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Marty Rathbun raises his head, and starts squawking PART 2

ExposedPerfidy said:
Radar Online shamefully promotes Rathbun's videos (I'm using an archive link so as to not give them clicks). I'm afraid we're going to see more of this. During the first season of Aftermath the CoS would send response letters to the various news outlets which covered the series. They'll probably do the same thing once season 2 starts, and this time they'll likely mention Marty's videos in their letters. The outlets will probably publish the response letters just like they did during the first season, thereby giving more attention to Marty's bullshit.
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Radar Online forwarded Marty's false claim that it's scripted. It was completely unscripted and conversational, as viewers can plainly see. More Marty bullshit.
 
It wouldn't be very smart business for The Troika, whoever that is, to pay actors where the Church of Scientology provides PI theatre everywhere they go.
 

I am missing something.
Who is the main intended audience for Marty's video(s)? Staffers & public who are still in who would have confirmation bias? :confused2:
The people who have blown are not going to buy into this.
The real main purpose of this video still eludes me.


I am not wondering about Marty doing ethics A-E or not. I am wondering about the CofS purpose.
 
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programmer_guy said:

I am missing something.
Who is the main intended audience for Marty's video(s)? Staffers & public who are still in who would have confirmation bias? :confused2:
The people who have blown are not going to buy into this.
The real main purpose of this video still eludes me.


I am not wondering about Marty doing ethics A-E or not. I am wondering about the CofS purpose.
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Wog thoughts detected. OK.

Besides various scientologists, the intended audience could be DM. That's just speculation though. I don't get why they would make all of them if it weren't intended to some group of people. Seems like an awful lot of work for one guy to do, who doesn't seem particularly interested in what he is saying, not bothering to fact check anything. The 'text of his words' to me read like Marty and a group of nasty people got together and thought their alternative facts and lies would be believable. It seems like Marty is responding to questions, from an interviewer, about thing he doesn't know anything about and has notes to help him keep track of his lies.

Another theory would be the target audience are ex-scientologists to whip them up into talking about Marty instead of the Church's abuses.

Some media has started picking up on his distortions and sometimes report on them as though they're facts without doing fact checking. But to anyone those facts would matter to, Marty's stories would seem like fake news.

The purpose I think is illusory mostly because you don't agree with Scientology's position on suppressive persons. The videos are about SPs.
 
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Is it possible that Marty is "grooming" himself to be a "safe" Mass Media, Scn Cult talking head Consultant?

To be honest....I haven't watched one of his vids....

But, I suppose one could hire oneself out to any Media that wants a talking head about the Cult....??

I don't know if anyone could make a living out of this..

Is Marty trying to set himself up to be this guy...? Or is the Cult trying to set him up to be that guy?

Edited:

But in these days on the interwebs....and places like ESMB to refute his claims...and all the others out of the Cult to refute his stories...I don't see how this is possible.
 
programmer_guy said:

I am missing something.
Who is the main intended audience for Marty's video(s)? Staffers & public who are still in who would have confirmation bias? :confused2:
The people who have blown are not going to buy into this.
The real main purpose of this video still eludes me.


I am not wondering about Marty doing ethics A-E or not. I am wondering about the CofS purpose.
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Don't over think it - they aren't that smart.
It's for David "the duke" Miscavage's enjoyment. He's flipping the bird at us, showing his contempt for Marty by demeaning him, the poor sap. They both know it is BS. They just don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks. Marty's in it for the money, David for the nasty fun of it. The grade school neener neener of it. It's reallllly pathetic.

Mimsey

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programmer_guy said:

I am missing something.
Who is the main intended audience for Marty's video(s)? Staffers & public who are still in who would have confirmation bias? :confused2:
The people who have blown are not going to buy into this.
The real main purpose of this video still eludes me.


I am not wondering about Marty doing ethics A-E or not. I am wondering about the CofS purpose.
Click to expand...

