Marty Rathbun raises his head, and starts squawking PART 2

[Type4_PTS]

Small fish, 99.9% of Freezone and/or Independent is squirrel, some squirrel flamboyant. That's other intention - counter intention comes up first.

;-)

You may be right that handling the critics takes priority over the Freezone/Indies, but the FZ'er/Indies aren't "small fish". More Scientology gets done outside of the CoS than IN, and whether they're squirrelly or not is irrelevant when it comes to finances. If squirrel organizations can successfully attract those individuals interested in Scientology then they're hurting the CoS financially.

Whether CoS can do anything effective to counter the Indie/FZ'er' competition now (or not) in the age of the internet is a different issue. But history shows that they would do something IF they could.

The real priority though of the COS may be on something completely different from either of those things mentioned above. Their real focus seems to be on continuing their Ideal Real Estate Scam, extracting money from the Whales, and I bet much of their income also comes from investing the billions of dollars they're sitting on.

Delivering Scientology and suppressing the squirrels seems to take a back seat to both of those objectives.

 

[Zoe Archibald]

- So Marty proceeds to correct Tom DeVocht on his views of Scientology, as expressed in a TV program they were on together a few years ago. Of course, Marty doesn't specify what this show was. Can't have people watching it to see what was actually said -

I suspect Marty is referring to Louis Theroux's "My Scientology Movie". Going by Marty's own timeline in that video, the movie is the only time Marty and Tom DeVocht have been on-camera together and it is the only opportunity Marty has had, as he says, to "do a show" in order to "establish some objectivity with respect to Scientology".

To be fair, its possible that what Marty said happened between him and Tom did happen but was cut from the movie. You can get an idea of how things might have gone down becase the movie does include a scene in which Tom made it crystal clear exactly what he thought of Scientology and those who like even little bits of it. The exchange occurs at around about 41 mins into the movie when Louis and Marty visit Tom at his home. The three men are talking about David Miscavige's violence and why an intended FBI raid at Gold Base would have been unlikely to succeed. Tom explains that if the FBI had gone in and freed people from The Hole, those people would most likely have told the FBI that they were happy to be there and that David Miscavige was a saint. Louis appears incredulous. Its like he just doesn't get how pernicious the effects of Scientology can be on a person's mind. Then, at 42:34 into the movie, Tom passionately spells it out as clearly as he can. With a raised voice, he tells Louis

- It [Scientology] is insane. It is the most destructive quote-unquote religion - cult - I have ever read anything about or anything. It is a fucking nightmare. It really is. I see people today that I meet with who still believe in a little bit of it. I just want to shake them and go "you've just got to fucking stop". Its a crock of shit -

It's a powerful moment. Tom's sincerity is undeniable. Louis appears, finally, to have got it. Marty, on the other hand, looks chagrined. He knew he'd just been called out for being someone who still believes in "a little bit of" Scientology and is most definitely one of the people Tom wants to shake and tell "you've just got to fucking stop".

Its ironic that if Marty had followed that advice to stop at the time he would not have degraded himself so thoroughly on such an international scale by his own behaviour as shown in the rest of the movie.

 

[Gib]

I suspect Marty is referring to Louis Theroux's "My Scientology Movie". Going by Marty's own timeline in that video, the movie is the only time Marty and Tom DeVocht have been on-camera together and it is the only opportunity Marty has had, as he says, to "do a show" in order to "establish some objectivity with respect to Scientology".

To be fair, its possible that what Marty said happened between him and Tom did happen but was cut from the movie. You can get an idea of how things might have gone down becase the movie does include a scene in which Tom made it crystal clear exactly what he thought of Scientology and those who like even little bits of it. The exchange occurs at around about 41 mins into the movie when Louis and Marty visit Tom at his home. The three men are talking about David Miscavige's violence and why an intended FBI raid at Gold Base would have been unlikely to succeed. Tom explains that if the FBI had gone in and freed people from The Hole, those people would most likely have told the FBI that they were happy to be there and that David Miscavige was a saint. Louis appears incredulous. Its like he just doesn't get how pernicious the effects of Scientology can be on a person's mind. Then, at 42:34 into the movie, Tom passionately spells it out as clearly as he can. With a raised voice, he tells Louis



It's a powerful moment. Tom's sincerity is undeniable. Louis appears, finally, to have got it. Marty, on the other hand, looks chagrined. He knew he'd just been called out for being someone who still believes in "a little bit of" Scientology and is most definitely one of the people Tom wants to shake and tell "you've just got to fucking stop".

