How Dangerous is New OTVII (Solo NOTs)

[Dulloldfart]

Regarding # 5 on Pauls (dulloldfart) post.... Maybe when we audit the cell we may be partly auditing the mitochondria. When I use the Rife machine it helps heal my hurting body parts, maybe I am just activating the mitochondria to repair the cell.

I have no personal reality on auditing cells. I remember the subject from the NOTs bulletins, and David talked about it, so I just stuck it in there as a possibility. People on NOTs are auditing little wispy bits of whatever, and maybe they have a physical counterpart.

Paul

 

[Ted]

The problem with supposed cancer with an OT would be there if he is adding too much extraneous "think" to his looking.

The condensation will take place from "think" to "mass" to "consumption" to "uncontrolled reproduction" to "oblivion."

.

Auditing a pc against his own determinism will make that pc worse. Auditing over an ARC break makes the pc worse. Auditing a person who is battling suppression will make the person worse. This is the extraneous bullshit facing a being on solo nots.

The pressure comes in the form of management to keep one's stats up or face ethics actions and expensive security checks. I speculate that if the auditing was done free and easy as the perceived need arose, there would be far fewer bad indicators, and far greater numbers of people being successful on the level.

My motto has always been, "Audit to live, not live to audit."

 

[Ted]

I have no personal reality on auditing cells. I remember the subject from the NOTs bulletins, and David talked about it, so I just stuck it in there as a possibility. People on NOTs are auditing little wispy bits of whatever, and maybe they have a physical counterpart.

Paul

There are, by my own experience, plenty of "little wispys." There are also some huge blankets of whatever-you-wanna-call-it that come peeling off, some of it quite unsettling when it leaves -- or apparently leaves. I say unsettling not because it should not have been dislodged but because the change is so huge it takes a moment to reorient.

All in all, I believe the trouble with NOTs is partly flawed theory, and partly the pressure to "get 'er done" when there may not be an actual done to get, the theory being flawed and all.

 

[Ted]

In 1952, Hubbard recommended not auditing entities, but focusing on the thetan and the thetan bank. "...simply making the thetan sufficiently strong, the entities become cowed and won't act up or even drop out and leave."

This is covered more in HOM.

By 1967 he had reversed his position on entity auditing with OT-3.

Hubbard was a man of opposites, the later Hubbard opposing the early Hubbard.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive."
-- Sir Walter Scott (Marmion, 1808)

 

[Vinaire]

In 1952, Hubbard recommended not auditing entities, but focusing on the thetan and the thetan bank. "...simply making the thetan sufficiently strong, the entities become cowed and won't act up or even drop out and leave."

This is covered more in HOM.

By 1967 he had reversed his position on entity auditing with OT-3.

Hubbard was a man of opposites, the later Hubbard opposing the early Hubbard.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive."
-- Sir Walter Scott (Marmion, 1808)

The basic lie is that of an identity versus individuality.

All identities are created. Anything created can also be destroyed. Thetan is a basic identity. To consider THETAN IS IMMORTAL is a lie. One is not naturally a thetan. ONE IS STATIC which is a condition and not a beingness.

One gives a beingness to God. That is a lie too.

When one is dealing with entities, one is dealing with "mocked up beingnesses."

THE BASIC STUCKNESS IS GETTING STUCK WITH THE CONCEPT OF BEINGNESS BEING PERMANENT.

Buddha penetrated this lie. As far as I can decipher from Sanskrit, "nirvana" translates literally as "no identity" or "no self."

Hubbard disagreed with "nirvana" by coming up the differentiation of "individuality" with "identity," and saying that one never loses one's identity.

But here is the deception: Hubbard never defines what an individuality is apart from beingness. He never defined it clearly. I think Hubbard associated "beingness" with Static too because I remember him using "statics" (plural).

So, Hubbard had misunderstood STATIC, which he borrowed from the Vedic concept of BRAHMA. Hubbard had misunderstood NIRVANA which he invalidated using the unclear concept of INDIVIDUALITY.

Please see

Axioms, Logics and Factors

.

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

A roundelay?

The basic lie is that of an identity versus individuality.

All identities are created. Anything created can also be destroyed. Thetan is a basic identity. To consider THETAN IS IMMORTAL is a lie. One is not naturally a thetan. ONE IS STATIC which is a condition and not a beingness.

One gives a beingness to God. That is a lie too.

