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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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Enthetan

Master of Disaster
On the terms, I tended to think of geek and nerd as sort of synonyms and they are definitely not. Usually nerds are capable of earning above average income as are Geeks, but that is the only major trait they share. Nerds have negative charisma, the way they dress and choose their color and pattern matches is a laugh. A guy might wear a shirt with a check pattern of light brown and dark brown squares while his pants might be grey with stripes. If he is wearing a tie, it would be a paisely in a non matching color. Oddly, though of high IQ, the nerd would see nothing wrong with his outfit.
Lakey

The explanation is that nerds have little interest in fashion. It's not that they can't, it's that they don't care enough to try. Thinking about color and pattern matches in clothing is not something high on their importance scale.

Similarly, learning social skills is something which takes time, practice, and a desire to learn them. The nerd is not as interested in learning social skills as he is in discovering the inner workings of whatever item of technology happens to fascinate him.

BTW, I consider myself a nerd. If it wasn't for my wife smacking me over the head about non-matching clothing, I would dress more like one too. In the morning, left to myself I would grab some pants, grab a shirt, do it in the dark without looking, and walk out the door.
 
Casey Kasem, Counting Them Down

In 27 posts or thereabouts this thread ...Aboard the Apollo 1973 will hit the ESMB top 10

We need Casey Kasem or Dick Clark to do the countdown to top ten.

WITH A BULLET!!!
 
Well, Hip Hip Huraaah for us! :D (Gee, top ten posts from this thread would be a hard judgement call!) Post faster, everybody!

I would ask Lakey to the podium, but he looks like he's too choked up with joy and relief.

He did want to thank the Academy (at CC, definitely not the LA Org).

Quoting from Sally Fields, he conveys these words to us, "You like me, you really do."

After the fanfare, he is inviting us all (in SoCal) to a pot luck barbeque in the rain at his house. Bring your swim suits.

There will be interviews on the red carpet by OSA. To be broadcast on YouTube under the search words: "enemies of Scientology, they never rest."
 
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lkwdblds

Crusader
I would ask Lakey to the podium, but he looks like he's too choked up with joy and relief.

I am here! Don't start the ceremony without me. I checked at 6:51 Pacific time and with 29,210 views we have moved into 10th place all time, pasing up "What are OT Powers" There are so many people to thank that I better not say any names or someone will feel left out. Two people contribute so heavily that they must be thanked. Sweetness and Light - She played two vital roles, back in late October when we had about 6,700 views, I had said about all there was to say about my Apollo and CCLA stints on staff and all my experiences in Scn. I was going to end off the thread then and there but Sweetness & Light told me I had much more to say and that drove me on to keep it going - I did that on my own by creating the restaurant reviews and lists of best staff members at CCLA. As we grew, I named S & L as official hostess of this thread with me being the official host.

Carmelo, get up here on this podium, let's hear it for him. After nosing around for a couple of weeks correcting me on wrong dates, etc., I PM'ed him and he and I decided to create a premium type, high toned thread. We didn't want to attract the jokesters (with the exception of HeluvaHoax who bashes with such creativity and humor that he is welcome here any time.) nor did we want to attract the purveyors of smut and filth. We wanted an elite crowd of some of the best thinkers on ESMB. I think we attracted some of the finest minds on ESMB and some of the wisest people in Spiritual Technologies on the entire planet. The amount of "brain power" using the term ideomatically, posting here on this thread is really staggering, some of the top minds on planet Earth and some of the most high toned people on the planet as well. I wish all this power which we have here could be harnessed somehow and put to work create a better world. We do this with our posts but I wish we could do more. Well, that is about it for tonight. That's the way it is Sunday, January 24,2010 Pacific Time.

He did want to thank the Academy (at CC, definitely not the LA Org).

Quoting from Sally Fields, he conveys these words to us, "You like me, you really do."

After the fanfare, he is inviting us all (in SoCal) to a pot luck barbeque in the rain at his house. Bring your swim suits.

There will be interviews on the red carpet by OSA. To be broadcast on YouTube under the search words: "enemies of Scientology, they never rest."

I bid you Good night and Good Luck! To those of you in Europe or down under, in Oz, I wish you G'day Mates and happy Monday morning. As long as you want an elite Forum, I am going to keep working to keep it going. I know Sweetness & Light will also keep creating it and I hope acheiving this goal is not the end of the line for Carmelo. As a group, I am sure we still have much more to say and this is a good place to say it.
Lkwdblds aka Lakey aka Gary.
 