Its ironic that if Marty had followed that advice to stop at the time he would not have degraded himself so thoroughly on such an international scale by his own behaviour as shown in the rest of the movie.

Tom says this:

- It [Scientology] is insane. It is the most destructive quote-unquote religion - cult - I have ever read anything about or anything. It is a fucking nightmare. It really is. I see people today that I meet with who still believe in a little bit of it. I just want to shake them and go "you've just got to fucking stop". Its a crock of shit -

I think what Tom means is that there are no "clears" or "OT's" and that's why it's insane, which I would agree with if that is what Tom means. Marty's middle path, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Way

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eightfold_Path

if you ask me, his objectively desire to explain scientology, gets in the way and has clouded the true nature of scientology which is it is based on lies and rhetoric and PR propaganda. I think the same reason for people who state they got something out of scientology, but I did too, but there are no fuk'in clears or OT's, and that is the true story to tell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP6_i2axrlM

 

[CommunicatorIC]

.

It's not that I think Jim Logan infiltrated Marty's group, or was turned at some point, but can someone refresh my memory about why those two split up, if it was ever known?

I know that Marty felt a little guilty about hunting down Annie Broeker and preventing her from leaving the cult and being with Jim, and that Jim and Marty felt united ideologically, to make Independent Scientology grow and clear the planet, but was the reason they split just over Marty tending to have less rigid ideas, as he began to relax his interpretation of Hubbard's policies and ideas? Was there one thing they just couldn't reconcile?

The specific details of their falling out evades me for the moment, but I seem to recall that it was strictly a scriptural scramble to determine who was [STRIKE]Holier[/STRIKE] KSW[SUP]ier[/SUP] Than Thou.

I do clearly remember something else about their unseemly indie "dramatization". Quite some time before ANY of that "enturbulation" developed and saw daylight, I had already posted a prediction to the effect that "...it was not even a question of IF but WHEN one or more Indies would turn on Rathbun and begin attacking him...."

How did I possibly have so much "knowingness"? LOL. Simple, because (as I posted in my Nostradamus-like prediction) no matter what Scientologists (of any denomination, whether COS, Indies, Ron's Org, et al) say or do, they are still Scientologists. Meaning, it is their destiny, pre-determined by their Dianetic DNA to (eventually) "always attack" wicked "enemies" of their own making, imagination and delusional paranoia.

If there was any brilliance in making such an odd prediction (at a time when Indies were joined in lockstep, synchronous, "power-flowing" "agreement" about their own "courageous", "ethical", "insouciant" "integrity"-laden superiority to "squirrelly", "PTS", "off-Source" COS scientologists) it was simply recognizing and respecting this zen-simple principle:

SCIENTOLOGISTS ARE ALWAYS EASILY PREDICTABLE
IF YOU JUST IGNORE THEIR CHEST-THUMPING
LIES, KNOWINGNESS, STATISTICAL FAKERY,
OT WINS, CERTAINTY, MIRACLES,
MISDIRECTION AND
FAIR-GAMING
ATTACKS​

Because, Scientologists' destiny is inexorably programmed to sooner or later self-destruct[SUP]1[/SUP]. If not at the hands of their triumphant whistleblowing "enemies", then by their own masochistic clownery--when their ship sails in circles bumping into its own indiscriminately destructive wake.


ALL YE DOUBTERS SPOILER ALERT: If you turn to last chapter/last page of the book ("The Rise & Fall of Hubbard's Hoax"), you will discover that Scientologists' most sacredly cherished OT power ("knowingness") was really just a trojan horse "implant" all along. It eventually implodes. There is no exception. The only variation is the length of the fuse.





