The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[MrNobody]

Re: Another - our experiences differed.

Reminds me of one of the most beautiful cars ever and perhaps the most revolutionary

The NSU RO 80.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TMgo7DfT9o

Yo, the RO 80 was a damn sexy vehicle, but the Rotary Piston Engine (or whatever it's called in English) technology was damn new, damn failure-prone and never gained any significant traction on the market, AFAIK - which is kinda sad, because that surely was an interesting vehicle.

EDIT:
Oh, there was another vehicle which used that engine technology, I believe it was a Herkules motorbike, but I'm not certain about that one.

EDIT2:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_engine

EDIT3:

Oh, here's the Herkules I was thinking of:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hercules_W_2000 (German Wikipedia link)

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

The Ro80 was years ahead of its time and even twenty years on Audi produced a model (the Audi 80) based on the same aerodynamic shape.

Sadly the engine was prone to failure because the rotary blades couldn't take the stresses they were subjected to in operation. Modern metals technology has largely eliminated this problem, but too late to save the NSU car company which was bankrupted by all the warranty claims it occurred from the Ro80.

[EDIT: I was close but not quite accurate, according to what Wikipedia says on the subject;

"The car developed an early reputation for unreliability. The Ro80 engine in particular suffered from construction faults, among many other problems, and some early cars required a rebuilt engine before 30,000 miles (50,000 km), with problems visible as early as 24,000 kilometres (15,000 miles). The three-piece rotor tip seals were made out of the same material. The design fault caused the center section to have higher abrasion at cold starts than the corner pieces and the tip seals could push together, allowing the gas to blow past. With a changed tip seal design this was temporarily solved and with a tip seal center piece made of Ferrotic, the problem was entirely resolved. The fact that the rotary engine design was inherently thirsty (typically 13-16 l/100 km) and a poor understanding of the Wankel engine by dealers and mechanics did not help this situation. By the 1970 model year, most of the reliabity issues had been resolved, but a necessarily generous warranty policy and damage to the car's reputation had undermined NSU's financial situation irreparably. NSU was acquired by Volkswagen in 1969, and merged with Auto Union to create the modern day Audi company as it is known today."]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSU_Ro_80#Unreliability

The Mazda RX-7 and RX-8 use the same engine technology, as did the Suzuki RE5 and Van Veen OCR 1000 motorbikes. There was another bike which also did and whose name escapes me (DKW?).

 

[MrNobody]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

<snip> NSU was acquired by Volkswagen in 1969, and merged with Auto Union to create the modern day Audi company as it is known today."]<snip>

As far as the Audi history and related histories go, you might also want to take a look at the Horch article I've previously posted. I believe it gives the more accurate picture.

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: Another - our experiences differed.

Reminds me of one of the most beautiful cars ever and perhaps the most revolutionary

The NSU RO 80.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TMgo7DfT9o

Great post Terril!
I forgot all about NSU of Germany, located in South East Germany in the town of Neckarsulm near Stuttgart. They came to the USA with all the other German car companies I mentioned in 1959, featuring the NSU Prinz, a tiny two cylinder runabout,

I did not remember anything at all about the company except that they also made motorcycles. I just looked them up on the internet. I guess their greatest claim to fame was that they were the first to develop the Wankel rotary engine, of which the model you showed was the last rotary engined model made by the company.

They had a catchy byline for the NSU Prinz for those who like the German language, "Fahre Prinz und Du bist Konig!" "Travel Prinz and you are King!". The rotary engine concept is outstanding, a real engineering marvel. Mazda picked up the copyrightts on it and in the early 70's began making their R Series. GM saw it as the future as did American motors.

When the gasoline crisis hit the US in 1974, my first year out of the S.O., that spelled the death of the rotary engine. One of the drawbacks of the rotary engine was that it consumed more gas than it's piston engined counterparts. When the gas crisis hit in 1974, gas prices went from around 30 cents a gallon to 50 cents a gallon and to get gas, people had to wait in lines for up to an hour. This horrible state of affairs lasted about a month the first time but it happened more than once, as I recall, we had gas lines about 4 times in So. Cal.

Of all the auto makers, Mazda took the biggest hit. They had thousand of Mazda rotary engine cars stockpiled at the docks in San Pedro, CA. Overnight, the car went from a hot ticket item to a pariah. Mazda was a small company and took a huge hit. GM regrouped and killed their rotary program just before the engines were scheduled to go into production. Poor American Moters, they had just designed their revolutionarly styled AMC Pacer and it had a low hood line because AMC had made a deal with GM to buy Rotary Engines from GM to use in the Pacer.