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Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
The other day, Vl of Hearts posted his story of selling Rex Fowler (the OTVll who killed his employee and shot himself over New Years in Colorado) his first Dianetics book. He goes on to say Rex was a good guy.

see this post (for source of my synopsis):

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=364319#post364319

Reed Slatkin found his father's dead body in their garage - dead of suicide when Reed was 14. Reed's uncle, his mom's brother, a Scientologist, took Reed, and gave him auditing on the experience. That is what got Reed involved with Scientology and Dianetics. Reed was a good kid too. His ex wife, Mary Jo is a good person. Reed was convicted of being responsible for the largest Ponzi scheme up till Madoff got charged.

I don't post long essays. I have plenty of thoughts on this. But,

have a listing question anyway.

What happens to good people gone way wrong?

The tech discussion started by RogerB seems a good place to begin.

My guess is that most everyone's story of why they joined the SO, IAS, etc and how their personalities shifted is a related subject.

Same with the German population in the 1930s.

Why do good people FLIP?


The fact that they do is well attested all over the place - the germans in WW2 were not "mad" or anything bizarre, they were just following standard programmed humanoid behaviour. Also, the Migram experiment and also the one done at Stanford show it, and even Hubbard mentioned it on his early Tone Scales by stressing that in the thetan plus body range "Social training and education sole guarrantee of sane conduct".


As to WHY it happens, one can generalise and say That's what the bank is all about. Factually tha far greater part of humanity is in a state of hypnosis and they are responding as they are meant to. And when the person calling the shots says "Lock those kids up in chain lockers" then the followers do exactly that. Humans by and large are hypnotised robots.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
occasionally someone will rise above the bank

The fact that they do is well attested all over the place - the germans in WW2 were not "mad" or anything bizarre, they were just following standard programmed humanoid behaviour. Also, the Migram experiment and also the one done at Stanford show it, and even Hubbard mentioned it on his early Tone Scales by stressing that in the thetan plus body range "Social training and education sole guarrantee of sane conduct".


As to WHY it happens, one can generalise and say That's what the bank is all about. Factually tha far greater part of humanity is in a state of hypnosis and they are responding as they are meant to. And when the person calling the shots says "Lock those kids up in chain lockers" then the followers do exactly that. Humans by and large are hypnotised robots.

Can you be a little more specific on who or what is hynotizing the people and who or what determines or determined in the past what people "are meant to do" Somebody had to set in all these implants to make the people robots. Are the perpetrators still around?

Unfortunately, what you state is pretty much the thruth. However, there seem to be important individuals or important moments in history or a combination of both which occasionally produce some worthwhile products.

Certain ages are associated with certain peoples led by certain individuals and represent times when especially able individuals rose above the bank and led their peoples to a society better than the one they were born into.

Some ages of note are the Greek Golden Age where several geniuses abounded, Archimedes in science and math, Plato, Socrates and Aristotle in Philosophy, Euclid in math and and geometry, Euripedes in playwriting, etc. I am just guessing that in that particular society, the bank was not subject to the kind of restimulation which it is subect to in the USA of today.

A very notable period was the American Revolutionary period. Though some may disagree, I believe that there were a lot of keyed out people around who had good critical thinking skills and could think outside of their banks. They came up with the Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights among other things. There was an Abraham Lincoln, a Ghandi and so forth. You use the term "by and large" and that allows for the occasional exception to a total bank driven society.

Without the occasional exceptions and a society which guarantees them enough freedom to pursue their missions, there would be no point at all in continuing to plug away being a meat bodied quasi animal here on Earth.

We do have great works of art, great works of music, check out the architecture in Paris, the cities of Italy and Prague in the Czech Republic. Somebody rose above their banks to design and build some of these edifices.

Somehow, there was enough free non bank driven thought to create the internet for all of us to use and virtually all knowledge known at this time on Earth can be accessed through the internet. It is really an amazing achievment that this tool exists and is so readily accessible.

There is enough spiritual freedom and protection of rights inherant in most governments of Earth today to allow people such as Alan Walters, Roger B. and yourself to engage in the research and application of spiritual technology. Nobody tries to stop you. Some indiviual or group of individuals is responsible for obtaining those rights for you and for us in general and whoever those people are, they rose above their banks and did something worthwhile to forward humanity. Almost always, the fights to obtain those rights for us all, involved killing and being killed on the many battlefields of Earth. The rights did not come for free and enough people rose above their banks to earn those rights for all of us.

