Marty Rathbun raises his head, and starts squawking

[Karen#1]

Good morning. Lovely to see you here.

Two words.

Tax-exemption.

The tax-exemption status is vitally important to the cult and not just for the obvious reasons that come to mind. Not just for monetary reasons.

Tax exemption is the legal status that holds the cult together. What is the one thing that would change the whole structure, the respectability, the essence of how the cult is allowed to operate in the real world? It isn't the crimes it is involved in, it isn't what the media says, it isn't how many stories the ex's tell, etc. Strip back all the distracting details, the noise, and what are you left with? What generates the most fear in the heart of the beast?

The cult of scientology is terrified of having its tax exemption status(es) revoked. My guess is a nerve has been hit. Lynch-pin stuff.

Tax Exemption, loss of, would change the landscape.
Here are some things that would go or change ~~

1) Losing "Religious" tax exemption, would revert it to being a Business *self-help business* and open it up to Consumer Laws.
2) No such thing as $12 for 80 hours labor. Minimum wage would need to be paid for their human-trafficked Sea Org members.
3) Annual leave and day off would become mandatory.
4) There are a plethora of Laws protecting the consumer, not just from FRAUDULENT claims but from bad results, never mind sending someone into a Type 3 meltdown.
5) There are a glut of lawyers specializing in Consumer law. (Witness how many Lawyers stepped forward for Narconon cases.)
6) Ask yourself can a "self-help" business permit a senior slapping you ? beating you ? Body slamming you ?_
7) Can a business practice permit sleep deprivation ? SP hole ? RPF ?
8) Can a business dump you after 20 years of service with no pension, no medical, no 401K ?

Most of all all that money gouged from hapless victims for *services* would be TAXED federally and by the state.

How could the cult have sustainability ?
Judge Waldrip's findings:​

 

[Glenda]

Karen,
Well said. It would also change all the legal relationships to every other statute. It would also involve serious-fraud teams going in to audit vast financial dealings.

Rescinding exemption is huge. The problem as I see it is govt. agencies don't want to touch it because the amount of resources it will take are beyond the "public purse" capacity. I don't think for one minute that govt. agencies don't want to proceed but more that their hands are tied due to major resource deficiencies.

The cult is counting on the above. Imho.

 

[Karen#1]

Karen,
Well said. It would also change all the legal relationships to every other statute. It would also involve serious-fraud teams going in to audit vast financial dealings.

Rescinding exemption is huge. The problem as I see it is govt. agencies don't want to touch it because the amount of resources it will take are beyond the "public purse" capacity. I don't think for one minute that govt. agencies don't want to proceed but more that their hands are tied due to major resource deficiencies.

The cult is counting on the above. Imho.

Talking with all the right people, this is what we found out.
The IRS divides itself in a quadrant in the US. NorthWest, SouthWest, NorthEast, SouthEast.
Each section is supposed to have an IRS commissioner over Tax exempt organizations.

When the IRS did a major re-structuring internally, these posts were not replenished and there is nobody home on these jobs.
Government agencies can go under major re-structure. We no longer have an INS (Immigration Naturalization Service.)
It got swallowed up by DHS ~~ Department of Homeland Security ~~ this is just an example.

In other words, there is currently no real Tsar over errant Tax exempt entities and these 4 posts need to have someone actually prosecuting their duties.
There is more to this...I will ask Jeffrey to post. He is the expert on all this..​

 

[Free to shine]

Nothing concrete. I am reading between the lines that something is really really scaring the hell out of the cult and it ain't what we can see or hear.

I know for a fact from when I was in, the biggest fear the cult has is losing it's tax exemption status. The cult can sustain all sorts of external hits but would become a ship without a rudder if exemption was revoked.

If/when the move to rescind the exemption hits, it will come out of nowhere. Imho. I realise most people on this board see this issue through an "American lens" but the fact remains that the cult is holding various governments to ransom around the world. This cult has lied to and manipulated many workable democratic systems. Over the years scientology has made some powerful enemies, many of which I have no doubt, are invisible. It is too easy to cling to the noise, that which is visible. It's an OSA tactic to make noise to distract.

