PTS - ness

[Voltaire's Child]

I could never full understand the PTS tech. As in, when I get sick. I thought it was because someone was suppressing me. Is this true? Now that I am no longer in belief of that tech stuff, I still tend to think about it when I get sick. Today I am feeling as if I am getting some flu bug. It's starting to feel like it's in my head, and kinda "out of comm", for lack of a better phrase. And I've been feeling this way for a few days. Now it's physical feelings, like a bug I've caught.

So I am falling back into my old scient. thinking, wondering who was suppressing me a few days ago. I used to do that all the time when I was on staff. What is all of that pts stuff about?

PTSness does not equal sickness (in Scn theory). Sickness is merely a symptom.

Anyone can be PTS and that doesn't mean they are or will become ill. If one is PTS, one is in contact with an SP or with someone whose actions remind the person of an earlier SP (PTS types 1 and 2, respectively) and is going effect of that. In other words: under stress. That can manifest itself as sickness or not.

Hubbard did say all sick persons are PTS, yes, but as I said, there's a lot more to it than that.

 

[Power Change]

Well I AM under an unusual amount of stress due to being out of work. A 40 hour week job, that is. And then Friday night I got a collection notice for something that I really don't owe on. And I called the collection place up and screamed bloody murder at the man. Other than that I am normal.

Oh and I work at a volunteer job at a women's shelter. There is a counselor there who goes to USC and there is a huge virus going around that college right now. Maybe some of that was hanging around her and I caught it. I was near her thursday night.

Yah I used to wonder if all of that PTS tech was true. I just think I catch illnesses when I am under stress more often than when I am not. While I was on staff I'd get sick every time I came back from visiting my family on holidays. hmmmm.

I look at it that you can only catch so many tennis balls thrown at you at once before you drop a bunch of them.

So when you add increased cortisol released in your body from stress (money, troubles etc) , added to poor sleep or little to no sleep, added to poor nutrition, added to being exposed to a 'virus or bacteria'....physically your body can get sick.

Stress, IMO, is rarely due to one person suppressing you. I would even challenge that the battered wife who eats well, exercises, and gets sleep...doesnt get 'sick' any more than someone under no suppression.

My advice Cin-, let go of 'there is something I am not doing or handling, there is someone suppressing me' stuff, and just call a spade a spade....

the spade being...if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck...it's a duck.

 

[cinamingrl]

pts

I look at it that you can only catch so many tennis balls thrown at you at once before you drop a bunch of them.

For sure, huge tennis balls too. More like basket balls.

So when you add increased cortisol released in your body from stress (money, troubles etc) , added to poor sleep or little to no sleep, added to poor nutrition, added to being exposed to a 'virus or bacteria'....physically your body can get sick.


Stress, IMO, is rarely due to one person suppressing you. I would even challenge that the battered wife who eats well, exercises, and gets sleep...doesnt get 'sick' any more than someone under no suppression.

Well I am still sleeping okay. But a few years ago I wasn't.

My advice Cin-, let go of 'there is something I am not doing or handling, there is someone suppressing me' stuff, and just call a spade a spade....

the spade being...if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck...it's a duck.

So would the duck be my flu? Or somebody in general?

 

[cinamingrl]

pts

If one is PTS, one is in contact with an SP or with someone whose actions remind the person of an earlier SP (PTS types 1 and 2, respectively) and is going effect of that. In other words: under stress. That can manifest itself as sickness or not.

I Wonder if my environment is doing this to me, in that there are certain types of people who are like my old roommates I had. But I don't really talk to these people or associate with them. They just live around me. And there is a landlord who reminds me of those types.

there are go again ruminating about who is suppressing me.

 

[Power Change]

So would the duck be my flu? Or somebody in general?

yes..the duck is that you had a few factors including exposure to a bug and you got sick...so I meant that it doesnt hold any other meaning like an sp and being pts...load of crap.

