The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[strativarius]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I don't do well on standardized tests or quizzes. My mind don't work that way.
So yeah, send me to my room now. Oops, I'm on the naughty step first.

It's OK Maria, it is I who flunked the test, not you. You can come down from the naughty step now.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

This video as well as what you just said above, Maria, reminds me of something about CoS management tech. Note, I am not trying to pour water on a happy parade; I'm just trying to make a connection and make a point. The Lucy and Ethel video plus what you wrote above, Maria, reminds me of Hubbard's policy stating that every single task needs to be quantified and have a statistic assigned to it and each statistic must go up every single week to keep one in a state of normal operation.

I believe that piece of Hubbard's tech is incorrect. If he had said that the trend had to be upwards and that dips were going to occur on a week to week basis, I would have gone along with that. Actually he did say those things as well but what got practiced in CoS was that stats had to go up every single week. If not a person would be assigned Emergency and would lose their day off and any bonus money they might earn the next week. This was and still is a very destructive policy!! Lucy and Ethyl had a job they could handle and they were handling it successfully. As the speed was increased on their conveyor belt, not they nor anyone else could have continued to do the job. LRH knew this would be the case but put that principle into place anyway!

Eventually, all people will fail at a job when faced with a conveyor built which speeds up without a limit. The video shows that in a graphic and entertaining way. The policy should be modified but it can't be, per policy unless Hubbard comes back and does it himself. So there it is, I said it and now let's return to the happiness of the music.
Lakey

Quantification for me is only important at work, so the boss knows it is done and done well. But often overused. Weekly stats are just stupid. [exception: where second to second Intel is needed. But that is not a stat; its information.] And outside of work quantification is just the ugly date.

What you did not mention is that Hubbard wanted to quantify every dynamic. What an absolute bore he was.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The A = something other than 440 was the way conductors tuned their orchestra to the hall by ear in the days before ubiquitous EQ. MrNobody is exactly right in that it matters little except locally and the important thing is for everyone to be in tune. I was watching a video by a guitar teacher named Scott Groves who insisted we were all tuning our guitars wrong. He gave instruction on how to tune using a chromatic tuner by continuing to strike the low strings as you tune rathering to let the note decay, as they go flat as they decay. Then (and this was the shocker) he said to fret the G# on the third string and tune it 15 cents flat. I tried it his way and then struck a chord. Wowfuckingwow. Soooooo pretty and full. I don't really understand it but it has to do with the inherent scale length problems on thick vs thin strings.

You know, all the technical comments are irrelevant. This is a matter of opinion. Some people feel that 432 HZ music penetrates more deeply to a person's inner core, I am one of them. That's my opinion, no one is going to change that. Quite a few people agree with me and that is why a tremendous amount of music is recorded in 432 HZ. Still, the majority sticks with the 440 HZ and when asked to listen, they can't tell the difference.

I and some others hear a big difference, you and MrNobody hear no difference. Why not just allow those of us who feel a difference to enjoy ourselves. Maybe we are deluding ourselves but we are not hurting anybody else or trying to convert anyone to what we like. I'm saying, hey, listen to this, I like it better. Try it and see if you notice a difference. That's all I am doing. I just don't think that being attacked for having an opinion on something not really that important merits such vehement and negative response. I'm not hurting you SPsince1983, continue listening to 440 HZ, enjoy it, tell others 432 HZ is a scam. Fine, the problem is that it is up to each listener to listen to both and make their choice. They are not out any money nor are they inconvenienced in any way if they listen to 432 Hz music. That is not exactly a scam since no one is being hurt and no one is making profits at the expense of cheating others.

There is a school of cooking where any food cooked over 117 degrees Fahrenheit is considered to lose nutritional value. They have a restaurant in the City of Costa Mesa with that name, "117 degrees". Their food is organic, non GMO and tasty and they claim that it is much healthier than standard restaurant food. They do charge more, however, maybe as much as 25% higher than an average restaurant. They are packed most of the time and you need to make reservations. Even so, it is a small operation, only one store. Many people refuse to pay any premium for their food and cooking method and won't eat there. Others prefer to pay the premium and wait in line to eat there. There is no right or wrong to such a situation. Those who want such food go there all the time and those who aren't willing to pay any premium just don't eat there. If you don't like 432 HZ music more power to you, don't listen to it and tell others that it is really no different in sound than 440 music. More power to you but no one has to agree with you, it is okay in this world to have a different opinion.

With that being said, here is the Beatles, Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds in 432 HZ. For those who can tell the difference, enjoy the performance for those who don't, enjoy your day!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZud871LGYQ

Lakey

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

It's OK Maria, it is I who flunked the test, not you. You can come down from the naughty step now.

