The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[lkwdblds]

Nice marriage write up.

what we looked for in initially creating our marriage:


we had both read Cheaper By the Dozen independently of each other.

T had swum for Dick Smith in Phoenix, had national records in the breast stroke, as a kid had jumped horses over cactus for fun, was a class Vlll.

I rock climb, scuba, ski, surf.

we both liked rock and roll, Broadway style musical theater, Disneyland, and highly cultured, independent, resourceful, responsible, healthy, active, skilled children.

Our kids skied from age 2. One of our boys went up a 2500 foot climb in Yosemite with me when he was 12. Our youngest daughter won the Tevis, the toughest endurance horse race in the world, in the junior category, when she was 16. One son, at age 14 scheduled and traveled about 30,000 miles on Amtrak on a $600 excursion ticket (45 days no commuting).

When the kids were growing, they saw plays and musicals in London, visited Boston, Philly, Chi Town, Washington, D.C, Hawaii, China, etc.

The kids learned how to roof, wallpaper, paint, drive, barbeque, dance ballet, do gymnastics, sing, act on stage and screen, pick apricots, play tennis, and program computers. We expected production - quality production. TV watching wasn't encouraged. Learning and applying skills was. Flipping hamburgers wasn't our idea of a life after school.

This is a very nice write up of secrets for a successful marriage and for how to raise exemplary children. There is a need for something like this, especially among Sientologists, those in the field and even more so those who are active in the Church. It is an overall indicator of a successful life. Those who achieve solid. lasting marriages are in the minority and raising happy and talented, well adjusted children is not all that common either. It is nice when someone who has achieved these things shares some of his or her secrets with us.
Lakey

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Hey Carmelo - Can I book you as a father for next lifetime? It won't be for a while yet though.

I'm not planning on dying, myself, for another 60 years.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

When they announced my stat, IN CHARACTERISTIC LAKEY BLABBERMOUTH FASHION (WHICH IS STILL GETTING ME INTO LOTS OF TROUBLE), I blabbed out that I do not have much control over my stat and it was high only because the G.O. was high. I then said that it could have been much higher but I expected the stat to drop next week and so decided not to put several thousand for of paid bills into the mail and instead said I was going to mail them the next morning and count them on next's weeks stats. People were laughing and giggling and didn't know what to make of my statement but Heber Jentzsch who was then Assistant Guardian of CCLA got up and told me I good not do that and said it was a Crime and I could be Comm Eved for that but since my stats were up and that I obviously had not learned this policy, he would let it slide this one time.

That naive, tactless blurting out of the naked truth has been a defining character trait of mine my whole life. I have had a few wins from it and many losses, I finally now realize that one is not automatically doing the right thing when he or she tells the truth all the time. I am now fighting this tendency and it not easy! I just want to blurt out truths, often at inappropriate times or to inappropriate people and it is hard for me to stop from doing that but I am improving.

I am not auditing you. I am giving you information that you could take to an auditor.

What you are describing is a valance or identity at work.

On more than one occasion, in my short young life, I've helped others to own and then chose to disarm identities that they had created.

One fellow in Florida, an executive of a pretty large company was drunk 5 days out of 7 when I started auditing him. We'd talk on the phone. He'd be drunk and slurring words. When we finished 6 weeks later, he could have one glass of wine on Friday with work friends and associates, and no more.

Most of what I did was get him to describe the identity that drank. Not unlike a mass or machine. What color is it? What are its dimensions? What frozen emotions are contained inside it? - ran From where could a spiritual being experience / create (the frozen emotion)? to cog GIs When was the identity created. What happened prior to the creation? Earlier Similar?

Basically the identity we handled was a solution to a problem.

