Marty Rathbun raises his head, and starts squawking

[Karen#1]

I hear you and prior to him (in this last few weeks) going out of his way to prove to the world that he is a thoroughly nasty piece of work I would have agreed with you ... I was (and still am) quite happy for him to receive money from the cofs (I hope he sends them broke!) and when it became clear that he was no longer friendly with certain people I admit that I thought it best if ESMB kept well out of it (there are always two sides and people often become friends again once the dust settles) ... but Marty Rathbun is now seriously attempting to discredit some very good people who are exposing the cult of con for us and potential future victims, why would anyone want to do that?

He has every right to his personal opinions but he is now trying to use them to focus attention on pointless, mindless TRIVIA, he's attempting to muddy the water when the war is clearly being won, why???

I will answer your question and tell you WHY.
A main strategy of Hubbard in his advices was

SUBVERT THE SUBVERTER.

Subvert definition :undermine the power and authority of (an established system or institution).
destabilize, unsettle, overthrow, overturn, bring down, topple, depose, oust;
disrupt, wreak havoc on, sabotage, ruin, undermine, weaken, damage


Marty is attempting to subvert Leah, Mike Rinder and Tony Ortega exactly per LRH advice.

He won't get anywhere but the attempt is visible if you knew the Hubbards (and OSA + RTC's) strategy.

(Will continue last post tomorrow.)​

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

Yes, there's the Russian troika folk dance . . . but a more apt usage is the traditional Russian carriage
drawn by a team of three horses. The Russian troika is known for its high speed, up to 50 kilometers
an hour. It's a symbol of Russia and often used on Christmas cards.

View attachment 13573

Makes me think Marty is in collusion with the Russians.

Who uses that word in common conversation???

I recommend an Independent Special Counsel investigate before
we proceed any further on this thread.

Oh come on Lurky, at least google-fu horsey-speeds, like 30k on icy stuff?, maybe in fresh snow, with a three horse sleigh, plenty fast enough to make you crap yourself...or kill yas. http://www.speedofanimals.com/animals/horse
A fun vid for y'all, and man that does look like fun! >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVqFkg17Tgk



And Marty as a spy? Something holds his gonads in a tight grip, guilt? DM's gold-plated pliers? :confused2:

 

[I told you I was trouble]

I will answer your question and tell you WHY.
A main strategy of Hubbard in his advices was

SUBVERT THE SUBVERTER.

Subvert definition :undermine the power and authority of (an established system or institution).
destabilize, unsettle, overthrow, overturn, bring down, topple, depose, oust;
disrupt, wreak havoc on, sabotage, ruin, undermine, weaken, damage


Marty is attempting to subvert Leah, Mike Rinder and Tony Ortega exactly per LRH advice.

He won't get anywhere but the attempt is visible if you knew the Hubbards (and OSA + RTC's) strategy.

(Will continue last post tomorrow.)​

I do know OSA and RTC strategy (they were rhetorical questions) but I'm still coming to terms with the idea that a 60 year old man who has been out of the cult for years and has slammed the cofs (including the OSA and the RTC) within an inch of it's life ... would simply return to using it ... it seems incredible (to me) that anyone (but especially a man of his age) would willingly make such a dick of himself.

 

[Free Being Me]

A map of 'Martyland'

​

 

[Glenda]

I do know OSA and RTC strategy (they were rhetorical questions) but I'm still coming to terms with the idea that a 60 year old man who has been out of the cult for years and has slammed the cofs (including the OSA and the RTC) within an inch of it's life ... would simply return to using it ... it seems incredible (to me) that anyone (but especially a man of his age) would willingly make such a dick of himself.

I was thinking about a very similar thing the other - about someone being away from the cult for years & the potential for them to return to the fold (possibly big time). Or not even returning to service/staff lines but reverting to use the methods heavily.

