I guess it is time I did this . . .
- Thread starter Lurker5
- Start date
TheProphet
Patron
I believe Hubbard borrowed that from General Semantics (something I used to be a fan of as a teenager btw) and got it a bit mixed up. Reading that Wikipedia article might make more sense.
[/OT]
Please continue Lurker5, plenty of people reading here
Lurker5
Gold Meritorious Patron
what happned to ?
Wow, I already answered this once this morn, and got kicked off ESMB, due to tech problems. I tried to get back in and could not, rebooted, then ESMB site down, but not anything else. So I cleaned up some stuff and came back to ESMB, and my answering post was gone. Oh well.
I am getting paranoid -
Couch guy was 'snapped' (as in jerked faster than you can blink an eye) back into the scn bldg to 'live'. We figured he would be put on a course, as in study, to get his ethics in, meaning you don't go live somewhere without money to pay rent, buy food, etc - you know, take care of self . . .
We had no idea.
Although I don't really have any memory of this, I bet my friend looked for him every time she went down there, and maybe asked about him too. She probably felt bad that she got in him more trouble than she thought.
REALLY - WE HAD NO IDEA !
Your story is good Lurker5. I'm a little hung up.What did happen to that guy who slept on her couch?
Wow, I already answered this once this morn, and got kicked off ESMB, due to tech problems. I tried to get back in and could not, rebooted, then ESMB site down, but not anything else. So I cleaned up some stuff and came back to ESMB, and my answering post was gone. Oh well.
I am getting paranoid -
Couch guy was 'snapped' (as in jerked faster than you can blink an eye) back into the scn bldg to 'live'. We figured he would be put on a course, as in study, to get his ethics in, meaning you don't go live somewhere without money to pay rent, buy food, etc - you know, take care of self . . .
We had no idea.
Although I don't really have any memory of this, I bet my friend looked for him every time she went down there, and maybe asked about him too. She probably felt bad that she got in him more trouble than she thought.
REALLY - WE HAD NO IDEA !
Lurker5
Gold Meritorious Patron
yeah - i figured that out LOL
Yeah, Cherished - I figured that out - more on this at the end of my story.
Believe me, lurker5, the Church of Scientology counts you as a Scientologist.
Carry on.
Yeah, Cherished - I figured that out - more on this at the end of my story.
Disinfected
Patron Meritorious
Wow, I already answered this once this morn, and got kicked off ESMB, due to tech problems. I tried to get back in and could not, rebooted, then ESMB site down, but not anything else. So I cleaned up some stuff and came back to ESMB, and my answering post was gone. Oh well.
I am getting paranoid -
Couch guy was 'snapped' (as in jerked faster than you can blink an eye) back into the scn bldg to 'live'. We figured he would be put on a course, as in study, to get his ethics in, meaning you don't go live somewhere without money to pay rent, buy food, etc - you know, take care of self . . .
We had no idea.
Although I don't really have any memory of this, I bet my friend looked for him every time she went down there, and maybe asked about him too. She probably felt bad that she got in him more trouble than she thought.
REALLY - WE HAD NO IDEA !
Are you saying you "had no idea" as a tease to telling us what actually happened to him or is that it as concerns him?
Lurker5
Gold Meritorious Patron
Prt 2 Ethics Course & How I did NOT Become a Scn'ist
To clarify, while thinking on this last night, I remembered I had read about scn once before, in the book "What Ever Happened to the Class of '65". My friend and I had both read and really liked that book BEFORE we'd even met each other. One of the 65 grads interviewed for that book was in scn after high school, and in the SO - too. The book wasn't flattering, but not denigrating to scn - either. It was a very small part of the book - not something I or my friend ever discussed, or really thought about when that book came up in conversation. Maybe that is why it slipped my mind. It came back last night, because I was thinking of how scn has just dogged me most of my adult life - Oh yeah, there was that book, Class of '65 - THAT was the very first bite. . . I'd forgotten about that.
*****
I started the Ethics Course. Now I may be a bit confused here. When I first started thinking back on this, I thought maybe I'd done a course on SPs/PTS -- too -- BEFORE the Ethics Crs ?? Is there such a course? But then I started thinking - Nooo - that was probably IN the Ethics Course - because I got all re-stimulated in that course - AND - I can remember being confused with the course - Why are we talking (figuratively speaking) about SPs and PTS in an ETHICS course?
I don't really remember anything about it - LOL. I remember what HAPPENED.
I met my course supervisor. Oh, another aside: When I first came to this/these boards, I thought S/C was an abbrev for course super. I've come to realize in my reading here that it means CASE super (to do with auditing) - right? Not the same thing. Am I right? Well, I am still picking up the lingo, and info on inside stuff.
I met my crs sup and his wife, the Ethics Officer. Does that mean she was SO? I am not sure. Does the E/O have to be SO? I don't think my crs sup was SO. He was Staff. She did not wear a uniform. I don't really remember uniforms, but I do recall being told Sea Org was in residence, or around, or there, or something. I am sure I saw some SO, or had them pointed out to me, but do not remember uniforms. Maybe they were subtle, or maybe they just stay incognito, like wall paper, old cars and spies. This was during a bad time, I think, for non SO scn'ists, and orgs/missions.
I really liked my crs sup and his wife. Let me call them Joe Goodman and his E/O wife Tallen Stately - no real names here.
I REALLY came to LIKE my crs super Joe Goodman. If he hadn't been married, I'd have had a huge crush on him, might have fallen in love. But I had ethics - and didn't do stuff like that to fellow women - you don't steal another woman's man. So I drew a line in the sand, not to go over in feelings/emotions/actions, and began befriending them both. I had great respect for her, as E/O. Ethics means a lot to me . . .
E/O Tallen Stately must have started talking to me about joining, and getting on staff, and she may have mentioned Sea Org too. I don't think I brought any of that up. But we ended up talking about it. I remember feeling a bit of pressure. Just a bit. You know - there are no half ways, it's all or nothing - kind of talk. Hell, I didn't mind being half-way, one foot in, one foot out. I was still checking it out, thinking it over, and the boat hadn't left the dock yet, so I felt I was on good ground. So to speak.
And ooooh, as class continued, did I ever come to like my crs sup. He was such a kind and gentle soul, and he really had a desire to help people. And he wasn't bad to look at either. And he liked me too - as a friend. I never felt he was crossing the line - or me either. We kept our distance, especially emotional distance. But we had a connection. I often saw him and Tallen together. They were a great couple.