AMC had to rework the Pacer hood line and put their own in house 4 cylinder engines into the cars and as a result, the Pacer sold well for only one year and then totally flopped.

Here is a classic video on the first Mazda Rotary sports car of 1970 carried out at Jay Leno's garage. Jay takes this amazing car for a test drive starting at 6:00 into the video. The rotary engine rotates up to 10,000 rpm so it is really a screamer, making a loud but pleasant noise when it is revved up. Jay says the Rotary engine was huge on horsepower but weak on torque. The extremely high rpm's must occur to make up for the low torque. Check it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms5Zws6CXFs

Getting back to NSU, the Prinz was too small to succeed in the states and the company was too small to promote the car. I believe they were quite successful with their motorcycle line here in the states for several years. NSU got picked up by Volkswagen around 1970 as did Auto Union. VW added NSU to the Auto Union group of cars and did away with the NSU brand.
Lakey

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

As far as the Audi history and related histories go, you might also want to take a look at the Horch article I've previously posted. I believe it gives the more accurate picture.

Thanks, I will.

So you've helped restore a Horch Phaeton? Well done!

As you know, Volkswagen used the name "Phaeton" for its luxury saloon in the early 2000s, but it didn't sell well in Europe because not enough people wanted to pay its asking price for a Volkswagen (badge prestige counting for a lot at that end of the market), even though on its merits it competed very well with the Mercedes S-class and BMW 7-series of the time.

Maybe the VW group should have revived the Horch brand as well for that model, just as Mercedes rervived Maybach.

[EDIT; it's still going, apparently the Chinese and South Koreans like it;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Phaeton]

 

[MrNobody]

Re: Another - our experiences differed.

Great post Terril!
I forgot all about NSU of Germany, located in South East Germany in the town of Neckarsulm near Stuttgart. They came to the USA with all the other German car companies I mentioned, featuring the NSU Prinz, a tiny two cylinder runabout,

I did not remember anything at all about the company except that they also made motorcycles. I just looked them up on the internet. I guess their greatest claim to fame was that they were the first to develop the Wankel rotary engine, of which the model you showed was the last rotary engined model made by the company.

They had a catchy byline for the NSU Prinz for those who like the German language, "Fahre Prinz, sei ein Konig!" "Travel Prinz and you're a King!". The rotary engine concept is outstanding a real engineering marvel. Mazda picked up the copyright on it and in the early 70's began making their R Series. GM saw it as the future as did American motors.

When the gasoline crisis hit the US in 1974, my first year out of the S.O., that spelled the death of the rotary engine. One of the drawbacks of the rotary engine was that it consumed more gas than it's piston engined counterpart. When the gas crisis hit in 1974, gas prices went from around 30 cents a gallon to 50 cents a gallon but to get gas, people had to wait in lines for up to an hour. This horrible state of affairs lasted about a month the first time but it happened more than once, as I recall, we had gas lines about 4 times in So. Cal.

Of all the auto makers, Mazda took the biggest hit. The had thousand of Mazda rotary engine cars down at the docks in San Pedro, CA and overnight, the car went from a hot item to a pariah. Mazda was a small company and took a huge hit. GM regrouped and killed their rotary program just before the engines were scheduled to go into production. Poor American Moters, they had just designed their revolutionary styled AMC Pacer and it had a low hood line because AMC had made a deal with GM to buy Rotary Engines from GM to use in the Pacer.

AMC had to rework the Pacer and put their own in house 4 cylinder engine in the car and as a result, the Paceer was a flop/

Here is a classic video on the first Mazda Rotary sports car of 1970 carried out at Jay Leno's garage. Jay takes this amazing car for a test drive starting at 6:00 into the video. The rotary engine rotates up to 10,000 rpm so it is really a screamer, making a loud but pleasant noise when it is revved up. Jay says the Rotary engine was huge on horsepower but weak on torque. The extremely high rpm's must occur to make up for the low torque. Check it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms5Zws6CXFs

Getting back to NSU, the Prinz was too small to succeed in the states and the company was too small to promote the car. I believe they were quite successful with their motorcycle line here in the states for several years. NSU got picked up by Volkswagen around 1970 as did Auto Union. VW added NSU to the Auto Union group of cars and did away with the NSU brand.
Lakey

Well, most NSU cars were quite small, even for German standards, but some of their motorbikes were legendary. After my Yamaha RD50 became too expensive for me, I settled for an NSU Quickly for a while - a nice and sturdy, almost antique at that time, little moped with a 50 ccm 2-stroke engine. I've always had an eye on my friend's father's big NSU Max, which had a 500 ccm 4-stroke engine and a side car. I would have loved to restore that thing and bring it back on the road, but the father didn't want to sell it. So that poor, lonely motorbike still sits in someone's shed only collecting dust.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: Another - our experiences differed.