I'm leaning towards the idea that this is intended for people who are still in the church but are having doubts. For example, take a look at the response to the Aftermath episode that had Tom De Vocht. De Vocht said on that episode that Miscavige revealed to him OT IX hasn't been completed by Hubbard, Rathbun tried to cast doubt on De Vocht's claim. Focusing on this subject doesn't make sense if these videos are intended for never-ins. Even most of the never-ins who are relatively knowledgeable about Scientology (due watching Leah Remini or some documentary) are probably not very interested in the subject of unreleased OT levels. They don't know that much about Scientology so as to realize why this subject is significant. Likewise, all that Scientology jargon that they need to decipher in order to understand this issue probably deters them. Most wogs would rather focus on easier to understand matters such as disconnection, fair game and financial exploitation. There are of course some never-ins who are interested in this subject because they're heavy Scientology watchers, but in the larger wog world they are a tiny minority.

Then you have the exes and indies. I'm a never-in so I'm not too familiar with the experiences of the typical ex, but somehow I doubt that most exes and indies left because this or that former executive said that there are no levels above OT VIII. I don't see why a video aimed at exes/indies should delve into this issue.

Dealing with this issue would however make sense if the videos are aimed at people who are still in. I gather that many justify staying in the church and all it entails by telling themselves that everything would get better once they complete OT IX & X. They'll probably leave if someone would convince them that the bridge ends at OT VIII. Unreleased (i.e nonexistant) OT levels are an insignificant issue when it comes to repairing Scientology's image amongst outsiders, but it is important for membership retention. "Pay no attention to what Tom De Vocht says about OT IX, he doesn't know what's he talking about!"
 
programmer_guy said:

I am missing something.
Who is the main intended audience for Marty's video(s)? Staffers & public who are still in who would have confirmation bias? :confused2:
The people who have blown are not going to buy into this.
The real main purpose of this video still eludes me.


I am not wondering about Marty doing ethics A-E or not. I am wondering about the CofS purpose.
Click to expand...
Non-Scientology public. Those who Scientologists refer to as, "wogs."

Marty's videos are NOT being promoted to Sea Org, Class V Staff, or Scientology public at all.

Marty's videos are being promoted to non-Scientology public -- those who Scientologists refer to as "wogs" -- on YouTube, Twitter, etc.

You may say it is ineffective, and I might agree. But the purpose of the COS is clearly to use Marty to undermine all recent "entheta" -- e.g., Going Clear the book, Going Clear the movie, My Scientology Movie, Leah Remini's show -- in the eyes of the general, non-Scientology, "wog" public

Remember your Scientology training, and in particular the dictum, "the wrong thing to do is nothing." They truly believe, because Ron told them so, that it is ALWAYS the case that, "the wrong thing to do is nothing." It doesn't occur to them that what they are doing (and I'm not speaking so much here about Marty's videos as the disgusting DA pages) is only making matters worse.

Leaving that aside, Leah's show has been devastating in a way even the movie Going Clear was not because of its accessibility (being on basic cable), as a result larger audience, and length -- HOURS of footage, and now a second season. Add to that the first season is now showing in Great Britain, Germany, France, Asia (I've seen listings on the Crime and Investigation channel in Taiwan). I don't blame them for thinking that they had to do something. Marty is part of the public response, but only a part.
 
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CommunicatorIC said:
Non-Scientology public. Those who Scientologists refer to as, "wogs."

Marty's videos are NOT being promoted to Sea Org, Class V Staff, or Scientology public at all.

Marty's videos are being promoted to non-Scientology public -- those who Scientologists refer to as "wogs" -- on YouTube, Twitter, etc.

You may say it is ineffective, and I might agree. But the purpose of the COS is clearly to use Marty to undermine all recent "entheta" -- e.g., Going Clear the book, Going Clear the movie, My Scientology Movie, Leah Remini's show -- in the eyes of the general, non-Scientology, "wog" public

<snip>
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So, maybe the reason for Marty's long pauses is because he is translating his SCN thoughts/language into WOG language for this non-Scientology public video? :confused2:
 
programmer_guy said:

I am missing something.
Who is the main intended audience for Marty's video(s)? Staffers & public who are still in who would have confirmation bias? :confused2:
The people who have blown are not going to buy into this.
The real main purpose of this video still eludes me.


I am not wondering about Marty doing ethics A-E or not. I am wondering about the CofS purpose.
Click to expand...
If you look at Miscavage's behavior over the years - musical chairs, the hole, Debbie in a trash can with a sign reading lesbian being inundated with cold water, living on a floor covered with ants, licking the floor of the hole clean, writing up fake overts - this Marty video series is just another example of the same sick shit he does. Marty needs the money and is being demeaned by Miscavage to get it. It's not that complicated.