Carmelo's question is about Flips, sort of a guy rises above his bank for a while or at least so it appears, and then flips back into the bank at a later date. You gave a partial answer by pointing out that we are prone to gravitate towards the bank by whoever it is that programmed us but you do not cover at all the mechanism covering the flip from the good side to the dark side. Maybe you can tackle in more detail the actual flip mechanism, I might take a shot at that myself.
Lakey
 
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Carmenlo, how could you know the big action spot in such an obscure City as Yucaipa? The poplulation is only about 20K.
I only read "San Bernardino County." Having spent many enjoyable hours on many different days at Victoria Gardens, I really do know that it is a great meeting place within the Inland Empire. There just aren't that many places to go in that area. I suppose you could impress her by giving her a tour of Orchard Supply Hardware (in Rancho Cucamonga too). You could point out the differences between ABS, CPVC, and PVC pipe (which everyone knows replaced clay, cast iron, and galvanized pipe - but not one for one). Women really get off on that kind of talk.



What is it with you and "The Cheesecake Factory"? You are always mentioning it, do you own stock in the company? We have one about 3 miles away in Brea, CA. My take on it is that it is above average food in a nice setting but that it is a bit pricey. Also, there is usually an effort made to leave room for dessert. I already have a weight problem and the last thing I need is dessert.

There are a few iconic companies where you always know what you're getting.

You can go into a Mickey D's in Bejing, Paris, or Hoboken and you get the same great burger, fries, and shake combined with marvelous American ambience. Excuse me while I barf.

Whether you get Starbucks coffee in San Diego, on a United Airlines' jet, or in some place down the street, you know the taste. It is always good. It is a standard of good coffee - not great, but acceptable.

There was a time, my daughter and I were in Chicago - on the town together. We asked a taxi driver for food advice. He dropped us at Uno's, the best pizza in Chi Town. We each took a bite. Then we had it boxed, paid for our meal, and as we walked out the door, handed the box to the first homeless person we saw. I suppose, if you like greasey grease with cheese and carbos galore, and you have a death wish by heart attack, then Uno's is superb.

If I'm in a strange town, or one that I'm very familiar with (Honolulu, Brentwood, the Valley, etc and there is a Cheesecake Factory, I KNOW that the food is terrific. The drinks are good. I like their mojitos. There is value for my dollar. Their eggplant sandwich is to die for. Ummmmm. You can throw a dart at the menu and not go wrong. Laying on the beach at Waikiki, I've walked down Kalakauua Ave. passed the giant banyan trees, and gotten a key lime cheesecake slice to go from the neighborhood Cheesecake Facory. I could have walked across the street and gotten an ahi burger from Cheeseburgers in Paradise (and they are delicious), but what satisfied me was cheesecake.


On the terms, I tended to think of geek and nerd as sort of synonyms and they are definitely not. Usually nerds are capable of earning above average income as are Geeks, but that is the only major trait they share. Nerds have negative charisma, the way they dress and choose their color and pattern matches is a laugh.

One of our boys works at a little internet startup called ebay. He is a high school graduate by the skin of his teeth. From the time he was fourteen, he drove us crazy by wrecking our computers in a myriad of ways. Now he gets to dress as an adult and go to a responsibly paying job. His earring sets off his five day growth of beard (how he keeps it at five days growth is beyond me). His shirts are all message shirts - such as "beer, it's not just for breakfast anymore!" go well with his shorts - even in winter. Caterpillar is the brand name on his high top steel toed work boots. His job at ebay is to bring ebay down. He's QA - Quality Assurance. Before ebay, he worked for the CIA at a front company, Apple, and a couple other places. His pay is adequate, mid six figure. Not bad for a high school grad. He's an alpha geek. He also skis backwards off a double black diamond cornice while filming his wife, son, and sister following him. Definitely not a nerd. Not introverted.

Thanks for the tips on how to approach the ex singing waitress. That zeroed in my perception a lot better and shed more light on the trepidation and fear of making the call, but did not blow that charge by inspection. Your post assumes that my reason for calling her is to resurrect the old romance, i.e. wanting to get involved with her again romantically. That is not necessarily what I am going for. That is where the problem lies, I do not actually know what I am going for or why I am making the call.