We ran a lot of What problem was caused by the identity? What solutions did you have for the problem? What problems did that / those solutions cause? to EP

Eventually we got to when he was 12 and saw James Bond in the theater. JB was swave (his word for suave). JB drank. He would drink too, and be swave. That was it. He didn't drink ever again.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

This is a very nice write up of secrets for a successful marriage and for how to raise exemplary children. There is a need for something like this, expecially among Sientologists, those in the field and even more so those who are active in the Church. It is an overall indicator of a successful life. Those who achieve sold. lasting marriages are in the minority and raising happy and talented, well adjusted children is not all that common either. It is nice when someone who has achieved these things shares some of his or her secrets with us.
Lakey

My current avatar is my blond daughter, age 3, in her Izod preppy red and white stripe polo shirt, Levis, and bare feet on the Capitol Steps (not the political satire musical group) in D.C. It's one of my favorite pics.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

I taught David Nelson's children in a private school about a million years ago..

tell more

Terril, honey, I had no idea you were a Yank! Feel free to come back and see us, anytime! I'll buy you a hot dog and a beer, we do have some nice microbrewerys.

BB has shared beer with me. He is a charming companion to spend time yakking with

, it has solidified into a sinus infection, which is currently making me miserable, so I'm going to call on my Pals here who have a ton of collective wisdom and experience. I'd rather not go the anti-biotics route, any other helpful suggestions to speed healing and recovery?

Yes, I'm willing to rub and yawn some more (definately will help clear my ears

get a small balloon and a solid piece of penne pasta or a long cylindrical bead from a bead store. Insert one end of the bead or pasta into the balloon. insert the other end into one of your nostrils. hold your other nostril closed. blow through the bead and inflate the balloon.

this is a technique we learned over forty years ago from our pediatrician.

it's gross. stuff comes out through your nose. but it is better than taking drugs.

what I do is go belly boarding or body surfing. the salt water, when it crashes over me rams through my nose on wipe outs, cleans the sinuses thoroughly.

 

[lkwdblds]

Very Interesting concept!

I am not auditing you. I am giving you information that you could take to an auditor.

What you are describing is a valance or identity at work.

On more than one occasion, in my short young life, I've helped others to own and then chose to disarm identities that they had created.

One fellow in Florida, an executive of a pretty large company was drunk 5 days out of 7 when I started auditing him. We'd talk on the phone. He'd be drunk and slurring words. When we finished 6 weeks later, he could have one glass of wine on Friday with work friends and associates, and no more.

Most of what I did was get him to describe the identity that drank. Not unlike a mass or machine. What color is it? What are its dimensions? What frozen emotions are contained inside it? - ran From where could a spiritual being experience / create (the frozen emotion)? to cog GIs When was the identity created. What happened prior to the creation? Earlier Similar?

Basically the identity we handled was a solution to a problem.

We ran a lot of What problem was caused by the identity? What solutions did you have for the problem? What problems did that / those solutions cause? to EP

Eventually we got to when he was 12 and saw James Bond in the theater. JB was swave (his word for suave). JB drank. He would drink too, and be swave. That was it. He didn't drink ever again.

Carmelo, your statement is a very interesting concept. I had never thought of it that waY before. It seemed to me that telling the truth would be the NATURAL INCLINATION for a thetan very early on the time track. Developing the judgement for when to to tell the truth (everyone's natural inclination) or when it is not wise to do so is a skill to be learned. Also, when telling the truth is not proper, then what does one do? One can remain silent, divert the conversation on to something else, tell a fib or white lie or one can tell a blatant and major lie..

STREET SMARTS Besides the analytic intelligence required to solve puzzels, do math, effectively use words, etc. there is a practical intelligence which I like to call "Street Smarts. Most people know what is meant by this term. It is practical intelligence used to deal with people and interact with them so as to get farther in life and have more and better friends and more material success. Speaking from experience, the never telling a lie philosophy shows a terrible, total and overwhelming lack of street smarts.

BENEFITS OF NOT TELLING LIES
1. Your memory is going to be good. You don't have to think about the lies you have told and always try to keep your stories consistent.
2.. You probably will do well in auditing or processing or any therapy, because everything is right near the surface. There are not a lot of withholds or secrets deeply imbedded in your mind.
3. You won't have many friends but the few friends you have will be very loyal and very close.
4. Often people sense your honesty and in a sales or job situation may go with you because of perceived honesty.
Thats about it for the benefits.