.
[SUP]1[/SUP] A casual 30-second Google search will suffice, in order to quickly satisfy any doubts about the fate that befell the universe's most supernaturally powerful OTs (e.g. Dr. Hubbard himself, his wife Mary Sue, their children, John McMasters, Captain Bill Robertson, et al).

I kept a pretty close eye on the Independent Scientology scene back then. (For example, I cross-posted and extensively commented on the first proposed Constitution of Milestone Two, which was later roundly rejected and then abandoned.) At the time, Marty was trying to promote a more moderate, kinder, gentler, less-literal, more tolerant, more metaphorical brand of Independent Scientology. Logan wasn't having it, and was all KSW all of the time.

At the time, I labeled Marty's brand the (relatively) moderate wing of Independent Scientology, in contrast to the conservative, literal, Wahhabi, Milestone Two wing of Independent Scientology (which didn't make the later happy when they cleared the word Wahhabi).

In a later interview Marty made it clear that he (at least then) wasn't a Scientologist, independent or otherwise, and called Independent Scientology a "failed experiment."

FWIW, at that time Marty tried to do what others before him have tried to do -- i.e., cut out the abusive and literally nonsensical crap in Scientology, and somehow preserve what they perceived to be the good. Like them, he failed. As I recall, the attacks by the Wahhabi wing of IS were relentless.

 

[Balthasar]

Why, Marty why?


10 weeks before these video clips.

A delivery van drove up to Marty's house and out stepped a fat middle aged driver in an blue overal. The driver handed to Marty a mobile phone. Marty took the phone. The driver and the van left. Suddenly, the phone rung. On the phone was Miscavige!

Miscavige: "Listen up you fucking, cocksucking degenerated idiot, I dropped 5 millions for your fucking bitch and now I am getting shit with Going Clear and Leah Rimini!"

Marty: WTF!?

Miscavige: "You cocksucking, out exchange bitch! You going to do something about it! Or how you like RJ (attorney Ray Jeffrey) receiving an update, you fucking idiot!"

Marty: "Sir, yes Sir?"

Miscavige: "Shut the FUCK UP ASSHOLE!!! Will send you somebody!"

(Note: please excuse above language. I am only the messenger and just transcribing )

 

[tesseract]

Marty is being so incomprehensible and long-winded that when he's talking about Ron Miscavige's book or Leah Remini's show or whatever else, people don't quite get the point.
As I already stated in an edited footnote to an otherwise humorous post, some scientologists who (are made or prompted to?) watch his videos, might become curious to check out the critical works simply because they don't understand a thing of what Marty is trying to say. Therefore they might decide to check out this "entheta", not as an act of rebellion but to better understand the points CoS was trying to make to them. Because hey, they're big beings, they'll shake off that entheta. So much for those who still are supporters. Those who are actually fed up and "under the radar" (disaffected but staying quiet to not lose family, friends and/or work), might conclude, in a more straightforward manner, "screw this, now I'm checking out this stuff because that hired loon talked bad about it".
Oh well, is this just one of my strange and too optimistic thougts?
Once upon a time, not an ex and not with relatives in CoS but curious, and certainly unnerved by all that rabid religiosity in the USA, I had that nagging feeling that I did not understand scientology, and that it was complex, all of which ramped up my curiosity about it ... I had to finally explore it... And here I am, after several years of almost daily cult watch. In sum, I've found out as much about myself as about scientology.
I wonder, about the minority who decides to look further, why shouldn't they experience something similar, that is, about curiosity? Maybe they don't want to "make CoS wrong" and to satisfy their nagging doubts (do they have any and if so, how close to the surface are they in their consciousness?) but to feed their nagging curiosity.
Curiosity is rebellious and luciferic, but they don't necessarily need to know this to conduct this act of rebellion.
Posting those strange and incomprehensible videos for scientologists might look like a carte blanche for some to check out more "strange stuff" on their own - first, to get clarity about what CoS was trying to tell them. We know what is going to happen next, but that could be the starting point for some.
And nothing is as "strange" and outlandish for a scientologist as entheta, right?
Just a thought.