You asked the question about what was going on. I suspect it is something to do with legal structure. They've wheeled Marty out like some low-grade actor in a badly scripted play. Why? Look towards the invisible biggest fear. Imho.

I trust this makes some sense. It is a big picture the way this cult was put together, how it has protected itself layer upon layer. It has taken a hammering in popular culture the past 8-10 years. It can sustain those hits so long as all the legally religious protective cloaking is water-tight. Perhaps it isn't water-tight. Just sayin'.

Disclaimer: I probably have no idea what I am talking about. :wink2:

I agree. It's just my feeling but I think the first wall to fall will be either Australia or New Zealand. Our governments may move slowly when they are changing direction, however once the direction is changed they can act very fast. As Scooter has so often pointed out, scientology is all but gone here, with only the 2nd/3rd generation manning up the orgs in their own little bubble. We have politicians like Nick Xenophon and much media support working away and they will not give up. I can't wait for the day ...

This Marty fiasco is for the US audience, it means nothing here.

 

[Glenda]

I agree. It's just my feeling but I think the first wall to fall will be either Australia or New Zealand. Our governments may move slowly when they are changing direction, however once the direction is changed they can act very fast. As Scooter has so often pointed out, scientology is all but gone here, with only the 2nd/3rd generation manning up the orgs in their own little bubble. We have politicians like Nick Xenophon and much media support working away and they will not give up. I can't wait for the day ...

This Marty fiasco is for the US audience, it means nothing here.

Yep. And let us not forget that a decision in one Commonwealth country can become relevant in others. The NZ tax exemption decision was intertwined with a Commonwealth related issue. They can ping off each other.

The cult desperately wanted NZ tax exemption so it could be used in Britain. Fact. I heard that from the OSA horses mouth. The cults legal structure is like a labyrinth. The cult has built its structure using a domino-effect. It has used this to its advantage - it can also be used in reverse. Just sayin'.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

Good lord. Do you guys realize he's up to Part 17 already?

:wink2:
​

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

View attachment 13558
:wink2:
​

Liked that post.

.....then I noticed the VHS cartridge and LOVED that post!

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Liked that post.

.....then I noticed the VHS cartridge and LOVED that post!

The C of S keeps up with the latest tech innovations....

Like the Mark 8 with a serial port, investing in state of the art cassette tapes when CD's came out, and purchasing top of the line CD production equipment when the thumb drive appeared on the landscape. I think they cornered the market on Telexes when the fax machine made it's debut. Oh, I could go on and on, but I have already been replaced by my DA pack, so what's the point?

Mimsey

 

[TheOriginalBigBlue]

On the tax exemption thing - they were doing all this crap long before they got tax exemption. Whats to keep them from just getting people to sign iron clad agreements, NDAs and waivers so they can still be abused?

ie. The RPF and Type III incarcerations are just another voluntary practice. 80 - 130 hour work weeks are a non-refundable donation.

If there can be secular groups who do Mortification of the Flesh then what are the limits of what Scientology can get people to do without tax exempt or religious status?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortification_of_the_flesh#Analogous_non-Christian_concepts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_(body_modification)

I think a fundamental problem is the Church is allowed to have people sign these kinds of agreements without full disclosure. If they had to explain what people were paying for such as Xenu mythology and BT exorcism and the actual living and work conditions and how Catch-22 policies such as the refund arbitration process are really applied, then that would be a game changer.

So I think there needs to be both a revocation of tax exemption and stiffer penalties and better recourse for lack of disclosure.

And as for these vids - this isn't under oath so unless Marty is put under oath to verify which narratives are true and somebody gets to pull the strings on these old OSA ops that he's talking about then I don't think it amounts to much legally.

The "emergency" might just be the exodus of high paying members. These people may just be leaving quietly and the Church doesn't have a line in to them anymore to handle their concerns about all the stuff on the internet so this could be a desperate shotgun attempt to "false data strip" them.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

...

Just a note about the concept of "taking down the COS".

It could rather easily be done, but only if.......

A combined task force of federal agencies went after the COS (Crimewave of Scientology) under RICO statutes.