Tallen called me into her office, and gave me an application. I think it was for staff, not SO. I glanced at it quickly, and stuck it in my purse, saying I'll read this later. I don't think I was supposed to do that. She let me, and I ended up at home with it. I read it - at my leisure, and something went off in my head - UGH OH. Look at the wages info - My God, they don't take out taxes, as it is a church. WTF? (Just so you know, I probably did not have that phrase back then, but the 'feeling/reaction' was very like that).
Hey, I'd been around a bit, wasn't a newbie fresh out of high school, flipping burgers at McD's and wondering what I was going to do in life. I'd struggled to find and make a living, and take care of myself. And even though I was in flux, my life/job changing, I HAD reached a comfortable place of being able to take care of myself (and knowing I could), with a few extra bucks to spare for vacations, classes, fun stuff - like scn. I'd be damned if I'd give all that up, for a measly living, that didn't even take the right taxes out . . . church or not. What is so special about a church anyway (never went growing up, though not opposed to it or religion)?
Well, maybe I could do it in my spare time???? But not JOIN. Just help out. I don't join stuff . . . that going off in my head.
I was beginning to feel something dark and heavy in that place. I didn't focus on it, but just sort of acknowledged it to myself. It just felt secretive and sinister. And it was building. Something wasn't quite right, but I couldn't figure out what was bothering me. I didn't push that feeling away. I just let it be. I'd already learned in my life to not dismiss feelings like that, that gut-feel, that something isn't right. Learned that lesson, big time.
And it was being restimulated as I read in the Ethics book about SPs. Back then there wasn't the word 'sociopath' - or if there was, I didn't know it, never had heard it. I'd heard of serial kiillers, like Ted Bundy, but the term was psychopath, like Norman Bates in Psycho - Only Ted passed as normal, and I think that was a new thing to the world. Well, not new, but first time the news of it could travel far and wide, and shock folks. A seemingly NORMAL person being a serial killer - a pyschopath - hidden among us. Serial and Spree killers were getting famous around this time period, people taking notice, for first time probably since Jack the Ripper - and Truman Capote's "In Cold Blood".
Mine was more like a Scott Peterson, or Drew Peterson, an OJ Simpson type, a seemingly 'normal' great guy, who ends up trying to kill, perhaps getting away with it - more than once. And no one suspects.
But I got away.
And that was being restimulated as I read about SPs. SP was the only word, the only 'name', I'd ever heard of that indentified this person - for what he was - to me.
Believe me, I had spent many a waking hour wondering what the hell had happened to me (and many nights with bad dreams). Who was he to have done that, and WHY - ? And why was I attracted to him, and him to me, and what did that say about me? When I first met him I didn't even believe in Evil. Sure bad things happened, and some people did bad things, but everyone has good in them, and all we have to do is UNDERSTAND them, LOVE them, and the good will come out. Naive, idealistic, a child of the 60's/70's . . .
Yep, the old 'inside every bad boy is a good boy trying to get out', the misunderstood youth crap. Gees, do I have to tell you, I was a huge fan of S.E. Hinton's books, "The Outsiders", "Rumble Fish", "Tex", etc. (And the movies that came out - but were they out at this time ? - not sure - don't think so - those movies came out in 80's, right?). (Shades of Tom Cruise, hey).
I was that Good Girl - And mama's tell your baby girls about Outlaws.
"Ladies love Outlaws like babies love stray dogs."
But it is not good.
When it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck - it IS a freakin' duck. Same with Evil.
In the aftermath of my personal ordeal, I had no other word for 'him' but Evil. He was Evil. And that haunted me, for years. I have spent an adult-life time researching out 'psychopaths/sociopaths/Evil' - and by extension, becaude of what happened there - SCN.
****
So, there I am in Ethics, with my dreamy Crs Sup, Joe, the MARRIED GoodGoodman, and I am having some troubles - with the course, with what I am reading. Yes, I am getting re-stimulated, with my past, but also lots and lots of questions are coming up for me - about what I am reading. And that dark heavy feeling is coming down on me, pressing in on me, making me feel very uncomfortable, and leary. And every time I looked at a picture of LRH, my skin crawled, my nose wrinkled/crinkled up, like a drug dog sniffing pot.
I didn't like him.
So there I am, reading Ethics, and I get to this one paragraph. Going into it I was myself, in my own mind, a 'not joiner' - I am Not a scn !. At the end of the paragraph, to my utter surprise, and confoundment, I WAS A SCN !.
WTF? What just happened here? I had no idea how 'they' did that. So I took a moment to get myself back, get back into my head. I am NOT a scn - I am not a joiner. Then I started again on the same paragraph. And, I'll be damned, it happened AGAIN. By the end of it, I WAS A SCN !
WTF? I took another moment to get back in my own head, NOT, NO JOINER, and started the paragraph over again, this time looking for 'it'. Where is "it", that word/sentence that is 'flipping' me ? Where are 'they' 'getting' me?
Slowly, re-reading each and every sentence, word for word, trying to identify the 'trip-lever' - and NOT FINDING IT !
WTF ! Here I am AGAIN, at the end of it, a SCN ! So I started over AGAIN, wiping my head clean, and word for word, sentence by sentence - - .
By this time, Joe MyMcDreamy, is by my side.
You knew that was coming, huh.
"Are you having problems?" "Yes." And I started asking my questions, all the stuff that had been piling up in my head, one by one, What about this, and this and this and that, blah blah. I was having a normal conversation. He was getting books off of shelves and reading me stuff, and quoting LRH, and having me read stuff aloud, look up words, blah blah. I was getting VERY frustrated. I didn't want to know what LRH thought - or said. I wanted to know what he - Joe MyMcDreamy - thought about all this. I wanted to hear HIM reply to my questions . . .
REALLY, I had no fucking idea . . .
And no, this is not going where you think it is.
I am stopping here, just to post it, because it is long, but will start in again on next part - that is, if I am not kicked out again, losing all this - God forbid.
Getting paranoid !
To clarify, while thinking on this last night, I remembered I had read about scn once before, in the book "What Ever Happened to the Class of '65". My friend and I had both read and really liked that book BEFORE we'd even met each other. One of the 65 grads interviewed for that book was in scn after high school, and in the SO - too. The book wasn't flattering, but not denigrating to scn - either. It was a very small part of the book - not something I or my friend ever discussed, or really thought about when that book came up in conversation. Maybe that is why it slipped my mind. It came back last night, because I was thinking of how scn has just dogged me most of my adult life - Oh yeah, there was that book, Class of '65 - THAT was the very first bite. . . I'd forgotten about that.