 

[Power Change]

I Wonder if my environment is doing this to me, in that there are certain types of people who are like my old roommates I had. But I don't really talk to these people or associate with them. They just live around me. And there is a landlord who reminds me of those types.

there are go again ruminating about who is suppressing me.

ignore this scientolgese explanations for being ill....
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BEING PTS UNLESS YOU ARE IN SCN.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

I Wonder if my environment is doing this to me, in that there are certain types of people who are like my old roommates I had. But I don't really talk to these people or associate with them. They just live around me. And there is a landlord who reminds me of those types.

there are go again ruminating about who is suppressing me.

Sure. I wouldn't get too into worrying or ruminating about it. If you are comfortable around a person, then stay in touch with him or her. If you're not, then don't pay much attention to that person.

You're free to move around and talk to whomever you like and to make the decisions you want to. Stresses and strains in life are inevitable but they don't have to exact too much of a toll upon you.

I think Hubbard got way too into looking for the SP at the bottom of the woodpile, so to speak. In the end, all we have are ourselves and also sometimes our loved ones and friends to rely on. I also think there are people who can be hard or stressful to deal with but it doesn't make them SPs. Personality conflicts can happen. And in those cases you can just limit your contact with them.

 

[Stan D'Teque]

For what it's worth, a mate of mine used to get himself into all sorts of trouble by hanging out wih the wrong people. He decided that if he walked away from a conversation with someone feeling worse than when he started, he'd stay away from them. If talking to someone made him feel better, he kept them as a friend. It worked well. Hope this helps. And hope you feel better soon!!!

 

[Sir Facer]

AH I agree with what you say: bodies get sick when they're fighting something and there's not much else to do but help them fight. PTSness is used as an introverting tool. My point is whether or not you agree with the philosophy of PTSness, out-lists will make you crash and burn faster than anything else. Force someone to accept a "wrong why" and you've killed them. It's what Hubbard did with his enemies, knowing how well it worked. it's the basic principle behind Black Dianetics. I've unstuck a lot of people by cleaning up wrong indications. All I was saying to Cinamingirl is: don't go looking for an item in answer to a "who is suppressing me?' question. THAT will make you sick. Or worse. I lost a friend to a wrong "Hat in Life" from the LOC. I've seen other tragedies too numerous to list. It is dynamite and one of the few things LRH did get 100% right.

Wow Stan D'Tech, I just blew down on this, how true is this info, thanks for it. Love to you my friendxoxoxoxox

 

[KnightVision]

AH I agree with what you say: bodies get sick when they're fighting something and there's not much else to do but help them fight. PTSness is used as an introverting tool. My point is whether or not you agree with the philosophy of PTSness, out-lists will make you crash and burn faster than anything else. Force someone to accept a "wrong why" and you've killed them. It's what Hubbard did with his enemies, knowing how well it worked. it's the basic principle behind Black Dianetics. I've unstuck a lot of people by cleaning up wrong indications. All I was saying to Cinamingirl is: don't go looking for an item in answer to a "who is suppressing me?' question. THAT will make you sick. Or worse. I lost a friend to a wrong "Hat in Life" from the LOC. I've seen other tragedies too numerous to list. It is dynamite and one of the few things LRH did get 100% right.

Nicely put. Thanks Stan.

 

[Cat's Squirrel]

The best explanation for what you now have comes under "out-list" phenomena" - looking for a reason for something and getting the wrong item. Guaranteed to make you not well. I once (a l-o-n-g time ago) had explained to me as like looking up your own a#**hole: all you'll see is shit, shit and more shit. Whether or not the PTS tech is real, I know how real the out-list stuff is. If you wanna spin yourself in, go looking for "who's suppressing me?" Go for a walk instead. Bodies get sick from things: Vitamin C handles most of them. Getting introverted makes you more vulnerable to illness: buy a gun and blow the fuckers who try to introvert you away I say. I'm Stan D'Teque. I have no medical training whatsoever so I can't say anything about physical illnesses except to say what's worked for me in the past. I still have success running PTS interviews on others but I'm damned if I'd ever run one on myself. It's total dynamite and just another trick used by the Co$ staff to keep people introverted "You're sick/upset/had an accident? - who's your SP?" Sticks your attention up your arse every time.