A multi pronged attack which not only focused on one charge (e.g. 5013c qualifications), but investigated the COS broadly and comprehensively (e.g. inurement to COB, piercing multi alter-ego corporate identities--that are provably one and the same, assaults, violation of "religious" status by selling products/services off a fixed pricelist, et al).

This is how a major portion of the American Mafia has been decimated. No single action or agency (alone) had the full picture of the mafias full scope and reach and its escape tunnels.

If, for example, Scientology tried to hide certain crimes behind a shield of "religious" protections, the other many agencies would be attacking the beast from different angles. Maybe the "beatings" issue goes soft, but meanwhile the IRS has been attacking the COS for its many and substantial financial violations. Or, maybe the IRS investigation is taking longer than expected, but concurrently the FBI investigation is advancing that attacks the cult's use of illegal wire taps, illegal hacking of airline/travel information on their "enemies, child-labor abuses, et al.

The point is, when the cult tries to SQUIRM OUT in one direction, there are a half dozen other "directions" that are rapidly closing in on them.

A cliche (but nonetheless true) is that Capone was never sent to prison for murder or his countless other violent and terroristic crimes . His high-flying jet was as blown out of the air for tax evasion.

Scientology is like a snake or rat with a complex labyrinth of underground escape tunnels. Interestingly, even some humans use those, but only predatory drug pushers or Palestinian terrorists. Short of pure luck--unless all the escape tunnels are blocked, Scientology will slime out and escape over and over again. The difficulty and cost of bringing down a "religion" is great for federal agencies and someone has to get really motivated and laser focused. Without that, Scientology's guerrilla terrorists fighters can easily defeat the US federal government--by simply slipping down one of their escape rat-tunnels.

Little do Scientologists know that their money and efforts are simply there for two (2) reasons only. Neither of which is beneficial to them.

1. To allow money to come in, for the top rat.

2. To pay for the maintenance and upkeep of the escape tunnels.​

 

[George Layton]

I think the 501 C will be gone, and it will likely have a monumental tax bill for not living up to it's agreements, such as giving refunds, as it promised the IRS was SOP. But that has nothing to do with it being a religion, and it won't affect it's constitutional protection. Like it or not - it deals with the nature of man as a spiritual being and thus it is a religion. You just won't be able to take it as a write off on your taxes George, sad to say. Have you thought of forming your own religion? I have Mimsyism, being the sole guru and adherent, perhaps you could do something similar.

How do these strike you? The exalted Church of Laytonology? Or Laytonetics?

Mimsey

It only deals with the nature of man as a spiritual being if that man happens to have enough money to be a spiritual being.
I'm willing to admit I'm not a religion if scientology is willing admit they aren't one.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

<snip>

A combined task force of federal agencies went after the COS (Crimewave of Scientology) under RICO statutes.

<snip>

You've got a point there. Here's a shot from the early 80's
before legitimacy cloaking was put in place and things were
all happy on the homefront between the two.

Underboss, Marty "The Bull" Rathbun
& "The Teflon COB" Miscavige
​

:wink2:
​

 

[Glenda]

...

Just a note about the concept of "taking down the COS".

It could rather easily be done, but only if.......

A combined task force of federal agencies went after the COS (Crimewave of Scientology) under RICO statutes.

A multi pronged attack which not only focused on one charge (e.g. 5013c qualifications), but investigated the COS broadly and comprehensively (e.g. inurement to COB, piercing multi alter-ego corporate identities--that are provably one and the same, assaults, violation of "religious" status by selling products/services off a fixed pricelist, et al).

This is how a major portion of the American Mafia has been decimated. No single action or agency (alone) had the full picture of the mafias full scope and reach and its escape tunnels.

If, for example, Scientology tried to hide certain crimes behind a shield of "religious" protections, the other many agencies would be attacking the beast from different angles. Maybe the "beatings" issue goes soft, but meanwhile the IRS has been attacking the COS for its many and substantial financial violations. Or, maybe the IRS investigation is taking longer than expected, but concurrently the FBI investigation is advancing that attacks the cult's use of illegal wire taps, illegal hacking of airline/travel information on their "enemies, child-labor abuses, et al.

The point is, when the cult tries to SQUIRM OUT in one direction, there are a half dozen other "directions" that are rapidly closing in on them.