The real question, is why Marty walked away from a winning law suit to hew to this course? Why was this a better option than a protracted expensive legal battle?
Mimsey
 
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TheOriginalBigBlue said:
Right! Tom is another perfect example of what happens when you try to take on the role of spokesperson. This is why they must lean so heavily on front groups - not to just safepoint the environment and establish beach heads into institutions - it’s because Scientology itself is toxic kryptonite.

I think in later years LRH must have presented a very poor personal appearance, obese, bad teeth, a chain smoker. He would have been a visual example of duplicity. He is making everyone else run around in rubberized suits and baking in saunas but did he ever do this himself out there in the La Quinta or Hemet desert? The Way to Happiness tells everyone to take care of their teeth but is he only telling us this now because he regrets neglecting his own so badly? He liked to surround himself with beautiful people. Ex-CMO guys, tell me I’m wrong - that there was no beautiful people criteria for selecting Messengers. The pinnacle of Scientology was supposed to portray an image of vitality and perfection that LRH himself could not live up to.

It is this duplicity problem that handicaps Scientology spokespeople. Scientologists are supposed to be advanced, sophisticated, above the fray, composed and exuding serenity of beingness. Tommy’s in-your-face spittle fest might have been in perfect form per the OSA playbook but it didn’t comport with public expectation.

DM didn’t come across on Nightline as someone in control and confidant of their position - he came across as defensive, offended, manipulative and dominating. He alone sets the tone for OSA and so it is that OSA is all these things and OSA is quite literally Scientology PR so whenever they do what they do it looks bad.

Scientology exists in a kind of continually resetting time loop where everything must be forgotten within 5 years. At least that is one of the lessons I took away from my time in the Sea Org. I thought the massive RPF evolution in the late 70s was unique, a desperate response to desperate times. We were under attack by the great conspiracy. This was the Church’s version of the Inquisition, an aberration, and eventually LRH and the higher ups would do a data analysis and figure out what was going on and everything would be fixed. Scientology would become the shining civilization on the hill - never happened. Now we know they did this on the ships at the first opportunity LRH felt he had enough control to get away with it. It must have been frustrating to have to wait so long until he could throw people in the chain locker, over board and into the bilge. Then comes the Hole. This was Scientology, it's own self realization of potential, the ability for one man to crush another without restraint. If you change enough posts, transfers, disappear people to the RPF or meekly doing some subservient lower conditions, without access to outside information, no one is allowed to talk about the things that don’t make sense, ethics orders blame everything on someone else, texts advices policies and history are constantly shredded and revised, the fine art of reinterpreting statistics to support PR or rationalize punishment is institutionalized - it becomes a real life version of Dark City where reality and expectations constantly reset.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_City_(1998_film)

Scientology Media Productions presents a serious dilemma for DM. He has to know that it just is not possible to make any kind of public statement about Scientology that can’t be fact checked in a way to make them look bad. Just look at the Superbowl ads. What a bunch of mealy mouthed mush. You can keep that up for 60 seconds but to maintain ongoing TV programming, yeah right! I think SMP is and always was never going to amount to much more than an upgrade for Freedom Magazine (read: Scientology Pravda) and OSA PR. If Marty is doing these vids in cooperation with the Church then it is probably coming out of SMP or with their people. This probably is the SMP programming that we have all been waiting for.

I don’t think it is possible for DM to not be obsessing over this. I think DM and Marty have taken up real estate in each other’s heads and because they both have so much dirt on each other they can’t let go and they can’t neutralize the other side. LRH micromanaged absolutely everything. How can we possibly expect that this would not be the case with DM? At least LRH could delegate by playing on people’s good nature to build loyalty and carefully utilizing their particular aptitudes. Sure he would eventually get around to crushing them and tossing them under the bus after sucking them dry but now it seems more like crush them first then use them for whatever they might be good at. But then again, maybe LRH would be envious to not have to be so diplomatic.
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From reading your posts, I'm liking the the idea of David Miscavige's psychological game with Marty.