It is my opinion that the conditioning goes very very deep and if it is not honestly addressed it lurks like a time-bomb for the individual. I won't get into a long-winded explanation about this here. I concluded that it was possible for someone who had been out in the real world, been influenced by life (in positive ways), to return big time to the cult-identity and behaviour.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

I was thinking about a very similar thing the other - about someone being away from the cult for years & the potential for them to return to the fold (possibly big time). Or not even returning to service/staff lines but reverting to use the methods heavily.

It is my opinion that the conditioning goes very very deep and if it is not honestly addressed it lurks like a time-bomb for the individual. I won't get into a long-winded explanation about this here. I concluded that it was possible for someone who had been out in the real world, been influenced by life (in positive ways), to return big time to the cult-identity and behaviour.

Yes, I suppose it's possible (especially if it once "worked" so well for you) ... but it isn't just scientologists who use these methods, Politicians (and other manipulators) also use them. None of it is rocket science and hubbard certainly didn't invent it (though I expect he added a few extra special spiteful bits!).

Perhaps you have to be a certain kind of person in the first place to revert back so easily to the seriously vicious and nasty side of scientology and although it has taken me a while to reach this point, at the moment I feel nothing but disgust for the man.

 

[ThetanExterior]

As Karen and others have pointed out, Marty only left scientology when Miscavige started punishing him. He seemed fine with the idea of others being punished.

Having left for good he wrote a book portraying himself as a "Scientology Warrior" which I don't think went down too well.

Then he tried using his blog to portray himself as a philosopher and great thinker but that was also a fail. Whenever people asked him to explain what he was talking about he either ignored them or else told them to re-study everything he'd already said.

He also tried to be the scientology expert in the documentaries Going Clear and Louis Theroux's My Scientology Movie. He ended up complaining about both of them that they didn't come out the way he wanted.

Eventually, I surmise, Miscavige stroked his ego telling him he could be the main man. Tell it like it is. Trash all your enemies then disappear with a big pay check. Fuck them all.

That's my take on it.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

Yes, I suppose it's possible (especially if it once "worked" so well for you) ... but it isn't just scientologists who use these methods, Politicians (and other manipulators) also use them. None of it is rocket science and hubbard certainly didn't invent it (though I expect he added a few extra special spiteful bits!).

Perhaps you have to be a certain kind of person in the first place to revert back so easily to the seriously vicious and nasty side of scientology and although it has taken me a while to reach this point, at the moment I feel nothing but disgust for the man.

MARTY MASKOLOGY

Marty's art form has always been rapid "mask changing".

He used to get commendations, applause and medals for it.

After he retired, he tried other professions, but failed. So, he began trying to get back into the rapid face changing business--but nobody was much interested. These days he performs on the street or wherever someone will watch him--like on the internet and/or when anyone pays him.


[video=youtube;PgIyPDSxa3c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgIyPDSxa3c&ab_channel=Road2Wisdom[/video]

 

[ThetanExterior]

I can't believe people are leaving comments on Marty's blog as if he's there and available for conversation.

I would imagine he's lying on a beach somewhere and that blog is now being run by OSA.

 

[RogerB]

No one believes anything Marty says anyway. He's making a fool of himself, why attack him and sully yourself? Mike Rinder and John Brousseau's responses are preferable to this kind of tit for tat. No offense, Karen. Just my humble opinion

Methinks you miss the important point of Karen's post, kuato . . .

She is making known the factual history of Marty's duplicitous behavior . . . and this to inform folks so none are taken in by him and his games.

Karen has a lot more to do with her time than engaging in "tit for tat" . . .

Your comment might have more credibility if we knew more of you and your experience/history in dealing with the cult. Karen's credibility is beyond reproach.

Rog

 

[Lurker5]

I will answer your question and tell you WHY.
A main strategy of Hubbard in his advices was

SUBVERT THE SUBVERTER.