A cliche (but nonetheless true) is that Capone was never sent to prison for murder or his countless other violent and terroristic crimes . His high-flying jet was as blown out of the air for tax evasion.

Scientology is like a snake or rat with a complex labyrinth of underground escape tunnels. Interestingly, even some humans use those, but only predatory drug pushers or Palestinian terrorists. Short of pure luck--unless all the escape tunnels are blocked, Scientology will slime out and escape over and over again. The difficulty and cost of bringing down a "religion" is great for federal agencies and someone has to get really motivated and laser focused. Without that, Scientology's guerrilla terrorists fighters can easily defeat the US federal government--by simply slipping down one of their escape rat-tunnels.

Little do Scientologists know that their money and efforts are simply there for two (2) reasons only. Neither of which is beneficial to them.

1. To allow money to come in, for the top rat.

2. To pay for the maintenance and upkeep of the escape tunnels.​

Yes. The multi-pronged approach.

Ssssh. If we aren't careful this thread will "earn us" Marty: The Boxed-Set, Series 2 (the full five hours, uncut version). :wink2:

Cup of tea anyone?

 

[I told you I was trouble]

I haven't watched any of Marty the martyrs more recent videos (the first 8 almost sent me into a coma) but they reminded me shockingly of what it felt like to be trapped in scientology ... scientologists love words, wordy wordy wordy wordy WORDS and utterly pointless (often imagined) details and suspicions.

I probably shouldn't tell this story but I'm a bit beyond caring and have nothing to lose, so I think I will.

Long ago, when I was still married to a "senior" oatee, highly trained, eventually ex-staff scientologist, I felt obliged to listen (well, pretend to listen) to endless streams of waffle, astonishing (not!) "philosophical realisations" worded for full and glorious effect ... and there was always lots of slow head nodding, eye contact, mysterious smiling/knowing smirks to accompany the prattle and quite often (stay with me) teary acknowledgements to "the old man" ... tubs hubbard himself.



After a while (at the first sign of an incoming verbal onslaught) my blood used to start to boil, my teeth automatically gritted and in my mind I would yell "I'm busy, will you just STFU ... go and walk in the fresh air, think about something or someone else for a few minutes, just do something that is actually useful ... get your attention off yourself, hubbard and the ramblings of the cult" ... I never said it out loud though (he was a lot bigger than me and he had a terrifying temper) but the good news is that I eventually managed to extricate myself from his grip (the relief was immediate and lasts to this day) and incredibly my hearing returned to normal after just a few weeks.

Scientology is one big introvertive head screw ... I'd rather be dead than ever again have to listen to that pointless, never-ending slop.

Living with Marty the martyr must be exhausting and by now Mosey will have earned every penny coming her way ... but I doubt if her hearing will ever be quite the same again and in quieter moments (if they exist) she must wonder what life would have been like without being up to her neck in the detritus of scientology and all the over analysing that seems to come with it.

It's so good to be out.

 

[Free to shine]

I haven't watched any of Marty the martyrs more recent videos (the first 8 almost sent me into a coma) but they reminded me shockingly of what it felt like to be trapped in scientology ... scientologists love words, wordy wordy wordy wordy WORDS and utterly pointless (often imagined) details and suspicions.

I probably shouldn't tell this story but I'm a bit beyond caring and have nothing to lose, so I think I will.

Long ago, when I was still married to a "senior" oatee, highly trained, eventually ex-staff scientologist, I felt obliged to listen (well, pretend to listen) to endless streams of waffle, astonishing (not!) "philosophical realisations" worded for full and glorious effect ... and there was always lots of slow head nodding, eye contact, mysterious smiling/knowing smirks to accompany the prattle and quite often (stay with me) teary acknowledgements to "the old man" ... tubs hubbard himself.



After a while (at the first sign of an incoming verbal onslaught) my blood used to start to boil, my teeth automatically gritted and in my mind I would yell "I'm busy, will you just STFU ... go and walk in the fresh air, think about something or someone else for a few minutes, just do something that is actually useful ... get your attention off yourself, hubbard and the ramblings of the cult" ... I never said it out loud though (he was a lot bigger than me and he had a terrifying temper) but the good news is that I eventually managed to extricate myself from his grip (the relief was immediate and lasts to this day) and incredibly my hearing returned to normal after just a few weeks.