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

I kept a pretty close eye on the Independent Scientology scene back then. (For example, I cross-posted and extensively commented on the first proposed Constitution of Milestone Two, which was later roundly rejected and then abandoned.) At the time, Marty was trying to promote a more moderate, kinder, gentler, less-literal, more tolerant, more metaphorical brand of Independent Scientology. Logan wasn't having it, and was all KSW all of the time.

At the time, I labeled Marty's brand the (relatively) moderate wing of Independent Scientology, in contrast to the conservative, literal, Wahhabi, Milestone Two wing of Independent Scientology (which didn't make the later happy when they cleared the word Wahhabi).

In a later interview Marty made it clear that he (at least then) wasn't a Scientologist, independent or otherwise, and called Independent Scientology a "failed experiment."

FWIW, at that time Marty tried to do what others before him have tried to do -- i.e., cut out the abusive and literally nonsensical crap in Scientology, and somehow preserve what they perceived to be the good. Like them, he failed. As I recall, the attacks by the Wahhabi wing of IS were relentless.

Good post!

Yes, as you point out--at one point in time Marty headed the "MODERATE" Indie movement.

He was bending over backwards in an attempt to mainstream the cult's beliefs and practices. For example he tried to solve the humiliating "Xenu" problem by claiming (without a shred of evidence) that Hubbard meant the story in an allegorical way. I remember the lunacy of those discussions. Unless I have suddenly developed a memory deficiency, I don't recall anything in the advanced OT levels about allegorical DC-8s, allegorical volcanos or allegorical BTs or allegorical donations for hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay for my allegorical tech estimate.

Anybody receive a bank statement reflecting in your checking account that the COS only allegorically cashed (but not in the physical world!) the checks you handed them?

There were so many incredibly stupid moments in Rathbun's post-COS "INDIE & BEYOND" adventures---but that one ("It's a modern science--no wait--it's an allegory!") has got to be the current leading contender to win the category of:

"No really, you're definitely joking, right?"
HALL OF FAME


​

Scientology Koan Du Jour: If OT III - OT VIII is all an allegory, why do OTs buy and take two (2) meters into every BT blowing session?


Hold on, I hear something coming in on the telex lines.......

Originally Posted by Marty Rathbun

Answer: Because the meter reads on both 1. REALITY, and; 2. DISAGREEMENT. I have advanced and completed Ron's research troika and discovered the final missing piece of the puzzle that has plagued mankind for trillions of years, on this planet. Ron never even suspected this one, folks! The meter also reads on: 3. ALLEGORIES.

ML,

Marty

ps: Hey all you punks, haters and ASC suppressives! I'm still willing to help you find The Middle Way, like I have! That's why I seem to be smirking and snickering so much in my videos, that's happiness in case you don't recognize it, you know-nothing, nattery, low-life jerk-offs! So, be sure to order an advanced copy of my soon-to-be-released book ("Memoirs of A Scientology Propaganda Pimp") where I will finally explain who is supposed to rue what and why! And I also reveal the mind-blowing secret of what the term "Preparing the Ground" means!

 

[J. Swift]

OTVIIIIsGrrr8: Scientology spokesman & cyber-fascist Marty Rathbun is butthurt & enturbulated. He is fuming mad that you SP's have freedom of speech!

 

[CommunicatorIC]

Yes, as you point out--at one point in time Marty headed the "MODERATE" Indie movement.

He was bending over backwards in an attempt to mainstream the cult's beliefs and practices. For example he tried to solve the humiliating "Xenu" problem by claiming (without a shred of evidence) that Hubbard meant the story in an allegorical way. I remember the lunacy of those discussions. Unless I have suddenly developed a memory deficiency, I don't recall anything in the advanced OT levels about allegorical DC-8s, allegorical volcanos or allegorical BTs or allegorical donations for hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay for my allegorical tech estimate.

Well, we all know that that when the Tech didn't work, Hubbard: (a) claimed per KSW (or the same attitude before KSW was written) that it was only because it was misunderstood and applied incorrectly; but (b) nonetheless invented new Tech. Dianetics, Running Black and White (which is truly, truly WTF?, even more than Xenu), Objectives, Creative Processing, the Grades, Power, etc. ad nauseum.