Subvert definition :undermine the power and authority of (an established system or institution).
destabilize, unsettle, overthrow, overturn, bring down, topple, depose, oust;
disrupt, wreak havoc on, sabotage, ruin, undermine, weaken, damage


Marty is attempting to subvert Leah, Mike Rinder and Tony Ortega exactly per LRH advice.

He won't get anywhere but the attempt is visible if you knew the Hubbards (and OSA + RTC's) strategy.

(Will continue last post tomorrow.)​

And co$/o$a has subverted Marty the Subverter, thoroughly discrediting, ruining, undermining, destabilizing, unsettling and damaging him, by brilliantly getting him (bribing him?) to do it to himself. Gees, Marty, we hardly knew ya. But we do now.

Thanks Karen. Your posts on Marty are clearing up a lot of shadowy stuff in and around him.
Now we know.

 

[Lurker5]

I do know OSA and RTC strategy (they were rhetorical questions) but I'm still coming to terms with the idea that a 60 year old man who has been out of the cult for years and has slammed the cofs (including the OSA and the RTC) within an inch of it's life ... would simply return to using it ... it seems incredible (to me) that anyone (but especially a man of his age) would willingly make such a dick of himself.

Yeah, hard to believe - REALLY hard to believe, that someone, anyone, would throw away so much - in such an immature, childish, tantrum-quality act of vengeance.

How's that workin' for ya Marty?

 

[Lurker5]

I was thinking about a very similar thing the other - about someone being away from the cult for years & the potential for them to return to the fold (possibly big time). Or not even returning to service/staff lines but reverting to use the methods heavily.

It is my opinion that the conditioning goes very very deep and if it is not honestly addressed it lurks like a time-bomb for the individual. I won't get into a long-winded explanation about this here. I concluded that it was possible for someone who had been out in the real world, been influenced by life (in positive ways), to return big time to the cult-identity and behaviour.

I see it more as a failure and a desperate attempt to deflect that off of himself, and find a way to blame others, His wog life HE FELT was failing, so he found the "SPs" to blame, and reverted back to his conditioning, because the $cno tech shifts blame onto others, as easy as shouting and screaming one's displeasure. It is a regressive act.
Recidivism.

 

[Mimsey Borogrove]

Hi Karen - this a bit of a funny dichotomy. On one hand you have him rewriting the past and on the other, perhaps per the policy on finding crimes or if not, invent them; however in the PR series Hubbard talks about how using lies in PR backfires. In his rants, he is experiencing the backfire as people think he has taken leave of his senses, or he is a Miscavage's tool.

My question is: Who is his target audience?

I doubt the trioka and their followers would be swayed by anything he has to say. Who then does he hope to get his message out to?

Mimsey

I will answer your question and tell you WHY.
A main strategy of Hubbard in his advices was

SUBVERT THE SUBVERTER.

Subvert definition :undermine the power and authority of (an established system or institution).
destabilize, unsettle, overthrow, overturn, bring down, topple, depose, oust;
disrupt, wreak havoc on, sabotage, ruin, undermine, weaken, damage


Marty is attempting to subvert Leah, Mike Rinder and Tony Ortega exactly per LRH advice.

He won't get anywhere but the attempt is visible if you knew the Hubbards (and OSA + RTC's) strategy.

(Will continue last post tomorrow.)​

 

[rickybobby]

So, does someone want to tell me again that Marty is doing what he's doing now and he's not getting any money for it?

Do you think it was money alone or did Miscavige promise him something else, too--- something that gives him the power and the recognition he craves? I think it's pretty plain that he is pretty strongly motivated to seek attention and power over others.