*****
I started the Ethics Course. Now I may be a bit confused here. When I first started thinking back on this, I thought maybe I'd done a course on SPs/PTS -- too -- BEFORE the Ethics Crs ?? Is there such a course? But then I started thinking - Nooo - that was probably IN the Ethics Course - because I got all re-stimulated in that course - AND - I can remember being confused with the course - Why are we talking (figuratively speaking) about SPs and PTS in an ETHICS course?
I don't really remember anything about it - LOL. I remember what HAPPENED.
I met my course supervisor. Oh, another aside: When I first came to this/these boards, I thought S/C was an abbrev for course super. I've come to realize in my reading here that it means CASE super (to do with auditing) - right? Not the same thing. Am I right? Well, I am still picking up the lingo, and info on inside stuff.
I met my crs sup and his wife, the Ethics Officer. Does that mean she was SO? I am not sure. Does the E/O have to be SO? I don't think my crs sup was SO. He was Staff. She did not wear a uniform. I don't really remember uniforms, but I do recall being told Sea Org was in residence, or around, or there, or something. I am sure I saw some SO, or had them pointed out to me, but do not remember uniforms. Maybe they were subtle, or maybe they just stay incognito, like wall paper, old cars and spies. This was during a bad time, I think, for non SO scn'ists, and orgs/missions.
I really liked my crs sup and his wife. Let me call them Joe Goodman and his E/O wife Tallen Stately - no real names here.
I REALLY came to LIKE my crs super Joe Goodman. If he hadn't been married, I'd have had a huge crush on him, might have fallen in love. But I had ethics - and didn't do stuff like that to fellow women - you don't steal another woman's man. So I drew a line in the sand, not to go over in feelings/emotions/actions, and began befriending them both. I had great respect for her, as E/O. Ethics means a lot to me . . .
E/O Tallen Stately must have started talking to me about joining, and getting on staff, and she may have mentioned Sea Org too. I don't think I brought any of that up. But we ended up talking about it. I remember feeling a bit of pressure. Just a bit. You know - there are no half ways, it's all or nothing - kind of talk. Hell, I didn't mind being half-way, one foot in, one foot out. I was still checking it out, thinking it over, and the boat hadn't left the dock yet, so I felt I was on good ground. So to speak.
And ooooh, as class continued, did I ever come to like my crs sup. He was such a kind and gentle soul, and he really had a desire to help people. And he wasn't bad to look at either. And he liked me too - as a friend. I never felt he was crossing the line - or me either. We kept our distance, especially emotional distance. But we had a connection. I often saw him and Tallen together. They were a great couple.
Tallen called me into her office, and gave me an application. I think it was for staff, not SO. I glanced at it quickly, and stuck it in my purse, saying I'll read this later. I don't think I was supposed to do that. She let me, and I ended up at home with it. I read it - at my leisure, and something went off in my head - UGH OH. Look at the wages info - My God, they don't take out taxes, as it is a church. WTF? (Just so you know, I probably did not have that phrase back then, but the 'feeling/reaction' was very like that).
Hey, I'd been around a bit, wasn't a newbie fresh out of high school, flipping burgers at McD's and wondering what I was going to do in life. I'd struggled to find and make a living, and take care of myself. And even though I was in flux, my life/job changing, I HAD reached a comfortable place of being able to take care of myself (and knowing I could), with a few extra bucks to spare for vacations, classes, fun stuff - like scn. I'd be damned if I'd give all that up, for a measly living, that didn't even take the right taxes out . . . church or not. What is so special about a church anyway (never went growing up, though not opposed to it or religion)?
Well, maybe I could do it in my spare time???? But not JOIN. Just help out. I don't join stuff . . . that going off in my head
.I was beginning to feel something dark and heavy in that place. I didn't focus on it, but just sort of acknowledged it to myself. It just felt secretive and sinister. And it was building. Something wasn't quite right, but I couldn't figure out what was bothering me. I didn't push that feeling away. I just let it be. I'd already learned in my life to not dismiss feelings like that, that gut-feel, that something isn't right. Learned that lesson, big time.
And it was being restimulated as I read in the Ethics book about SPs. Back then there wasn't the word 'sociopath' - or if there was, I didn't know it, never had heard it. I'd heard of serial kiillers, like Ted Bundy, but the term was psychopath, like Norman Bates in Psycho - Only Ted passed as normal, and I think that was a new thing to the world. Well, not new, but first time the news of it could travel far and wide, and shock folks. A seemingly NORMAL person being a serial killer - a pyschopath - hidden among us. Serial and Spree killers were getting famous around this time period, people taking notice, for first time probably since Jack the Ripper - and Truman Capote's "In Cold Blood".
Mine was more like a Scott Peterson, or Drew Peterson, an OJ Simpson type, a seemingly 'normal' great guy, who ends up trying to kill, perhaps getting away with it - more than once. And no one suspects.
But I got away.
And that was being restimulated as I read about SPs. SP was the only word, the only 'name', I'd ever heard of that indentified this person - for what he was - to me.
Believe me, I had spent many a waking hour wondering what the hell had happened to me (and many nights with bad dreams). Who was he to have done that, and WHY - ? And why was I attracted to him, and him to me, and what did that say about me? When I first met him I didn't even believe in Evil. Sure bad things happened, and some people did bad things, but everyone has good in them, and all we have to do is UNDERSTAND them, LOVE them, and the good will come out. Naive, idealistic, a child of the 60's/70's . . .
Yep, the old 'inside every bad boy is a good boy trying to get out', the misunderstood youth crap. Gees, do I have to tell you, I was a huge fan of S.E. Hinton's books, "The Outsiders", "Rumble Fish", "Tex", etc. (And the movies that came out - but were they out at this time ? - not sure - don't think so - those movies came out in 80's, right?). (Shades of Tom Cruise, hey).
I was that Good Girl - And mama's tell your baby girls about Outlaws.
"Ladies love Outlaws like babies love stray dogs."
But it is not good.
When it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck - it IS a freakin' duck. Same with Evil.
In the aftermath of my personal ordeal, I had no other word for 'him' but Evil. He was Evil. And that haunted me, for years. I have spent an adult-life time researching out 'psychopaths/sociopaths/Evil' - and by extension, becaude of what happened there - SCN.