THE DOWNSIDE OF NO STREET SMARTS
On the other side of the coin, people are going to sense your openness and realize that you are willing to tell them all your secrets. They will USE that information to their advantage. About 95% of them will start using the information and contacts which you have carelessly blabbed to them and start committing overt acts against you. After a while, you catch them in the act and there is a big fight, a blow up, and then you throw them out of your life, but only after they have inflicted severe damage on you. The perpetrators whom you allowed to wreck your life ARE NEVER CONTRITE OR WILLING TO MAKE UP THE DAMAGES, not a one of them, NEVER with no exceptions. They defend to the death the fact that they did nothing wrong. After they leave you they are worse off and they try their scam somewhere else and fail there as well. They almost always end up losers. You, with fewer overt acts and keener analytical intelligence than they (in non street smart areas) are able to regroup, cover most of the damages they caused, and then move on doing a little bit better for a while before finding someone new to trust and beginning a repeat cycle.

SOON TO BE EX WIFE'S TAKE ON THIS
Our friendly divorce is in its final stages, we still live together on a best friend basis, sort of a brother - sister type of love. She was in the kitchen and I asked her take on this topic. She is very street smart and is a successful attorney in immigration law. First of all, she insisted that I often lied to her through the years. I disagreed and say I only lied once in the entire 28 years of marriage. She said that my lack of street smarts in her eyes was just a lack of learning various people skills and "how to play the game".

SUMMARY: Is it a valence or identity which needs to be run out as you suggest or rather the naiveness of not developing Street Smarts and learning to play the game? There is no question that I can change it without auditing but it is hard for me. Everytime I muzzle up and refrain from blurting out the truth, it takes an effort and some butterflies and somatics turn on in my stomach. This confirms there is some case phenomena their. I could try an Idenics situation with Mike Goldstein to blow it or just do some two way comm with one of my friends who is an auditor or do some of those "from where could a spiritual being communicate to ,,,? processes solo style on myself or perhaps blow it by inspection NOTs style.

Thanks for your incites on this area Carmelo. I wish I would have addressed this topic much earlier, say 20 years ago but its never too late. I think it is a valid topic to discus and have never seen ahy discussion of it anywhere, in Scn or elsewhere. It is perfect for this thread. I'm sure other people have encountered this concept besides just me and with your insights and take on what this is plus my recounting of the type of life one leads when one lives this way we have done what I want most to do on this thread and that is present new, useful and interesting data that is not found anywhere else. And that is one truth which I do want to tell - for sure!!
Lakey

 

[hbeer]

Hey Carmelo - Can I book you as a father for next lifetime? It won't be for a while yet though.

Me too, please! My parents failed badly. Carmelo was/is the best role model for parenting I have.



.

 

[lkwdblds]

How could your parents have failed so badly...?

Me too, please! My parents failed badly. Carmelo was/is the best role model for parenting I have.



.

My God, how could your parents have failed so badly? Look at you, you are a very accomplished person with great insights and skills. I assume they had something to do with your opera training as well or did you do this after you left them? If they had really failed, it seems to me you would not be the exemplary person whom you are today. Do they get any credit at all or did you achieve your knowledge and status entirely on your own or worse yet in spite of them?

As far as Leon, you and others who want Carmelo as your next Dad. You are making a wise decision but according to him, you will have to wait 60 years before he plans on dying and 25 or so more years before he will be a new parent again. Instead of waiting 85 years to take action, I came up with an interim solution. Let's all send him a Fathers' Day Card this coming Fathers' Day. Such a card will serve as both as an acknowledgement for the great Father he has been to his current lucky off spring, and a postulate that you both wish to be among his next offspring. I will be happy to sign as well. I am sure Sweetness and Light will also want to participate in such a project once she recovers from her sever sinus attack.
Lakey

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Carmelo, your statement is a very interesting concept. I had never thought of it that waY before. It seemed to me that telling the truth would be the NATURAL INCLINATION for a thetan very early on the time track. Developing the judgement for when to to tell the truth (everyone's natural inclination) or when it is not wise to do so is a skill to be learned. Also, when telling the truth is not proper, then what does one do? One can remain silent, divert the conversation on to something else, tell a fib or white lie or one can tell a blatant and major lie..