I didn't assume anything. You read into what I wrote, something that wasn't there. I find flirting with people to be rewarding unto itself. Better to have an unpredictable unpremeditated conversation ranging widely over mutual interests than do a crossword puzzle or sudoku.


That was why I liked writing a letter and sending it off. If she is glad to hear from me and makes a strong reach back, I would re evaluate the situation and then shift to your plan of attack. If she does not repond or responds mildy, I would re evaluate using that information. In all truth, at this stage of life, probably what attracts me the most is NOT my previous romantic interest 30 years ago but the need to find someone to go to concerts with and enjoy music with, something which I really need in life. My daughter took piano for 14 years and is quite accomplished and I love to go with her but she has her own life now up in Santa Barbara so I rarely get to see her. The ex singing waitress, had a beautiful singing voice and a fine knowledge of music and was always involved in staging productions and performing in them and that is really why I want to call her. Music, plus the connection to her deceased Sister is what would bring us together if we were going to resume being friends again.

if you're going to make a connection, it isn't her dead sister, it is live communication between two interested and interesting folk. But that is true with anyone that you meet.
 
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I bid you Good night and Good Luck! To those of you in Europe or down under, in Oz, I wish you G'day Mates and happy Monday morning. As long as you want an elite Forum, I am going to keep working to keep it going. I know Sweetness & Light will also keep creating it and I hope acheiving this goal is not the end of the line for Carmelo. As a group, I am sure we still have much more to say and this is a good place to say it.
Lkwdblds aka Lakey aka Gary.

Say "'Good night,' Gracie"
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
One aspect of Scientology that regularly gets decried on the anti-scio pages is ‘Survive!’. The principle on which Dianetic research was based. It is my belief that the concept of survival has harmoics and these all lie on a gradient scale which would parallel the tone scale, so what gets described as “survival” at one band would perhaps be called “being right” at a higher one and “endure” at a lower. At the very highest it would be something like “my postulates must prevail in my universe”. And since the entire universe is one’s own universe it follows that it applies everywhere. These guys who reckon that LRH was so wrong in his “Survive” business are most likely just looking at a different portion of the same gradient scale.

The thing to note about this “Survive!” idea is that it applies always. Every single action engaged in by us is somehow connected to the idea of surviving - even a person committing suicide is following that precept - he is exchanging what he considers to be a horrible life for what he believes will be a better one, even if it it total oblivion - that is still ‘better’ than the life he has, and so it is a survival action.

What I’m getting at here is that the Survive! postulate that LRH assumed as the basis of all life has a lot of workability in it. No one says it will go all the way but it certainly goes a very long way in explaining things and so we should not be too hasty in throwing it out.

Having (or being) a body with a reactive mind is then also considered to be pro-survival, and following the dictates and demands of this body/bank mechanism is very pro-survival too. This body plus bank system is the very best solution we had to the problems we experienced while being a free spirit, and today has become our biggest PTP - exactly per the pattern of wrong solutions. And this is where the hypnotised state comes in - the body and bank are mechanisms which operate automatically and which are fully based on the postulate to survive. This is why the bank is a self-protective mechanism - it was intended as a survival mechanism from the very start.

So who hypnotised us? We did it ourselves, and we did it in order to survive better. And that is all there is to it.

Implants are only effective if they parallel what the thetan is doing - that’s the glue that makes the guy hold on to his implant - they forward his own purpose line.

I agree with you that there have been individuals throughout history and in almost every culture who have “risen above the bank” (to use LRH’s phrase) and who managed to exert a tremendously good and lasting influence on that society, and this has enbled large groups of people to key out sufficiently and to establish very workable societies and cultures. Thank God for them, because I think without such beings this planet would really be a total madhouse.

The sudden flip that one observes should not surprise one too much. You see the same thing happen at hypnotism shows, you see it when young people “fall in love”, you see it in auditing sessions often when running heavy grief incidents > the preclear will boohoo while going through it and then be quite cheerful while telling the auditor about it all, and then you shove them back into it and they boohoo all over again. Fascinating to see. Someone or something just supplants the command centre in that person and away they go. I’ve experienced it myself.

That statement of "Social training and education sole guarrantee of sane conduct" is a horrifying one if you really look at it. Sole guarrantee. Wow.
 