****
So, there I am in Ethics, with my dreamy Crs Sup, Joe, the MARRIED GoodGoodman, and I am having some troubles - with the course, with what I am reading. Yes, I am getting re-stimulated, with my past, but also lots and lots of questions are coming up for me - about what I am reading. And that dark heavy feeling is coming down on me, pressing in on me, making me feel very uncomfortable, and leary. And every time I looked at a picture of LRH, my skin crawled, my nose wrinkled/crinkled up, like a drug dog sniffing pot.
I didn't like him.
So there I am, reading Ethics, and I get to this one paragraph. Going into it I was myself, in my own mind, a 'not joiner' - I am Not a scn !. At the end of the paragraph, to my utter surprise, and confoundment, I WAS A SCN !.
WTF? What just happened here? I had no idea how 'they' did that. So I took a moment to get myself back, get back into my head. I am NOT a scn - I am not a joiner. Then I started again on the same paragraph. And, I'll be damned, it happened AGAIN. By the end of it, I WAS A SCN !
WTF? I took another moment to get back in my own head, NOT, NO JOINER, and started the paragraph over again, this time looking for 'it'. Where is "it", that word/sentence that is 'flipping' me ? Where are 'they' 'getting' me?
Slowly, re-reading each and every sentence, word for word, trying to identify the 'trip-lever' - and NOT FINDING IT !
WTF ! Here I am AGAIN, at the end of it, a SCN ! So I started over AGAIN, wiping my head clean, and word for word, sentence by sentence - - .
By this time, Joe MyMcDreamy, is by my side.
You knew that was coming, huh.
"Are you having problems?" "Yes." And I started asking my questions, all the stuff that had been piling up in my head, one by one, What about this, and this and this and that, blah blah. I was having a normal conversation. He was getting books off of shelves and reading me stuff, and quoting LRH, and having me read stuff aloud, look up words, blah blah. I was getting VERY frustrated. I didn't want to know what LRH thought - or said. I wanted to know what he - Joe MyMcDreamy - thought about all this. I wanted to hear HIM reply to my questions . . .
REALLY, I had no fucking idea . . .
And no, this is not going where you think it is.
I am stopping here, just to post it, because it is long, but will start in again on next part - that is, if I am not kicked out again, losing all this - God forbid.
Getting paranoid !
Last edited:
Lurker5
Gold Meritorious Patron
Yikes !
I saved my draft in case I got kicked off again, and now when I went to post again, the draft came up. I erased it to write this - and I hope I did not erase the whole thing as I posted it. I am still learning to navigate around boards. Bear with me. :confused2: Here goes . . .
I saved my draft in case I got kicked off again, and now when I went to post again, the draft came up. I erased it to write this - and I hope I did not erase the whole thing as I posted it. I am still learning to navigate around boards. Bear with me. :confused2: Here goes . . .
Disinfected
Patron Meritorious
Interesting. Curious to see where this goes.
Are you done with the "couch-sleeper" or does he show up again?
BTW, C/S is over auditing, the course sup is just sup. EO is a non-SO org term, in the Sea Org they are MAA - Master-at-Arms.
Are you done with the "couch-sleeper" or does he show up again?
BTW, C/S is over auditing, the course sup is just sup. EO is a non-SO org term, in the Sea Org they are MAA - Master-at-Arms.
Lurker5
Gold Meritorious Patron
Hi, Disinfected
Whew - but my old draft keeps coming up when I go to post. I erased it again for this -
Disinfected - I meant by 'having no idea' that we had no idea about the inner workings of scn, about how much trouble he probably got into. In the woggy world people get into 'trouble' in a different way. They get 'talked' to, grounded, are taught to take responsibility for their errors/mistakes, and to make amends, apologize, pay for the damage, whatever. They don't disappear off the face of the planet, never to be seen again, especially not for a mistake, or something as simple as being young and irresponsible.
We never knew what happened to him. If we had, we'd have been shocked and horrified - I can only imagine his fate. At the time we had no clue. We were Wog through and through. (We never saw him again.)
I was about to find out, though . . .
Oh yeah, I forgot this part - while on Ethics Course, and talking with Tallen about joining staff, and talking sea org stuff, she mentioned RFP. And LOOKED at me . . . with great intent . . . And I asked "What is that?". And she yammered a bit about a rehabilitation place.
This really freaked me out, it felt so sinister and nasty, though she didn't say it that way. The word 'rehabilitation' just struck me so - so - so - malevalent. It sent chills up my spine, raised the hair at the back of my neck, just adding to the heavy darkness I was sensing about the place by this time. I have no idea how that conversation came up. She WAS checking me out for something, but I had no clue what. Was she warning me? OR testing me? Checking me out?
I have no idea - to this day, why she brought it up, or what it meant.
OH MY GOD, I just figured something out - this just occurred to me - assuming this happened after couch guy got yanked - MAYBE (?) she was hinting to me what happened to him, or checking to see if I understood what had happened to him - - ? MAYBE - BUT- he didn't have anything to do with me. That was my friend . . Maybe I had asked about him . . . ?
I really don't remember anything except the way she said it - RFP, and looked at me. It meant something to her.
Whew - but my old draft keeps coming up when I go to post. I erased it again for this -
Disinfected - I meant by 'having no idea' that we had no idea about the inner workings of scn, about how much trouble he probably got into. In the woggy world people get into 'trouble' in a different way. They get 'talked' to, grounded, are taught to take responsibility for their errors/mistakes, and to make amends, apologize, pay for the damage, whatever. They don't disappear off the face of the planet, never to be seen again, especially not for a mistake, or something as simple as being young and irresponsible.
We never knew what happened to him. If we had, we'd have been shocked and horrified - I can only imagine his fate. At the time we had no clue. We were Wog through and through. (We never saw him again.)
I was about to find out, though . . .
Oh yeah, I forgot this part - while on Ethics Course, and talking with Tallen about joining staff, and talking sea org stuff, she mentioned RFP. And LOOKED at me . . . with great intent . . . And I asked "What is that?". And she yammered a bit about a rehabilitation place.
This really freaked me out, it felt so sinister and nasty, though she didn't say it that way. The word 'rehabilitation' just struck me so - so - so - malevalent. It sent chills up my spine, raised the hair at the back of my neck, just adding to the heavy darkness I was sensing about the place by this time. I have no idea how that conversation came up. She WAS checking me out for something, but I had no clue what. Was she warning me? OR testing me? Checking me out?