This is a great one too. You're so right; it used to drive me batty when someone tried to stick a wrong "why" on me for something, especially when they wouldn't take no for an answer and insisted they knew more than I did.

Out of interest though; since you're so aware of the dangers and yet still use it on others,
how do you manage to do it safely and without causing them any problems?

 

[Thrak]

Yes I'm afraid PTSness does exist. But like most things in scn it's blown totally out of proportion. I did the course and when I read "more on pts handling" about pts to the middle class my head was spinning for 5 minutes. It had never dawned on me before that the American TV based POOP culture was the problem I could not solve. And there are many people out there with abusive parents etc. that never quite realize that this person they trust and think they need is really killing them. Seen it happen too many times. But do I think if you get the sniffles there must be some sp? Absolutely not, and one of the stupidest obsessions of scn. Constantly looking for the bad guy. Many people here would probably agree the church was their pts terminal which is a perfect example of actual ptsness. Being around something or someone that you trust and do not think of as an enemy but who is really killing you. Doesn't seem like sci-fi to me but that doesn't mean I'm a "tech works" guy. I just call em like I see em.

 

[Power Change]

Yes I'm afraid PTSness does exist. And there are many people out there with abusive parents etc. that never quite realize that this person they trust and think they need is really killing them. Seen it happen too many times. But do I think if you get the sniffles there must be some sp? Absolutely not, and one of the stupidest obsessions of scn. Constantly looking for the bad guy. Many people here would probably agree the church was their pts terminal which is a perfect example of actual ptsness. Being around something or someone that you trust and do not think of as an enemy but who is really killing you. Doesn't seem like sci-fi to me but that doesn't mean I'm a "tech works" guy. I just call em like I see em.

sure I found the church to be very suppressive but I did not get sick once.I would be down and feel depressed from the more poor repair work they did...but I did not get sick....

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PTS.

PTS by definition is a potential trouble source and directly BY DEFINITION associated with an SP. So why keep describing stress as PTS-let go of the false verbage. when you say PTS anything-you are tying it to the scn defn thereby associating an sp. so if you dont mean that stop saying PTS.

So yes people get sick with stress and all I mentioned earlier and a person being an ass in your life can wear you down...you worry...you dont sleep as well, you burn up nutrients on the body faster, you have bad hormones released that cause the immune system to be strained etc etc....

get out of scino speak when talking about the factors of life and having a body.

 

[Thrak]

I don't think you read my post that well and I don't see why you are so adamant about this. All it means is connected to a suppressive. Thats' it! And all that means is being in contact on a regular basis with someone who is actively impeding your survival in some way. And yes there are people in the world who do things like that. Jews in Nazi Germany were connected to many suppressives and many were quite cowed and fearful but not all. Christ and Christians to the Romans. American blacks to whites. You could go down the list through history of times this has happened as well as on a family basis. As I said in my post, I do not believe it results in cold or flu but rather fear, dread, depression, anxiety etc. Nor do I beleive that hubbard was the first to discover this. In the American South you will find many blacks that are quite happy despite the racism. They developed their own "tech' to deal with it and are quite strong and balanced despite living in hostile territory. But many others are quite harmed by it. But just because hubbard put his own name on something that was already there, I am not going to say it doesn't exist. The words stress or depression do not mean connected to a suppressive but may be symptoms of that. I may just use another term to express it rather than his. In fact I don't know of a single term other than that that expresses the idea. But I guess you could argue that this concept doesn't deserve it's own term. My own father you could say was PTS as his parents drove him into the ground. Constant invalidation, telling him he should be different than he is. He wanted to be an artist they wanted him to be a lawyer. It ruined his life. The symptoms were depression, mood swings, anxiety. But none of those terms convey that he had people that he trusted and thought he needed but were in fact killing him. The way the church deals with this topic is totally absurd. But don't tell me something doesn't exist that has a profound effect on my life. Maybe it doesn't exist for you.

