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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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lkwdblds

Crusader
Maybe because it was CC, a little fun was tolerated.

Paulette Cooper might disagree with you. Mary Sue relayed her husband's orders to destroy her via the 'Flagship's' telex machine. (To avoid confusion on this, the main Op to destroy Cooper - which almost succeeded the first time - was re-started four years later [April 1976], and re-named, as Op Freak Out, during Hubbard's time residing in Washington, DC., after he had secretly left Florida.)



The above Robert Dam link quotes Jon Atack from 1984, when Atack was on the UK 'OT Committee'. (!!!) Additional information became available after that, and Atack changed his views and conclusions somewhat. If one cares about this period, it might not be a bad idea to consult the views of former major Mission Holders, such as Corydon and Samuels, from 1986 or later, once the cult programming began to wear off and the pieces of the puzzle started to fall into place.

Yes, Hubbard went "off lines" for about a year, having become fearful of (very real, it wasn't due to "false reports") pending civil and legal consequences of his actions. Hubbard later came back on lines and ordered the looting of the Missions.

As for "If it isn't fun, it isn't Scientology," and the idea that, after 'KSW' and the establishing of the Sea Org, Scientology was "fun"... well... For what it's worth, here's a thread that touches on that... starting at post #8:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=15906&highlight=red,+shore

Over and out.

Veda, maybe it was because it was Celibrity Centre and it was run by Yvonne, but a little slack was given and some spirit of play was allowed to occur. Even in the DM era, CC Los Angeles makes an attempt to look as if it is fun, although if you try doing a service there as I did when I enrolled my then 13 year old daughter on the Student Hat Course, you quickly find out that even at CC, things are deadly serious.

Back from 1970 to my nest to last course there in 1975, there was fun to be had there. Being on staff, we had a real good espirit de corps. They had nightly entertainment 7 nights a week in their live theater and some of the acts were very good, Vegas lounge level of entertainment or higher. We also had the snack bar with all sorts of health food type goodies available. People could actually hang out there and just chat and not be hounded by registrars. Our staff mess hall was a real happening with Tony the maitre'd wearing his tux every night and serving the Execs and we had many guests who ate with us, the most famous of who was Shelly Winters. Anne Frances was on course as was Dick Kiel, the 7'2" giant who went on to play Jaws in the James Bond films. None of the musical and artistic talent and the Celebrity guests and visitors would not have stayed around if the place was run seriously and no one was having fun. Even a trip to the Registrar was fun with Hector Carmona and his seascape painting he bought from me and his coffee and tea service with the fine linen napkins and fancy silverware and sugar cube and cream serving utensils. The last course I did there in 1975 (except for a return course in 1979 on La Brea Blvd. just to check the place out) still revealed a fun atmosphere. I twinned on course with Ricks Knutson, a pianist who was Mormon and was a good friend of Heber's at Brigham Youmg University in Heber's pre Scientology days. Ricks was gay and had a partner, Ron, and they were wealthy and lived in a mansion up in Montecito near Santa Barbara. Ricks and I made friends and for the next year or two, I went up to Montecito perhaps 6 times. Ricks gave classical concerts which I attended and was even friends with the famous actress Jane Russel who was around early 50's then. Ricks even sold her a Dianetics book. I was introduced to her, she just nodded and sat down. She was in poor case shape then, pretty socked in and low toned.