There are people , who prey , as Standard Operating Procedure, on weak(er) beings. They see a weakness, they dive right in. If you've never read "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu, now might be a good time. If the USA, Ronald Reagan, or the current president was ALWAYS open and honest, We, US citizens would be in for amazing attacks. Establishing firewalls on information is a high priority duty. This is true personally too.

STREET SMARTS Speaking from experience, the never telling a lie philosophy shows a terrible, total and overwhelming lack of street smarts.

that is a major understatement

BENEFITS OF NOT TELLING LIES

3. You won't have many friends but the few friends you have will be very loyal and very close.
4. Often people sense your honesty and in a sales or job situation may go with you because of perceived honesty.
Thats about it for the benefits.

As Dr. Phil would say, "How's that loyalty with the ex wife working out?"

My take is that it is near impossible to have a real friendship with someone that I can't trust to remain silent when need be. In business, government, and personal areas there are always thins to be quiet about.

If I tell you something, Lakey, I can be 90% certain that you will tell the first person that you meet what I had said. That is not good security. You won't get any PCs on that Operating Basis. No girl friends either.

If a PC tells me something, it is private, not for anybody.

If a business colleague tells me something, it is private, unless marked as public.

Because of your identity, you can't even perceive the effects of your communications.

THE DOWNSIDE OF NO STREET SMARTS
On the other side of the coin, people are going to sense your openness and realize that you are willing to tell them all your secrets. They will USE that information to their advantage. About 95% of them will start using the information and contacts which you have carelessly blabbed to them and start committing overt acts against you. After a while, you catch them in the act and there is a big fight, a blow up, and then you throw them out of your life, but not after they have inflicted severe damage on you. The perpetrators who you allowed to wreck your life ARE NEVER CONTRITE OR WILLING TO MAKE UP THE DAMAGES, not a one of them, NEVER with no exceptions. They defend to the death the fact that they did nothing wrong. After they leave you they are worse off and they try their scam somewhere else and fail there as well. They almost always end up losers. You, with fewer overt acts and keener analytical intelligence then they (in non street smart areas) are able to regroup, cover most of the damages they caused, and then move on doing a little bit better for a while before finding someone new to trust and beginning a repeat cycle.

I'd say your overts of omission are comparable to theirs of commission. When you give away the store, you are not a hero to your family.

SOON TO BE EX WIFE'S TAKE ON THIS
Our friendly divorce is in its final stages, we still live together on a best friend basis, sort of a brother - sister type of love. She was in the kitchen and I asked her take on this topic. She is very street smart and is a successful attorney in immigration law. First of all, she insisted that I often lied to her through the years. I disagreed and say I only lied once in the entire 28 years of marriage. She said that my lack of street smarts in her eyes was just a lack of learning various people skills and "how to play the game".

so for all that truthfulness on your part, she says that you often lied. Someone isn't be very straight with themselves.

SUMMARY: Is it a valence or identity which needs to be run out as you suggest or rather the naiveness of not developing Street Smarts and learning to play the game? There is no question that I can change it without auditing but it is hard for me. Everytime I muzzle up and refrain from blurting out the truth, it takes an effort and some butterflies and somatics turn on in my stomach. This confirms there is some case phenomena their. I could try an Idenics situation with Mike Goldstein to blow it or just do some two way comm with one of my friends who is an auditor or do some of those "from where could a spiritual being communicate to ,,,? processes solo style on myself or perhaps blow it by inspection NOTs style.

When a person / PC has a blind spot, solo auditing doesn't work on it. It takes a person, who reads the PC, can pick up thoughts, ridges, glitches and pull the thread that appears. That is what a good auditor does. If your friends don't know how to audit, they aren't the right people to take you on a trip down your time track.