When one is dealing with entities, one is dealing with "mocked up beingnesses."

THE BASIC STUCKNESS IS GETTING STUCK WITH THE CONCEPT OF BEINGNESS BEING PERMANENT.

Buddha penetrated this lie. As far as I can decipher from Sanskrit, "nirvana" translates literally as "no identity" or "no self."

Hubbard disagreed with "nirvana" by coming up the differentiation of "individuality" with "identity," and saying that one never loses one's identity.

But here is the deception: Hubbard never defines what an individuality is apart from beingness. He never defined it clearly. I think Hubbard associated "beingness" with Static too because I remember him using "statics" (plural).

So, Hubbard had misunderstood STATIC, which he borrowed from the Vedic concept of BRAHMA. Hubbard had misunderstood NIRVANA which he invalidated using the unclear concept of INDIVIDUALITY.

Please see

Axioms, Logics and Factors

.

Vin, I fear that if you continue in this vein that it's gonna all "unmock" and "it will be very lonely in the sky"!

I 'spose the good news is that a "static" creates his/her/its companions/emotions...errrr...we're right back where we started!

EP!

 

[ULRC/S]

Terrill,
>>>No expert, but Alan's 'tech" considers that entities are "spiritual teamates"
that one should embrace and stay connected to. If they wish.<<<

Sometimes yes, and sometimes no. You need to move on up the WBR bridge - all your questions/thoughts/conserations woul get answered with total clarity.

Regards, Allen

 

[Whitedove]

I know I have not posted for quite awhile. Most times I just stay clear from Scientology all together. Better for my own emotional health. I do read sometimes though. This particular subject really scares the shit out of me!

First, to believe that we have entities stuck to us is imo insane. It was mentioned that in exorcism it says 'who are you?' 'what are you?'. I have to say, I watched the exorcist and one of the most recent movies adressing possession 'the possession of Emily Rose'. That is a dangerous road to take imo. The similarities to both possession and auditing BTs is eery

The only one I can agree with but I think the approach is wrong is the identities. First, I dont believe we are 'nothing'. I think we have our own personal identity (not to confused with borrowed ones). Other identities could be most logically parents, friends, families members, etc....
Even people you admire like an artist. It can be so many people. But I believe the approach to that should be done with someone to help you as this must be very delicate and dangerous. I do not believe in the upper OT levels in themselves. Sorry. :confused2:
And see how similar it is to basic Dianetics?
Its just basic valences. If you didnt get rid of all valences before doing the OT levels, wouldnt that mean you need MORE Dianetics? So why not just use normal dianetics even with OTs when it comes to valences? Just something really wrong with the OT levels.

I dont know if Ron lost it at some point or if there is something else (hidden data). I cant say since I dont have all the true information. Only one that could give it to me would be Ron himself but he is dead. So...

I could say so much more on this but for now thats it.

Whitedove

 

[Whitedove]

I'm going to add something else about identities and why I find it interesting.

As some of you know over 7 years ago I got VERY sick. I was diagnosed with GAD (generalized anxiety disorder) although in my head nothing had changed but physically I just couldnt breathe for some reason. Well, the air was going through (I saw so many doctors about it and even a specialist). Anyway, I was hyperventilating, I was anxious. It was the most scary time of my entire life. And as you know after awhile I decided to take ADs and an anti anxiety and I did get better. Of course, it doesnt resolve the problem but at least I was able to function and had too much responsabilities to just sit there and wait till it pass. Plus I didnt when when and if it would pass

Anyway, my dad died of emphysema the previous September and I got sick the next July. My symptoms were so similar to my dad it was eery!
But my lungs were fine. So, with time and reading (not scientology) except that one thing about identities (not to be confused with BTs) to me it made some sense. I am not saying you shouldnt get medical attention. I am just saying since I went through a very obvious case of 'valence' I can say the identities theory makes alot of sense to me. Only thing, I dont have thousands of dollars. Soooo...screw that eh?
I believe if you want people to REALLY get better, help them without asking for money they dont have. It could have a rippled effect

That is the one thing with Scientology. Helping without a motive just doesnt exist. Again, my opinion.

Whitedove

 

[Lurker5]

Thanks, Dave/Mate

I try to keep my mind open, always, and yet stay on level solid ground - mentally.

I believe Chi is in everything, including rocks, LOL. But for living creatures, I think of it as soul energy. How it manifests differs for everyone and every creature.

