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How Dangerous is New OTVII (Solo NOTs)


Re: How Dangerous is New OTVII (Solo NOTs)


It'll either bankrupt yah if you are a working stiff,

only to find out you don't know and can begin again. :laugh:

Or, if yah got bucks, you'll be donating to the IAS. :thumbsup:

only to find out you don't know and can begin again,


because all others below you as OT8 need to go up the bridge so you OT8 can experience OT9. :laugh:

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Part 5 . . . The Danger of OT3-S/NOTs

spirit, that bug of yours is like an april fools joke that never stops.:bug:

Be nice - it is a BT that one of the Oat Tea's got to leave his body and that BT ain't buying Scientology - so he landed here on EXSMB!!:wink2: He felt it was the safest place to BE if you are a "freed BT"!

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
An interesting calculation gives that 76 planets times 178 billion people = 13 528 billion BT's.

If we average 6,8 billion people right now on earth that would mean 13 528 / 6,8 = 1 989 BT's per person.

So each person could perhaps in total blow about 1500-2000 BT's depending on if they're attached to the soul or the body or floating around free etc.

What is the cost per BT release?

What is the cost per cluster release?

Is it more economical to release clusters rather than individual BT's?

If you like some of your BT's - is it okay if they stay?

Please, can someone do the average cost analysis?

I would also like to know what is the # of average BT's one may have?

I can't help it - I am a analyzer! I have an accounting background!:coolwink:

If David Miscavige was smarter - he would advertise the benefits of Scientology by announcing the savings because "YOU ASK THEM TO LEAVE" - you know, sort of a Cost per BT release verses other exorcisms done by other religions!

Idle Morgue

Gold Meritorious Patron
Re: Reply re: NOTs

Hello. It a pleasure to meet someone who has had your experience with NOTs.

I'm "thetagal" for the purpose of this board. Founding Scientologist 1951, and now my husband and I offer the entire bridge.

I'm shocked too, that any minimum amount of time for auditing would be mandatory. There is nothing in the materials about that.

This reply might cover some of your other post, too. I think probably we need to look at the definition of body thetans in a new unit of time. If we misidentity body thetans (which are additives to the body/thetan and not necessary for the survival of the body or body part) with a cell or life generated by a group of cells necessary to the whole of the organism, certainly that could cause difficulties. Running out cells was not the intention of NOTs. We aren't supposed to run out the body itself.

However, I'm opting for another possible solution to too many folks getting cancer. (Although please note even on those who don't get auditing, cancer is the second leader of cause of death in the US) Consider the possibility of overrun or unflat Purifs.
It is Purif that runs the radiation out of the body among other things. Good old niacin restimulating so it will run out on a cellular basis (the radiation of course, not the cells). It turns on the engram somatics of past radiations. If it is run properly and all that turns on turns off, not a problem.

I've noticed in the past AO was adamant that everyone had a Purif whether they needed it or not. The purpose of the purif is so that the pc will run well in auditing. It didn't come out until the 70's. I refused the Purif as I was already running well and was original OT VI at the time. I got back from AO that unless I did the purif I couldn't have any more auditing. Odd c/sing. No D of P after I still said "no."

I also did 14 years of solo NOTs outside of the COS, and that ended over 10 years ago. No cancer.

NOTs was originally done by David Mayo (badly devaluated by the RTC) and the purpose was to recover those pcs who had been run on Dianetics after NOTs, to clean up any misidentification of cases. I don't think it was ever intended to be endless.

I'm sorry that you had to work under the RTC's way of doing tech.

If you want to continue this I would rather not do more on this board. You may write me at [email protected] if you would like to. Thetagal.

Thetagal - thanks for this information. What were some of your wins on this level? What was promised and what did you experience from doing this for 14 years?



just another son of God
Re: Part 5 . . . The Danger of OT3-S/NOTs

Be nice - it is a BT that one of the Oat Tea's got to leave his body and that BT ain't buying Scientology - so he landed here on EXSMB!!:wink2: He felt it was the safest place to BE if you are a "freed BT"!
So what do we do with this guy?