Thank you for being a guinea pig, and allowing your dirty laundry to be on display. God knows, I would not put my dirty laundry on the line. No way, Jose.

 

[Leon]

Carmelo, your statement is a very interesting concept. I had never thought of it that waY before. It seemed to me that telling the truth would be the NATURAL INCLINATION for a thetan very early on the time track. Developing the judgement for when to to tell the truth (everyone's natural inclination) or when it is not wise to do so is a skill to be learned. Also, when telling the truth is not proper, then what does one do? One can remain silent, divert the conversation on to something else, tell a fib or white lie or one can tell a blatant and major lie..

Lakey

Recognise too that an important part of the EP of Expanded Grade Two is attaining the ability to withhold. Not the compulsive withholding that a guy below that does, but a free ability to tell or not tell, participate or not participate, as the individual freely decides.

 

[JackStraw]

Recognise too that an important part of the EP of Expanded Grade Two is attaining the ability to withhold. Not the compulsive withholding that a guy below that does, but a free ability to tell or not tell, participate or not participate, as the individual freely decides.

If I recall correctly, one of the definitions of Responsibility is "admit cause, able to withhold". One of the defs. I rather like.

Jack

 

[lkwdblds]

Excellent Point!

Recognise too that an important part of the EP of Expanded Grade Two is attaining the ability to withhold. Not the compulsive withholding that a guy below that does, but a free ability to tell or not tell, participate or not participate, as the individual freely decides.

Leon, this is really a good tech point and I appreciate your calling it to my attention. Of course, I have seen the data before when I was in C of S but it dropped away and I was not applying it so it is good that you brought it to my attention.

I wanted to make one distinction though. I can withhold information instead of blurting it out much easier than I can fabricate or make up lies as a means of withholding. When I am forced to lie, I am terrible at it. I have all sorts of physcial reactions going on inside, the inflection in my voice changes to an artifcial timbre, I am stiff, stilted, stiffled and unnatural. I just can not do it! Anybody with any perception at all can see that I am lying. If it comes down to having to not tell the truth, I would opt for remaining silent. I do not particularly want to learn to become an effective and skilled liar. I just don't want to do it. I do best by saying something that has some truth in it. For instance, if I was supposed to mail a letter before noon and I forget and mail 2 hours later and the person calls and asks if I remembered to mail it before noon, I will answer that I nearly forgot but fortunately it got mailed and then I try to change the subject. If they really pin me down, I can not say that I mailed it by noon if I did not. Sometimes I throw in some smoke and mirrors and say, the line at the post office was really long but it went out and will be in Chicago tomorrow or something like that.
Lakey

 

[Enthetan]

Back in the late 70's there was a Reg in our Org who implemented a "bright idea" based on Battle Planning. He met with each public who was on course or getting auditing (there were a lot of active public then), mapped out their next bridge actions and then went over how much and when each could make payments toward those actions while remaining solvent at the same time. With agreed upon payment schedules the Reg would simply collect payments. The GI went up and became stable and the Org staff could rely on a certain amount of pay. With the occasional larger reg cycles added in, most staff even had a few extra bucks. Then someone "uplines" got wind of this. The Reg (and his senior) was busted off post and eventually left staff. "Standard" Big League Sales went back in and the GI fell out the bottom. The Org never recovered...

Back in the 80's I had a good relationship with the Flag Service Consultant at my org. Every payday I would show up, give her a check for the amount I had budgeted, we chatted about this and that, and I'd say goodbye. She didn't try to reg me, because she knew I wasn't going to go for hard sell.

 

[Enthetan]

Here's another anectdote about the same topic, one that I have not told before. A LAKEY EXCLUSIVE. When I was Director of Disbursements at CCLA, one week in 1973 we had our highest Gross Income ever by far. My stat was "Bills Paid". It was a poorly chosen stat because no one in Treasury division had any control whatever over that stat. The stat was determined by the Financial Planning Committee based on the week's income, the higher the ncome, the more bills were approved to pay. The FBO and the Guardian for Finance had some control as well as they could over rule the FP committee. Dir of Disbursement had not even the slightest control over what his main stat would be. All he did was write the checks and take them for signature.