RogerB

Crusader
My personal opinion: one advantage of the Fahrenheit scale is that it has the 0-to-100 part of the scale aligning with the lowest and highest temps that people in Europe were likely to encounter, which might explain its popularity.
Originally, actually, it was based on the temperature of the human body as 100 and 0 as freezing. Then as the thermometer makers got to making thermometers and had to etch the degree markers they found, with the mechanical technology they had, it to be hard to accurately divide that range . . . . the tech of the engravers was to divide by halves and halves again, on and on till they had the desired number of degrees marked. The end result was that relevant points like freezing and the body temperature got repositioned to where they are now.

The PBS Science program, "The Mechanical Universe" actually has one episode devoted to this topic of how all the various temerature scales came about.

I have linked that program elsewhere on ESMB . . . or you can google it :yes:

Rog
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Good night "Gracie".

Say "'Good night,' Gracie"

"Good night Gracie." There I said it George (Carmelo), anything else you want me to say? For the younger viewers, this was the eniding line on the old George Burns and Gracie Allen radio and TV shows. Gracie was cast as a sort of air headed and flippant but good natured wife to George, also her husband in real life. George would always tell her to say good nigt, Gracie but being an air head she would not just say "good night" to everyone but repeat the sentence in full, "Good night, Gracie."

Carmelo, thanks for the thorough and thoughtful reply to my comments to your earlier post. You put a lot into each comment you made and I appreciate it. I can see your point of view and that it is the right one. My thinking on the singing waitress topic is not spontaneous and spirit of play but is down the tone scale, full of signifcance, and it just some case that I have not been able to handledyet. This area of life being aberated is what brought me into Scn in the first place and it has never been fully handled. I've got two ways to go, either call Mike Goldstein for an Idenics session on the area or run some of those processes which Roger B sent me on the area myself. Your proposed, "From where could a spiritual being communicate to an ex singing waitress?" process plus doing the flow from her back to me seems like a good way to run it. Your cat gets some credit for C/Sing the process!

On the flip from being good to becoming evil, I am still working on it. One such person in the Third Reich was Hitler's architect, Albert Speer. He was a good man, very able and talented and was University trained in architecture. When Hitler appointed him his head Architect and gave him unlimited funding and license to create building after building in the proposed new Berlin, Speer's career dreams were fulfilled and he went along with Hitler for the ride.

I think a decent person in Speer's position tends to see the good and explain away the bad. Speer would drive in Hitler's Mercedes and see the throngs of hundreds of thousands of people cheering him and Hitler and waving Nazi flags and throwing flowers at Hitler's motorcade. It is easy in a situation such as this to sell oneself that the overall situation is "Good" and worth supporting. Okay, so Hitler also has a violent hatred of Jews, well, I, Speer, don't feel that way but they ARE kind of pushy and mercenary. Hitler is entitled to hate them, I'll just look the other way.

I think the key thing happening here is that a decent person sees that his career goals can be fulfilled beyond his wildest dreams, his family's future and security will be assured and his own name will go down in history as Germany's greatest architect. SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE, THE DECENT PERSON SELLS HIMSELF ON THE FACT THAT THE EVIL GROUP HE IS SUPPORTING IS NOT SO EVIL AND IS ACTUALLY DOING A LOT OF GOOD.

As long as the evil group seems to be wining, one tends not to examine his decisions and stays with his flip. When the evil group starts taking losses and begins to be criticized and starts falling apart then the decent person often wakes up, as Speer did, and tries to stop the destructive actions of his evil group. Serving a 20 year prison term in Spandau prison in Berlin after the war, Speer wrote two books on his experiences, "The Spandau Diaries" and "Inside the Third Reich". In these books he judges himself harshly and states that he was a complete failure as a moral and ethical human being and that he destroyed his life by joining forces with Hitler. He flips back to his old decent self at the end but feels that it is too late to help him. He feels he was tested and failed and from that point forward his life had no meaning. Speer's experiences shed some light on the "flip" process.
Lakey
 
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RogerB

Crusader
Leon is Correct Here

One aspect of Scientology that regularly gets decried on the anti-scio pages is ‘Survive!’. The principle on which Dianetic research was based. It is my belief that the concept of survival has harmoics and these all lie on a gradient scale which would parallel the tone scale, so what gets described as “survival” at one band would perhaps be called “being right” at a higher one and “endure” at a lower. At the very highest it would be something like “my postulates must prevail in my universe”. And since the entire universe is one’s own universe it follows that it applies everywhere. These guys who reckon that LRH was so wrong in his “Survive” business are most likely just looking at a different portion of the same gradient scale.