I have no idea - to this day, why she brought it up, or what it meant.
OH MY GOD, I just figured something out - this just occurred to me - assuming this happened after couch guy got yanked - MAYBE (?) she was hinting to me what happened to him, or checking to see if I understood what had happened to him - - ? MAYBE - BUT- he didn't have anything to do with me. That was my friend . . Maybe I had asked about him . . . ?
I really don't remember anything except the way she said it - RFP, and looked at me. It meant something to her.
Lurker5
Gold Meritorious Patron
Prt 3 How I did NOT Become a Scn'ist
So I am on Ethics course, questioninng lots of things, with no idea I was committing scn 'crimes'. It was just my normal thought processes and intuition following a logical course, finding problems, and ASKING about stuff . . .
My McDreamy was doing exactly what he was supposed to be doing, only I didn't know that. He was quoting LRH word for word, frustrating the hell out of me. I kept trying to 'pull' him out - get his 'hat' off. I can say that now - LOL, though I wasn't thinking that at the time. I didn't even know that is what I was doing. I just wanted HIM to be REAL with me, and not LRH by proxy. I wanted to have a real conversation. With HIM. He was really thinking about what I was asking, contemplating - getting my hopes up - then he'd go to some book and look something up . . . Big let down.
I can remember thinking - This PLACE feels 'suppressive' to me. Does that mean that scn is SP? I asked Joe if an organization could be SP. NO, he said, only a person. Well, then, I thought, it must be LRH who is SP . . .
Somewhere in there, and I don't remember how it came about, I started telling him about my SP, a 'new' word for something, a person, I had not been able to understand. And the whole thing came out, in detail. I was like reliving the entire experience, right there in the course room, with my McDreamy. I am not going into all that here. Suffice to say, he (- my SP - not my McDreamy crs sup - lol -) strangled me. I died, left my body, had my life reel out before my 'eyes' - though I had no body - and really the memories were slipping away as they reeled out. But I had complete awareness, and intelligence. I had no worries, no problems. I was just going . . . It felt good.
Then something stopped me - a face - someone who meant the world to me, and I paused on my warp speed spiraling out. I was worried about leaving this person. Then I saw another person behind the face I loved so much, and I knew my person would be OK. I let it go. Off I went, warp speed spiralling, tumbling, no up, no down, no orientation . . . life reeling out, disappearing - GLAD TO BE GOING.
Then I heard a voice - it was quiet and matter of fact, You have to go back -No no no - I don't want to - You have to go back, you can't leave it like this, No no no I don't want to - You cannot leave it like this, this mess, it will bring great trouble to your family - Go back - fix it.
I felt resignation overcome me. THEN I HEARD A VERY STRANGE SOUND - a whooshing noise, and I 'cocked an ear' - only I didn't have a body so I wasn't really cocking an ear, but I was remembering how it felt - in body - to cock an ear. Then I 'saw' huge ropes, I was entangled in huge ropes. What? Is?this? The noise again - Oh my God, that is my breath - air sucking in. I am my eye. Then I am my fingers entangled in the carpet - the huge ropes were the carpet fibers. Then 'snap' I was back in my body. Reoriented. With no memory. Of anything.
(Wow, I am right there now as I write. Whew. Shaking. Breathe girl.
Whoa. Need a moment.)
So I am on Ethics course, questioninng lots of things, with no idea I was committing scn 'crimes'. It was just my normal thought processes and intuition following a logical course, finding problems, and ASKING about stuff . . .
My McDreamy was doing exactly what he was supposed to be doing, only I didn't know that. He was quoting LRH word for word, frustrating the hell out of me. I kept trying to 'pull' him out - get his 'hat' off. I can say that now - LOL, though I wasn't thinking that at the time. I didn't even know that is what I was doing. I just wanted HIM to be REAL with me, and not LRH by proxy. I wanted to have a real conversation. With HIM. He was really thinking about what I was asking, contemplating - getting my hopes up - then he'd go to some book and look something up . . . Big let down.
I can remember thinking - This PLACE feels 'suppressive' to me. Does that mean that scn is SP? I asked Joe if an organization could be SP. NO, he said, only a person. Well, then, I thought, it must be LRH who is SP . . .
Somewhere in there, and I don't remember how it came about, I started telling him about my SP, a 'new' word for something, a person, I had not been able to understand. And the whole thing came out, in detail. I was like reliving the entire experience, right there in the course room, with my McDreamy. I am not going into all that here. Suffice to say, he (- my SP - not my McDreamy crs sup - lol -) strangled me. I died, left my body, had my life reel out before my 'eyes' - though I had no body - and really the memories were slipping away as they reeled out. But I had complete awareness, and intelligence. I had no worries, no problems. I was just going . . . It felt good.
Then something stopped me - a face - someone who meant the world to me, and I paused on my warp speed spiraling out. I was worried about leaving this person. Then I saw another person behind the face I loved so much, and I knew my person would be OK. I let it go. Off I went, warp speed spiralling, tumbling, no up, no down, no orientation . . . life reeling out, disappearing - GLAD TO BE GOING.
Then I heard a voice - it was quiet and matter of fact, You have to go back -No no no - I don't want to - You have to go back, you can't leave it like this, No no no I don't want to - You cannot leave it like this, this mess, it will bring great trouble to your family - Go back - fix it.
I felt resignation overcome me. THEN I HEARD A VERY STRANGE SOUND - a whooshing noise, and I 'cocked an ear' - only I didn't have a body so I wasn't really cocking an ear, but I was remembering how it felt - in body - to cock an ear. Then I 'saw' huge ropes, I was entangled in huge ropes. What? Is?this? The noise again - Oh my God, that is my breath - air sucking in. I am my eye. Then I am my fingers entangled in the carpet - the huge ropes were the carpet fibers. Then 'snap' I was back in my body. Reoriented. With no memory. Of anything.
(Wow, I am right there now as I write. Whew. Shaking. Breathe girl.
Whoa. Need a moment.)
Last edited:
Disinfected
Patron Meritorious
This is what throws me. You seem to be hinting that we are about to find out what happened to "couch guy" but then you also say you have no idea what happened to him??
I will assume the latter.
Orgs do not have RPF and the "worst" that would happen to him is that he would be booted off staff. Here are some other possiblities as to why you never saw him again:
He joined the Sea Org.