 

[Purple Rain]

I can tell Marty that your reputation is your most valuable asset after your family, your friends and your health. Your character. Your integrity. It's like having a bad credit rating, only worse. It touches every area of your life and eventually even your perception of your own self and the vibe you give out to others. It touches your children. Oh, you're the child of the "bad one." I do truly feel sorry for his son, because he'll never be able to look up to his father once he sees that. Talk about time bombs waiting to go off. His father was a nasty tool for Scientology. As a critic, he really WAS a warrior. Now he is a character of derision and pity. Even out in the "wog" world, who respects someone who contradicts their own evidence? Noone. Who respects someone who knifes their friends in the kidneys when their back is turned? Noone. And he has done that to himself. Nobody else has done it to him except him. I hope the reward was worth it, but I suspect, like with the story of Esau, that he will find selling his inheritance for a bowl of soup, was not the deal it seemed cracked up to be when he was hungry.

 

[Lulu Belle]

https://youtu.be/8vfSazTH8is

 

[George Layton]

I wonder how much light it would shed on Marty's action if a person could follow the money. I'm talking about the money that financed Marty since when he left the hole up until now. Was there a financier change just prior to each time Marty changed direction in his blog?
I'm sure the chances of gaining this information would be as nearly as impossible as getting Marty to simply explain why he changed without any embellishment to appease the ego. Could there be, even now, those who "help him out" not attached to the official cos that this narrative is important to holding up their world view?

 

[RogerB]

As you all know from earlier posts, Steve Cannane and I have been in communication regarding Rathburn’s nonsense.

As you see below, Steve has asked me to pass on some correction to earlier posts made by another/others . . . rather than create unneeded traffic, I decided to post this exchange between Steve and me containing the item to be corrected along with Steve’s corrections as below.

________________________
I wrote to Steve as follows:
On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 6:47 PM, <RB> wrote:
Lots of discussion on ESMB and some revelations for you.

Rathburn, of course is lying and misrepresenting . . . .

He is using your reference as a means to discredit Gibney on the point of the Melbourne Inquiry being a witch-hunt.

He mentions a Ewan Cameron (in my view) though many hear it as "you and Cameron." We have found a Ewan Cameron . . . but surely he had nothing to do with the inquiry . . . though he was a later target of the cult because he was the psych in-charge of MK Ultra psych experiments for the US military!!!

Here are the links on ESMB.


http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ts-squawking&p=1144139&viewfull=1#post1144139

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ts-squawking&p=1144224&viewfull=1#post1144224

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ts-squawking&p=1144255&viewfull=1#post1144255


http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ts-squawking&p=1144261&viewfull=1#post1144261


http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ts-squawking&p=1144323&viewfull=1#post1144323

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...ts-squawking&p=1144336&viewfull=1#post1144336
15th June 2017, 11:15 AM503

Rog


_________________

Steve replied to me this morning . . .

Roger, thanks for all that. You are right in your later posts, that is Ewen Cameron the British psychiatrist who the conspiracy theorists latch onto as being responsible for all kinds of things. Of course Rathbun does not give any evidence in that one video that he was involved in the inquiry - he just states it. I wonder if he will say more about it in his later posts? The Scientologists think Dax was the driving force ( who Rathbun wrongly labels a prosecutor) behind the inquiry. As you know from my book I don't think he was, but Rathbun seems to be buying into this conspiracy theory.
​

I added an explanation in my reply to Steve regarding Dax:
Correct: Dax was merely and expert witness who gave testimony, even if it was evidence as a consequence of collusion with other expert witnesses.

While I appreciate Sheila's kind words about my reporting she has misrepresented my interactions with Rathbun. I can't find her email. Do you mind passing the following onto her and getting her to put a correction up on esmb? I will put my corrections in capitals
​

Following is the original material as posted to ESMB with corrections in CAPS.