Hubbard borrowed and, to be fair to Hubbard, adapted a lot. Dianetics is abreaction thearpy applied by non-professionals. (Always a good idea.) "The greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics" is Utilitarianism with the concept of the "dynamics" tacked on. Etc.

Something I saw regularly discussed in the ARS days, but don't recall seeing mentioned here, is that OT 3 through OT 7 are simply exorcism under a different name.* The problem was that Hubbard felt the need to explain where the demons / spiritual entities / Body Thetans in Scientology came from.

Being a science fiction writer, and already having used the concepts of theta and thetans, he came with the Xenu story. That was actually one of his biggest mistakes. He probably could have gotten away with saying that the BT phenomenon arises simply due to supply and demand -- Too many Thetans believing they need bodies, and far too few bodies. Or he could have come up with a BT origin story that was more vague, esoteric, woo woo and, well, not stupid. A lot of stories would have sufficed, and would have been accepted later (or indeed at the time) by many as allegorical. As you said, it is fucking hard to accept allegorical DC-8s.

EDITED TO ADD:

*Exorcism is a subset of ritual purification. Psychologically: (a) the assignment of all that is negative or undesirable to something other than "self"; and, then (b) the elimination of that tainted, aberrated, undesirable, dirty and/or evil "thing." The Reactive Mind of Dianetics is a simple form of the same thing. When eliminating the Reactive Mind was found to be insufficient, Hubbard found the need to eliminate -- exorcise -- one's BTs.

 

[anonomog]

Painting people as one dimensional extremists is simply labelling, victim blaming an attempt to position himself as a victim. He is also aligning the cult as benevolent middle grounders with him.

It is only ex community that tries to split scientology from the church. Never ins ie the public at large and firmly ins make no such distinction. Why would the public even care?

What he conveniently leaves out is that despite his Middle Way and saint like honesty he was stalked and harassed for years until he had to go to court to make it stop. The Squirrel Busters were a direct attack on him practising scientology supposedly. If the great middle pather was really one there would be equal disdain for the church and practices like disconnection. Instead he is trying to generalise the normal social behaviour of distancing self from abusive people to enforced disconnection. How abusive or destructive could Suri possibly be to Tom Cruise?

If Tom de Vocht was passionately advocating against drunk driving, because his life and family was destroyed by it, no one would be surprised or see him as an extremist. There would be no question why "just one glass" drivers would get on his nerves especially if they are insisting that the one glass makes them better drivers. Regardless if the analogy seems extreme, the emotions felt are exactly the same and an observer with any empathy will see it. Why wouldn't people who have been hurt have strong beliefs and why wouldn't they argue the point? Why are they not allowed to? Why wouldn't a friend ask pointed questions without worrying about a political ly correct minefield?

Tolerance and middle paths are good things. If the middle is the middle. But exactly how balanced is the preacher of the middle path when he predicts someone will end up mindless and homeless without addressing why the loathesome extremist feels like he does?

 

[Pierrot]

You may be right that handling the critics takes priority over the Freezone/Indies, but the FZ'er/Indies aren't "small fish". More Scientology gets done outside of the CoS than IN, and whether they're squirrelly or not is irrelevant when it comes to finances. If squirrel organizations can successfully attract those individuals interested in Scientology then they're hurting the CoS financially.

Whether CoS can do anything effective to counter the Indie/FZ'er' competition now (or not) in the age of the internet is a different issue. But history shows that they would do something IF they could.

The real priority though of the COS may be on something completely different from either of those things mentioned above. Their real focus seems to be on continuing their Ideal Real Estate Scam, extracting money from the Whales, and I bet much of their income also comes from investing the billions of dollars they're sitting on.

Delivering Scientology and suppressing the squirrels seems to take a back seat to both of those objectives.

I agree. However you omit to mention the fact those freezonies/indies are mainly, especially at its inception, guys the church didn't want getting services from guys the church didn't want. The Bridge was said to be denied for such guys FOREVER. There is no financial loss for the church thus.