He was booted off or left on his own accord.
He moved to another city.
That is about it.
He definitely was not buried in the basement.
Disinfected
Patron Meritorious
Hope I didn't interrupt your flow, please carry on 
Mest Lover
Not Sea Org Qualified
Thanks to everyone reading, replying, sharing own memories and ideas. I love this place
I have found the process of this board to be better than grabbing any auditor's cans and squeezing them.
Not that I did that much, but this board has fixed a whole lot for me anyway.
Hey Lurker5, great story you have there! l I snipped lots of really interesting stuff, because I just want to reply to the little part I'm quoting. This doesn't mean that the rest of what you wrote isn't worth reading - just trying to save some space here
This reminds me if something I had experienced some decades ago. I just had come out of hospital, where I had been because of my MS. I still couldn't speak properly, couldn't walk, and couldn't use complicated tools (e.g. a fork or a spoon) properly. So I had quite a package to deal with in those days, as you can probably imagine. No job, no abilities, nothing. What an outlook on life.
One of my neighbors, who is - how can I say - a little on the cultish side, gave me a couple of books which he said might help me find a new, better outlook for my life. Well, he was trying to help me.
However, warning sign #1: ALL books had the same author. I began to read the 1st one, and it seemed to be quite consistent and logical. Logical... well he developed a monstrous logical chain and stretched it over the whole book, resulting in a definite conclusion.
The problem: this conclusion didn't sit well with me. Something was definitely wrong, but I couldn't put my finger on it. So I read the whole epos (hundreds of pages) again, only to end up where I've been before. So I started over again, but this time I wanted to do it "properly". I wanted to find out why I wasn't satisfied by the author's conclusions and the path that led to them.
So I started up my Nassi-Shneiderman-software (that's a tool that helps visualize logical flows in software development) and began to read the book again, word for word, documenting each and every one of his logical steps, separating facts from assumptions and all that jazz. It took me several weeks, but in the end I could finally point out all the circular logics, the logical flaws, the false assumptions etc; so finally I could dismiss this book for the BS it promoted. The other books of this author weren't any better, although much faster to read, since I could point out the flaws right away - they were the same one as in the 1st book.
The books still have been helpful to me, because I had found something I could still do, despite my then so useless body: I could write software. So I did just that for a couple of years.
Sidenote: The thought of doing a logical analysis of all those Hubbardian writings scares the hell outta me, so I don't think that thought.
No need to feel paranoid, software "burps" do happen.
Now back to your story...
This reminds me if something I had experienced some decades ago. I just had come out of hospital, where I had been because of my MS. I still couldn't speak properly, couldn't walk, and couldn't use complicated tools (e.g. a fork or a spoon) properly. So I had quite a package to deal with in those days, as you can probably imagine. No job, no abilities, nothing. What an outlook on life.
One of my neighbors, who is - how can I say - a little on the cultish side, gave me a couple of books which he said might help me find a new, better outlook for my life. Well, he was trying to help me.
However, warning sign #1: ALL books had the same author. I began to read the 1st one, and it seemed to be quite consistent and logical. Logical... well he developed a monstrous logical chain and stretched it over the whole book, resulting in a definite conclusion.
The problem: this conclusion didn't sit well with me. Something was definitely wrong, but I couldn't put my finger on it. So I read the whole epos (hundreds of pages) again, only to end up where I've been before. So I started over again, but this time I wanted to do it "properly". I wanted to find out why I wasn't satisfied by the author's conclusions and the path that led to them.
So I started up my Nassi-Shneiderman-software (that's a tool that helps visualize logical flows in software development) and began to read the book again, word for word, documenting each and every one of his logical steps, separating facts from assumptions and all that jazz. It took me several weeks, but in the end I could finally point out all the circular logics, the logical flaws, the false assumptions etc; so finally I could dismiss this book for the BS it promoted. The other books of this author weren't any better, although much faster to read, since I could point out the flaws right away - they were the same one as in the 1st book.
The books still have been helpful to me, because I had found something I could still do, despite my then so useless body: I could write software. So I did just that for a couple of years.
Sidenote: The thought of doing a logical analysis of all those Hubbardian writings scares the hell outta me, so I don't think that thought.
<snip>
I am stopping here, just to post it, because it is long, but will start in again on next part - that is, if I am not kicked out again, losing all this - God forbid.
No need to feel paranoid, software "burps" do happen.
Now back to your story...
Mest Lover
Not Sea Org Qualified
The RPF (rehabilitation project force) is for Sea Org Members to help them help themselves get back in good standing with the Sea Org. Its up to them to do the work necessary to rejoin the group. treated like crap by others, ignored and a whole hell of MEST crap cleaning work to fix the stuff that regular SO would'nt touch. I doubt that couch guy was SO and doubt he went to the RPF.
Lurker5
Gold Meritorious Patron
Prt 4 How I did NOT Become a Scn'ist
My whole body is still quivering. Yikes.
So I realize I am on the floor, my face sideways, and I am staring at my fingers clutching carpet. I am a blank slate/nothing. I push myself up, and turn my head - and I see my SP - and it all comes slamming right back to me - all of it. WHACK - Oh NO - I wanted to leap out and get away.
But I was there to stay, and I had a moment of sadness. I also realized he was going to kill me. I had to get away - oh my, how was I going to do that ? - LIE. Oh but I am not a good liar - Well, you better get good at it or you will die.
My thoughts were going a million miles an hour . . . planning my escape . . .
And there is a long story on this too (that McDreamy heard - my god how long were we there?). I don't need to tell it here. It was a gargantuan struggle getting away - alive - that night. But I did - by telling lies like you wouldn't believe. I'd never been a liar, sure I'd told lies, here and there, nothing big - but this was ALL LIES - Doing it on the cuff, on the fly, learning very fast from my errrors, my mistakes, plenty of which I made, when he'd catch me out and challenge me, like he was reading my mind. Oh- My- God, he is losing it, he is going to kill you, get him back under control.
I was learning to play a very wicked game - to f'g WIN. I was not going to lose. The bond was broken, I owed him nothing, I could do ANYTHING to get away. I lied like my life depended on it. Reassuring him . . .
I had nine lives that night, and he just kept on coming. I learned - right off the bat, still lyng on that floor, that he reacted to my behavior, so I manipulated him with my behavior. Then I'd forget myself, when I thought I was safe, and he'd see my strength and power returning, a THREAT to him, and he'd attack again. Blah blah. He'd figure out what I was planning and shift gears on me, and I'd have to come up with plan b, then c, then d, then e, over an over, on the fly, the whole time, 'handling' him, so he wouldn't lose it and finish the job.