In a normal week, we would write about $5,000 worth of checks and on this week, I was writing the FP and it got to be over double that amount and I realized that next week was going to be a low week and there would be no bills to pay. I think I wrote up the rest of the checks, maybe $3,000 more but decided not to mail them out until the following morning so that the following week would not be a total collapse. At the big staff meeting at night where all the stats were presented, nearly everybody's stats were out the roof including mine. When they announced my stat, IN CHARACTERISTIC LAKEY BLABBERMOUTH FASHION (WHICH IS STILL GETTING ME INTO LOTS OF TROUBLE), I blabbed out that I do not have much control over my stat and it was high only because the G.O. was high. I then said that it could have been much higher but I expected the stat to drop next week and so decided not to put several thousand for of paid bills into the mail and instead said I was going to mail them the next morning and count them on next's weeks stats. People were laughing and giggling and didn't know what to make of my statement but Heber Jentzsch who was then Assistant Guardian of CCLA got up and told me I good not do that and said it was a Crime and I could be Comm Eved for that but since my stats were up and that I obviously had not learned this policy, he would let it slide this one time.

That naive, tactless blurting out of the naked truth has been a defining character trait of mine my whole life. I have had a few wins from it and many losses, I finally now realize that one is not automatically doing the right thing when he or she tells the truth all the time. I am now fighting this tendency and it not easy! I just want to blurt out truths, often at inappropriate times or to inappropriate people and it is hard for me to stop from doing that but I am improving.

THE WORST TECH IN SCIENTOLOGY GREEN ON WHITE MANAGEMENT TECH -
To me, the mad unreasoning drive for higher and higher stats this week by 2:00 PM using and all means available is the most important non workable piece of tech in all of Scientology admin. I am confident to say unequivocally with no qualifications that LRH was wrong in developing this tech and insisting on its implementation, at least if the stated goals of Scientology as presented to the public are what he had in mind for Scientology. Hubbard was no fool and the fact that he pushed this crazy policy to the hilt shows me that his true goals for Scientology were not those stated for public consumption.

Had this atrocious policy not been develped and pushed to the maximum, Scientology today, would probably have its 8 or 10 million adherents, be a more mainstream religion and have a much larger place in society.
Lakey

At one point in the SO, I decided to be smart about my stat. When I was sure I was going to make my "Normal" for the week (and thus get my liberty day), I switched from doing actions to get products for this week and instead worked on lining up products for the following week. My personal game became to see how early in the week I could get to this switchover point.

At that stage, I no longer cared about making high stats, I just wanted my libs, and making Affluence would just mean that making Normal the following week would be harder.

 

[Enthetan]

My take is that it is near impossible to have a real friendship with someone that I can't trust to remain silent when need be. In business, government, and personal areas there are always thins to be quiet about.

If I tell you something, Lakey, I can be 90% certain that you will tell the first person that you meet what I had said. That is not good security. You won't get any PCs on that Operating Basis. No girl friends either.

If a PC tells me something, it is private, not for anybody.

If a business colleague tells me something, it is private, unless marked as public.

You raise an excellent point. There's a difference between "telling the truth" and being indiscreet. Discretion, as in the ability to receive a communication and have it remain private between you and the source, is necessary to the maintenance of relationships. It's a skill that I'm still striving for.

 

[Enthetan]

Leon, this is really a good tech point and I appreciate your calling it to my attention. Of course, I have seen the data before when I was in C of S but it dropped away and I was not applying it so it is good that you brought it to my attention.