That mazda is nice.

I say, have one of each, in perfect condition, all in a row. Let the cars live in a better house than the people.
LOL.

Great post Terril!
I forgot all about NSU of Germany, located in South East Germany in the town of Neckarsulm near Stuttgart. They came to the USA with all the other German car companies I mentioned in 1959, featuring the NSU Prinz, a tiny two cylinder runabout,

I did not remember anything at all about the company except that they also made motorcycles. I just looked them up on the internet. I guess their greatest claim to fame was that they were the first to develop the Wankel rotary engine, of which the model you showed was the last rotary engined model made by the company.

They had a catchy byline for the NSU Prinz for those who like the German language, "Fahre Prinz und Du bist Konig!" "Travel Prinz and you are King!". The rotary engine concept is outstanding, a real engineering marvel. Mazda picked up the copyrightts on it and in the early 70's began making their R Series. GM saw it as the future as did American motors.

When the gasoline crisis hit the US in 1974, my first year out of the S.O., that spelled the death of the rotary engine. One of the drawbacks of the rotary engine was that it consumed more gas than it's piston engined counterparts. When the gas crisis hit in 1974, gas prices went from around 30 cents a gallon to 50 cents a gallon and to get gas, people had to wait in lines for up to an hour. This horrible state of affairs lasted about a month the first time but it happened more than once, as I recall, we had gas lines about 4 times in So. Cal.

Of all the auto makers, Mazda took the biggest hit. They had thousand of Mazda rotary engine cars stockpiled at the docks in San Pedro, CA. Overnight, the car went from a hot ticket item to a pariah. Mazda was a small company and took a huge hit. GM regrouped and killed their rotary program just before the engines were scheduled to go into production. Poor American Moters, they had just designed their revolutionarly styled AMC Pacer and it had a low hood line because AMC had made a deal with GM to buy Rotary Engines from GM to use in the Pacer.

AMC had to rework the Pacer hood line and put their own in house 4 cylinder engines into the cars and as a result, the Pacer sold well for only one year and then totally flopped.

Here is a classic video on the first Mazda Rotary sports car of 1970 carried out at Jay Leno's garage. Jay takes this amazing car for a test drive starting at 6:00 into the video. The rotary engine rotates up to 10,000 rpm so it is really a screamer, making a loud but pleasant noise when it is revved up. Jay says the Rotary engine was huge on horsepower but weak on torque. The extremely high rpm's must occur to make up for the low torque. Check it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms5Zws6CXFs

Getting back to NSU, the Prinz was too small to succeed in the states and the company was too small to promote the car. I believe they were quite successful with their motorcycle line here in the states for several years. NSU got picked up by Volkswagen around 1970 as did Auto Union. VW added NSU to the Auto Union group of cars and did away with the NSU brand.
Lakey

 

[Gizmo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Tech retraining, psychos, disconnection and conspiracy theories ... oh my!
Tech retraining, psychos, disconnection and conspiracy theories ... oh my!
Tech retraining, psychos, disconnection and conspiracy theories ... oh my!
Tech retraining, psychos, disconnection and conspiracy theories ... oh my!
Tech retraining, psychos, disconnection and conspiracy theories ... oh my!

Cult-think, it's artificial senile dementia. Cringe.

​

Once again we see you can get a fellow out of scientology but you can't scientology out of the fellow !

Yes, some are going to run around here with their little tone scale chart, disconnection policy, stats & all that clap trap - they are amusing.

Those people are going to cling to the rightness of scientology until their dying breath.

It was Voltaire who said " God spare me from the righteousness of a zealot ".

And a scientologist is a zealot.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Once again we see you can get a fellow out of scientology but you can't scientology out of the fellow !

Yes, some are going to run around here with their little tone scale chart, disconnection policy, stats & all that clap trap - they are amusing.

Those people are going to cling to the rightness of scientology until their dying breath.

It was Voltaire who said " God spare me from the righteousness of a zealot ".

And a scientologist is a zealot.

Yes, FBM is certainly a zealot. Thanks for pointing out.

I mean that because so angry and attacking other exes, CO2.
He wrote that CO2 was in the video but that was not CO2 in the video.
Unless CO2 really is OT and shape-shifted into John Carmichael.

 

[Gizmo]

Time to move

I found a new thread called

" The New Advance "

over in the " General Discussion " section

Think I'm going to go hang & post there & have some fun. Come join !

