The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[afaceinthecrowd]

The Lord & Lady of The Manor

The Saint Hill Era was when El Ron cum Elmer Gantry cum Lonesome Rhodes came into Hisself’s “own” as an “Organizational Genius”.

The brightest minds and most gifted talents from all across the Scn world came through and, in many cases, stayed at St. Hill. As has already been very well chronicled by others, much of the “Modern” Tech was “given” to El Ron by these folks at St. Hill. As has already been chronicled as well, often the Tech that El Ron was “given” was bastardized and re-tooled to Hisself’s liking and interpretation.

Earlier in this thread I told the story of El Ron taking my write-up of exactly how Ole Face here put a newly created Org Bd position in long-term Power and then Hisself cut the guts out it when El Ron issued "LRH" PL’s re: that position. Although I was not at St. Hill, I did work with and get to know—some quite well—a number of St. Hillers, and some were the “Big Names”. I am convinced that on the “Green Tech” side El Ron did exactly as he did on the “Red Tech” side; Hisself ripped-off others and took credit for their works and promoted the idea that El Ron was “Booming the Stats”. Also, earlier in this thread, I wrote a few posts about Monolithic Command and Control Organizations. El Ron’s “How to Live Though an Executive”—a particularly crappy piece of work in my opinion—is basically nothing more than regurgitated and bastardized MCCO procedure that he learned during his time in the Navy.

El Ron as Gantry/Rhodes had quite a game going by the early ‘60’s. El Ron had organizations where people would work hard for a pittance selling his books that Hisself got a very favorable royalty percentage from. El Ron had Orgs all the way up to St. Hill paying significant fees for Hisself’s “Management Expertise” and El Ron pocketed that, too. El Ron could make any “Special Assessment” Hisself wanted to at any time (do you honestly think El Ron just “gave” the Orgs his 7 and 9 Div Org Bds?). As a “Religion” El Ron could do all of this and direct the cash flow without any oversight or payment of taxes, and the fact that folks would work for a pittance to “Clear the Planet” was used by El Ron to create an organization (the SO) that was de facto Master/Slave Model.

In my view, St. Hill is also where Mary Sue came “into her own”. Arguably the two most effective and professional Scn organizations ever were the GO and the Franchise Office and Mary Sue was, ultimately, the Senior Exec over both. The GO was imbued with Mary Sue’s personal traits; pragmatic, cold, cunning, calculating, efficient, fiercely loyal. Having personally worked with El Ron, known Mary Sue and observed them both in interaction and individually I am convinced that a significant amount of Green Tech of the St. Hill Era—especially Div’s 3 and 4—was from Mary Sue...with the obligatory El Ron bastardizations. Mary Sue’s formal education was far superior to that of El Ron’s; Rice University is in the Stanford, Harvard, Princeton strata and UT, Austin is a top 5 Land Grant State University in the Penn State, Rutgers and Cal, Berkeley strata and there are no "gimmie" Degrees from those schools. When I read the El Ron Affirmations stuff about Hisself’s Red haired Guardian the whole picture became clear to me...it was truly one of those H*** F'n S***! moments. I had had a front row seat for a moment in time to Hisself's delusional personal “Play” and didn’t even know it.

I read with much amusement the portrayals of El Ron, The Frugal over on Rathbun’s Sycophant Board. El Ron was not frugal…Hisself was an amoral greedy hoarder, a la Scrooge McDuck. El Ron threw money around shamelessly for his Hobby Horses and whatever Hisself’s fancy of the moment was. El Ron’s personal collections of gold, platinum and precious stone cuff links, rings, bracelets, pens, watches, studs, etc., etc. had nothing frugal about it. On the Apollo, El Ron and Family dined on the finest gourmet foods, flown in on ice, from the most expensive of purveyors. El Ron’s cloths were all hand tailored and new complete wardrobes were regularly added to the collection. El Ron and the Families accommodations and accoutrements were far, far superior to anyone else on the Apollo...the difference from the rest of the Crew was tantamount to living in a Park Avenue, Upper East Side Penthouse and a 4th floor walk-up efficiency in the Bronx for some, and a 6th floor walkup boarding room in Hell’s Kitchen for most. Any “toy” El Ron wanted was always the very best, the most expensive and often custom made for Hisself. El Ron never paid a dime out of pocket for any of this.