Scientology is one big introvertive head screw ... I'd rather be dead than ever again have to listen to that pointless, never-ending slop.

Living with Marty the martyr must be exhausting and by now Mosey will have earned every penny coming her way ... but I doubt if her hearing will ever be quite the same again and in quieter moments (if they exist) she must wonder what life would have been like without being up to her neck in the detritus of scientology and all the over analysing that seems to come with it.

It's so good to be out.

Oh perfectly described. Yes the wordy WORDS, the knowing smirk at the secret knowledge, the unending arrogance and delusion.

Thank goodness we can smell the fresh air, hear and learn of new concepts and feel the stillness when we need.

 

[Veda]

Marty appears to be running out of steam.

[video=youtube;Z5cZib5zwjw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5cZib5zwjw[/video]

Is he almost done with his attempted "dead agenting" of Going Clear?

Is he going to suddenly appear wearing a new shirt?

Will there be more attempted "dead agenting" of other books, sites, people, etc. ?

Will anyone stay awake long enough to notice?

 

[strativarius]

Is he almost done with his attempted "dead agenting" of Going Clear?

Is he going to suddenly appear wearing a new shirt?

Will there be more attempted "dead agenting" of other books, sites, people, etc?

Will anyone stay awake long enough to notice?

These questions—and many others—will be answered in the next episode of... [strike]Soap.[/strike] Going Clear.

 

[Knows]

I haven't watched any of Marty the martyrs more recent videos (the first 8 almost sent me into a coma) but they reminded me shockingly of what it felt like to be trapped in scientology ... scientologists love words, wordy wordy wordy wordy WORDS and utterly pointless (often imagined) details and suspicions.

I probably shouldn't tell this story but I'm a bit beyond caring and have nothing to lose, so I think I will.

Long ago, when I was still married to a "senior" oatee, highly trained, eventually ex-staff scientologist, I felt obliged to listen (well, pretend to listen) to endless streams of waffle, astonishing (not!) "philosophical realisations" worded for full and glorious effect ... and there was always lots of slow head nodding, eye contact, mysterious smiling/knowing smirks to accompany the prattle and quite often (stay with me) teary acknowledgements to "the old man" ... tubs hubbard himself.



After a while (at the first sign of an incoming verbal onslaught) my blood used to start to boil, my teeth automatically gritted and in my mind I would yell "I'm busy, will you just STFU ... go and walk in the fresh air, think about something or someone else for a few minutes, just do something that is actually useful ... get your attention off yourself, hubbard and the ramblings of the cult" ... I never said it out loud though (he was a lot bigger than me and he had a terrifying temper) but the good news is that I eventually managed to extricate myself from his grip (the relief was immediate and lasts to this day) and incredibly my hearing returned to normal after just a few weeks.

Scientology is one big introvertive head screw ... I'd rather be dead than ever again have to listen to that pointless, never-ending slop.

Living with Marty the martyr must be exhausting and by now Mosey will have earned every penny coming her way ... but I doubt if her hearing will ever be quite the same again and in quieter moments (if they exist) she must wonder what life would have been like without being up to her neck in the detritus of scientology and all the over analysing that seems to come with it.

It's so good to be out.

This is so beautiful....and it describes in a few short sentences - for you lurkers out there - who have never been in the cult of Scientology -

WHAT DO SCIENTOLOGISTS DO?

Well - here is what we did / those "still in" - DO:

WE TRAIN SO THAT, WHEN A BIG BEAN OAT TEA SPEAKS.....it will go like this......

"Long ago, when I was still married to a "senior" oatee, highly trained, eventually ex-staff scientologist,

I felt obliged to listen (well, pretend to listen) to endless streams of waffle, astonishing (not!) "philosophical realisations" worded for full and glorious effect ... and there was always lots of slow head nodding, eye contact, mysterious smiling/knowing smirks to accompany the prattle and quite often (stay with me) teary acknowledgements to "the old man" ... tubs hubbard himself."