To the best of my knowledge (and I haven't read Steve's book), Marty and Steve Cannane never met, but Steve Cannane said he spoke to him twice for the book: ( THIS IS ACCURATE..TWICE INTERVIEWED HIM ON THE PHONE AND A FEW INTERACTIONS VIA EMAIL)

Steve Cannane is an Australian reporter, national Aus television as well as major newspapers. When Steve first began actively exposing the crimes of Scientology on television in Australia, Marty was a practicing Indie and didn't like it a bit and tried to get in the middle of it and tried to contact Steve Cannane directly to get himself interviewed and make himself the key and only media contact for exScientologists, ( I DON'T KNOW IF MARTY LIKED MY REPORTING OR NOT - HE DID NOT CONTACT ME, LET ALONE ASK ME TO INTERVIEW HIM)

but Steve wouldn't have a bar of it at the time and just carried on, interviewing Australian exes directly and exposing current and past Scientology crimes in Australia, about once a month on major media, for years. (I WAS CERTAINLY NOT DELIBERATELY IGNORING MARTY - I WAS DOING TV STORIES RELATING TO LOCALS AND DID NOT NEED HIS EXPERTISE)
Thanks Rog, hope all is good with you, Steve
​

RogerB

 

[survivalist]

So, does someone want to tell me again that Marty is doing what he's doing now and he's not getting any money for it?

I think it's quite possible. Which is not to say that a CSI payment/settlement isn't also possible.

Yeah, hard to believe - REALLY hard to believe, that someone, anyone, would throw away so much - in such an immature, childish, tantrum-quality act of vengeance.

I think there are these possibilities:

• Rathbun is doing this under some duress. I'm skeptical of this because he's already been subjected to various forms and I don't know what CSI has now that they didn't have five years ago. Every year that goes by, his threat to CSI diminishes (or at least, doesn't increase), so why now? I'm skeptical of Oretega's tax exemption theory because I (alas) think that would be extremely hard to overturn and CSI isn't really threatened by that.
• Rathbun is doing this in exchange for money or other rewards. Certainly possible, though CSI isn't usually this subtle. Having Rathbun make a deal to issue his own videos attacking other critics and DA himself is a little more sophisticated than the usual CSI attack ad strategy. If this was the case, I'd expect Rathbun to issue videos praising Miscavige, taking back everything he's said, etc. CSI is usually all or nothing, not net weight. CSI isn't the "we admit a few small mistakes, but overall" - rather they're the "we are 100% perfect" sort, and this doesn't quite fit that model.
• Rathbun is doing this out of his own internal drive for glory or because of his personal delusions. I think he deeply fears irrelevance. I think he was hoping to be Scientology's Martin Luther and it didn't work out. He can't let go of the idea that Hubbard was a great man because if he does, that means he's wasted his life. He wants to be thought of as an important thinker and pioneering philosopher, but he's not. He's a pseudointellectual time cube kind of guy. He thought his private space of the indie movement would grow, and it's probably shrinking as people move out of the indie halfway house towards recovery. He probably has had a very hard time adjusting from being saluted to being...well, nobody, really. Out here in the "wog world" his CSI days don't make him important. No one's impressed you're a Class XII auditor out here, and that bugs him.

I personally would love it if he is completely ignored on season two of Leah Remini's show. Rinder already had his (rather classy) response, and doesn't need to say more. Rathbun operates at that level of childishness - ignore me and it makes me mad.

Lawrence Wright described Scientology as a journey into LRH's mind, and how you become LRH and think like him after a while. Isn't Rathbun a great example of that?

• Inflated self-importance
• Sees himself as a visionary
• Takes whatever he's most recently read and repackages it as his own breakthrough
• Ignores critics
• Surrounds himself with sycophants
• Prefers untaxable cash payments
• Is super-sensitive to any criticism. e.g., picking one line out of Ortega's article on Monique firing her attorneys and going all rue-the-day on it
• Being published and having popular books is very important
• Invents his own language and terms

Rathbun's evolved into a mini-Miscavige: Miscavige only speaks at closed Scn events, won't take questions, and never responds to criticism. Rathbun only speaks via videos on his blogs and won't respond to questions or critics.

I think deep down, Rathbun looks at Hubbard and Miscavige and thinks "I should have been them, it's not fair".