The thing to note about this “Survive!” idea is that it applies always. Every single action engaged in by us is somehow connected to the idea of surviving - even a person committing suicide is following that precept - he is exchanging what he considers to be a horrible life for what he believes will be a better one, even if it it total oblivion - that is still ‘better’ than the life he has, and so it is a survival action.

What I’m getting at here is that the Survive! postulate that LRH assumed as the basis of all life has a lot of workability in it. No one says it will go all the way but it certainly goes a very long way in explaining things and so we should not be too hasty in throwing it out.

Having (or being) a body with a reactive mind is then also considered to be pro-survival, and following the dictates and demands of this body/bank mechanism is very pro-survival too. This body plus bank system is the very best solution we had to the problems we experienced while being a free spirit, and today has become our biggest PTP - exactly per the pattern of wrong solutions. And this is where the hypnotised state comes in - the body and bank are mechanisms which operate automatically and which are fully based on the postulate to survive. This is why the bank is a self-protective mechanism - it was intended as a survival mechanism from the very start.

So who hypnotised us? We did it ourselves, and we did it in order to survive better. And that is all there is to it.

Implants are only effective if they parallel what the thetan is doing - that’s the glue that makes the guy hold on to his implant - they forward his own purpose line.

I agree with you that there have been individuals throughout history and in almost every culture who have “risen above the bank” (to use LRH’s phrase) and who managed to exert a tremendously good and lasting influence on that society, and this has enbled large groups of people to key out sufficiently and to establish very workable societies and cultures. Thank God for them, because I think without such beings this planet would really be a total madhouse.

The sudden flip that one observes should not surprise one too much. You see the same thing happen at hypnotism shows, you see it when young people “fall in love”, you see it in auditing sessions often when running heavy grief incidents > the preclear will boohoo while going through it and then be quite cheerful while telling the auditor about it all, and then you shove them back into it and they boohoo all over again. Fascinating to see. Someone or something just supplants the command centre in that person and away they go. I’ve experienced it myself.

That statement of "Social training and education sole guarrantee of sane conduct" is a horrifying one if you really look at it. Sole guarrantee. Wow.

Leon is correct here.

The "flip," as it is now being referred to, is simply the dramatization of an old wrong answer/solution to a threat to your survival and/or well being.

You attacked that which threatened you sufficiently. That was the major change-point to/of your relationship with others, and the major change-point to/of your own spiritual condition of existence.

It was a whole and complete change . . . and I won't get into listing all of the aspects or components of it here :no:

There is a particular incident, way, way back in our existence of this:)

Unfortunately, such solutions/wrong answers were put on automatic . . . i.e., "to always when . . . "

Also, they were created with no time specific . . . they have since their original creation and being put in place floated along with us in "spiritual no-time".

Of course, this old wrong answer produced its own problems which then had to be solved, and so it went: solution, resulting in a problem; solution, resulting in a problem; solution, resulting in a problem; etc., down into PT.

It is incorrect and an unsuitable label to use, the word "hypnotized."

It is more accurate to say that we are dramatizing and acting out on automatic our own created old solutions . . . . with a little help from others :yes:

And, by the way, it is this phenomenon of dramatizing in PT one's old solutions that causes all this shit to be occluded and hard to find . . . . for guess what? Occluding, burying it, denying it, avoiding and not knowing it, et al is also one of the solution practices we put in place. :yes:

RogerB

 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Leon - Outstanding last post.

Leon - Thanks for your last post. You covered all the bases and covered them well. There is not too much to comment on, the post speaks for itself. I have always been able to work with the "Survive!" principle of Hubbard's. As you say, it is not the absolute end all but it is a stable datum which can be used as a fixed reference point in studying life further. I like your ideas that beings hypnotize themselves and take on bodies and banks on their own in an effort to survive better and that implants are secondary to what the being has done to himself. It had not seen this data before and it resonated well with me. Great Post overall! Thank you.
Lakey
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron


It is incorrect and an unsuitable label to use, the word "hypnotized."

It is more accurate to say that we are dramatizing and acting out on automatic our own created old solutions . . . . with a little help from others

RogerB


There is a fine point here - a distinction that needs to be recognised. (a) when one is dramatising one's own past behaviour fully and (b) when one is dramtising the abandonment of self as control centre and allowing someone else in PT to do it for one.