I'll have to think about that, strat.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The words " I LOVE YOU "!

Well, " I love you " has an amazing capacity to even exceed regular expression in any language - particularly when the person it is said to feels that love !

Such an incredible emotion !

Ain't love grand ?

There was the Love Boat.

Could this beloved thread become the thread of love?

The Love Ship Apollo ?

Don't know about that...

i read so many English Victorian novels as a child that all I know to do is attempt a little soirée [the kind with crustless sandwiches] here on Apollo. And hope not to cause *too* much disorder.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

After Mick Taylor left the music went to shit for me. And I was and remain a huge fan of pre-76 Stones. To me, Ron Wood's best work was and always will be as bassist for Jeff Beck. The tapes of the Steel Wheels tour in 89 were pretty outstanding, though. I saw the Stones at Winterland on the Exile tour. Probably the best straight ahead rock and roll show I ever saw. But Stevie Wonder opened and they gave him 40 minutes. If he had had a full hour, the Stones would never have been able to follow. He was AWESOME. The beginning of HIS great period from Innervisions to Songs in the Key of Life and he was just incredible.

I think Bill Wyman is on record as saying that if it hadn't been for Ron Wood. the Stones wouldn't have stayed together for so long at all; Wood was the calming influence who enabled Jagger and Richards to keep on working together without their often fractious egos colliding and ruining it all.

It's worth remembering that after Mick Taylor left the band in late 1974, they had the pick of technically competent guitarists from pretty much everywhere and even Eric Clapton auditioned for them (Beck was the exception in that he turned them down), and they still chose Woody.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Quantification for me is only important at work, so the boss knows it is done and done well. But often overused. Weekly stats are just stupid. [exception: where second to second Intel is needed. But that is not a stat; its information.] And outside of work quantification is just the ugly date.

What you did not mention is that Hubbard wanted to quantify every dynamic. What an absolute bore he was.

I think we have good agreement here Maria, I also think that weekly stats are an unnecessary and a potentially damaging part of Hubbard Management Tech. All businesses should keep track of some sort of states. Most business track stats on a quarter by quarter basis with a quarter being 3 months, one quarter of a year. These businesses also have long range goals and intermediate range goals. Hubbard's system is designed around week to week goals. I do not think that method of managing a business is workable. For one thing, it creates a ton of unnecessary administrative work and for another, it ensures that almost all employees will frequently be in a lower condition even though they are doing an excellent job.

Also, in Hubbard's system, the only person who ever worked on long range goals is Hubbard himself and when he passed on, DM took over that hat. Essentially, with only a Dictator type of person working on medium range or long range goals, you have a Dictatorship and that is what CoS has always been, a dictatorship, ever since they incorporated in 1954. The corporate directors, except for LRH and later on DM, have no actual power or say in running the dictatorship and their are no stockholders.

Yes, there is a lot more I could have said but I did not want to get into a big tirade against Hubbard's stat system. Yes, Hubbard tech has two major drills which concern the 8 dynamics and those drills involve establishing a "condition" for each dynamic and that definitely requires quantification of each dynamic.

We have "Conditions by Dynamic" and "Exchange by Dynamic". I hate to admit it but I have to be honest. I've done both of these drills several times in my long scio career. At the time I did them I felt that they were helpful to me. Later on, in early 2010 I met someone who is now a friend of mine who said that they had created these techniques and gave them to Hubbard as a gift.

That is all I wanted to say on CoS's stat system at this time. I just wanted to let Maria know that I agree with her on the weekly stat system and stats in general!
Lakey

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I think we have good agreement here Maria, I also think that weekly stats are an unnecessary and potentially damaging part of Hubbard Management Tech. All businesses should keep track of some sort of states. Most business track stats on a quarter by quarter basis with a quarter being 3 months, one quarter of a year. These businesses also have long range goals and intermediate range goals. Hubbard's system is designed around week to week goals. I do not think that method of managing a business is workable. For one thing, it creates a ton of unnecessary work and for another, it ensures that almost all employees will frequently be in a lower condition even though they are doing an excellent job.

Also, in Hubbard's system, the only person who ever worked on long range goals is Hubbard himself and when he passed on, DM took over that hat. Essentially, with only a Dictator type of person working on medium term or long term goals, you have a Dictatorship and that is what CoS is, it has always been a dictatorship ever since they incorporated in 1954.

Yes, there is a lot more I could have said but I did not want to get into a big tirade against Hubbard's stat system. Yes, Hubbard tech has two major drills which concern the 8 dynamics and those drills involve establishing a "condition" for each dynamic and that definitely requires quantification of each dynamic.