 

[cinamingrl]

~~~

Yes I'm afraid PTSness does exist. ... And there are many people out there with abusive parents etc. that never quite realize that this person they trust and think they need is really killing them...

Yah I've seriously considered that my mother is an SP. She definitely has some of the qualities listed on that SP list.

 

[Power Change]

I don't think you read my post that well and I don't see why you are so adamant about this. All it means is connected to a suppressive. Thats' it! And all that means is being in contact on a regular basis with someone who is actively impeding your survival in some way. And yes there are people in the world who do things like that. Jews in Nazi Germany were connected to many suppressives and many were quite cowed and fearful but not all. Christ and Christians to the Romans. American blacks to whites.

Point is, being PTS did not kill e.g the jews. Being 'around' a suppressive didnt kill them either. Being starved and gassed DID kill them. If they LIVED with hitler but were fed and given water, they would be emotionally distressed but alive. So, the jews being starved , experimeted on, and gassed are potential trouble sources????

 

[Thrak]

I think you are making this way too complicated. Look at it from the view from giving therapy to someone. They are doing fine one day and then a couple of days later they are a mess. And you find out they have somebody in their life that is always criticizing and invalidating them - and yes there are people like that in the world I grew up around many like that. So it turns out they are connected to a suppressive. So to some you could say they were PTS but if your point is PTS isn't a very good term for that then I would agree with you. But being connected to someone that is a constant problem and the effects that that has are as real as the sun and the moon so I don't really see what there is to disagree about. People are happier when somebody isn't trying to kill them it's pretty simple. Some people have someone trying to kill them and never realize it as crazy as it seems. And the realization that they were trying to kill them all along can be very therapeutic. The end.

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

I think you are making this way too complicated. Look at it from the view from giving therapy to someone. They are doing fine one day and then a couple of days later they are a mess. And you find out they have somebody in their life that is always criticizing and invalidating them - and yes there are people like that in the world I grew up around many like that. So it turns out they are connected to a suppressive. So to some you could say they were PTS but if your point is PTS isn't a very good term for that then I would agree with you. But being connected to someone that is a constant problem and the effects that that has are as real as the sun and the moon so I don't really see what there is to disagree about. People are happier when somebody isn't trying to kill them it's pretty simple. Some people have someone trying to kill them and never realize it as crazy as it seems. And the realization that they were trying to kill them all along can be very therapeutic. The end.

The real problem is SHOW ME SOMEONE WHO IS NOT PTS. Seriously!
It's a set up for a loss in Scientology. Specially when you can be PTS with simple reminders.
What it really is is criticism not "supression". One person might be able to wipe it right off his shoulder while another "worries" about it for days.
It's only supression if you allow it to be.
From one person to another

 

[Power Change]

The real problem is SHOW ME SOMEONE WHO IS NOT PTS. Seriously!
It's a set up for a loss in Scientology. Specially when you can be PTS with simple reminders.
What it really is is criticism not "supression". One person might be able to wipe it right off his shoulder while another "worries" about it for days.
It's only supression if you allow it to be.
From one person to another

well put....exactly. It's called 'LIFE'.

 

[Thrak]

The real problem is SHOW ME SOMEONE WHO IS NOT PTS. Seriously!
It's a set up for a loss in Scientology. Specially when you can be PTS with simple reminders.
What it really is is criticism not "supression". One person might be able to wipe it right off his shoulder while another "worries" about it for days.
It's only supression if you allow it to be.
From one person to another

Yes you are right but it's relative. If there is a good chance you will be shot just by going outside you would think that person may be a little down or anxious when they have to go out for food. But this is a highly variable thing. I met a guy who was in a concentration camp and had some of the worst stories you could imagine but found a purpose in documenting it and making sure others knew. Many caved in as you would expect, he didn't. And some of those are the most inspiring stories, about the people who don't cave in. But not everybody is superman. A factor which you have to realize of why this is probably so abused is that this phenomena is much worse if you commit crimes against those you are worried about. If you are a wanted felon than you are likely to be much more worried about the FBI than if you obey the laws. Hubbard was committing fraud on a daily basis, was wanted for tax evasion and god knows what else and was extremely paranoid about getting caught. And then you have that the church is committing fraud and so is very concerned about about public being in contact with someone who knows what's going on as that is a threat to the church's survival. It's really just about how people deal with threat. And some are obviously much better at it than others.