What's this "Excalibur" thing? Will it give me OT powers?

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

I was OT III and worked in the Solo Tech Div (AO) at Saint Hill 1982-86. While I was Solo Tech Sec I read everything in the place that wasn't NOTs, including some really weird OT II/III LRH research notes and a tape transcript of a weird 1966 tape about OT II/III.

Old OT VI was one of the tamer things.

And who wouldn't, given the chance.

Old OTVI is in the wikileaks volume (but not the handwiritten issue you referred to.)

 

[Mark A. Baker]

It's obvious that nobody is going to be Clear unless they have erased their own Incident 1. That can't happen before OTIII.

That's not necessarily true. It is possible for such a thing to happen in prior auditing. Individuals run differently in session.


Mark A. Baker

 

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

That's not necessarily true. It is possible for such a thing to happen in prior auditing. Individuals run differently in session.

Well I'm speculating here, based on what I know.
Are you agreeing that you need to have run Incident 1 to be Clear?
And then perhaps suggesting that Incident 1 can be run prior to OTIII?
I suppose the pc might not be clustered prior to OTIII, and could therefore run his own Inc 1 on NED or something.

But even then I am going to argue that just erasing true Basic-Basic (Inc 1) isn't enough. Not with R6 still ready to kick you in the teeth.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Well I'm speculating here, based on what I know.
Are you agreeing that you need to have run Incident 1 to be Clear?
And then perhaps suggesting that Incident 1 can be run prior to OTIII?
I suppose the pc might not be clustered prior to OTIII, and could therefore run his own Inc 1 on NED or something.

But even then I am going to argue that just erasing true Basic-Basic (Inc 1) isn't enough. Not with R6 still ready to kick you in the teeth.

You can run Incident 1, Incident 2, the washing machine, the dishwasher, the Boston Marathon, the New York Marathon, and what ever else their is to run, it won't get you any closer to the imaginary state of Clear than you were before you ever heard of Scientology.

 

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

You can run Incident 1, Incident 2, the washing machine, the dishwasher, the Boston Marathon, the New York Marathon, and what ever else their is to run, it won't get you any closer to the imaginary state of Clear than you were before you ever heard of Scientology.

Ok, I got that message from your previous post. I failed to ack it.

I suppose from this that you are either no longer willing to accept that the state of Clear exists, or never accepted it, even as a concept.

If you did once believe in it, that begs the question
"When did you first think the state of Clear was not real?"

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Ok, I got that message from your previous post. I failed to ack it.

I suppose from this that you are either no longer willing to accept that the state of Clear exists, or never accepted it, even as a concept.

If you did once believe in it, that begs the question
"When did you first think the state of Clear was not real?"

This has nothing to do with me, or what I believe, it has to do with the fact that Scientology or any of Hubbard's material for that matter, has never even remotely come close to producing a single "Clear" or OT"

 

[Div6]

This has nothing to do with me, or what I believe, it has to do with the fact that Scientology or any of Hubbard's material for that matter, has never even remotely come close to producing a single "Clear" or OT"

Your avatar is eerily appropriate for the propaganda you repeat ad nauseum.

 

[uniquemand]

Lesolee, why would a person need to break up clusters and dismiss or reintegrate BTs in order to handle their own "Incident 1"? Why would they need to run out a specific incident from someone else's case in order to handle their own? I don't consider OTIII necessary in order to do this. I do consider it necessary for a person to handle their own Actual GPMs in order to be free to live an enlightened, free existence, but I don't think it needs to be something which is done per the Scio grade Chart (particularly above R6EW).

Essentially, examine your belief system such that it becomes transparent (or clear) to you, and this frees you to see what is actually there without uninspected filters interfering with your perception.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Well I'm speculating here, based on what I know.
Are you agreeing that you need to have run Incident 1 to be Clear?
And then perhaps suggesting that Incident 1 can be run prior to OTIII?
I suppose the pc might not be clustered prior to OTIII, and could therefore run his own Inc 1 on NED or something.

But even then I am going to argue that just erasing true Basic-Basic (Inc 1) isn't enough. Not with R6 still ready to kick you in the teeth.

I'll answer this in terms of Hubbard-think, not my current thoughts.

A person can go Clear without even running any whole track at all. He doesn't "erase his whole bank," but merely stops continuously mocking it up in present time. So he certainly doesn't need to have erased his own Incident 1. If he isn't mocking it up any more, then it no longer is part of his own case.

After an individual is "Clear," any remaining charge should only belong to his BTs and Clusters. "His" R6 doesn't exist any more.

Again, Hubbard's universe and not my own think.

Paul

 

[uniquemand]

I don't believe in Clear, actually, but I do believe a person can destimulate to the point where they are quite free and serene, and if skilled, can spot what is restimulating them and confront it before it starts becoming a new node in their network of uninspected associations.

 

[Dulloldfart]

. . . a new node in their network of uninspected associations.

Is that network a person's "case" in a different terminology?