By 1979, on La Brea Blvd, CCLA was not that exciting of a place. Still I attended an opinion leaders meeting and got to meet Diana Canova and reminice with her about her Mom, the old time star Judy Canova. Wings Hauser could still sing a stiring song, such as about the dentist who liked to fill cavities, expecially those of his attractive female patients. Up on La Brea, in 1979, Yvonne was gone by then and the place lacked its old spark. Something was missing. I was 39 and still single. Mary Edler the 19 year old receptionist took a liking to me because I was already an old timer and had been there when Yvonne was around. Mary and I started flirting and then one day she told me that she really liked me a lot and would have asked me to be her 2D but she had just met this guy 6 months ago and they had just married. We started calling each other on the phone and she told her husband about me and how I was such fun guy to hang with. She put him on the phone once and he and I talked and I told him he was very lucky to have got Marry, she was so beautiful and so much fun to hang with. He was a real nice guy in his early twenties. Even so, I met Mary for the next couple of years at New York George's and places such as that. I told my wife about the friendship with Mary. She did not particularly like it but did not try and kill it. I suggested we go as a couple to visit them but she was'nt interested. My wife was only 27 then. In 1982 when my Son was only 3 months old, Mary called and wanted to meet for lunch and I brought my baby Son along in the car to show her. Soon after that, we lost touch and never saw each other again. Yes, fun and games at CCLA, the spirit of play and having lots of fun. I was lucky to be a part of it and have all these memories tucked into my mind.
Lakey
 
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Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
You Got It

It's a technique that spousal abusers use.

Be very loving much of the time, but the spouse never knows what is going to trigger the abuser's rage, and so stays in a state of "walking on eggshells" to avoid doing anything to trigger the bad side.

You got it right; two of his customers were that way too, husband with suppressed anger and cowed wife, as I saw them both.
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
Michel ??

It would appear that Michel, who last posted on 22 April, was gotten to by the
CO$, who couldn't stand the Truth going out regarding OT-7 stats and
sabotages, apparently.
He does not have a PM connection.
He was like a comet going by, fast, bright, and powerful.

Does anyone live near him, which I think was in Lake Como, Italy, who could check up on him ?
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
I don't think I gave you a 'welcome aboard' yet Face :)

Consider it given and here's hoping you keep writing.

Zinj

Thanks, zinj...glad to be here...I'l keep postin', off and on, until Yall say, "We're not telling you that you have to go home, we're just saying that you can't hang around here with us anymore."

Face:)
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Michel is a class act.

It would appear that Michel, who last posted on 22 April, was gotten to by the
CO$, who couldn't stand the Truth going out regarding OT-7 stats and
sabotages, apparently.
He does not have a PM connection.
He was like a comet going by, fast, bright, and powerful.

Does anyone live near him, which I think was in Lake Como, Italy, who could check up on him ?

What a brave and truthful stand up type guy Michel is. I hope that he just got busy with something else and gave up on ESMB. It happens, people get busy with other matters or lose interest. Hiedrun Beer was posting like crazy and stopped posting here but she still posts on Faceblook. We don't hear much, if anything, from Purple Haze and she was active for awhile, same with Diana Class VIII. I've noticed that Gadfly gets very active and then leaves for months at a time and then comes back active again.

Lets hope that is what is going on with Michel. Yes, he shot through here like a comet. On the other hand, the kind of data and stats which he was giving out was not supposed to be for broad publication and there is a high probability that C of S was able to get to him and shut him down. Those of us who are information addicts and have a manic to know everything are very lucky that his comet passed our way. The man is wise way beyond his years.
Lakey
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
You're right

I noticed a lot of people in Scn operated the way Mary Sue did -- never directly attacking, but instead getting others to attack you.

The reason that savvy/sneaky execs did it this way, is that you could never know if the person you attacked might suddenly wind up having more power than you (or you suddenly being busted to a position where you would be vulnerable to him). So he would try to put as many proxies as possible between him and you, so you could never be sure where the attack was coming from.

You're exactly right, Enthetan...also, if you apply "Admin Tech", as written, the Exec has many ways to never "front up" with their "target". The 3 May PL "Ethics and Executives" has Execs "fronting up", but that's bogus as the rest of the PL has a host of the rest of the org already after you...as per Policy. And, quite frankly, most SO Senior Execs couldn't find a real or right "Why" anyway...and IMO that includes El Ron. IMHO El Ron's "Why's" "worked" because they were "El Ron Why's" and if they didn't "raise stats" it was because of the "hidden CI" and, perforce, they "worked" because Hisself's "Why", always pushed home with a vengence, "uncovered" the "hidden CI' and the "Who" behind "It". And, who were the "Who's"? The one's resisting the wrong "Why".

