.
He just slipped Dianetics into the Koran. Sleight of hand
once he had the foment at high pitch.
The puppets under his spell.
Insane leaders often have that gift to mesmerize the crowd.
I haven't commented at all on the truth of not of any of his comments.
Only on his rhetorical wizardry, the way he does it.
I watched it. He's using NLP (neurolinguistic programming) throughout.
One example at the very start:
The people there are standoffish (let's assume). His hands are folded back behind his back, non-threatening. (mimicry, stands back.)
The suggestion: I am you.
Continues the mimicry - now with a childlike tone, as if they are children.
As they buy into his one lines barrage of platitudes he gets more emphatic, builds the momentum.
Adds Sympathy: talks about having cancer.
Adds Enemy: creates a different foe - the Jewish doctors, x's on his neck.
And other things.....
I don't think his style is admirable. But, I do think he knows
how to play and manipulate a crowd,
as a control method.
Adds Ruin, massages the ruin:
We were deprived of self-knowledge, deprived of our history, culture.
The list of platitudes is too long to list out here.
Adds the Solution.
Then the discovery of Dianetics: the solution.
He says, yeah, let's exorcize our demons.
By the time he is through, auditing out the subconscious becomes
analogous to the work of Jesus excorcizing demons in the Koran.
He just slipped Dianetics into the Koran. Sleight of hand
once he had the foment at high pitch.
The puppets under his spell.
Insane leaders often have that gift to mesmerize the crowd.
I haven't commented at all on the truth of not of any of his comments.
Only on his rhetorical wizardry, the way he does it.
Maria Cuervo
Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
I have a few NLP courses via online, taken in order to just understand NLP so I can
see when it is used. I did this because at some point someone attempted hypnosis on me,
a few years back, without my permission. I decided to learn what I could
so I could recognize the cues. In such a case, one gives consent 'unknowingly'
due to empathy....so at least knowing what is happening gives one a choice
to go along or not.
A lot of times the cues are normal things. It's not that someone matches our
body language or tone and from this we can completely decide NLP is being used.
It's when a lot of different NLP cues appear together that
one might be at least alert and prevent a hypnotic suggestion.
(If one cares to.)
And I don't know if on a day to day basis all hypnotic suggestions
even can be circumvented...but it is good to be aware
and to at least decide the suggestion is
favorable for oneself, not just get carried away
by it in an undetermined way.
At this point there are 1000s of NLP variants and
I can't claim to have scratched the surface.
The cues however that can be used surreptitiously eliminates
some of those 1000s.
What is so interesting is the NLP technique of taking a negative mental image picture and its tone
and actually physically moving it to a different location of the mental map where it is defused.
That's the positive use of NLP. But of course opposition from someone else can also be defused by it.
CoS does not use NLP however, it uses brute force. I guess NLP would be squirreling for them.
Although Ron used primitive forms of it so not sure why it would be 'another practice.'
http://www.hypnosiscertified.com/
These are the courses I signed up for. The numbers after each are the number of modules in the course. These courses are video segments, to be done online, and the courses were quite inexpensive, less than 50 dollars, once I was on the mailing list and offered various 'deals'. I am still in progress watching the videos and don't care if I graduate or get certified. Only watching them to understand since these techniques are now so endemic everywhere.
Edit: Sometimes these courses go for $10 via email newsletter offer. So I didn't pay $50 for any of these, even though that is the price listed. I just waited about 30 days after signing up on the newsletter and then took the discount offers.
I have a few NLP courses via online, taken in order to just understand NLP so I can
see when it is used. I did this because at some point someone attempted hypnosis on me,
a few years back, without my permission. I decided to learn what I could
so I could recognize the cues. In such a case, one gives consent 'unknowingly'
due to empathy....so at least knowing what is happening gives one a choice
to go along or not.
A lot of times the cues are normal things. It's not that someone matches our
body language or tone and from this we can completely decide NLP is being used.
It's when a lot of different NLP cues appear together that
one might be at least alert and prevent a hypnotic suggestion.
(If one cares to.)
And I don't know if on a day to day basis all hypnotic suggestions
even can be circumvented...but it is good to be aware
and to at least decide the suggestion is
favorable for oneself, not just get carried away
by it in an undetermined way.
At this point there are 1000s of NLP variants and
I can't claim to have scratched the surface.
The cues however that can be used surreptitiously eliminates
some of those 1000s.
What is so interesting is the NLP technique of taking a negative mental image picture and its tone
and actually physically moving it to a different location of the mental map where it is defused.
That's the positive use of NLP. But of course opposition from someone else can also be defused by it.
CoS does not use NLP however, it uses brute force. I guess NLP would be squirreling for them.
Although Ron used primitive forms of it so not sure why it would be 'another practice.'
http://www.hypnosiscertified.com/
These are the courses I signed up for. The numbers after each are the number of modules in the course. These courses are video segments, to be done online, and the courses were quite inexpensive, less than 50 dollars, once I was on the mailing list and offered various 'deals'. I am still in progress watching the videos and don't care if I graduate or get certified. Only watching them to understand since these techniques are now so endemic everywhere.