Mary Sue was the frugal one but she was a hoarder, too, and what she hoarded was Power and Control. Up until the St. Hill Era Mary Sue was on-again/off-again on the main “stage” with El Ron as she was, in rapid succession, producing the next generation but, behind the scene, she was certainly helping to refine the “Act”. El Ron consistently made very amateurish mistakes in Hisself’s game until Mary Sue came into the picture. With Mary Sue around El Ron still made amateurish mistakes but the whole operation was much more pragmatic, cold, cunning, calculating, efficient, fiercely loyal. The St. Hill Era was the longest period of time to date that El Ron and Mary Sue could “synergize” their respective “talents” without the interference of child birthing. Those years may well have been the happiest years that Mary Sue had as Mrs. El Ron El Rey.

I don’t know if anyone else has ever written about this but Mary Sue, at least during the mid-70’s, had an intense interest in Astrology. I think it was partly for “fun and amusement”, however, she really did think that there was “something to it” and was actually quite knowledgeable about the subject.

But, alas, all good things must come to an end. In ’67 El Ron “ran for it” yet again and the Sea Org was born.

From a Management perspective the most amazing thing to me about my years in the upper SO echelons, and “up close and personal with El Ron”, is that Hisself, and therefore Int Management, were completely clueless as to what caused the “Boom Years” of the late 60’s and 70’s. El Ron thought it was all due to his Standard Tech, Admin Tech and SO Model so Hisself’s solution for virtually anything was always “New & Improved Standard Tech” and “New & Improved Admin Tech” and more SO everything and anything. El Ron, certainly, was also aware...at least at that time...that Hisself had ripped off and ripped up the folks that had actually made Scn, IMO, worthwhile being part of back then. This ignorance and disdain of the fundamental drivers of the “Boom”, and the arrogance of Hisself’s always rightness, is the genus of the “Think” and separate reality that made—and still makes—the SO the “Confederacy of Zealots and Dunces” that it is.

Next up in a few days: El Ron Misses The Boat.

Face

 

[lkwdblds]

Hey Face, was their an 8 year cycle?

Great post Face! Very enlightening info about Mary Sue. Back in my Celebrity Centre days, we go a bit of numerology. We were told that things occured in 8 year cycles in Scientology and that these phases matched up with various divisions on the Org Board.

The period from 1950 to 1958 was a sort of Div I phase having to do with establishment. The Organization was centered in the United States. From 1959 to 1966 was a Div II or dissemenation phase and occurred at Sea. From 1974 to around 1982 was the next phase and had to do with accumulation of wealth or a Treasury Div III Phase. The looting of the Mission Holders occurred at the end of this phaw. This phase was conducted from Flag in Florida. The next phase was to be the Div IV or Technical Phase where the bridge was to be completed. LRH dropped his body during this phase so the phases appeared to end there.

Very unfortunate, because the next phase which could have commenced in 1990 or 1991 would have been the Qual Division Phase where the Organization whould have emphasized Quality Control and worked out all the bugs in their methods of operation. That one never saw the light of day. Even if Hubbard had lived longer, the Organization self correcting itself does not seem very likely. Only after the organization had quality corrected itself could the organization then move out into Div 6, the delivery to brand new public phase. This would have started around the year 1998. Maybe DM's Golden Age of Tech was an attempt to tailor the tech to be more appealing to the public at large and maybe the palatial style ideal Orgs are his version of making the organization more real to the public at large as well. Who knows?

Face, you talk of Hubbard periodically on the run and taking off to a new location but his major running seems to have occured about every 8 years, did you ever hear of anyting about these 8 year cycles when you were deeply involved with LRH and MSH?
Lakey

 

[Terril park]

The Saint Hill era was when El Ron cum Elmer Gantry cum Lonesome Rhodes came into Hisself’s “own” as an “Organizational Genius”.