I've seen it where Orgs got shot so full of holes by inept, at best, "Management" that any "Why" and 'Program" short of suicide in masse would have "raised the stats".

Face:)
 
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Veda

Sponsor
This former Mission Holder has some valuable things to say regarding the
RTC Massacre time period:

http://www.freezone.org/reports/e_green.htm

This Peter Green debrief is from 1982. It is very naive.

But, after all, it was 1982.

Now it's 2010.

A little more is known now.

This debrief mentions that Bent Corydon also had his Mission taken away, and that "Bent can tell his own story." Well, four years later, after unearthing much information, and pretty well recovered from the Scientology cult programming, he did, and it's in the book 'Messiah or Madman?'

You won't see it promoted by the Scientology Freezone.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Veda, maybe it was because it was Celibrity Centre and it was run by Yvonne, but a little slack was given and some spirit of play was allowed to occur. Even in the DM era, CC Los Angeles makes an attempt to look as if it is fun, although if you try doing a service there as I did when I enrolled my then 13 year old daughter on the Student Hat Course, you quickly find out that even at CC, things are deadly serious.

Back from 1970 to my nest to last course there in 1975, there was fun to be had there. Being on staff, we had a real good espirit de corps. They had nightly entertainment 7 nights a week in their live theater and some of the acts were very good, Vegas lounge level of entertainment or higher. We also had the snack bar with all sorts of health food type goodies available. People could actually hang out there and just chat and not be hounded by registrars. Our staff mess hall was a real happening with Tony the maitre'd wearing his tux every night and serving the Execs and we had many guests who ate with us, the most famous of who was Shelly Winters. Anne Frances was on course as was Dick Kiel, the 7'2" giant who went on to play Jaws in the James Bond films. None of the musical and artistic talent and the Celebrity guests and visitors would not have stayed around if the place was run seriously and no one was having fun. Even a trip to the Registrar was fun with Hector Carmona and his seascape painting he bought from me and his coffee and tea service with the fine linen napkins and fancy silverware and sugar cube and cream serving utensils. The last course I did there in 1975 (except for a return course in 1979 on La Brea Blvd. just to check the place out) still revealed a fun atmosphere. I twinned on course with Ricks Knutson, a pianist who was Mormon and was a good friend of Heber's at Brigham Youmg University in Heber's pre Scientology days. Ricks was gay and had a partner, Ron, and they were wealthy and lived in a mansion up in Montecito near Santa Barbara. Ricks and I made friends and for the next year or two, I went up to Montecito perhaps 6 times. Ricks gave classical concerts which I attended and was even friends with the famous actress Jane Russel who was around early 50's then. Ricks even sold her a Dianetics book. I was introduced to her, she just nodded and sat down. She was in poor case shape then, pretty socked in and low toned.

By 1979, on La Brea Blvd, CCLA was not that exciting of a place. Still I attended an opinion leaders meeting and got to meet Diana Canova and reminice with her about her Mom, the old time star Judy Canova. Wings Hauser could still sing a stiring song, such as about the dentist who liked to fill cavities, expecially those of his attractive female patients. Up on La Brea, in 1979, Yvonne was gone by then and the place lacked its old spark. Something was missing. I was 39 and still single. Mary Edler the 19 year old receptionist took a liking to me because I was already an old timer and had been there when Yvonne was around. Mary and I started flirting and then one day she told me that she really liked me a lot and would have asked me to be her 2D but she had just met this guy 6 months ago and they had just married. We started calling each other on the phone and she told her husband about me and how I was such fun guy to hang with. She put him on the phone once and he and I talked and I told him he was very lucky to have got Marry, she was so beautiful and so much fun to hang with. He was a real nice guy in his early twenties. Even so, I met Mary for the next couple of years at New York George's and places such as that. I told my wife about the friendship with Mary. She did not particularly like it but did not try and kill it. I suggested we go as a couple to visit them but she was'nt interested. My wife was only 27 then. In 1982 when my Son was only 3 months old, Mary called and wanted to meet for lunch and I brought my baby Son along in the car to show her. Soon after that, we lost touch and never saw each other again. Yes, fun and games at CCLA, the spirit of play and having lots of fun. I was lucky to be a part of it and have all these memories tucked into my mind.
Lakey

Thanks for sharing the info.