Sometimes I am not sure if it is my imagination, or just my senses being hyper aware of surroundings, body language, tonal qualities, heat coming off a body, or coolness, or just knowing a person or pet to an extraordinary degree.

It's nice to contemplate what it is, try to discover it, deepen it, play with it, etc. But really, none of that matters. Just utilize it. My boss always comes to me to find things he has misplaced. It is a combination of all things that makes me able to deduce where he has laid it - LOL. I do the same thing when I have lost my keys, or misplaced something. It takes focus.

Intuition is a whole lot more than 'psychic ability' - which IMHO is just a term given to a phenomena not understood to be an ability to deduce 'something' due to a hyper awareness of things most people are oblivious to.

If trees 'talk' with you - Hallelujah. They are living. And I believe in souls - intelligent energy - that moves on - when a hosting body dies.

 

[Vinaire]

INDIVIDUALITY is the spiritual beingness, called the THETAN.
IDENTITY is a mental beingness.
BODY is a physical beingness.

Beyond beingness is BRAHMA, which is neither beingness, nor non-beingness. BRAHMA is beyond dichotomy.

Beingness is postulated (See Factor #1). Any postulate can also be un-postulated (as-ised). No beingness is permanent including the spiritual beingness called self, soul, or THETAN. In this matter of beingness Buddha is right. Hubbard is wrong. Nirvana is a senior concept to the concept of STATIC.

Hubbard held the idea that individuality is permanent. This went against what Buddha held. After a close examination I have found that Buddha has always been right. Hubbard coming from the Western civilization was trapped in idea that God is a beingness, and that there is a Supreme Being. He could never climb out of this trap.

But even then, Hubbard did a lot to systematize the subject of spirituality. My hats off to him. But this little error on his part about “individuality” trapped him into an ego, and he could never rise up to the level of Buddhahood.

And this little error also underlies the OT Levels that have the unintended affect of boosting up the ego in many cases instead of nullifying it.

.

 

[Vinaire]

If anybody here thinks that they are a Thetan...

THEN THEY ARE ALREADY POSSESSED...

They are just being afraid of themselves.

.

 

[Vinaire]

Vin, I fear that if you continue in this vein that it's gonna all "unmock" and "it will be very lonely in the sky"!

I 'spose the good news is that a "static" creates his/her/its companions/emotions...errrr...we're right back where we started!

EP!

This whole universe has come out of the fear of being nothing!

Which you are, in fact!

.

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

In verity!

This whole universe has come out of the fear of being nothing!

Which you are, in fact!

.

Vinaire,

I seldom attempt sobriety on the board - but may I give you the most sincere acknowledgement of which I am capable; and say that where you have gone, and perhaps are going, with your discourse and colloquy here is profoundly valuable and instructive.

Robert Persig and his "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" comes to mind as a somewhat similar, but less satisfying endeavor. (perhaps I should go back and reread Persig in a "new unit of time" and see whether that thought is on the mark or not) :confused2:

Please continue, to EP if possible.

Mike Horton
EP

 

[Vinaire]

Vinaire,

I seldom attempt sobriety on the board - but may I give you the most sincere acknowledgement of which I am capable; and say that where you have gone, and perhaps are going, with your discourse and colloquy here is profoundly valuable and instructive.

Robert Persig and his "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" comes to mind as a somewhat similar, but less satisfying endeavor. (perhaps I should go back and reread Persig in a "new unit of time" and see whether that thought is on the mark or not) :confused2:

Please continue, to EP if possible.

Mike Horton
EP

Thank you, Mike.

At the moment, my mind wants to put out so many realizations that are impossible to verbalize.

One thought is that one is hypnotized because one desperately wants to be hypnotized. Just look at the BIG TITS thread. SEX is a wonderful demonstration of the source of hypnotism. So is the havingness of this physical universe.

The other thought is that all that one is possessed of is misunderstanding that one is something and that must fear being nothing. Basically, one is beyond this dichotomy of something and nothing, which cannot be described.

.

 

[EP - Ethics Particle]

Something to consider.

Thank you, Mike.

At the moment, my mind wants to put out so many realizations that are impossible to verbalize.

One thought is that one is hypnotized because one desperately wants to be hypnotized. Just look at the BIG TITS thread. SEX is a wonderful demonstration of the source of hypnotism. So is the havingness of this physical universe.