With (a) we have the classic Dianetic dramatisation that Roger describes. With (b) we also have that but only to the extent of abandoning Self as Control Centre and then, in PT, allowing someone else to take over that control.

A slight difference. The second one is hypnotism proper, the first isn't.
 
Onward! Ever, onward...

"One of our boys works at a little internet startup called ebay. He is a high school graduate by the skin of his teeth. From the time he was fourteen, he drove us crazy by wrecking our computers in a myriad of ways. Now he gets to dress as an adult and go to a responsibly paying job. His earring sets off his five day growth of beard (how he keeps it at five days growth is beyond me). His shirts are all message shirts - such as "beer, it's not just for breakfast anymore!" go well with his shorts - even in winter. Caterpillar is the brand name on his high top steel toed work boots. His job at ebay is to bring ebay down. He's QA - Quality Assurance. Before ebay, he worked for the CIA at a front company, Apple, and a couple other places. His pay is adequate, mid six figure. Not bad for a high school grad. He's an alpha geek. He also skis backwards off a double black diamond cornice while filming his wife, son, and sister following him. Definitely not a nerd. Not introverted."

Say, does he have a single older brother for Heidrun or me, or Twinny? We like snow sports! :D LOL!

O.K., so our looky-loo readership stats are up, but poster quality remains high, which is more important, in my humble op... Lakey, thanks for the recognition, but you deserve much credit for being encouraged and going forward when I encouraged you...we could have fizzled out, and yet here we are rolling merrily along with mental/emotional/spiritual prosperity! :happydance:

I thank Leon and Roger for their comments. Yes, lack of awareness or being awake=hypnotized or brainwashed, pretty much the same effect in someone's life and attitudes...

My point is that most of us, those without organic brain damage, dysfunction or disability, are capable of all sorts of acts and attitudes, the Milgram experiment and all of the history of the world's atrocities carried out by otherwise seemingly "normal" people shows this. I just don't want us to point a finger at "those awful whomevers" (Christians, Muslims, Jews, Nazi's, Commies, Scientologists, you name it). There but for the grace of God (and my personal determinism) go I. Seek not to learn for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee...is all I'm sayin'. We all need to be aware of this, as fully as possible. Many of us here are capable of waking others up! A worthy endeavor.

Being pro-survival for yourself, your family or your group is a choice. One you make constantly, over and over throughout your existence. The ability to make choices that cause ripples of actions and events that move out beyond one's self, it the definition of a change agent, or a "big being", if you want to put it in those terms. We are all capable of being big in this determinism.

The question to ask yourself in each successive moment is: am I co-creating good or evil, or if you don't like the moral judgement angle of it (a nod to my atheistic friends), am I creating beneficial or harmful results with my thoughts, speech, intention, theta and actions?

I think the key is that some people are aware of how powerful their choices are, and others aren't. Speaking as a teacher, I would say this is is the key area where most are asleep, unaware, or hypnotized...what say you all? :)
 
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lkwdblds

Crusader
I see your point.

There is a fine point here - a distinction that needs to be recognised. (a) when one is dramatising one's own past behaviour fully and (b) when one is dramtising the abandonment of self as control centre and allowing someone else in PT to do it for one.

With (a) we have the classic Dianetic dramatisation that Roger describes. With (b) we also have that but only to the extent of abandoning Self as Control Centre and then, in PT, allowing someone else to take over that control.

A slight difference. The second one is hypnotism proper, the first isn't.

Leon, for what it is worth, I see your point, it is a very astute observation which you make and the kind of thing which I enjoy perceiving. I am into perceiving fine shades of differences between two or more items which at a cursory glance appear very similar.

In the case when you dramatize your past behavior, well you are definitely dramatizing and not being hypnotized. That is the easy leg of the two legs to see. Only slightly more difficult is the second leg, i.e. to see that if you are dramatizing abandoning Self as Control Centre, and then in PT, allowing someone else to take over that control (or that hat), then it is analagious to a hypnotist hypnotising you and planting suggestions into your mind of how you will behave and what stimuli you will react to; in essence you are allowing the hypnotist to take over control from you as far as runing your self.

This is a good example of critical thinking, i.e. discerning that those two dramatizations are not equivalent when it comes down to the question of whether one is being hypnotized or not.
Lakey
 
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