I also had some fun in (the secretive compartmentalized cult of) Scientology; and Celebrity Center was supposed to be fun; and even today, somewhere in Scientology, someone, perhaps at Celebrity Center, or on the comfortable fringes of Scientology, is having fun.
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Yes, Lakey

On DM's being all bad. Its just my opinion having never been up close to DM but just seeing him speak at events in the 80's and 90's but he does not seem to have a good side to him. Being all bad seems to be higher up the scales than covertly being your friend. With DM, you know you are going to be treated unscrupulously so there are no surprises.

I and most everyone I know would much rather be in an LRH run group than a DM run group. If LRH were 1.1 at covert hostility, this would not be the case. He seemed to be capable of having both a good side and an evil side, definitely a split personality. When in his good valences, it seems he was a delight to be around, a lot of fun and was capable of helping people. When he was in his bad valences, hell hath no fury like LRH scorned. I was active for just over 3 decades and for me, things were definitely more fun and exciting when LRH was at the helm. With the advent of DM, the maxim that "seriousness equals mass" was dropped as was, "if it's not fun it's not Scientology" and the spirit of play, still quite high in the early 70's was completely gone.

LRH, probably pushed by MSH, was responsible for allowing a light hearted spirit of play attitude to exist in the Orgs. Yvonne sure put that into her management style and the Missions, well I never attended classes at one, but from all the stories told on ESMB and other sites, they were really full of fun and the spirit of play. From the beginning, DM seemed to frown on having fun and considered being kind to people as being off purpose and just a case manifestation.

I think that if Scientology had been run the way the most successful Missions were run, such as COSMOD and the Riverside Mission and several others, and if the prices were lowered to comply with early policies which LRH wrote on pricing, and if co auditing was practiced in earnest where a person and their twin audited each other up the Bridge at very little cost plus experiencing a lot of training, then I believe that Scientology would truly number in the millions today and be much more main stream. Those Mission Holders of the 70's really knew what they were doing in getting a controversial subject to become more mainstream and grow quickly in numbers. Killing off that network and taking over the money was a watershed moment in the Scientology movement and is ultimately leading to its demise.
Lakey

Blue's comments re: destruction of the the Mission Holders Network is what started me on my "Reader's Digest" treatment...El Ron's Jock Strap was way too big for Da Monster and DM never had an MSH...as a matter of fact, DM relished the moment he could shove bamboo shoots under Mary Sue's cancer-brittle finger nails.

But, DM is there for one reason only...El Ron Hisself set the predicate... Which, is eventually where I'm going with all this. We all know Hisself did...all I'm doing is sharing, for what it's worth, my "Admin Tech" take on WTF happened from my perspective. El Ron forsake Mary Sue when she was "down" and I'm convinced that she would have never done that to El Ron...regardless of what the consequences would be to her.

Face:)
 
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afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
I Love iT!

Nobody, but nobody does "Baby Face" like Al Jolson.

Coincidentally I was playing Jolson doing "Baby Face" while driving today.

In addition Jolson built and lived at Kirstie Alley's house in Encino before she and Parker bought it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxMaYqLwTvg

Thanks, Carmelo...You Da Man...I love Jolsen! "The Sun Shines East...The Sun Shines West...But I know Where The Sun Shines Best!"

Face:happydance::happydance::happydance:
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
We had fun, fun, fun 'til Daddy took the T-Bird away

Thanks for sharing the info.

I also had some fun in (the secretive compartmentalized cult of) Scientology; and Celebrity Center was supposed to be fun; and even today, somewhere in Scientology, someone, perhaps at Celebrity Center, or on the comfortable fringes of Scientology, is having fun.

