So, who runs things nowadays?

[Karakorum]

I've been entirely out of the loop for over 10 years. I've been trying to look up some information about the current management.

Some things were easy as pie and took 3 secs of searching. But I'm at a puzzle about many more. CoS pulled the info from the public sites it seems.

I read allegations that DM has intentionally left some key posts vacant, to paralyze the potential challengers from combining their forces to enact a shift in policy or even change the COB. Which would leave a heck of a power vacuum should he pass away. But I digress...

My question was: Who runs these things today?

• Who heads COS Flag service org. Inc.?
• Who heads IAS?
• Who is the current ED for WISE West US?
• Who heads OSA?
• How does the leadership structure of the ethics branch look now? When I left, we had vacant positions above us and my key peers were demoted executives from other places.
• Who is now the CAD (Cultural Affairs Director)?
• How is the legal branch now structured and who heads it?
• Is crisis management still a thing? Seemed moribund when I was leaving.
• Who is the public affairs global ED within CST?
• What is the current composition of the board of Directors of CoS Int. ?

 

[Type4_PTS]

While the following doesn't answer your questions above, you might find it interesting.

Per an attorney (who happens to be the former Chief Justice of the Texas Supreme Court) that was representing David Miscavige or one of the other defendants in the Rathbun lawsuit, the Sea Organization has no legal or physical existence.

Excerpted from The Scientology Money Project:
https://scientologymoneyproject.com/2015/02/26/the-sea-org-fact-or-fiction/

Former Texas Supreme Court Chief Justice Wallace Jefferson was then one of twenty-two lawyers working for David Miscavige and the other defendants in Rathbun v. Miscavige et. al. in Comal County, Texas. Mr. Jefferson stated in his Writ of Mandamus:

“Plaintiff asserts that Mr. Miscavige exercised control because he leads the Sea Organization, a religious order within Scientology. But the ‘Sea Org’ is not a corporate entity; it has no physical or legal existence. It is not incorporated or established pursuant to legal formalities. It has no constitution, charter or bylaws, and no formal or informal ecclesiastical, corporate, or other management structure. It has no directors, officers, managing agents, or other executives; no employees, staff members, or volunteers; no income; no disbursements, no bank accounts or other assets; no liabilities; no stationery; no office, home, address, or telephone number. It does not create or maintain any financial, personnel, or other records. It can neither give nor receive orders because it has no one to either give or receive them or to carry them out. It cannot sue or be sued. (MR1810-12 at ¶13.) The evidence Mrs. Rathbun has submitted fails to establish a prima facie basis for an alter ego finding, because none of it involves the defendants’ purported contacts relating to this suit, nor does any of it speak to the organizations’ current practices.”

 

[Karakorum]

While the following doesn't answer your questions above, you might find it interesting.
Per an attorney (who happens to be the former Chief Justice of the Texas Supreme Court) that was representing David Miscavige or one of the other defendants in the Rathbun lawsuit, the Sea Organization has no legal or physical existence.

Legalese sophistry. How is it possible that... Sea org has no existence, yet FSO Inc. was a recognized plantiff in a case:
https://openjurist.org/2/f3d/1514/c...flag-service-org-inc-v-city-of-clearwater-a-e

I'm not criticizing you or your post btw. Rather just pointing out the absurdities in the US legal system. I guess they would argue that FSO is not Sea Org.

 

[Type4_PTS]

I've been entirely out of the loop for over 10 years. I've been trying to look up some information about the current management.

Some things were easy as pie and took 3 secs of searching. But I'm at a puzzle about many more. CoS pulled the info from the public sites it seems.

I read allegations that DM has intentionally left some key posts vacant, to paralyze the potential challengers from combining their forces to enact a shift in policy or even change the COB. Which would leave a heck of a power vacuum should he pass away. But I digress...

My question was: Who runs these things today?