Paul

 

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

A person can go Clear without even running any whole track at all. He doesn't "erase his whole bank," but merely stops continuously mocking it up in present time. So he certainly doesn't need to have erased his own Incident 1. If he isn't mocking it up any more, then it no longer is part of his own case.

That's an interesting viewpoint. For me, if R6 is sitting there, and if you fall into it you are liable to die, that is pretty much a case issue that shoudn't be true for a Clear. We had definitions for Clear including R6 bank gone and Basic-Basic erased.

UM, I assume that your own Incident 1 wouldn't run if you were clustered up, ie BTs stuck to you rather than your body. That may or may not be true. Agreed that own GPMs need to be run, but you probably need to handle the other charge first or else you end up in big trouble. Again just guesswork.

 

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

This has nothing to do with me, or what I believe, it has to do with the fact that Scientology or any of Hubbard's material for that matter, has never even remotely come close to producing a single "Clear" or OT"

Well the reason why I think it does have something to do with you is that you are vehemently protesting the non-existence of the state. I was trying to suggest why most people at that level and above do not seem to feel they have attained that state, and that others feel that way concerning them as well!

It seems to me you have personal connection to the state or lack thereof. Let me re-phrase my question ...

When did you first have a doubt about the existence of the state of Clear?
.
.

 

[Dulloldfart]

That's an interesting viewpoint. For me, if R6 is sitting there, and if you fall into it you are liable to die, that is pretty much a case issue that shoudn't be true for a Clear.

But if a BT starts to freewheel whose body is it that is denied sleep and dies? There aren't a whole lot of them that he is attached to.

Paul

 

[Lesolee (Sith Lord)]

A person can go Clear without even running any whole track at all. He doesn't "erase his whole bank," but merely stops continuously mocking it up in present time.

Seems to me the guy slipped into Incident 2 so we better get him onto OTII and OTIII fast before he really gets into trouble!

For me a cog is not the same thing as erasing the bank. Here is a quote from the Clearing Course booklet to illustrate that point.

You are not seeking Release from the bank at this level. You are erasing. Therefore “the bank has blown” is nonsense - one has blown from the bank, so get back in it and run it. Total erasure is the aim.

 

[Winston Smith]

This thread is hilarious. Do you guys take yourselves seriously?

 

[Dulloldfart]

Seems to me the guy slipped into Incident 2 so we better get him onto OTII and OTIII fast before he really gets into trouble!

For me a cog is not the same thing as erasing the bank. Here is a quote from the Clearing Course booklet to illustrate that point.

Again, a disclaimer that I don't believe this stuff any more.

If you read the 1978 confidential HCOB about Clear (not a NOTs one), accompanying the "Clear cog" (or shortly thereafter) is the ability to not do it any more, to lose the automaticity.

The CC booklet is included in the OT2 course pack because the procedure is pretty much the same. But the theory given in that booklet was written at a time when he hadn't yet invented body thetans, and doesn't apply in its entirety to OT2 or OT3.

Paul

 

[uniquemand]

Is that network a person's "case" in a different terminology?

Paul

That's how I understand it. If you mean TIR, then Gerbode postulates a "Traumatic Incident Network", or "the Net".

That's an interesting viewpoint. For me, if R6 is sitting there, and if you fall into it you are liable to die, that is pretty much a case issue that shoudn't be true for a Clear. We had definitions for Clear including R6 bank gone and Basic-Basic erased.

UM, I assume that your own Incident 1 wouldn't run if you were clustered up, ie BTs stuck to you rather than your body. That may or may not be true. Agreed that own GPMs need to be run, but you probably need to handle the other charge first or else you end up in big trouble. Again just guesswork.

It's a guess I don't care to discuss, being that I think the terms bt and cluster are inaccurate, and I think that the phenomenon they address is actually a form of projection, or "circuit" in Dn/Scn terminology.

This thread is hilarious. Do you guys take yourselves seriously?

I take what I said regarding "tech" pretty seriously. YMMV.

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Your avatar is eerily appropriate for the propaganda you repeat ad nauseum.

Please tell us what part of "Scientology or any of Hubbard's material for that matter, has never even remotely come close to producing a single "Clear" or OT"" do you believe is inaccurate or deceptive? ... I'd love to hear this

 

[ChuckNorrisCutsMyLawn]

Well the reason why I think it does have something to do with you is that you are vehemently protesting the non-existence of the state. I was trying to suggest why most people at that level and above do not seem to feel they have attained that state, and that others feel that way concerning them as well!

It seems to me you have personal connection to the state or lack thereof. Let me re-phrase my question ...

When did you first have a doubt about the existence of the state of Clear?
.
.

When did I first have a doubt about the existence of the state of Clear?

When I realized Scientology was a hypnotic con game, but again try to stay focused on the topic we are discussing, this has nothing to do with me, it has to do with the indisputable fact that Scientology or any of Hubbard's material for that matter, has never even remotely come close to producing a single "Clear" or OT.