I wanted to make one distinction though. I can withhold information instead of blurting it out much easier than I can fabricating or making up lies as a means of withholding. When I am forced to lie, I am terrible at it. I have all sorts of physcial reactions going on inside, the inflection in my voice changes to an artifcial timbre, I am stiff, stilted, stiffled and unnatural. I just can not do it! Anybody with any perception at all can see that I am lying. If it comes down to having to not tell the truth, I would opt for remaining silent. I do not particularly want to learn to become an effective and skilled liar. I just don't want to do it. I do best by saying something that has some truth in it. For instance, if I was supposed to mail a letter before noon and I forget and mail 2 hours later and the person calls and asks if I remembered to mail it before noon, I will answer that I nearly forgot but fortunately it got mailed and then I try to change the subject. If they really pin me down, I can not say that I mailed it by noon if I did not. Sometimes I throw in some smoke and mirrors and say, the line at the post office was really long but it went out and will be in Chicago tomorrow or something like that.
Lakey

Freedom begins with the ability to freely and easily tell people to go fuck themselves.

When somebody asks you about something that's none of their business, you can tell them the truth, you can tell them a lie, or you can tell them "how about you mind your own business?". The last is something that Scientologists are actively discouraged from doing, especially in conversations with org terminals.

Recovering that skill is important in recovering your freedom.

 

[lkwdblds]

It says to withhold and not fabricate a major lie.

If I recall correctly, one of the definitions of Responsibility is "admit cause, able to withhold". One of the defs. I rather like.

Jack

As I pointed out to Leon, it says to withhold but not to fabricate a complete false lie. There is a distinction here. I see the wisdom in withholding. To me,the fabrication of a lie, particularly one that harms someone or misleads them into disaster is not part of this definition.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Great point!

Freedom begins with the ability to freely and easily tell people to go fuck themselves.

When somebody asks you about something that's none of their business, you can tell them the truth, you can tell them a lie, or you can tell them "how about you mind your own business?". The last is something that Scientologists are actively discouraged from doing, especially in conversations with org terminals.

Recovering that skill is important in recovering your freedom.

Enthetan,
I really like the "How about minding your own business!". It is a great handle. Either telling the truth or saying that pretty much handles the problem for me. . Occasionally, a half truth which omits telling some part of the truth but what one does say is true, does the job and sometimes a fib or a white lie, is in order. Telling a bold faced lie to me is almost never the proper response.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Good, communicating without social veneer. I love it!

There are people , who prey , as Standard Operating Procedure, on weak(er) beings. They see a weakness, they dive right in. If you've never read "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu, now might be a good time. If the USA, Ronald Reagan, or the current president was ALWAYS open and honest, We, US citizens would be in for amazing attacks. Establishing firewalls on information is a high priority duty. This is true personally too.

I should have read it in the past, probably will not read it right now.

that is a major understatement



As Dr. Phil would say, "How's that loyalty with the ex wife working out?"

Its working out very well as friends, actually better than when we were husband and wife. We make very good close friends, spouses was not a good fit for us though the marriage lasted over 28 years. The kids are grown up 22 and 27 and we both want our independence. I ALSO WANT OUT OF THE MARRIAGE NOT JUST HER! The purpose of the marriage to have a 2D partner and to raise children is no longer a valid goal. I am nearly 14 years older and she wants a passionate sex life and I don't or can't or whatever.

My take is that it is near impossible to have a real friendship with someone that I can't trust to remain silent when need be. In business, government, and personal areas there are always thins to be quiet about.

If I tell you something, Lakey, I can be 90% certain that you will tell the first person that you meet what I had said. That is not good security. You won't get any PCs on that Operating Basis. No girl friends either.

You are wrong there. I have known your real name since December and have told no one. I don't talk behind the backs of other board members or reveal details of their private lives. Sometimes, if someone I know is handling a mutual acquaintance, I may give what I know about that person to the one doing the handling if it is data which I feel may result in a better handling for the person receiving the handling. 90% is way way too high of a figure. Maybe anything over zero is too high but the chance that I would tell the first person that I meet what you said is nearly 0%, but the chance that I might tell a close friend is maybe 25 to 33%, I am just guessing. A lot would depend upon the conversation we were having.

My problem is more not being discrete than revealing private data. I gave some data concerning one of your old Avatars which irked you and I also irked Mark Baker by mentioning someone who he was planning on bringing to one of our brunches. I blabbed the name of Bent Corydon when I should have checked first to see if it was okay.