Besides the practical side of removing Marty as a witness to Miscavige's abuses, and shutting down what could have been a trial turned spectacle, and slowing Ray Jeffrey's rise as a star attorney in cases against Scientology, Miscavige thought he's equalizing the score by taking this loose canon, which Marty had become ever since he started blogging, and turning it on all the critics of Scientology. Just blow them all to pieces. Pouw, pouw, pouw.

And speaking of Pouw, he can't have her on TV, ever, because Tommy Davis in his worst spit fest was more glamorous than she could be at this stage, especially if she faltered when pressed to answer questions about the whereabouts of Shelly, or the beating of underlings. One of her puppet strings might get snagged in the cameras.

So let's get hours of Marty on video, making a fool of himself with all his stammering, pregnant pauses, twitches, bad grammar, highfalutin words and expressions (half of which he doesn't use properly), reversed positions, revisionist history, and elaborate theories about things like the ASC troika.

What happened to Dave and Tom palling around together -- like TomKat, Dave and his date Lou at the races? Maybe they're saving that for a special show in the SMP's fall lineup?

Dave has turned into the cheese that stands alone. Time to send in a medal-wearing Tom Cruise to open the new ideal orgs so Dave can retire to a Bluebird. Marty will be able to take care of the entheta.
 
Hubris.
There is a whole lot of hubris going on. Maybe it should be called ruebris.
Miscavige will be relishing the perceived degradation of Marty and Marty will be relishing the perceived degradation of well, everyone else.
It doesn't have to make sense to onlookers. It doesn't matter if it brings ruin to themselves, this is all pleasure.



The most-important discussion of hubris in antiquity is by Aristotle in his Rhetoric:

Hubris consists in doing and saying things that cause shame to the victim…simply for the pleasure of it. Retaliation is not hubris, but revenge.…Young men and the rich are hubristic because they think they are better than other people.
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https://www.britannica.com/topic/hubris

In ancient Athens, hubris was defined as the use of violence to shame the victim (this sense of hubris could also characterize rape[6]). Aristotle defined hubris as shaming the victim, not because of anything that happened to the committer or might happen to the committer, but merely for that committer's own gratification:
to cause shame to the victim, not in order that anything may happen to you, nor because anything has happened to you, but merely for your own gratification. Hubris is not the requital of past injuries; this is revenge. As for the pleasure in hubris, its cause is this: naive men think that by ill-treating others they make their own superiority the greater.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris
 
programmer_guy said:

I am missing something.
Who is the main intended audience for Marty's video(s)? Staffers & public who are still in who would have confirmation bias? :confused2:
The people who have blown are not going to buy into this.
The real main purpose of this video still eludes me.


I am not wondering about Marty doing ethics A-E or not. I am wondering about the CofS purpose.
Click to expand...

It's for Marty to watch and tell himself, "See that! I knew I was right!"
 
Boson Wog Stark said:
From reading your posts, I'm liking the the idea of David Miscavige's psychological game with Marty.

Besides the practical side of removing Marty as a witness to Miscavige's abuses, and shutting down what could have been a trial turned spectacle, and slowing Ray Jeffrey's rise as a star attorney in cases against Scientology, Miscavige thought he's equalizing the score by taking this loose canon, which Marty had become ever since he started blogging, and turning it on all the critics of Scientology. Just blow them all to pieces. Pouw, pouw, pouw.

And speaking of Pouw, he can't have her on TV, ever, because Tommy Davis in his worst spit fest was more glamorous than she could be at this stage, especially if she faltered when pressed to answer questions about the whereabouts of Shelly, or the beating of underlings. One of her puppet strings might get snagged in the cameras.

So let's get hours of Marty on video, making a fool of himself with all his stammering, pregnant pauses, twitches, bad grammar, highfalutin words and expressions (half of which he doesn't use properly), reversed positions, revisionist history, and elaborate theories about things like the ASC troika.

What happened to Dave and Tom palling around together -- like TomKat, Dave and his date Lou at the races? Maybe they're saving that for a special show in the SMP's fall lineup?

Dave has turned into the cheese that stands alone. Time to send in a medal-wearing Tom Cruise to open the new ideal orgs so Dave can retire to a Bluebird. Marty will be able to take care of the entheta.
Click to expand...