The other thought is that all that one is possessed of is misunderstanding that one is something and that must fear being nothing. Basically, one is beyond this dichotomy of something and nothing, which cannot be described.

.

Without going "tinfoil hatty" here, Vinaire - I submit that the "realizations" that you uncover, develop and "have", perhaps do not require verbalization and that "having" them is sufficient for those tuned to compatible wavelengths.

Press on regardless and damn the torpedos is what I say!

EP

 

[Vinaire]

THETA is mathematical symbol customarily used for the unknown in an equation. Hubbard used it as an unknown in the equation of LIFE which has infinity of variables. So, basically we are solving here an infinite number of simultaneous equations, which no computer can ever solve by the means available today.

Hubbard was smart. He took a radically different approach, and that approach is still very good. Hubbard went astray, most likely, because he was on drugs, and drugs can stimulate your spiritual centers only to a limit.

Anyway, here is my current look:

THETAN (individuality) is a condensation of THETA.
IDENTITY is a condensation of THETAN.
BODY is a condensation of IDENTITY.

If you want to get rid of your cancer, really get a good understanding of the KNOW TO MYSTERY SCALE, and start LOOKING without using thinking, effort or emotions as your via.

You just have to uncondense.

Mathematics may help.

.

 

[Challenge]

No expert, but Alan's 'tech" considers that entities are "spiritual teamates"
that one should embrace and stay connected to. If they wish.

I have not done any of Alan's "tech", and I must say that the idea of "spiritual teammates " does not exist only within that tech. Many of us NOTs comps feel the same way about BT/Cls. See my posts re NOTs for the past 15 years.
Let me clarify the "if they wish" sentence in your post. The "they" in that sentence would be referring to the BT/CLs.

Challenge

 

[Challenge]

I'm going to add something else about identities and why I find it interesting.

As some of you know over 7 years ago I got VERY sick. I was diagnosed with GAD (generalized anxiety disorder) although in my head nothing had changed but physically I just couldnt breathe for some reason. Well, the air was going through (I saw so many doctors about it and even a specialist). Anyway, I was hyperventilating, I was anxious. It was the most scary time of my entire life. And as you know after awhile I decided to take ADs and an anti anxiety and I did get better. Of course, it doesnt resolve the problem but at least I was able to function and had too much responsabilities to just sit there and wait till it pass. Plus I didnt when when and if it would pass

Anyway, my dad died of emphysema the previous September and I got sick the next July. My symptoms were so similar to my dad it was eery!
But my lungs were fine. So, with time and reading (not scientology) except that one thing about identities (not to be confused with BTs) to me it made some sense. I am not saying you shouldnt get medical attention. I am just saying since I went through a very obvious case of 'valence' I can say the identities theory makes alot of sense to me. Only thing, I dont have thousands of dollars. Soooo...screw that eh?
I believe if you want people to REALLY get better, help them without asking for money they dont have. It could have a rippled effect

That is the one thing with Scientology. Helping without a motive just doesnt exist. Again, my opinion.

Whitedove

What you have described about your symptoms showing up just after your Father died, is what in Scn we referred to as "life continuum". I may have not spelled it correctly, but oldtimers in the subject know what I'm talking about.
LRH wrote and lectured about the "life continuum" a lot early on. In the auditing of Happiness Rundown, on the Valence blowing step, auditors see this life continuum frequently. Loosely explained, the person takes on the identity of the departed, and continues to live life as the departed one.

Challenge

 

[Lurker5]

Hubbard

I think Hubbard was a deluded nut case, more specifically a sociopath, who took partial truths and life experiences and expounded on them - guessed at it all actually - and then used that to milk money out of 'fools' who were innocent and/or good enough to believe in the swill he was preaching.

Then he spent his life on cementing everyone inside so he could live a cushy protected life for the rest of his life, while everyone else worked away their lives like robots making sure the money rolled in - for him. He rewarded the ones who were willing to sell out their consciences, feeding the dark side of human nature - and enslaved those 'fools' dumb enough to buy into the goodness of mankind.

I don't think good honest honorable people are fools - or dumb. He did. I believe he tricked people who were idealistic - and wanted a better world - for all. I think you are all brave souls, who got hoodwinked by probably the greatest con-man, a genius at it really, that ever lived. And those who fell to the dark side, if you are out, own it, make amends, however that seems fit to you, and move on. We begin each day anew, and can be the kind of person we choose to be.