The brightest minds and most gifted talents from all across the Scn world came through and, in many cases, stayed at St. Hill. As has already been very well chronicled by others, much of the “Modern” Tech was “given” to El Ron by these folks at St. Hill. As has already been chronicled as well, often the tech that El Ron was “given” was bastardized and re-tooled to Hisself’s interpretation.

Earlier in this thread I told the story of El Ron taking my write up of exactly how ole Face here put a newly created org bd position in long-term Power and cut the guts out it when Hisself issued his PL’s re: that position. Although I was not at St. Hill, I did work with and get to know—some quite well—a number of St. Hillers, and some were the “big names”. I am convinced that on the “Green Tech” side El Ron did exactly as he did on the “Red Tech” side; Hisself ripped-off others and took credit for their works and promoted the idea that El Ron was “Booming the Stats”. Also, earlier in this thread, I wrote a few posts about Monolithic Command and Control Organizations. El Ron’s “How to Live Though an Executive”—a particularly crappy piece of work in my opinion—is basically nothing more than regurgitated and bastardized MCCO procedure that he learned during his time in the Navy.

El Ron as Gantry/Rhodes had quite a game going by the early ‘60’s. El Ron had organizations where people would work hard for a pittance selling his books that Hisself got a very favorable royalty percentage from. El Ron had Orgs all the way up to St. Hill paying significant fees for Hisself’s “Management Expertise” and he pocketed that, too. El Ron could make any “Special Assessment” Hisself wanted to at any time (do you honestly think El Ron just “gave” the Orgs his 7 and 9 Div Org Bds?). As a “Religion” El Ron could do all of this and direct the cash flow without any oversight or payment of taxes, and the fact that folks would work for a pittance to “Clear the Planet” was used by El Ron to create an organization (the SO) that was de facto master/slave.

In my view, St. Hill is also where Mary Sue came “into her own”. Arguably the two most effective and professional Scn organizations ever were the GO and the Franchise Office and Mary Sue was, ultimately, the Senior Exec over both. The GO was imbued with Mary Sue’s personal traits; pragmatic, cold, cunning, calculating, efficient, fiercely loyal. Having personally worked with El Ron, known Mary Sue and observed them both in interaction and individually I am convinced that a significant amount of Green Tech of the St. Hill Era—especially Div’s 3 and 4—was from Mary Sue, with the obligatory El Ron bastardizations. Mary Sue’s formal education was far superior to El Ron’s; Rice University is in the Stanford, Harvard, Princeton echelon and UT, Austin is a top 5 Land Grant State University. When I read the El Ron Affirmations stuff about Hisself’s Red haired Guardian the whole picture became clear to me,,,it was truly one of those HFS! moments. I had had a front row seat for a moment in time to the “Play” and didn’t even know it.

I read with much amusement the portrayal’s of El Ron, The Frugal, over on Rathbun’s Sycophant Board. El Ron was not frugal…Hisself was an amoral greedy hoarder, a la Scrooge McDuck. El Ron threw money around shamelessly for his hobby horses and whatever Hisself’s fancy of the moment was. El Ron’s personal collections of gold, platinum and precious stone cuff links, rings, bracelets, pens, watches, studs, etc., etc. had nothing frugal about it. On the Apollo El Ron and Hisself’s family dined on the finest gourmet foods, flown in on ice, from the most expensive of purveyors. El Ron’s cloths were all hand tailored and new wardrobes were regularly added to his collection. El Ron and family accommodations and accoutrements were far, far superior to anyone else on the Apollo. The difference with the rest of the Crew was tantamount to living in a Park Avenue, Upper East Side Penthouse and to a 4th floor walk-up efficiency in the Bronx for some, and a 6th floor walkup boarding room in Hell’s Kitchen for most. Any “toy” El Ron wanted was always the very best, the most expensive and often custom made for Hisself. El Ron never paid a dime out of pocket for any of this.