If you strip away all the fluff, at the core of Scientology was one man's power to break people and rebuild their personalities to their advantage. That was LRH's game. I think he must have taken personal enjoyment and satisfaction out of it and this is what I see now. LRH deliberately made everything complicated and so outrageous that it created a smoke screen of plausible deniability by making people over think everything trying to understand the underlying motivations or just not wanting to deal with it at all. I think Stephen Kent is correct in characterizing LRH as a malignant narcissist. He was manipulative and vindictive. He spoke about Pavlov making the dogs neurotic by ringing the bell, feed the dog, ring the bell, beat the dog. In Scientology it translates into things like give them a commendation, give them an ethics chit. Head fuckery for the sake of head fuckery. There doesn't need to be any great organizational, legal or PR plan - just continue with Marty where you left off, messing with his head in the Hole. The ultimate goal is to get people so twisted around that they do it all on their own.

I think the thing that really sets the hook is making people accomplices in the abuse. If you have been victimized it is easier to decompress and identify the causation behind what happened but if you were willingly contributing to the abuse then it's much harder to recognize and accept that the reasons you did these things was so completely wrong and illogical or solely due to something in your personal nature. There are a lot of workable things in Scientology, like the 5 flows:

Flow 1: What others did to you.
Flow 2: What you did to others.
Flow 3: What others did to others.
Flow 4: What you did to yourself.
Flow 5: What others did to themselves.

Only the thing that works best is how to mess with people's heads.

I just watched Louis Theroux's "My Scientology Movie" on Netflix. All things considered, I think Marty did quite well. The things that I thought that I observed about Marty are all very much within the realm of what could be expected from someone who had that kind of history. Maybe a lot of people who are not familiar with the subject won't get that but if they continue to increase their understanding of the subject then I think they ultimately will.
 
programmer_guy said:

I am missing something.
Who is the main intended audience for Marty's video(s)? Staffers & public who are still in who would have confirmation bias? :confused2:
The people who have blown are not going to buy into this.
The real main purpose of this video still eludes me.


I am not wondering about Marty doing ethics A-E or not. I am wondering about the CofS purpose.
Click to expand...


I don't think they ever think like that.

The church never evaluates its actions in terms of an actual audience; what actual effect their actions create.

However they did it, they got Marty to spew this bullshit on camera. They think they'll put it on the internet, plug some ads on You Tube, put it on their anti-Leah website, and that will "handle the entheta". No concept of what actual effect it will create on the non-Scientology world, which is none.

It's basically like those program targets we used to have to do. "BOOM YOUR ORG TO SAINT HILL SIZE" Program. First target is to get a banner that says "WE'RE GOING SAINT HILL SIZE". Put it up, take a picture of it, send a compliance report. Never mind you're an org that has 4 part time staff. You go through the motions to make yourself and the people uplines look like you're actually doing something.

Or, like when Time put out that big expose on them (late 80s? early 90s?) The church's answer was to put together this booklet "The Story that Time Couldn't Tell" about how Time Magazine was being run by Big Pharma. No one ever read it; the reporters who wrote the Time article got journalism prizes. But the church acted like they had actually created some huge effect with this stupid booklet that essentially was only known about by Scientologists.

None of this stuff makes a dent in the world outside of Scientology. At the end of the day, Scientology has no idea really how to create an effect in the world; not one they want to create, anyway.
 
I cannot understand why Marty would say there's been no serious allegations against Scientology in the last ten years?? I know, I know . . . its Scientology, of course it doesn't make sense. And, fact is, its the recent serious allegations against Scientology which are attracting more and more public attention. My overall impression of Marty's video series is that he is trying to convince himself of a whole new reality. He's not having much luck, though. There really is very little agreement.

I got caught by the boss watching a Marty video at work the other day. I got a fright when I saw him standing at my desk and made such a cock-up of trying to hide it, I ended up pausing the video but making it full-screen. The boss was lovely about it. He pretended he hadn't noticed while we had a work related chat. As he was about to leave he looked at the screen and asked "who is that?"

"Marty Rathbun", I replied. "He's a Scientologist"

Before wandering off, the boss said "he's got the expression of a man who has just seen the police arrive to dig up his basement."
 
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