But I did escape. And there is lots to it after that, but to no one's interest here. I don't think I told McDreamy sup anymore either, just up to the game playing - finally getting away part.
And zap, I am back in my chair, looking at McDreamy sup Joe, and his mouth is hanging open. He is just stunned. He had listened to the entire thing, never interrupted, or said a word. God knows how long we were there. I have no idea. I'd never told it before, nor since, really, in that detail.
Then he said something like - Well no wonder you left your body - or were thrown out of your body - or some such unfathomable thing like that.
Remember - I didn't know anything about the scn belief in exterorization - or whatever that word is - LOL. I didn't know what he was talking about. But course time was over - we said good-bye and I left.
I was so excited to come back too - Wow, was this scn cool ! I had told that story out of nowhere it seemed, and it really relieved me of something that had been weighing me down. Wow, I felt so light and happy. Was I ever jazzed to be goming back to class - forget Ethics course, LOL. I was so excited to see Joe again. We had become close, bonded as friends. Scn was really hot stuff . . .
And I got to my classroom - and Joe is GONE. There instead was the Reg guy, or maybe he was the manager of the place -the boss dude. Whatever. I did not like him. He was one cold fish. Not personable at all. Let me call him Dick. Dick Head.
I was VERY surprised, and not very happy, that Joe was gone. "Where is Joe?" I asked. Dick Head gives me a very pointed look and says Joe has been pulled from course, or is off course, or something like that. He has some things he needs to do.
Ohh. Somehow I knew this was bad, and that I was responsible, that Joe was in trouble for something I did. But I didn't know what I had done. I felt terrible. And I didn't even know yet what trouble meant in scn . . .
Dick Head shoveled the rest of that Ethics course, from that 'tripping-up paragraph' - on to the end - right down my throat - in that one sitting - basically standing at my shoulder, and 'oppressing' me to finish it - LOL. Believe me, I couldn't wait to get it done and get the hell out of there. I was pissed - that Joe would be in trouble for something I did - That Dick Head was now my teacher. Ick.
But no, I wasn't done yet - I think I had to write up some shit - some win or something about the course. Easy BS. I mean, I had learned to LIE - in another life - hadn't I ? And hadn't I learned how to make my face not show what was going on inside my head - because my life had depended on that too ?
The entire time I was secretly seething. This is not what I paid for . . .
But I still was not done. Dick Head asked me to do bullbaiting on a new PC there in the course room. So, being a nice person, I stuffed my need to get the hell out of there, and I helped another person on her Comm Course.
I really got into it, and had serious fun with it. Dick Head's mouth dropped open, in surprise. I could tell he was surprised - that he hadn't thought I had it in me. Me, the shy quiet nice girl . . .
I didn't know if the look he gave me was good or bad - it was just another look of intent, similar to the one from Tallen Stately, the E/O - only different. I didn't know what it meant. But I was being noticed. Was that a good thing, or a bad thing? I was not sure. I had this odd notion that Dick Head LIKED me being a bully - even though that had just been in play. And that sort of puzzled me - like maybe a person is supposed to be mean? For real? That "that" was a good sign - to a scn'ist ???
Just recently, while thinking about it, calling up memories, I realized that what I had done with that drill was use the Tone Scale, went low and started messing with the PC's head. She was laughing and having good fun too. I would never intentionally for real be mean to a person.
And it has occurred to me in the years hence, that YES, it is considered a good thing for a scn'ist to be mean and nasty - for real, that is the road to freedom, the way up the bridge, to upper management. LOL.
So I thought I was done. But NOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Next Dick Head 'routes' me upstairs, against my will, WTF? - all that hidden, of course, in nice girl compliance. I'd never been upstairs before. His hand was on my shoulder. I was beginning to feel afraid - very afraid, having that gut-feeling/reaction that something is very not Ok here, something is very wrong - like with my SP, that feeling that I had discounted over and over and over again, with him, because it wasn't nice to have bad thoughts about people you care for.
That discounting of my gut reaction/feeling intuition had almost cost me my life - it certainly taught me a huge lesson - about myself.
And I did not like Dick Head . . .
But there he was - Dick Head - at my elbow taking me up the stairs, and I was having bad thoughts - bizarre thoughts - like - Am I going to be allowed to get out of here?
But then I laughed at myself, Hey girl, this is America, the US of A - no gulags here.
He puts me in a room with an Auditor - and I was pissed. What? Nobody told me about this ! What the hell is going on? Am I being TESTED? On Ethics? I didn't know there were tests ! LOL - really I was pisssed because no one told me I was going to be tested on the Ethics Course. I'd never been tested before - just wrote up my wins or glory or whatever that stuff was called.
This is all in my head, my protest was all in my head. A smile - a dumb stupid smile - was pasted on my face, hiding my anger and fear. I was really really really uncomfortable with what was going on.
I don't remember a thing about it, being on the cans, what was asked, what I said. I can guess that she asked me about the course, and I must have done OK, as it was over rather quickly. I think Dick Head gave a certificate or something, then - or maybe later. Was I done yet?
No. First, after that - another traumatic moment. No, he wasn't letting me get out just yet.
Out the door, down the stairs, his hand on my shoulder, and down more stairs. Now, he said to me, I need you to help Joe - get back on course - or something like that. I think I was in stun mode.
Wow - sorry - very long - and I gotta go right now, be back soon to finish - I swear - LOL.
My whole body is still quivering. Yikes.
So I realize I am on the floor, my face sideways, and I am staring at my fingers clutching carpet. I am a blank slate/nothing. I push myself up, and turn my head - and I see my SP - and it all comes slamming right back to me - all of it. WHACK - Oh NO - I wanted to leap out and get away.
But I was there to stay, and I had a moment of sadness. I also realized he was going to kill me. I had to get away - oh my, how was I going to do that ? - LIE. Oh but I am not a good liar - Well, you better get good at it or you will die.
My thoughts were going a million miles an hour . . . planning my escape . . .
And there is a long story on this too (that McDreamy heard - my god how long were we there?). I don't need to tell it here. It was a gargantuan struggle getting away - alive - that night. But I did - by telling lies like you wouldn't believe. I'd never been a liar, sure I'd told lies, here and there, nothing big - but this was ALL LIES - Doing it on the cuff, on the fly, learning very fast from my errrors, my mistakes, plenty of which I made, when he'd catch me out and challenge me, like he was reading my mind. Oh- My- God, he is losing it, he is going to kill you, get him back under control.