You have out of the church also guys who were kicked out or mishandled and wanted to attack the church to destroy it utterly, and some after some sessions cooled down rekindled their personal purpose and got on with Life, living Life to the fullest. Attacking freezonies/indies could be akin to kicking a wasp's nest, counter-productive financially.

Then you have people that would be considered illegal pcs but some would be accepted outside of the church, like certified practicing psychologists or psychiatrists who would like auditing. No financial loss either.

Then attacking loonies who chase Marcabian flies or communicate telepathically with Ron and other squirrels would grant them too much importance.

So back then the church created freezone and indie field, causatively. The church uses policies written during the Cold War era, and society then wasn't orientated towards recycling, waste disposal etc. as it is nowadays. Freezonies/Indies fill a function cleaning up. Some of them at least, I guess ;-)

 

[ExposedPerfidy]

Scientology Koan Du Jour: If OT III - OT VIII is all an allegory, why do OTs buy and take two (2) meters into every BT blowing session?

Was LRH being allegorical when he asked Pfauth to build him that e-meter of death?

 

[Aerial]

What I wouldn't give to see a Marty Vs Marty video

 

[Veda]

-snip-

More Scientology gets done outside of the CoS than IN

Even if you just mean "doing auditing and training" when you wrote "Scientology gets done," that would be a questionable assertion. There are very few active "Freezoners" and "Independent Scientologists" actually auditing and training. A few dabble. Most just like to chat about it.

The real priority though of the COS may be on something completely different from either of those things mentioned above. Their real focus seems to be on continuing their Ideal Real Estate Scam, extracting money from the Whales, and I bet much of their income also comes from investing the billions of dollars they're sitting on.

Delivering Scientology and suppressing the squirrels seems to take a back seat to both of those objectives.

 

[Veda]

-snip-

you omit to mention the fact those freezonies/indies are mainly, especially at its inception, guys the church didn't want getting services from guys the church didn't want. The Bridge was said to be denied for such guys FOREVER. There is no financial loss for the church thus.

During the early 1980s, e-meter equipped teams were dispatched to handle and reclaim "ARC broken Field."

There was extensive harassment, and also infiltration.

You have out of the church also guys who were kicked out or mishandled and wanted to attack the church to destroy it utterly, and some after some sessions cooled down rekindled their personal purpose and got on with Life, living Life to the fullest. Attacking freezonies/indies could be akin to kicking a wasp's nest, counter-productive financially.

Most freezoners/indies are too old and feeble to do much of anything.

Then you have people that would be considered illegal pcs but some would be accepted outside of the church, like certified practicing psychologists or psychiatrists who would like auditing. No financial loss either.

Scn Inc. has no problem taking such people as pcs if they have enough money.

Then attacking loonies who chase Marcabian flies or communicate telepathically with Ron and other squirrels would grant them too much importance.

It's funny watching Scientologists, of whatever stripe, attempting to distance themselves from Scientology beliefs. Marcabians and telepathy are pure Scientology. One can always spot a Scientologist; he'll dismiss these beliefs with a dismissive smirk while, in some vague manner, defending Scientology.

So back then the church created freezone and indie field, causatively.

Nonsense. It was a spasm of irrational anger from Hubbard, expressed through Miscavige, that led to the "schism" of the early 1980s.

The church uses policies written during the Cold War era, and society then wasn't orientated towards recycling, waste disposal etc. as it is nowadays. Freezonies/Indies fill a function cleaning up. Some of them at least, I guess ;-)

Probably half of the current crop of aging and feeble "Indies" are vulnerable to being duped into supporting some sort of "indie" front group overseen by Scn Inc.

End of derail. Thread is now back on topic.

 

[Boson Wog Stark]

I suspect Marty is referring to Louis Theroux's "My Scientology Movie". Going by Marty's own timeline in that video, the movie is the only time Marty and Tom DeVocht have been on-camera together and it is the only opportunity Marty has had, as he says, to "do a show" in order to "establish some objectivity with respect to Scientology". out as clearly as he can. With a raised voice, he tells Louis

It's a powerful moment. Tom's sincerity is undeniable. Louis appears, finally, to have got it. Marty, on the other hand, looks chagrined. He knew he'd just been called out for being someone who still believes in "a little bit of" Scientology and is most definitely one of the people Tom wants to shake and tell "you've just got to fucking stop".