- NLP Practitioner Certification (11)
- NLP Master Practitioner Certification (11)
- Basic Ericksonian Hypnosis (21)
- Advanced Ericksonian Hypnosis (19)
Edit: Sometimes these courses go for $10 via email newsletter offer. So I didn't pay $50 for any of these, even though that is the price listed. I just waited about 30 days after signing up on the newsletter and then took the discount offers.
Last edited:
Re: Unusual Befellows - This is really an odd mix.
The solution. OMG. Forget slipping Dianetics into the Koran, he's sounding like The Third Reich with the utterances of The Solution.
The solution. OMG. Forget slipping Dianetics into the Koran, he's sounding like The Third Reich with the utterances of The Solution.
Maria Cuervo
Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Unusual Befellows - This is really an odd mix.
Yes.
And since we are on the topic of The Solution, I wonder who the demons are to be 'exorcized.'
Yes.
And since we are on the topic of The Solution, I wonder who the demons are to be 'exorcized.'
Hatshepsut
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
When Anthony Robbins got into NLP his lectures describing techniques to live audiences were posted to Youtube. I was flabberghasted that the knowing intention behind the techniques was to politick the psyche by stirring associations. I scanned quickly over any times I thought that might have happened to me. My God...a lot came up! Any time your values, reasoning and sense of the proper gets overridden in favor of somebody else's explanation as to why these things don't have to be heeded anymore., and different agenda get supplanted on the sneak ...there it usually is.
When Anthony Robbins got into NLP his lectures describing techniques to live audiences were posted to Youtube. I was flabberghasted that the knowing intention behind the techniques was to politick the psyche by stirring associations. I scanned quickly over any times I thought that might have happened to me. My God...a lot came up! Any time your values, reasoning and sense of the proper gets overridden in favor of somebody else's explanation as to why these things don't have to be heeded anymore., and different agenda get supplanted on the sneak ...there it usually is.
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Maria Cuervo
Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
Mostly the seminal books on the topic are touted as groundbreaking communication skill improvement techniques.
The NOI's leader obviously has it down. Either just naturally, which some people do, or by close study.
I think that we live in a porous universe and it's impossible to avoid influence completely, and maybe not desirable to just close oneself off to others and go into a shell. It IS hard to tell sometimes what is what, but maybe being human we just have to try and do our best. One does want to be open and learn new things. Perhaps those who are strong can withstand suggestion. And those who are not holding their space well get splattered by it, follow it along. I don't really know. I did think that some of the techniques in the NLP course could be interesting in relation to what we know about Scn. (NLP predates Scn and did not borrow from it as far as I know.) The way that traumatic or charged images are moved around to different body parts or to different parts of the mind, or the way that the mood of a mental image picture can be reset to a different one, a different association.
I think that Jones was involved with Robbins somewhere along the line. I forget now. Sold most of my NLP books (but could provide a list of top ones.)
It's at least good to know some top cues, in case an NLP process is 'in progress'.
When Anthony Robbins got into NLP his lectures describing techniques to live audiences were posted to Youtube. I was flabberghasted that tge knowing intention behind tbe techniques was to politick the psyche by stirring associations. I scanned quickly over ang times I thought that might gave happened to me. My God...a lot came up. Any time your values, reasoning and sense of the proper gets overridden in favor of somebody else's explanation as to why those don't have to be heeded anymore....and different agenda get supplanted on the sneak ...there it usually is.
Mostly the seminal books on the topic are touted as groundbreaking communication skill improvement techniques.
The NOI's leader obviously has it down. Either just naturally, which some people do, or by close study.
I think that we live in a porous universe and it's impossible to avoid influence completely, and maybe not desirable to just close oneself off to others and go into a shell. It IS hard to tell sometimes what is what, but maybe being human we just have to try and do our best. One does want to be open and learn new things. Perhaps those who are strong can withstand suggestion. And those who are not holding their space well get splattered by it, follow it along. I don't really know. I did think that some of the techniques in the NLP course could be interesting in relation to what we know about Scn. (NLP predates Scn and did not borrow from it as far as I know.) The way that traumatic or charged images are moved around to different body parts or to different parts of the mind, or the way that the mood of a mental image picture can be reset to a different one, a different association.
I think that Jones was involved with Robbins somewhere along the line. I forget now. Sold most of my NLP books (but could provide a list of top ones.)
It's at least good to know some top cues, in case an NLP process is 'in progress'.
lkwdblds
Crusader
Re: Unusual Befellows - This is really an odd mix.
Whatever method he is using, my point had to do with how easy it is for him to his manipulate congregation and get them to buy into any ideas which he is selling to his flock. BTW, he was not 100% successful. a couple of high placed officials in the Nation of Islam broke away from Farrakhan and the acceptance of Hubbard's Dianetics into NOI's approved lkist of techniques.
