PTS - ness

[Voltaire's Child]

People describe phenomena in different ways. It's like anything else. What one person might call a miracle, another might call an undiscovered scientific fact or an OT ability or a manifestation of the divine or whatever.

Same with biblical commentary. An ancient Jewish prophet would describe certain things differently than another person would, but they are still talking about spirituality and how to behave.

So what one person may call PTSness, another may call something else. Of course the Scn theory behind this stuff is different, Hubbard had a lot of theories about existing phenomena. But it doesn't change the fact that different people have different ways of discussing the same exact phenomena.

I also don't see the point of suggesting to people that they get out of Scieno-speak when this thread was started about a Scn term and concept and people are discussing it. I've seen this before. Someone discusses a Scn concept- often not even the person who started the thread- and people tell him or her to stop using Scn terms. That's beside the point and is not helpful when we are discussing Scn concepts in threads started by other individuals.

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

Yes you are right but it's relative. If there is a good chance you will be shot just by going outside you would think that person may be a little down or anxious when they have to go out for food. But this is a highly variable thing. I met a guy who was in a concentration camp and had some of the worst stories you could imagine but found a purpose in documenting it and making sure others knew. Many caved in as you would expect, he didn't. And some of those are the most inspiring stories, about the people who don't cave in. But not everybody is superman. A factor which you have to realize of why this is probably so abused is that this phenomena is much worse if you commit crimes against those you are worried about. If you are a wanted felon than you are likely to be much more worried about the FBI than if you obey the laws. Hubbard was committing fraud on a daily basis, was wanted for tax evasion and god knows what else and was extremely paranoid about getting caught. And then you have that the church is committing fraud and so is very concerned about about public being in contact with someone who knows what's going on as that is a threat to the church's survival. It's really just about how people deal with threat. And some are obviously much better at it than others.

Agreed. Much of that is common sense. If you kick a dog and it bites you, are you PTS?
Scientology doesn't allow for ANY random actions happening (not the dog example of course).
The example I've given a couple Scientologists is ....
If a plane crashes with 300 people on board, does that mean all 300 were PTS or does it mean that only one of them has to be PTS to kill all the rest.
No matter how this is answered it has another question to follow that shows the PTS tech is either incomplete or mostly wrong.
But i do know what you're saying and agree, very basically.

 

[Human Again]

Agreed. Much of that is common sense. If you kick a dog and it bites you, are you PTS?
Scientology doesn't allow for ANY random actions happening (not the dog example of course).
The example I've given a couple Scientologists is ....
If a plane crashes with 300 people on board, does that mean all 300 were PTS or does it mean that only one of them has to be PTS to kill all the rest.
No matter how this is answered it has another question to follow that shows the PTS tech is either incomplete or mostly wrong.
But i do know what you're saying and agree, very basically.

With the six degrees of seperation theory - everyone is connected to an SP.

 

[Rene Descartes]

I could never full understand the PTS tech. As in, when I get sick. I thought it was because someone was suppressing me. Is this true? Now that I am no longer in belief of that tech stuff, I still tend to think about it when I get sick. Today I am feeling as if I am getting some flu bug. It's starting to feel like it's in my head, and kinda "out of comm", for lack of a better phrase. And I've been feeling this way for a few days. Now it's physical feelings, like a bug I've caught.

So I am falling back into my old scient. thinking, wondering who was suppressing me a few days ago. I used to do that all the time when I was on staff. What is all of that pts stuff about?

The sick are easy prey for LRH tech.

Rd00

 