I'm so ready to leave this one for the life long scientologist keep spewing the teck in hopes of some getting some win.

I'll prollv have to come stir the pot here once in awhile

 

[Gizmo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Yes, FBM is certainly a zealot. Thanks for pointing out.

I mean that because so angry and attacking other exes.

Lakey is the zealot.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: Time to move

Giz, we just spent about 2 days talking cars, sex (you contributed there!), and music. How is that discussing wins and Scn?


If anything we will be accused of being 'woggie' here and then we will be accused of doing it on purpose as a way to get people off criticizing Scn. When really all that is happening is that I for one lost interest in Scn and like to bring up other things as well, not just ex stuff.

You are fun. Please don't walk out on the rest of us just because we lack the humor.

I found a new thread called

" The New Advance "

over in the " General Discussion " section

Think I'm going to go hang & post there & have some fun. Come join !

I'm so ready to leave this one for the life long scientologist keep spewing the teck in hopes of some getting some win.

I'll prollv have to come stir the pot here once in awhile

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Also, I don't see what Lakey did to cause anyone's wrath. Unlike me he is probably using some tech still, or at least in his mind, goes to it. There are other posters that do too.

Can't each person just make their own way out of Scn or are there rules about that? Who sets those rules?

I don't see why this particular thread suddenly became a war zone or threatens to. But I am not going to join in any mud slinging.

If someone here wants to argue with me or among ourselves about tech or CoS, please, have at it on any topic. But name calling doesn't work.

 

[MrNobody]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Thanks, I will.

So you've helped restore a Horch Phaeton? Well done!

Yes, I did. After I've been unhappy with my restoration work on my own first 3 cars, I had decided to go find some people who really know their handcraft. Fortunately, I found these two elderly guys who had been in the car restoration business all their life. I was so happy when they accepted me for their assistant! So they let me hammer sheet metal in shape for a few weeks, and then, one day, they took the blanket off of their biggest baby: The Horch Phaeton! Working in their garage has always felt like performing religious service in a temple, but when they took that blanket off, it was like seeing god. And then, not only being allowed to touch it, but really working on it, felt like being in heaven. I stayed with these guys for a year or so, working for no money, but for a lot of knowledge and experience.

I learned so much from these guys. So later, when I was finished with the fourth one of my own, microscopic in comparison, restoration projects, the end result was a whole different class of quality work.

As you know, Volkswagen used the name "Phaeton" for its luxury saloon in the early 2000s, but it didn't sell well in Europe because not enough people wanted to pay its asking price for a Volkswagen (badge prestige counting for a lot at that end of the market), even though on its merits it competed very well with the Mercedes S-class and BMW 7-series of the time.

Maybe the VW group should have revived the Horch brand as well for that model, just as Mercedes rervived Maybach.

[EDIT; it's still going, apparently the Chinese and South Koreans like it;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Phaeton]

I find the VW Phaeton a hollow, pretentious attempt to rise up and join the class of Rolls Royce and Bentley, and I think that attempt can only fail, no matter how good their car is.

No, VW (the brand) should remain what it was in their better times: Manufacturer of good, durable, affordable cars for the masses.

Speaking of a real upper-class car: Just 2 weeks ago, my driver and I came to halt at a crossing, right behind a classic car we both couldn't identify. We could only see the impressive, mega-professional handcraftsmanship. So when traffic allowed us to move on, we waited a few extra seconds to get a good look at the side of the car. As soon as we could see it's side, it was all clear: A Morgan! A fucking Morgan! Now that was a first in our neck of the woods!

http://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I am writing my own little bit of this thread, and various thoughts/lies/ideas about it. What I am writing is based on only three months here on the forum, so admittedly not definitive and definitely limited thus flawed in several ways. But in spite of that perhaps some tiny bit of it will be of interest anyway.

Be back soon.

 

[Leland]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Yes, I did. After I've been unhappy with my restoration work on my own first 3 cars, I had decided to go find some people who really know their handcraft. Fortunately, I found these two elderly guys who had been in the car restoration business all their life. I was so happy when they accepted me for their assistant! So they let me hammer sheet metal in shape for a few weeks, and then, one day, they took the blanket off of their biggest baby: The Horch Phaeton! Working in their garage has always felt like performing religious service in a temple, but when they took that blanket off, it was like seeing god. And then, not only being allowed to touch it, but really working on it, felt like being in heaven. I stayed with these guys for a year or so, working for no money, but for a lot of knowledge and experience.

I learned so much from these guys. So later, when I was finished with the fourth one of my own, microscopic in comparison, restoration projects, the end result was a whole different class of quality work.