Mary Sue was the frugal one but she was a hoarder, too, and what she hoarded was Power and Control. Up until the St. Hill Era Mary Sue was on-again off-again on the main “stage” with El Ron as she was, in rapid succession, producing the next generation but, behind the scene, she was certainly helping to refine the “Act”. El Ron consistently made very amateurish mistakes in Hisself’s game until Mary Sue came into the picture. With Mary Sue around El Ron still made amateurish mistakes but the whole operation was much more pragmatic, cold, cunning, calculating, efficient, fiercely loyal. The St. Hill Era was the longest period of time to date that El Ron and Mary Sue could “synergize” their respective “talents” without the interference of child birthing. Those years were probably the happiest years that Mary Sue had as Mrs. El Ron El Rey.

I don’t know if anyone else has ever written about this but Mary Sue, at least during the mid-70’s, had an intense interest in Astrology. I think it was partly for “fun and amusement”, however, she really did think that there was “something to it” and was actually quite knowledgeable about the subject.

But, alas, all good things must come to an end. In ’67 El Ron “ran for it” again and the Sea Org was born.

From a Management perspective the most amazing thing to me about my years in the upper SO echelons, and “up close and personal with El Ron”, is that Hisself, and therefore Int Management, were completely clueless as to what caused the “Boom Years” of the late 60’s and 70’s. El Ron thought it was all due to his Standard Tech and Admin Tech and so Hisself’s solution for virtually anything was always “New & Improved Standard Tech” and “New & Improved Admin Tech”. This ignorance of the fundamental driver’s of the “Boom” and the arrogance of Hisself’s always rightness is the genus of the “Think” and separate reality that made—and still makes—the SO the “Confederacy of Zealots and Dunces” that it is.

Next up in a few days: El Ron Misses The Boat.

Face

I like a lot of the green on white, think there's way too much of it however.

Some of it though is bonkers. On another cycle I came across this:-


HCOPL 20 june 1968 ETHICS OFFICERS

" NO ORG MAY EXIST WHICH HAS LESS THAN THREE ETHICS OFFICERS ,

and THE HCO ES GOES INTO NON EXISTENCE IF SHE HAS LESS THAN THREE

E/Os AND ONE ETHICS FILE CLERK - FULL TIME- ."

 

[RogerB]

Seeing talk here about Europe's financial woes, I thought I'd give you folks in the good old US of A a heads up on your own back yard

Below is one of many reports I see of local municipalities doing the bankruptcy dance.

Bankruptcy talk spreads among Calif. muni officials
Jim Christie
Thu May 27, 2010 4:51pm EDT

(Reuters) – Two years after Vallejo, California, filed for bankruptcy protection, officials in nearby Antioch are also tossing around the ‘B’ word.

Antioch’s leaders earlier this month said bankruptcy could be an option for the cash-strapped city of roughly 100,000 on the eastern fringe of the San Francisco Bay area.

Antioch’s fiscal woes are standard issue for local governments in California: weak revenue from retail sales and property taxes is forcing spending cuts, layoffs and furloughs.

But cost-cutting measures may not be enough to keep Antioch’s books balanced, so its city council is openly discussing bankruptcy.

"We just want to alert people to the possibility," Antioch Mayor Pro Tem Mary Helen Rocha said.

Orange County Treasurer Chriss Street would not be surprised if more local governments across the Golden State sound a similar alarm.

Street expects more talk of municipal bankruptcy across California because local government finances are in such dire shape — a situation underscored on Wednesday when a top finance officer for Sacramento County projected a worse-than-expected shortfall for the county of $181 million, which could force more than 1,000 layoffs from the county’s payroll.

More at: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64Q6CQ20100527

This summer we are going to see a confluence of events (economic reports and fiance/stock market actions) that are going shock the shit out of folks.

Rog

 

[Enthetan]

The Saint Hill Era was when El Ron cum Elmer Gantry cum Lonesome Rhodes came into Hisself’s “own” as an “Organizational Genius”.

The brightest minds and most gifted talents from all across the Scn world came through and, in many cases, stayed at St. Hill. As has already been very well chronicled by others, much of the “Modern” Tech was “given” to El Ron by these folks at St. Hill. As has already been chronicled as well, often the Tech that El Ron was “given” was bastardized and re-tooled to Hisself’s likiing and interpretation.

(...snip...)