• Who heads COS Flag service org. Inc.?
• Who heads IAS?
• Who is the current ED for WISE West US?
• Who heads OSA?
• How does the leadership structure of the ethics branch look now? When I left, we had vacant positions above us and my key peers were demoted executives from other places.
• Who is now the CAD (Cultural Affairs Director)?
• How is the legal branch now structured and who heads it?
• Is crisis management still a thing? Seemed moribund when I was leaving.
• Who is the public affairs global ED within CST?
• What is the current composition of the board of Directors of CoS Int. ?

As of April, 2015, Linda Hamel was the CO OSA INT, and Warren McShane was the President of RTC.
Mike Ellis was International Justice Chief.

Here's some others listed in Miscaviges's inner circle:
https://scientologymoneyproject.com/2015/04/08/scientologys-inner-circle/

 

[Type4_PTS]

Legalese sophistry. How is it possible that... Sea org has no existence, yet FSO Inc. was a recognized plantiff in a case:
https://openjurist.org/2/f3d/1514/c...flag-service-org-inc-v-city-of-clearwater-a-e

I'm not criticizing you or your post btw. Rather just pointing out the absurdities in the US legal system. I guess they would argue that FSO is not Sea Org.

The Flag Service Org DOES exist at a legal entity.

However the "Church of Scientology" does NOT.

Again, from the Scientology Money Project:
https://scientologymoneyproject.com...avige-does-not-run-the-church-of-scientology/


Captain David Miscavige Does Not Run the Church of Scientology

By Scientology Money Project on May 31, 2014 • ( 12 Comments )

The Church of Scientology is deliberately designed to be legally confusing, evasive, and dishonest.

One example: Technically speaking, the “Church of Scientology” does not exist and never has existed. Here is what the Church told the IRS in a 1993 submission:

<snip>
See Full Post: https://scientologymoneyproject.com...avige-does-not-run-the-church-of-scientology/

 

[Enthetan]

While the following doesn't answer your questions above, you might find it interesting.

Per an attorney (who happens to be the former Chief Justice of the Texas Supreme Court) that was representing David Miscavige or one of the other defendants in the Rathbun lawsuit, the Sea Organization has no legal or physical existence.

Excerpted from The Scientology Money Project:
https://scientologymoneyproject.com/2015/02/26/the-sea-org-fact-or-fiction/

Former Texas Supreme Court Chief Justice Wallace Jefferson was then one of twenty-two lawyers working for David Miscavige and the other defendants in Rathbun v. Miscavige et. al. in Comal County, Texas. Mr. Jefferson stated in his Writ of Mandamus:

“Plaintiff asserts that Mr. Miscavige exercised control because he leads the Sea Organization, a religious order within Scientology. But the ‘Sea Org’ is not a corporate entity; it has no physical or legal existence. It is not incorporated or established pursuant to legal formalities. It has no constitution, charter or bylaws, and no formal or informal ecclesiastical, corporate, or other management structure. It has no directors, officers, managing agents, or other executives; no employees, staff members, or volunteers; no income; no disbursements, no bank accounts or other assets; no liabilities; no stationery; no office, home, address, or telephone number. It does not create or maintain any financial, personnel, or other records. It can neither give nor receive orders because it has no one to either give or receive them or to carry them out. It cannot sue or be sued. (MR1810-12 at ¶13.) The evidence Mrs. Rathbun has submitted fails to establish a prima facie basis for an alter ego finding, because none of it involves the defendants’ purported contacts relating to this suit, nor does any of it speak to the organizations’ current practices.”

That may be true, in the same sense that the Mafia, the Bloods, the Crips, and MS-13 do not have legal existence, as a state chartered entity.

The Sea Org CAN be considered the name of a criminal conspiracy.

 

[Karakorum]

As of April, 2015, Linda Hamel was the CO OSA INT, and Warren McShane was the President of RTC.
Mike Ellis was International Justice Chief.

Here's some others listed in Miscaviges's inner circle:
https://scientologymoneyproject.com/2015/04/08/scientologys-inner-circle/

Thanks a bunch.

I was expecting Lynn Farny to be higher in status by now and hold some more relevant position. Either fell from grace, or holds some behind-the-scenes position. I know Quentin Strub is WISE ED US east still.
I'd expect these two heavyweights to be two possible candidates for the throne. Maybe that's why they don't hold more prominent positions, DM doesn't want them in the spotlight?