I find the VW Phaeton a hollow, pretentious attempt to rise up and join the class of Rolls Royce and Bentley, and I think that attempt can only fail, no matter how good their car is.

No, VW (the brand) should remain what it was in their better times: Manufacturer of good, durable, affordable cars for the masses.

Speaking of a real upper-class car: Just 2 weeks ago, my driver and I came to halt at a crossing, right behind a classic car we both couldn't identify. We could only see the impressive, mega-professional handcraftsmanship. So when traffic allowed us to move on, we waited a few extra seconds to get a good look at the side of the car. As soon as we could see it's side, it was all clear: A Morgan! A fucking Morgan! Now that was a first in our neck of the woods!

http://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/

I've always liked the Morgans.

They are now the oldest car production company in England....I believe.

 

[MrNobody]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I've always liked the Morgans.

They are now the oldest car production company in England....I believe.

I don't know whether they are the oldest company, but they are certainly one of the best, regarding handcraft. In German vocational schools teaching car-related handcrafts, educational movies from Morgan manufactures are shown.

 

[Maria Cuervo]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Ways of the Apollo Thread, a tiny analysis, a list of assumptions by one who does not like to make lists, oh yes,
A little psyop spoof manual......

I will format this (sort of) as St. Thomas used to format his ontological discussions of God.

Accusation: It is fluffy and theetie-wheetie and woggy on purpose, just the way CoS likes it because that means no one is criticizing Scn or at least it's criticism lite.
Answer: that is too general an accusation since there could be other reasons it is fluffy and fun. Even if it is that way on purpose, Maybe the purpose is just because the visitors are cool. Please rephrase.

Accusation: Ok, it is fluffy and theetie-wheetie and woggy by accident, but still that is just the way CoS likes it because they sure wish they could control it more and all you fluffy ducks are not helping things and are about as limp-wristed as can be.
Answer: Sure, they try that, to gain control over posters by upsetting and confusing everyone now and again and by attacking thread regulars. But that is true on ALL threads and all parts of esmb. It's true often the posters here do not seem to be fighting much of a fight. But why does degree of fighting and being an ass relate to the # of stars I get. Who is the star master and how did he or she get appointed as to the correct way to be an ex? Please take me to the star master!

Accusation: Regardless of if its on purpose or not, it doesn't help the cause of fighting CoS to run such a sloppy ship.
Answer: Well many of us are old timers, plus retired, and leave the wars to those not currently on social security. Why does everyone have to be caught up in dramas and fights. Is simply being calm and interested in sexy cars and the beach boys and something other than CoS automatically a sign one IS CoS. It seems very confusing!

Accusation: It's a highly visited thread and this means CoS wants/needs to control 'the ship' or at least steer it. By being such a drunken ship you all just make it easy for them.
Answer: Even if that seems likely, that they will try to steer the ship while we are off drinking at our party, by having fun talking about being an ex, opinions ab. being an ex, science, news, cars, sports, sex, and music or whatever else comes up, so what. Are we supposed to feel guilty every second of life? Isn't that sort of guilt what CoS loves? Everyone feeling out-ethics and needs to follow the leader type of thinking? So sorry if we are so blind at the moment and don't care to join the guilt trip. Probably they just hope that if a bad enough upset could take place, like say Lakey used an ad hominem on someone, had a meltdown in which he called another names, that would be one quick way to close down the thread! They like technicalities, I am aware. Now please, pass the pinot noir and come back when you are in a better mood.

Accusation: It's a highly visited thread and CoS already owns some of the posters. So here you go feeding into them and don't even know it.
Answer: I am sure they do that and that they try to create squirmishes in order to a) find out what side a poster is on b) push a poster to change their allegiances from one poster to another poster more favorable to their psyop c) find out who the friends are of a poster d) befriend a poster to get more information. So what exactly do you propose I do to ferret this out? I have here a ruler, a magnifying glass and a calculator. I doubt any of those tools will be of assistance.

As is clear above, I barely scratched the surface and this can go on forever and ever, accusations and answers and back and forth.


Now. Let's get back to having fun!

 

[SPsince83]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

I don't know whether they are the oldest company, but they are certainly one of the best, regarding handcraft. In German vocational schools teaching car-related handcrafts, educational movies from Morgan manufactures are shown.

Morgan and TVR are two of the coolest Brit rides ever. Not as widely appreciated as they should be

 

[Leland]

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Morgan and TVR are two of the coolest Brit rides ever. Not as widely appreciated as they should be

Yes! The older TVRs were amazing....

When younger, there was a TVR Griffin....that tooled around my town.