I was learning to play a very wicked game - to f'g WIN. I was not going to lose. The bond was broken, I owed him nothing, I could do ANYTHING to get away. I lied like my life depended on it. Reassuring him . . .
I had nine lives that night, and he just kept on coming. I learned - right off the bat, still lyng on that floor, that he reacted to my behavior, so I manipulated him with my behavior. Then I'd forget myself, when I thought I was safe, and he'd see my strength and power returning, a THREAT to him, and he'd attack again. Blah blah. He'd figure out what I was planning and shift gears on me, and I'd have to come up with plan b, then c, then d, then e, over an over, on the fly, the whole time, 'handling' him, so he wouldn't lose it and finish the job.
But I did escape. And there is lots to it after that, but to no one's interest here. I don't think I told McDreamy sup anymore either, just up to the game playing - finally getting away part.
And zap, I am back in my chair, looking at McDreamy sup Joe, and his mouth is hanging open. He is just stunned. He had listened to the entire thing, never interrupted, or said a word. God knows how long we were there. I have no idea. I'd never told it before, nor since, really, in that detail.
Then he said something like - Well no wonder you left your body - or were thrown out of your body - or some such unfathomable thing like that.
Remember - I didn't know anything about the scn belief in exterorization - or whatever that word is - LOL. I didn't know what he was talking about. But course time was over - we said good-bye and I left.
I was so excited to come back too - Wow, was this scn cool ! I had told that story out of nowhere it seemed, and it really relieved me of something that had been weighing me down. Wow, I felt so light and happy. Was I ever jazzed to be goming back to class - forget Ethics course, LOL. I was so excited to see Joe again. We had become close, bonded as friends. Scn was really hot stuff . . .
And I got to my classroom - and Joe is GONE. There instead was the Reg guy, or maybe he was the manager of the place -the boss dude. Whatever. I did not like him. He was one cold fish. Not personable at all. Let me call him Dick. Dick Head.
I was VERY surprised, and not very happy, that Joe was gone. "Where is Joe?" I asked. Dick Head gives me a very pointed look and says Joe has been pulled from course, or is off course, or something like that. He has some things he needs to do.
Ohh. Somehow I knew this was bad, and that I was responsible, that Joe was in trouble for something I did. But I didn't know what I had done. I felt terrible. And I didn't even know yet what trouble meant in scn . . .
Dick Head shoveled the rest of that Ethics course, from that 'tripping-up paragraph' - on to the end - right down my throat - in that one sitting - basically standing at my shoulder, and 'oppressing' me to finish it - LOL. Believe me, I couldn't wait to get it done and get the hell out of there. I was pissed - that Joe would be in trouble for something I did - That Dick Head was now my teacher. Ick.
But no, I wasn't done yet - I think I had to write up some shit - some win or something about the course. Easy BS. I mean, I had learned to LIE - in another life - hadn't I ? And hadn't I learned how to make my face not show what was going on inside my head - because my life had depended on that too ?
The entire time I was secretly seething. This is not what I paid for . . .
But I still was not done. Dick Head asked me to do bullbaiting on a new PC there in the course room. So, being a nice person, I stuffed my need to get the hell out of there, and I helped another person on her Comm Course.
I really got into it, and had serious fun with it. Dick Head's mouth dropped open, in surprise. I could tell he was surprised - that he hadn't thought I had it in me. Me, the shy quiet nice girl . . .
I didn't know if the look he gave me was good or bad - it was just another look of intent, similar to the one from Tallen Stately, the E/O - only different. I didn't know what it meant. But I was being noticed. Was that a good thing, or a bad thing? I was not sure. I had this odd notion that Dick Head LIKED me being a bully - even though that had just been in play. And that sort of puzzled me - like maybe a person is supposed to be mean? For real? That "that" was a good sign - to a scn'ist ???
Just recently, while thinking about it, calling up memories, I realized that what I had done with that drill was use the Tone Scale, went low and started messing with the PC's head. She was laughing and having good fun too. I would never intentionally for real be mean to a person.
And it has occurred to me in the years hence, that YES, it is considered a good thing for a scn'ist to be mean and nasty - for real, that is the road to freedom, the way up the bridge, to upper management. LOL.
So I thought I was done. But NOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Next Dick Head 'routes' me upstairs, against my will, WTF? - all that hidden, of course, in nice girl compliance. I'd never been upstairs before. His hand was on my shoulder. I was beginning to feel afraid - very afraid, having that gut-feeling/reaction that something is very not Ok here, something is very wrong - like with my SP, that feeling that I had discounted over and over and over again, with him, because it wasn't nice to have bad thoughts about people you care for.
That discounting of my gut reaction/feeling intuition had almost cost me my life - it certainly taught me a huge lesson - about myself.
And I did not like Dick Head . . .
But there he was - Dick Head - at my elbow taking me up the stairs, and I was having bad thoughts - bizarre thoughts - like - Am I going to be allowed to get out of here?
But then I laughed at myself, Hey girl, this is America, the US of A - no gulags here.
He puts me in a room with an Auditor - and I was pissed. What? Nobody told me about this ! What the hell is going on? Am I being TESTED? On Ethics? I didn't know there were tests ! LOL - really I was pisssed because no one told me I was going to be tested on the Ethics Course. I'd never been tested before - just wrote up my wins or glory or whatever that stuff was called.
This is all in my head, my protest was all in my head. A smile - a dumb stupid smile - was pasted on my face, hiding my anger and fear. I was really really really uncomfortable with what was going on.
I don't remember a thing about it, being on the cans, what was asked, what I said. I can guess that she asked me about the course, and I must have done OK, as it was over rather quickly. I think Dick Head gave a certificate or something, then - or maybe later. Was I done yet?
No. First, after that - another traumatic moment. No, he wasn't letting me get out just yet.
Out the door, down the stairs, his hand on my shoulder, and down more stairs. Now, he said to me, I need you to help Joe - get back on course - or something like that. I think I was in stun mode.
Wow - sorry - very long - and I gotta go right now, be back soon to finish - I swear - LOL.
Last edited:
Mest Lover
Not Sea Org Qualified
starting to sound like you should submit this to Penthouse Forum.