Ya know, Veda, you're kinda fun yourself, too.:lol:
 

Veda

Sponsor
Ya know, Veda, you're kinda fun yourself, too.:lol:

Thanks, and welcome.

I would add that for mission holders (of big missions) things were not quite as much fun as public might have thought. And attacks on Missions (from Hubbard, although his involvement would often be hidden), go back to the 1960s. Suggest reading Corydon's 'Madman?', notably the chapters, on Mission holder-related activities.

My take on "fun" - and a discussion of "fun" in Scientology - can be found, amongst other places, in this thread, starting at post#8: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=15906&highlight=red,+shore
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
Best Book

Thanks, and welcome.

I would add that for mission holders (of big missions) things were not quite as much fun as public might have thought. And attacks on Missions (from Hubbard, although his involvement would often be hidden), go back to the 1960s. Suggest reading Corydon's 'Madman?', notably the chapters, on Mission holder-related activities.

My take on "fun" - and a discussion of "fun" in Scientology - can be found, amongst other places, in this thread, starting at post#8: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=15906&highlight=red,+shore

Even with all of the new books, Bent Corydon's "LRH: Madman Or Messiah"
is still the best book done to date and I'd recommend that book as a first read to anyone leaving the CO$, even before most websites.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Even with all of the new books, Bent Corydon's "LRH: Madman Or Messiah"
is still the best book done to date and I'd recommend that book as a first read to anyone leaving the CO$, even before most websites.

The 1996 edition is best, the '92 next, and the '87 rush-to-print had some rough spots - good data but formatting could have been better. The chapters re. the Mission Holders are unchanged in all editions and, IMO, very readable and informative. It's worth reviewing.

Here's the 'Madman?' thread: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1090

The Martin Samuels' comments in the 'Reflections' chapter are also worthy of reviewing. :)
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank You, Veda

Thanks, and welcome.

I would add that for mission holders (of big missions) things were not quite as much fun as public might have thought. And attacks on Missions (from Hubbard, although his involvement would often be hidden), go back to the 1960s. Suggest reading Corydon's 'Madman?', notably the chapters, on Mission holder-related activities.

My take on "fun" - and a discussion of "fun" in Scientology - can be found, amongst other places, in this thread, starting at post#8: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=15906&highlight=red,+shore

I started reading ESMB 4 or 5 months before I "joined" and made my first post on the "Power of Source" thread. I have, over the last 7 or 8 months, read and read and read on ESMB. Before, and after, I "found" ESMB" I've spent some months reading, reading and reading so much--including Bent's book. I knew and respected Bent, Marty Samuels and so, so many other of your fellow "Players". I've spent time reading, for hours and hours, the “personal string” of your posts, Dart’s, Alan’s, Mystic’s, Rog’s and many, many others here. I’m going to go back over the next few days and re-read the “string” you have referenced in your post.

For now, much to my chagrin, I must judiciously edit my posts. But, I want you to know that you, the aforementioned, Lakey, Carmelo and, for that matter, all of you here on this thread and ESMB have become like an “Oysterman’s knife” for so much I’ve held hard and so “close to my chest” for too long. No matter what comes (although I must continue with caution), there are things I want “to talk about” with Yall and I appreciate Yall’s listening and all Yall’s own personal “take”—from which I have had the opportunity for intelligent insight, greater understanding and just plain old “real good BS”.

Face:)
 
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Enthetan

Master of Disaster
You're exactly right, Enthetan...also, if you apply "Admin Tech", as written, the Exec has many ways to never "front up" with their "target". The 3 May PL "Ethics and Executives" has Execs "fronting up", but that's bogus as the rest of the PL has a host of the rest of the org already after you...as per Policy. And, quite frankly, most SO Senior Execs couldn't find a real or right "Why" anyway...and IMO that includes El Ron. IMHO El Ron's "Why's" "worked" because they were "El Ron Why's" and if they didn't "raise stats" it was because of the "hidden CI" and, perforce, they "worked" because Hisself's "Why", always pushed home with a vengence, "uncovered" the "hidden CI' and the "Who" behind "It". And, who were the "Who's"? The one's resisting the wrong "Why".