"Astral projection may not be real, and a lot of the spiritual psychics may be wrong about what it is they are "hearing", or "seeing", but I don't think it's fair to say they are insane. I think a lot of us have voices in our heads, and sometimes we mumble to ourselves giving voice to them. Sometimes we aren't aware of these voices, consciously. What these mystics are perceiving is these voices, IMO, which are better understood as fragments of themselves in a loop, or as projections, rather than entities with independent existence. While such entities MIGHT exist, I've never seen any evidence of them as real, independently existing entities with valid information about the intersubjective world we are all apparently living in. This sort of intrapsychic noise is the target of some valid clearing practices, IMO. However, those who push the idea that these voices, or entities should be considered "real", rather than simply discharged, are in very dangerous water, pretty much training themselves to become paranoid schizophrenics. Recognizing a voice in your head is a GOOD thing. Validating it as an independently existing entity is NOT a good thing. Instead, one should discover the origin of this voice, when it started "talking", and how it divided from the self. People who are battered severely can develop disassociative identity disorder (what used to be called multiple personality disorder). I think this is just an extreme form, which serves as an obvious example of the problem. I think many people have a much lower intensity of this problem, and that many people have it in such a low intensity that it doesn't bother them except for stray thoughts or random impulses that seem to come from someone else.

Many new-agers and scientologists/FZ scientologists have accepted these entities as having independent existence and are in a grey area, as far as sanity is concerned, to me. Where they engage in activities to fight such entities as if they existed in intersubjective space, I think they've crossed over the line into insanity. Where they audit them, and simply don't accept them as their genuine self, I think they're generally okay, but in danger.

Hubbard talked about Clears being in danger after going clear, until they went through OT III. I think it's very true that a person who has quieted their mind through meditation or other practices (such as auditing) could become aware of these fragments/voices, etc. If they were trained to believe that they had independent existence, then I think they ARE in danger, just as Ron said, because god knows what these little fragments are the result of (probably severe trauma causing disassociation, but possibly just a desired reality that speaks to the person), and what they could cause the person who takes them in this way seriously to do. However, a person who recognizes them as projections or divisions within himself stands no real danger, I don't think, except the danger of becoming a bit introverted trying to analyze their origins, and either dismiss them, or reincorporate them into themself in a healthy way. Clearing practices CAN help with this, but not when they are inverted, such as the implant platens of CC-OTII, which only reinforce the person's belief in their independent existence while hypnotically inducing a strange belief-set in science-fiction "implants" and paranoia.

There: now I've pissed of the independent field, or at least those who are invested in continuing to justify their beliefs in phenomena which are not demonstrably true, which give them special status as psychic or "sensitives", or "OTs" for that matter."


My take:
One is creating all space. Growth is understanding the space one is creating. It is already completely created so no further create is necessary. The process of understanding is moving into that space and fully occupying it. This can take what seems to be an instant, or some period of time. But it is completely and only your willingness to occupy that space, no matter what is there, that determines what is called "case". But there is no case, my opinion. You just decide what you want to see.

If one creates something additional in order to occupy space, no matter how, this adds to the process. Maybe it seems to help, maybe it doesn't. But the most direct route is always to look, see, and occupy. To do otherwise would be like deciding one has to pick up a ball every time one moves across the room. Why do that? You are the only one who knows where you want to look, what is the next step to occupy, what is your "path". How could someone else possibly know the exact methodology necessary to identify a space and direct you to it? Physically impossible. Like someone in a wheelchair being pushed, you would need to create being crippled first.

Since every point in this universe is "alive"-God is everywhere-recognition of that life will be part of the process. But it will only be an issue to the degree one doesn't want to occupy that space. What is created there, is there. You "personal" create may not need to address all of God's create to move on to other space. Some space is likely pretty packed with stuff. But once one sees it adequately, however that is for the individual, it becomes simply space and no more looking is necessary to understand it. To attempt do more is less understanding because one is creating more stuff unconsciously. Which if you want to understand is no fun.