If a PC tells me something, it is private, not for anybody.

Same for me, I never have revealed a PC's data to this day.

If a business colleague tells me something, it is private, unless marked as public.

I tend to reveal it unless I am asked specifcally not to. I think your reaction is correct on this point and I need to improve.

Because of your identity, you can't even perceive the effects of your communications.

This is not true at all, of course I can perceive the potential effect of my communications. This statement is too broad and sweeping, I do not feel you know me well enough to make this judgement evaluation.

I'd say your overts of omission are comparable to theirs of commission. When you give away the store, you are not a hero to your family.

I'd say they are not comparable. I intend no one harm while the other party is consciously plotting to commit crimes and go out exchange with me. To me, that takes me out of their league. I am not saying that what I do, like revealing some of my trade secrets is not unethical, but it is not equal to actual criminality. Indiscretion is not on the same plateau as brazen theft and embezzlement of funds.

What I do is bad enough without being likened to something even worse. You are right that my actions have harmed my family financially.

so for all that truthfulness on your part, she says that you often lied. Someone isn't be very straight with themselves.

Carmelo, you want to have your cake and eat it too. All through your reply, you take me at my word that I tell only the truth and you slam me for it. Then when my wife says that I lie all the time then you seem to assume that she is telling the truth and I am lying.

If I have lied a lot to her then it would show me to be a liar and my premise of never lying would have to be thrown out and all your comments to me about how my honesty is a case phenomena whould all have to be revised. You can't slam me for being truthful and then take my wife's side when she say I lied to her all the time. Its got to be one way or the other.


When a person / PC has a blind spot, solo auditing doesn't work on it. It takes a person, who reads the PC, can pick up thoughts, ridges, glitches and pull the thread that appears. That is what a good auditor does. If your friends don't know how to audit, they aren't the right people to take you on a trip down your time track.

Please give me a written reference where you got the above piece of tech.
Also, the spot is not totally blind since I am obviously aware of it as I am demonstrating by putting it up for discussion. On who I get to audit me, if I take this area up in auditing, I will make sure I select a friend who does know how to audit or if none of them do, then I would find a non friend to do it.

Thank you for being a guinea pig, and allowing your dirty laundry to be on display. God knows, I would not put my dirty laundry on the line. No way, Jose.

I can certainly see your point about serving as a guinea pig. I am so interested in getting to the truth of a matter that I don't mind being a guinea pig. Somehow, I just don't care that much about how others perceive me as long as I feel good about myself. iF I feel good about myself, then if I hang out some dirty laundry for others to see and they ridicule me or make disparaging remarks, I remain very detached and read what they say and see if there is merit in it and if there is, I try and use it to improve. If what they say has no merit, I just let it go and it rolls off my back and does not bother me in the least.

In your case, as you probably know, I feel there is a lot of merit in your critique of this blind spot in my personaltiy and I feel your remarks are well intended and much of what you say makes sense. As I indicate above, I do not agree with you 100% and I state why. Your comments in no way offend me or lower my affinity for you. Each person plays the cards they are dealt to some degree. In this lifetime, I set a goal to learn some of the answers to life. In this I have succeeded far far more than I ever thought possible. Finding Scientology was a big step in me acquiring my knowledge and now, the one year in ex Scientology has led to more wisdom than the over 30 years involved in Scientology. I always knew I had a talent for writing and I have proven it here on ESMB and that has made me feel good about myself. Also, some of the people who I have met and befriended me have made me feel good about myself. I will correct the problem of being too honest and I count you as one of the ones who have helped me most in this critical area and I thank you for what you have done in this regard.
Lakey

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Patriotic cutie!

My current avatar is my blond daughter, age 3, in her Izod preppy red and white stripe polo shirt, Levis, and bare feet on the Capitol Steps (not the political satire musical group) in D.C. It's one of my favorite pics.

Red, White and Blue! I get it! Cutie Pie, kid, Carmelo!