Also, where is R.Mithoff? Did he blow or something?

Other minor notes:

• Ah, McShane is still around? I can't imagine why they keep him there, he's dumb as a post.
• Linda? Never met her. But then again, I likewise have never seen Mike up close. While inside, I have seen him only during his speeches at a few official events. The relations between our respective services were not exactly stellar.
• Also I find it hilarious that your link identified the OSA head, but nothing about our service. I doubt falling star took the post. I imagine the position is still vacant after all those fricken years. Either that, or we are better than OSA at hiding from the public eye
• I read that Janet was deposed in some sort of palace coup. So what, IAS is now leaderless with a vacant top position? That'd be something.
• Glen Stilo - name rings a bell, but I can't currently recall when and what. I guess maybe he was in some entirely different position when I was inside and then they played musical chairs again. Which would explain why I can't connect the dots now. But the name is familiar.
• Ludwig Alpers, that would be the dad of Lori Alpers?

 

[Type4_PTS]

That may be true, in the same sense that the Mafia, the Bloods, the Crips, and MS-13 do not have legal existence, as a state chartered entity.

The Sea Org CAN be considered the name of a criminal conspiracy.

Yeah, but that's different.

You couldn't file a lawsuit against the Sea Org or against the Church of Scientology.

You'd have to name one or more of the individual corporate entities.

 

[Karakorum]

Yeah, but that's different.

You couldn't file a lawsuit against the Sea Org or against the Church of Scientology.

You'd have to name one or more of the individual corporate entities.

Yeah, but then you'd just file against FSO or CST or CoS Int.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Thanks a bunch.

I was expecting Lynn Farny to be higher in status by now and hold some more relevant position. Either fell from grace, or holds some behind-the-scenes position. I know Quentin Strub is WISE ED US east still.
I'd expect these two heavyweights to be two possible candidates for the throne. Maybe that's why they don't hold more prominent positions, DM doesn't want them in the spotlight?

Also, where is R.Mithoff? Did he blow or something?

Other minor notes:

• Ah, McShane is still around? I can't imagine why they keep him there, he's dumb as a post.
• Linda? Never met her. But then again, I likewise have never seen Mike up close. While inside, I have seen him only during his speeches at a few official events. The relations between our respective services were not exactly stellar.
• Also I find it hilarious that your link identified the OSA head, but nothing about our service. I doubt falling star took the post. I imagine the position is still vacant after all those fricken years. Either that, or we are better than OSA at hiding from the public eye
• I read that Janet was deposed in some sort of palace coup. So what, IAS is now leaderless with a vacant top position? That'd be something.
• Glen Stilo - name rings a bell, but I can't currently recall when and what. I guess maybe he was in some entirely different position when I was inside and then they played musical chairs again. Which would explain why I can't connect the dots now. But the name is familiar.
• Ludwig Alpers, that would be the dad of Lori Alpers?

The info source I quoted is 4 years old, so there could be changes since then.

I'm sure that some people could give a much more detailed account of who holds various management positions at present. It's not something I pay much attention to these days.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Yeah, but then you'd just file against FSO or CST or CoS Int.

Right. When Monique Rathbun filed suit it was against multiple entities:
https://tonyortega.org/2013/08/21/monique-rathbun-files-suit-against-scientology-over-harassment/

 

[Karakorum]

The info source I quoted is 4 years old, so there could be changes since then.

Yeah I know, but for me that's still much more recent info than what I had till now.

I'm sure that some people could give a much more detailed account of who holds various management positions at present. It's not something I pay much attention to these days.

I'm curious how stuff looks now. The structure was always heavily dependant on the individual personalities that ran things.

 

[Dulloldfart]

• Glen Stilo - name rings a bell, but I can't currently recall when and what. I guess maybe he was in some entirely different position when I was inside and then they played musical chairs again. Which would explain why I can't connect the dots now. But the name is familiar.