[cinamingrl]

~~~

The sick are easy prey for LRH tech.

Rd00

Well I found out from a real doctor that it's just a sinus infection. There, it's over, now I can get on with my life.

I'm Barack Obama and I approve this message.

 

[Iknowtoomuch]

With the six degrees of seperation theory - everyone is connected to an SP.

Exactly! And it's a money maker I tell you.

 

[Voltaire's Child]

With the six degrees of seperation theory - everyone is connected to an SP.

That's too funny!!

 

[Terl]

Sorry to bump this topic but even when I was in SCN I hated, hated, HATED PTS interviews. For me, it was totally useless. I never once came up with a reason why I was sick or who was the suppressive. The command to recall the first time I felt the illness left me totally blank each time because when I was born, my lungs were underdeveloped and as I result I had asthma and was usually sick in varying degrees all winter. Docs said when I was around 10 it would go away and I'd be healthy and that happened. Still, I got sick every once in a while like everyone else but I was and still am a generally very healthy person. Having a childhood where I was basically sick from the beginning, I could not just easily recall the first time I had a stuffy nose or cough. My PTS interviews were long, boring, resulted in nothing. I would usually come up with some little thing that bothered me that I knew wasn't the problem and say I would handle it. My sickness never blew and attempting to handle any situations was useless anyway.

The whole time I felt like everyone was trying to get me to come to the conclusion my mother was the one making me sick and I would refuse to say that. Even if it were true, it wouldn't matter, because she is an amazing woman and I love her and I know her intentions are not bad and never were. I felt like that was the elephant in the room during all PTS handlings, though, and I would not stand for it.

In fact, I think it was a PTS interview that put me over the edge and made me leave SCN. I was taken off a course by an auditor who simply observed that I didn't look good (healthy) and asked to restudy a bunch of overcoming ups and downs. I left the mission in tears and was so mad that a family member got them to leave me alone.

 

[Tim Skog]

Terl, good for you. PTS was just another of LRH's ways of making you wrong for not being gung-ho. There is no such thing as PTS. It's just hubbo voodoo.

 

[cantsay]

<My sickness never blew..>

Now this is something interesting... sickness isnt supposed to "blow". That isnt the EP of a PTS handling. If someone told you that it was supposed to make you well - they were lying. Its not supposed to do that at all, its just to identify what caused you to be sick in the first place.

I hated them too, they never did anything for me.

 

[ttamaad]

I'm one of those lucky people that doesn't really get sick... a minor cold maybe but really nothing to talk about

...and I have been connected to SP's all around... look at you lot for example... rabble, SP's and dis-affected people all nattering and causing all sorts of ill will...

its amazing but I have survived without so much as a scratch

I just can't figure it out? makes a bloke kinda nervous

 

[Terl]

Now this is something interesting... sickness isnt supposed to "blow". That isnt the EP of a PTS handling. If someone told you that it was supposed to make you well - they were lying. Its not supposed to do that at all, its just to identify what caused you to be sick in the first place.

I hated them too, they never did anything for me.

I thought LRH says himself that the symptoms will clear up after your handling. Maybe I just imagined that much. :confused2:

 

[cantsay]

it is supposed to make you feel "relief", but you still have to get well, as far as I can remember. Otherwise people would be expecting broken bones to "blow" and so on.

Does anyone have the actual HCOB?

 

[Terl]

Nope.
I'm just surprised to dig up this old thread and find so many ex's saying that the PTS data is true when for me it was the least helpful thing in all of SCN...

 

[cantsay]

PTS tech is disproven quite well through this board per ttamaad's post above. This board is teeming with "SPs". And I feel fine. Much better than before actually. I have not seen a single post on this board claiming "I got sick after being in communication with you people".

Either Scnientology's definition is SP is wrong, or the people labelled SPs arent suppressive, or PTSness doesnt actually exist as it is defined in Scn. I think it is ALL OF THE ABOVE.

 

[TheSneakster]

not important

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Right. It's constantly misused. And even if used according to policy it can turn into a real witch hunt. That's not conducive to peace of mind or doing well in life.

It can be implemented wisely and constructively but this is rarely done in CofS.

 

[uniquemand]

PTS tech is disproven quite well through this board per ttamaad's post above. This board is teeming with "SPs". And I feel fine. Much better than before actually. I have not seen a single post on this board claiming "I got sick after being in communication with you people".

Either Scnientology's definition is SP is wrong, or the people labelled SPs arent suppressive, or PTSness doesnt actually exist as it is defined in Scn. I think it is ALL OF THE ABOVE.

I think you are right about this: Scientology's definition of an SP is wrong, because it's self-referencing. In other words, a person opposed to Scientology is considered a Suppressive. If they took that out, and stuck to strictly defining people as Suppressive if they had an imbalance of traits that harm others, dominate others, etc., then they'd be spot-on. PTSness, IMO, does exist, and is better defined as "under stress from something or someone in their environment". Certainly most of the people labeled by the CofS as Suppressives are wrongly so-labeled. (Self included).

 

[Voltaire's Child]

Another thing about PTSness is the idea that all sick people are PTS. Hubbard specifically said that people should not explain it away by saying something like we're all at effect anyway. However, I disagree with him. I was thinking today about a study I saw covered on TV which showed doctors being around people with colds. The ones who washed their hands a lot didn't get sick, of course. And the ones who didn't would end up getting the germs into their system and would get sick. Well, obviously washing hands doesn't handle PTSness. It is hygiene only. Now, I suppose someone taking an apologist stance would say "all sick people are PTS but not all PTS people are sick" and that would be accurate Hubbardite theory, but I still think that this wouldn't explain away all the flaws in PTS theory I'm perceiving here.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Another thing about PTSness is the idea that all sick people are PTS.

The idea that physical sickness has additional causes outside of the immediate body is not unique to Hubbard. I googled >>>sickness spiritual cause<<< and funnily enough this was hit #2:
http://www.kheper.net/topics/subtlebody/causes.htm

I say funnily enough because the author of the book that linked piece is taken from is a particular favourite of mine.

Paul