I've seen it where Orgs got shot so full of holes by inept, at best, "Management" that anything short of suicide in masse would "raise the stats".

Face:)


I was reading the Peter Green writeup, and one piece struck me:
And so, the Mission Holders Meeting was supposed to have been Friday night, Saturday and Sunday and then go home. In fact, I think it lasted to the following Thursday because so much data was coming out, so much false data was being stripped. We had something like 200 people who'd come in from all over- from San Francisco, from Dallas, from Austin, from Connecticut, from L.A., i.e., org people, Sea Org people, G.O. people, mission staff and so forth. They begin to tell their stories.

Many of them were horror stories of being ripped-off, raped and black-mailed, or removed from post when they had upstat conditions. Or being given false ethics trips, black P.R. and so forth. And it was, in effect, running out the group engram. It was not, as was alleged, a squirrel-group engram-running. It was simply that the false data was falling away and the truth was emerging.

And people were blowing charge and they were coming back to the truth. For example, one guy will stand up and start telling what had happened to him in D.C. and another one will say, "Well I have some other data on that", and he tells his side of it. Somebody else will say, "I've got something to contribute here because this was what was happening. I, at the time, was on such and such post, I got orders to do so and so, and that was why you got done in because the order came from Bla Bla." Then Blah Blah would have to stand up and tell his side of it.

And it was a connecting up of people, many of them whom were OTs and NOTs people, and they weren't taking any bull shit and they were telling the truth and charge was blowing and truth was coming in. False data was being just blown to pieces and it was an incredible connecting up of people as a true group wanting to connect up with LRH.

...

And then Joe Leasa stood up and he started telling some of his withholds and his activities in the G.O. and Alan Hubbert got up and said, "In my 7 years in the G.O. I am proud to say that I never once committed any criminal acts."

And immediately, Darby Simpson said, "Well you did with me, on that cycle you handled," and he admitted, "that's true, well I guess that was illegal." And Renee Duke got up and said, "you really were illegal with.... and did this, and that was criminal." And he admitted to that, and then we tried to pull Alan Hubbert's withholds, but he wouldn't come clean and the room knew that this guy was squirming and witholding.

This second meeting consisted of about 5 days of grief, tears of people crying, of hearing other people's horror stories. Doran told the story of Lori's death. I told the story of the attacks on us at Saint Hill after we went there to disseminate NOTS and were the first NOTS completions ever to promote the subject in England.

I suspect this was one of the contributing factors of why Int flipped out.

All the years of screwing people over via proxies was threatening to unravel if all sorts of old timers started comparing notes and revealing who ordered what against who.

Some very senior people were scared that some string-pulling and roll-back might happen against THEM.
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
Close Enough

I was reading the Peter Green writeup, and one piece struck me:


I suspect this was one of the contributing factors of why Int flipped out.

All the years of screwing people over via proxies was threatening to unravel if all sorts of old timers started comparing notes and revealing who ordered what against who.

Some very senior people were scared that some string-pulling and roll-back might happen against THEM.

Yep, I'd say you got it, as DM was getting very nervous that his destructive third party was found out. Talk about a severe missed withhold !!:omg:
I wish someone would have put him out of his misery early.
But actually the entire Sea Org should have been destroyed, and although it is too late now, it still should be.
 

Blue Spirit

Silver Meritorious Patron
Messiah Or Madman

The 1996 edition is best, the '92 next, and the '87 rush-to-print had some rough spots - good data but formatting could have been better. The chapters re. the Mission Holders are unchanged in all editions and, IMO, very readable and informative. It's worth reviewing.

Here's the 'Madman?' thread: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1090

The Martin Samuels' comments in the 'Reflections' chapter are also worthy of reviewing. :)

If I had to choose only one item to read on Scientology, it would be that book.
It is free online here:

http://www.clambake.org/archive/books/mom/Messiah_or_Madman.txt
 
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