I'm not going to try to match you comment or statement for statement. BUT IMO your description of what some or all are auditing on OT7 is causing a spiritual holocaust and is destroying spiritual space. IMO moving into " God Space " is in actuality moving into another being space. A really smart big being, perhaps he was Yawha or Jesus or both, and has been working to build up earth societies and cultures for thousands of years. In moving into this space, which belongs to another being, OT7s are really sorta making themselves into big BTs. In addition, moving in, pushing in a straight line into this space, kinda seats them "inside" god. So they are in effect trying to kill god space from the inside out, as they claim false ownership of that space. They think they've won but in reality, they have lost.

All OT7s are trying to sit inside the same space, instead of creating their own space.
And the space they have confused as being "open" really belongs to one spiritual being that is alive and walking around with a body on earth. This is another reason c of s is failing....


Patron with Honors
I had previously looked at the subject of NOTs in my "Scientology Tech Evaluated" thread. BTW, NOTs is the abbreviation of New Era Dianetics for OTs.

1) I came across the subject of Cellular Biology, also known as the New Biology. I was astonished to find that it had been discovered that cells are conscious. That’s right, cells are not only living entities, but they are conscious. It was also discovered that contrary to Darwin’s “survival of the fittest”, cells cooperate for their survival.

When one is auditing on Solo NOTs, one senses where an entity is by detecting a mental interaction or consciousness. As it is estimated that the human body contains some 50 trillion cells, Could it be that solo NOTs auditors are, in fact, auditing cells? This would certainly answer the question as to where all of the BTs come from.

2) When an entity leaves its body, the body dies. So when the conscious part of a cell, leaves as a result of solo auditing, such as in solo NOTs, the cell dies.

3) So that instead of dying, as cells do in an acid environment, some cells survive by becoming abnormal cells. These abnormal cells do not react to one’s cerebral instructions nor do they follow the body’s DNA memory code, so as a result, they simply continue grow. These are, of course, called malignant or cancer cells.

4) As an aside, keeping the body alkaline would help. This could be achieved through diet by avoiding “fast foods, microwave dinners, preprocessed package meals, and eating lots of fruit and vegetables.

5) (Earlier quote in your post) So where do all the BTs in NOTs come from? Is it the same ones coming back after blowing, is the pre-OT picking up more between sessions, is the pre-OT mocking them up? Whichever it is, this is very disturbing and may account for the high incidence of cancer deaths among new OT7 and new OT8 completions, that is, those who are no longer auditing NOTs.

Regards, David.

Having audited on OT III - VII (including GAT VII) my opinion is that Hubbard's ideas about body thetans (BTs) are false and stupid; there are no such entities as body thetans.

1) Hubbard mentioned cellular memory in Dianetics. Later on he seemed to come to a similar conclusion as yours and that the body is composed of body thetans. Hubbard had other speculations too, like the dwindling spiral, that were all caused by body thetans.

2) No. Hubbard's idea was that BTs had only a negative effects on a person and his body. Blowing BTs on OT VII would have only a positive effect on the body.

3) No. Your hypothesis in #2 is wrong. Here's a good explanation of cancer cells.

4) Eating protein and vegetables has always been good advice but alkaline levels aren't affected by what you eat: "Your body's acidity is not, in any way, affected by the pH of what you eat or drink. Eating alkaline food stimulates production of acidic digestive enzymes, and eating acidic foods causes the stomach to produce fewer acids. Your body's primary mechanism for the control of pH is the exhalation of carbon dioxide, which governs the amount of carbonic acid in the blood. Nor has there ever been any plausible research that shows any connection between these diseases and body acidity, this also appears to be completely made up."

5) Most Scientologists are taught to avoid medical doctors so they don't take advantage of simple routines (like an annual physical, colonoscopy, monitoring blood pressure, etc.) that are beneficial to a healthy life. Usually Scientologists ignore their symptoms or try to handle their illness with some quack solution. So when they discover they have cancer it's usually in the later stages with no effective treatment.

All the BT handling in Scientology is dangerous but not for the reasons you mention. The irony is Hubbard was ultimately the victim of his own creation. He died in seclusion afraid of people as a pathetic, decrepit man.