He was in OSA Int (Legal, I think, as he was involved in my visa/green card stuff) when I got there in 1986. He was married to Anna Stilo, now Anna Paddock. I don't know when he left OSA.

On that list, #18 Ryland Perkins (ASI) is almost certainly Ryland Hawkins.

Paul

 

[Type4_PTS]

Yeah I know, but for me that's still much more recent info than what I had till now.


I'm curious how stuff looks now. The structure was always heavily dependant on the individual personalities that ran things.

Miscavige had also given the rank of Captain to some of his dogs.

Not sure if they're still on post.

‘Scientology leader dresses his beagles as captains and makes followers salute them...'
https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/n...-as-captains-and-makes-followers-salute-them/

 

[Enthetan]

As of April, 2015, Linda Hamel was the CO OSA INT, and Warren McShane was the President of RTC.
Mike Ellis was International Justice Chief.

Here's some others listed in Miscaviges's inner circle:
https://scientologymoneyproject.com/2015/04/08/scientologys-inner-circle/

I knew Warren back around 1980. I would think he's fairly old now.

 

[Karakorum]

Miscavige had also given the rank of Captain to some of his dogs.

Oh, I thought you mean 'dogs' in a metaphorical sense. Guess not.
I do find the dog story questionable. First of all, it is a bit too similar to the one about Kaligula and his horse. Secondly, how would that compare to DM himself, did he promote himself to commodore now?

I mean I have been out of the loop for quite some time, but the sea dog story doesn't appear to hold water (pun intended).

 

[Karakorum]

I knew Warren back around 1980. I would think he's fairly old now.

What was your impression?

 

[HelluvaHoax!]

That may be true, in the same sense that the Mafia, the Bloods, the Crips, and MS-13 do not have legal existence, as a state chartered entity.

The Sea Org CAN be considered the name of a criminal conspiracy.

Exactly, gangs and organized crime syndicates do not file incorporation papers with governmental regulatory agencies.

The Sea Org, whilst never formally incorporated, appears to be one of the cults many DBAs (Degraded Being Associations).

.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Oh, I thought you mean 'dogs' in a metaphorical sense. Guess not.
I do find the dog story questionable. First of all, it is a bit too similar to the one about Kaligula and his horse. Secondly, how would that compare to DM himself, did he promote himself to commodore now?

I mean I have been out of the loop for quite some time, but the sea dog story doesn't appear to hold water (pun intended).

Lawrence Wright, a Pulitzer Prize-winning writer, is a very careful researcher, and I doubt he'd of written that unless multiple former staff members from the INT Base confirmed it.

It's not like these dogs really held that rank; but Miscavige did dress them up that way and made Sea Org members salute them just as another way he could degrade them. The more you read about Miscavige the more believable this is, and that's mild compared to many stories.

Have you read about what conditions were like in The Hole?

Or seen the testimony from the former Captain of FSO (Debbie Cook)?

 

[Karakorum]

Lawrence Wright, a Pulitzer Prize-winning writer, is a very careful researcher, and I doubt he'd of written that unless multiple former staff members from the INT Base confirmed it.

It's not like these dogs really held that rank; but Miscavige did dress them up that way and made Sea Org members salute them just as another way he could degrade them. The more you read about Miscavige the more believable this is, and that's mild compared to many stories.

Have you read about what conditions were like in The Hole?

Or seen the testimony from the former Captain of FSO (Debbie Cook)?

Violence and the hole are much more believable and substantiated. I heard some stuff about the violence even when I was in.

Again, not saying the dog thing is impossible. It just strikes me as weird that he would even in a symbolic sense grant them the same rank he held himself. Does not seem to fit into the personality types I imagine him to have (ESTJ or ENTJ).


Also, they had "over a 100 top executives" in the hole in 2007? Seriously, so many people? Who manned the management then?

I imagined it would be 15 peeps or so. If the list was so long, hell, maybe I dodged a bullet when I fled back in the day

Also... some time before that was when they pulled Roger out. I honestly assumed at the time that he went because of health issues (cancer from what I guessed), but maybe he got thrown in with them? Its certainly a possibility if it was over 100 peeps.