But....really - what is going on in the inside is THIS:


"After a while (at the first sign of an incoming verbal onslaught) my blood used to start to boil, my teeth automatically gritted and in my mind I would yell "I'm busy, will you just STFU ... go and walk in the fresh air, think about something or someone else for a few minutes,

just do something that is actually useful ... get your attention off yourself, hubbard and the ramblings of the cult" ...

 

[Lurker5]

I haven't watched any of Marty the martyrs more recent videos (the first 8 almost sent me into a coma) but they reminded me shockingly of what it felt like to be trapped in scientology ... scientologists love words, wordy wordy wordy wordy WORDS and utterly pointless (often imagined) details and suspicions.

I probably shouldn't tell this story but I'm a bit beyond caring and have nothing to lose, so I think I will.

Long ago, when I was still married to a "senior" oatee, highly trained, eventually ex-staff scientologist, I felt obliged to listen (well, pretend to listen) to endless streams of waffle, astonishing (not!) "philosophical realisations" worded for full and glorious effect ... and there was always lots of slow head nodding, eye contact, mysterious smiling/knowing smirks to accompany the prattle and quite often (stay with me) teary acknowledgements to "the old man" ... tubs hubbard himself.



After a while (at the first sign of an incoming verbal onslaught) my blood used to start to boil, my teeth automatically gritted and in my mind I would yell "I'm busy, will you just STFU ... go and walk in the fresh air, think about something or someone else for a few minutes, just do something that is actually useful ... get your attention off yourself, hubbard and the ramblings of the cult" ... I never said it out loud though (he was a lot bigger than me and he had a terrifying temper) but the good news is that I eventually managed to extricate myself from his grip (the relief was immediate and lasts to this day) and incredibly my hearing returned to normal after just a few weeks.

Scientology is one big introvertive head screw ... I'd rather be dead than ever again have to listen to that pointless, never-ending slop.

Living with Marty the martyr must be exhausting and by now Mosey will have earned every penny coming her way ... but I doubt if her hearing will ever be quite the same again and in quieter moments (if they exist) she must wonder what life would have been like without being up to her neck in the detritus of scientology and all the over analysing that seems to come with it.

It's so good to be out.

I love that you shared this. Thank you.

 

[JustSheila]

dchoiceisalwaysrs found a nice gem (crossposted from another thread):

As regards the parts I have underlined in your post you might consider the below quote.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_supply


Psychoanalyst Otto Kernberg considered the malignant narcissistic criminal to be coldly characterised by a disregard of others unless they could be idealised as sources of narcissistic supply.[9] Self psychologist Heinz Kohut saw those with narcissistic personality disorder as disintegrating mentally when cut off from a regular source of narcissistic supply.[10] Those providing supply to such figures may be treated as if they are a part of the narcissist, in an eclipse of all personal boundaries.[11]

Is this what happens to a fallen, self-appointed expert and guru? What happens when the person is deserted and ignored by those who once admired and fawned over him? Does he then get up on YouTube and talk non-stop in a desperate attempt to regain the lost attention and admiration?

Narcissistic supply is a concept introduced into psychoanalytic theory by Otto Fenichel in 1938, to describe a type of admiration, interpersonal support or sustenance drawn by an individual from his or her environment and essential to their self-esteem.[SUP][1][/SUP]
The term is typically used in a negative sense, describing a pathological or excessive need for attention or admiration from codependents, or such a need in the orally fixated, that does not take into account the feelings, opinions or preferences of other people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_supply

"Theoretically, oral-stage fixations are manifested as garrulousness (talkativeness)..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_stage#Oral-stage_fixation

Maybe Marty has a contract or agreement with COS. He certainly appears to have acquired a lucrative income source since he lost the financial support of some exes after turning on them.

But maybe again the vids are just loopy enough to be, well, just Marty seeking attention. Or Marty scripted. Or Marty's idea of personal revenge. Other than the nice suit and a good videographer, they're sloppy, tedious and half-assed critiques. Marty wants to be left alone, but he doesn't want to be left alone because he's addicted to the attention.

Ethercat brought up that these may be a distraction from something else. It could be fear of losing tax exemption.

It could also mean that some seriously high-profile folks have recently left because of, "Going Clear" or there has been some kerfluffle within COS management itself. IDK, but we should be on the alert.