Its ironic that if Marty had followed that advice to stop at the time he would not have degraded himself so thoroughly on such an international scale by his own behaviour as shown in the rest of the movie.

Thanks for explaining that. So that's what they were in together! I saw MY SCIENTOLOGY MOVIE and if I didn't get what Marty was referring to, what is it going to mean to people who didn't even see the movie? I guess it was forbidden for Marty to mention the movie he practically starred in, given the Hole scene.

It's too bad there isn't a device like the e-meter, which can date past life incidents to the nearest second with certainty, but instead this device would determine what percentage of Scientology bullshit an ex-member still believes.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Even if you just mean "doing auditing and training" when you wrote "Scientology gets done," that would be a questionable assertion. There are very few active "Freezoners" and "Independent Scientologists" actually auditing and training. A few dabble. Most just like to chat about it.

My assertion was based upon some postings I saw some time back here on ESMB which I didn't see anyone challenge. But perhaps what I read was BS.

CoS claims millions of Scientologists which don't exist, perhaps the FZ/Indies follow that tradition.

 

[Tanchi]

What I wouldn't give to see a Marty Vs Marty video

Absolutely! And a book titled TRUTHLESS, filled with direct contradictions, and best of natterchatter from the blog.

 

[Terril park]

PIERROT
"You have out of the church also guys who were kicked out or mishandled and wanted to attack the church to destroy it utterly, and some after some sessions cooled down rekindled their personal purpose and got on with Life, living Life to the fullest. Attacking freezonies/indies could be akin to kicking a wasp's nest, counter-productive financially."

ME
This has been shown to be correct. CO$ had an OSA programme,
available on Marty's Blog to destroy Rons Orgs. In order to protect
themselves ROs have webbed most Scn materials in Holland
where they can not be attacked by copyright laws, and thus anyone
anywhere may access them.

VEDA
"Most freezoners/indies are too old and feeble to do much of anything. "


ME
I think there is some truth there. However CO$ is FAR less able to
do anything. They have empty buildings.

" The scene in Los Angeles is mirrored at St Hill UK,where the briefing
course originated. However as of Feb 2015, not only has there been no
briefing course completions, there had been no auditor training completions
of any sort. [Rinder 2015]" ( from my paper on CO$ and Freezone)

Auditor training is available and being delivered in the FZ in
several locations. Rons Orgs and Dror are excellent examples.

One Scn facebook group, I'm an Admin, currently has around
two requests to join per day.

Unfortunately I think the horrendously bad PR generated by
CO$ results in a smaller reach for Scn anywhere else.

 

[George Layton]

Good post!

Yes, as you point out--at one point in time Marty headed the "MODERATE" Indie movement.

He was bending over backwards in an attempt to mainstream the cult's beliefs and practices. For example he tried to solve the humiliating "Xenu" problem by claiming (without a shred of evidence) that Hubbard meant the story in an allegorical way. I remember the lunacy of those discussions. Unless I have suddenly developed a memory deficiency, I don't recall anything in the advanced OT levels about allegorical DC-8s, allegorical volcanos or allegorical BTs or allegorical donations for hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay for my allegorical tech estimate.

Anybody receive a bank statement reflecting in your checking account that the COS only allegorically cashed (but not in the physical world!) the checks you handed them?

There were so many incredibly stupid moments in Rathbun's post-COS "INDIE & BEYOND" adventures---but that one ("It's a modern science--no wait--it's an allegory!") has got to be the current leading contender to win the category of:

"No really, you're definitely joking, right?"
HALL OF FAME


​

Scientology Koan Du Jour: If OT III - OT VIII is all an allegory, why do OTs buy and take two (2) meters into every BT blowing session?


Hold on, I hear something coming in on the telex lines.......

I think the Marty has been able to illuminate everyone as to his OTIIIness in Martyworld. With his current videos he has brought everyone to the cognition (in regard to all his past blog shaped ramblings) of exactly who Marty wasn't.