We have "Conditions by Dynamic" and "Exchange by Dynamic". I hate to admit it but I have to be honest. I've done both of these drills several times in my long scio career. At the time I did them I felt that they were helpful to me. Later on, in early 2010 I met someone who is now a friend of mine who said that they had created these techniques and gave them to Hubbard as a gift.

That is all I wanted to say on CoS's stat system at this time. I just wanted to let Maria know that I agree with her on the weekly stat system and stats in general!
Lakey

Conditions are a bane. Ugh. My Scieno husband applied them to me. All that did was produce my derision. So happy he's history. But I did write of that in my very early posts, Feb. or March. Hubbard probably was impotent, which is why he thought that sort of thing could be saddled on all dynamics. Time to throw tomatoes at the sop.

Stats: a work of art may be priceless; definitely a work of art is never a stat.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

There is a school of cooking where any food cooked over 117 degrees Fahrenheit is considered to lose nutritional value. They have a restaurant in the City of Costa Mesa with that name, "117 degrees". Their food is organic, non GMO and tasty and they claim that it is much healthier than standard restaurant food. They do charge more, however, maybe as much as 25% higher than an average restaurant. They are packed most of the time and you need to make reservations. Even so, it is a small operation, only one store. Many people refuse to pay any premium for their food and cooking method and won't eat there. Others prefer to pay the premium and wait in line to eat there. There is no right or wrong to such a situation. Those who want such food go there all the time and those who aren't willing to pay any premium just don't eat there.

Lakey

Interesting Lakey, I hadn't heard of this before. I presume the reason they charge a premium for food cooked at that temperature is that it takes longer?

On the subject of unusual cooking methods, would you like to eat food cooked in the heat of a dormant volcano? Some people do, it seems;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/t...es-VOLCANO-cook-food-450-degrees-Celsius.html

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Two things I won't do is hold cans or apply ANY conditions. Ever. What an UGLY life view [for me].

 

[strativarius]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I think Bill Wyman is on record as saying that if it hadn't been for Ron Wood. the Stones wouldn't have stayed together for so long at all; Wood was the calming influence who enabled Jagger and Richards to keep on working together without their often fractious egos colliding and ruining it all.

It's worth remembering that after Mick Taylor left the band in late 1974, they had the pick of technically competent guitarists from pretty much everywhere and even Eric Clapton auditioned for them (Beck was the exception in that he turned them down), and they still chose Woody.

I've not assiduously studied every phase of the relationship between Mick and Keith, but I just got the feeling back in the eighties when Mick went on a big 'healthy lifestyle' kick, it made old Keith look all the more debauched and depraved what with his drug-taking and all.

Then there was the knighthood. Jagger says Richards was simply jealous, but I firmly believe Richards would have told them where they can stick it and believed that's what Jagger should have done.

Jagger apparently shagged Pallenberg during the filming of 'Performance', so that probably didn't help.

Richards has referred to Jagger as being 'unbearable' and their relationship has been strained for decades, and didn't I read somewhere he said Jagger had a tiny dick?

 

[SPsince83]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I think Bill Wyman is on record as saying that if it hadn't been for Ron Wood. the Stones wouldn't have stayed together for so long at all; Wood was the calming influence who enabled Jagger and Richards to keep on working together without their often fractious egos colliding and ruining it all.

It's worth remembering that after Mick Taylor left the band in late 1974, they had the pick of technically competent guitarists from pretty much everywhere and even Eric Clapton auditioned for them (Beck was the exception in that he turned them down), and they still chose Woody.

Ron is reputed to be a pretty good guy personally, so I believe that could well be true that he kept the Glimmer Twins from killing each other. I do, however think the music speaks for itself. I'll take 1968-1974 Stones first, 1964-1967 second and aside from the Steel Wheels live recordings I never liked much of the Wood-fired stones music. I never liked Some Girls much when it was the hottest thing and I gave it a re-listen recently and liked it even less. Matter of taste, certainly, but as sole arbiter of all things good musically I am the self appointed source of all truth. So there

 

[Gizmo]

Can I get an invite too ?

I don't do well on standardized tests or quizzes. My mind don't work that way.
So yeah, send me to my room now. Oops, I'm on the naughty step first.

More love needs to be spread 'round these parts !

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

For anyone interested, here is my dinner tonight....
I posted the recipe in the appropriate place.