Discussions of the method which he is using to persuade his flock to go along with him are interesting and good data to know but that is a separate subject from what I was trying to illustrate. I was simply pointing our how quickly he could get his congregation to back him up on something which at first seemed to strongly contradict the core beliefs of Nation of Isalm.
I do that the he gave accurate data in the first 4 or 5 minutes of the video when he described why it is valid for Blacks to be educated by Whites if they are just going for gaining knowledge so as to help them better there lives. He talked about his bout with cancer, and how his daughter, a nurse who studied at a white university, learned enough about medicine from white people to save Farakhan's life. That seemed like a very powerful argument and it sounded like it was 100% true.
Lakey
Whatever method he is using, my point had to do with how easy it is for him to his manipulate congregation and get them to buy into any ideas which he is selling to his flock. BTW, he was not 100% successful. a couple of high placed officials in the Nation of Islam broke away from Farrakhan and the acceptance of Hubbard's Dianetics into NOI's approved lkist of techniques.
Discussions of the method which he is using to persuade his flock to go along with him are interesting and good data to know but that is a separate subject from what I was trying to illustrate. I was simply pointing our how quickly he could get his congregation to back him up on something which at first seemed to strongly contradict the core beliefs of Nation of Isalm.
I do that the he gave accurate data in the first 4 or 5 minutes of the video when he described why it is valid for Blacks to be educated by Whites if they are just going for gaining knowledge so as to help them better there lives. He talked about his bout with cancer, and how his daughter, a nurse who studied at a white university, learned enough about medicine from white people to save Farakhan's life. That seemed like a very powerful argument and it sounded like it was 100% true.
Lakey
Hatshepsut
Crusader
Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973
There's nothing wrong with having the power to influence people. Salesmen use it as well as preachers and presidents. It is when insanity is pretended to be logically the best for all. In other words NLP is ok for the good guys but not the bad guys I guess.
That thing about moving the emotions and feelings around is interesting. I think some of that is in Deep PEAT workshop.
I often try changing the mood and signifigance of some trauma after the fact. And then sometimes I get a rude awakening when a second party pushes the point home emphatically that the tone they 'created' for the experience had a purpose. They don't want the power of their negative impression drained.
There's nothing wrong with having the power to influence people. Salesmen use it as well as preachers and presidents. It is when insanity is pretended to be logically the best for all. In other words NLP is ok for the good guys but not the bad guys I guess.
That thing about moving the emotions and feelings around is interesting. I think some of that is in Deep PEAT workshop.
I often try changing the mood and signifigance of some trauma after the fact. And then sometimes I get a rude awakening when a second party pushes the point home emphatically that the tone they 'created' for the experience had a purpose. They don't want the power of their negative impression drained.
lkwdblds
Crusader
Re: Unusual Befellows - This is really an odd mix.
I don't quite get how exorcizm got into the discussion. Farrakhan only got involved with dianetics and not scientology OT levels..
Lakey
I don't quite get how exorcizm got into the discussion. Farrakhan only got involved with dianetics and not scientology OT levels..
Lakey
lkwdblds
Crusader
Re: Unusual Befellows - This is really an odd mix.
I don't see much of the Third Reich present in Hubbard or Farrakhan.
I don't see much of the 3rd Reich type of stuff present in Hubbard's methods of operations. Only two areas where the 3rd Reich was successful and Hubbard may have emulated their tech come to mind. The first area would be Propaganda and Public Relations. including the telling acceptable truths which are actually lies, The second technique was in creating an enemy for everyone to hate and to blame for all the evils present in society.
Hitler picked the Jews as his enemy and as the cause for all evils in the world while Hubbard picked the Psychiatric profession. In the area of Propaganda, Hitler himself was a master at it, especially in his very emotional speeches. Dr. Joseph Goebbels was University trained and had a PHD in Public Relations. This guy was one of the most evil men who ever lived. It is interesting to look into his eyes while he is making a speech. The evil present in those eyes is hard to confront. Check it out on an old news reel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8Mcc2zWvGs
The clip has some good closeups of Goebbles talking start at 0:42 and going to 1:51.
Lakey
I don't see much of the Third Reich present in Hubbard or Farrakhan.
I don't see much of the 3rd Reich type of stuff present in Hubbard's methods of operations. Only two areas where the 3rd Reich was successful and Hubbard may have emulated their tech come to mind. The first area would be Propaganda and Public Relations. including the telling acceptable truths which are actually lies, The second technique was in creating an enemy for everyone to hate and to blame for all the evils present in society.
Hitler picked the Jews as his enemy and as the cause for all evils in the world while Hubbard picked the Psychiatric profession. In the area of Propaganda, Hitler himself was a master at it, especially in his very emotional speeches. Dr. Joseph Goebbels was University trained and had a PHD in Public Relations. This guy was one of the most evil men who ever lived. It is interesting to look into his eyes while he is making a speech. The evil present in those eyes is hard to confront. Check it out on an old news reel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8Mcc2zWvGs
The clip has some good closeups of Goebbles talking start at 0:42 and going to 1:51.
Lakey
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