"Tortellini with Spinach Sauce"

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?39696-Tortellini-and-Spinach-Sauce&p=1041646#post1041646

Wine is mandatory. Cheers.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Ron is reputed to be a pretty good guy personally, so I believe that could well be true that he kept the Glimmer Twins from killing each other. I do, however think the music speaks for itself. I'll take 1968-1974 Stones first, 1964-1967 second and aside from the Steel Wheels live recordings I never liked much of the Wood-fired stones music. I never liked Some Girls much when it was the hottest thing and I gave it a re-listen recently and liked it even less. Matter of taste, certainly, but as sole arbiter of all things good musically I am the self appointed source of all truth. So there

TBH, musically I agree. As I said I have a soft spot for "Emotional Rescue" (and one or two other later tracks like "Start Me Up" and "Fool To Cry"), but on the whole I think their best work was when you described.

 

[Gizmo]

Can we get a vote ?

I think ... I also think .... For one thing
Also,.... Essentially...
Yes, there is a lot more I could have said . Yes, ....

We have .... I have to be honest. ... I've done... . I felt ...

That is all I wanted to say..... I just wanted ...
Lakey

I think without a doubt that this poster qualifies to be nominated the most verbose poster ever !

 

[SPsince83]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

You know, all the technical comments are irrelevant. This is a matter of opinion. Some people feel that 432 HZ music penetrates more deeply to a person's inner core, I am one of them. That's my opinion, no one is going to change that. Quite a few people agree with me and that is why a tremendous amount of music is recorded in 432 HZ. Still, the majority sticks with the 440 HZ and when asked to listen, they can't tell the difference.

I and some others hear a big difference, you and MrNobody hear no difference. Why not just allow those of us who feel a difference to enjoy ourselves. Maybe we are deluding ourselves but we are not hurting anybody else or trying to convert anyone to what we like. I'm saying, hey, listen to this, I like it better. Try it and see if you notice a difference. That's all I am doing. I just don't think that being attacked for having an opinion on something not really that important merits such vehement and negative response. I'm not hurting you SPsince1983, continue listening to 440 HZ, enjoy it, tell others 432 HZ is a scam. Fine, the problem is that it is up to each listener to listen to both and make their choice. They are not out any money nor are they inconvenienced in any way if they listen to 432 Hz music. That is not exactly a scam since no one is being hurt and no one is making profits at the expense of cheating others.

There is a school of cooking where any food cooked over 117 degrees Fahrenheit is considered to lose nutritional value. They have a restaurant in the City of Costa Mesa with that name, "117 degrees". Their food is organic, non GMO and tasty and they claim that it is much healthier than standard restaurant food. They do charge more, however, maybe as much as 25% higher than an average restaurant. They are packed most of the time and you need to make reservations. Even so, it is a small operation, only one store. Many people refuse to pay any premium for their food and cooking method and won't eat there. Others prefer to pay the premium and wait in line to eat there. There is no right or wrong to such a situation. Those who want such food go there all the time and those who aren't willing to pay any premium just don't eat there. If you don't like 432 HZ music more power to you, don't listen to it and tell others that it is really no different in sound than 440 music. More power to you but no one has to agree with you, it is okay in this world to have a different opinion.

With that being said, here is the Beatles, Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds in 432 HZ. For those who can tell the difference, enjoy the performance for those who don't, enjoy your day!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZud871LGYQ

Lakey

I'm not really weighing in on the esthetics of 432. I didn't even read that section of thread, I was just commenting on the last post. I did listen to the Beatles thing, but I don't know how you can really judge with MP3 or any other compressed file and I'm kind of with Neil Young on the bad algorithm at the root of digital music. You simply don't hear it quite correctly in any digital medium. Maybe Pono, but I haven't tried that yet. If you can find an analog recording of Beethoven's 9th by Karl Boehm and the Vienna Philharmonic (my personal favorite recording of the piece) and listen to it with an audiophile system of at least Fisher or MacIntosh quality I promise you won't care if the orchestra is 2 cents flat or dead on as long as they are in tune. But you are free to like what you like. I grant you absolution in this matter.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I love the unconditional life [no conditions applied]. Nature, love, experience, creativity, and simply being there. I can't handle extra tasks.....lol.

 

[SPsince83]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

TBH, musically I agree. As I said I have a soft spot for "Emotional Rescue" (and one or two other later tracks like "Start Me Up" and "Fool To Cry"), but on the whole I think their best work was when you described.

I saw The Tubes do "Start Me Up" at a free show in Union Square in SF back in 82. Prairie Prince came out from behind the drums, took off his shirt and started the Jagger strut. It was musically perfect (The Tubes could ALL play their asses off) and absolutely hilarious.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: Can we get a vote ?

I think without a doubt that this poster qualifies to be nominated the most verbose poster ever !

He is sincere and that does count.