From a Management perspective the most amazing thing to me about my years in the upper SO echelons, and “up close and personal with El Ron”, is that Hisself, and therefore Int Management, were completely clueless as to what caused the “Boom Years” of the late 60’s and 70’s. El Ron thought it was all due to his Standard Tech, Admin Tech and SO Model so Hisself’s solution for virtually anything was always “New & Improved Standard Tech” and “New & Improved Admin Tech” and more SO everything and anything. This ignorance of the fundamental drivers of the “Boom”, and the arrogance of Hisself’s always rightness, is the genus of the “Think” and separate reality that made—and still makes—the SO the “Confederacy of Zealots and Dunces” that it is.

I'm wondering if the true cause of the "Boom Years" was from all those people going to Saint Hill, getting very good at auditing, and very energized and enthused about delivering it, and then going home and becoming field auditors, Mission Holders, and org staff.

And that the following bust came from them perceiving a hostile environment in the 80's and saying "Screw it, I'm out of here!"

I did perceive the attitude in the Sea Org of the 80's being serious counter-intention to anybody but central Scientology making money off Scientology, and taking that attitude out on the field.

 

[Enthetan]

Seeing talk here about Europe's financial woes, I thought I'd give you folks in the good old US of A a heads up on your own back yard

Below is one of many reports I see of local municipalities doing the bankruptcy dance.

Bankruptcy talk spreads among Calif. muni officials
Jim Christie
Thu May 27, 2010 4:51pm EDT



More at: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64Q6CQ20100527

This summer we are going to see a confluence of events (economic reports and fiance/stock market actions) that are going shock the shit out of folks.

Rog

Yes, Roger, I agree with you. The situation in the US is very shaky in a lot of places. California and New York are about bust. In New York, the governor is said to be planning mass layoffs of government workers to help balance the budget. There are a number of other states in similarly bad shape.

Probably the worst thing Obama could do would be to prop up the weaker areas until the feds run out of money and the whole US comes crashing down -- which means that is probably what Obama is going to do.

 

[RogerB]

I'm wondering if the true cause of the "Boom Years" was from all those people going to Saint Hill, getting very good at auditing, and very energized and enthused about delivering it, and then going home and becoming field auditors, Mission Holders, and org staff.

And that the following bust came from them perceiving a hostile environment in the 80's and saying "Screw it, I'm out of here!"

I did perceive the attitude in the Sea Org of the 80's being serious counter-intention to anybody but central Scientology making money off Scientology, and taking that attitude out on the field.

Nah,

The deal was this. In the 1950's and 1960's folks did simple things, got gains, got enthused about it, talked to their friends and family . . . and were allowed to get on with it.

I boomed London and the UK in 1967-8 by working with my FSMs on that basis.

Life was simple . . . you could do what you believed in and get on with it. Scientology was fun.

Hell, I even got sleepy old England going to the extent that Manchester, Birmingham and Brighton missions/orgs got started on my watch by my FSMs.

Then . . . the shit hit the fan . . . . the Sea Org know-it-alls arrived to "put in ethics," and "standard tech!"

And suddenly orgs and missions were being managed from above and told what to do. Even in 1968 I had to Job Endanger Chit an idiot from GOWW for trying to issue me stupid orders. It got worse with the SO and their missions. At least the GO followed lines and the form of an org . . . the SO Missionaire had total, personal, total ethics power . . . . and boy, did that get used to screw things up.

Hubbard's goof was that he did what he said should not be done . . . he by-passed the guys on the front lines doing a good job with the SO management from the top deal . . . . and you know what happens when you run a by-pass on an area/terminal continuously . . . it's in the tech . . . you put it in danger and eventually into non-existence!



RogerB

 

[RogerB]

Yes, Roger, I agree with you. The situation in the US is very shaky in a lot of places. California and New York are about bust. In New York, the governor is said to be planning mass layoffs of government workers to help balance the budget. There are a number of other states in similarly bad shape.

Probably the worst thing Obama could do would be to prop up the weaker areas until the feds run out of money and the whole US comes crashing down -- which means that is probably what Obama is going to do.

The Federal Gov has run out of money! That's why they, via the Fed Reserve, "printed" (actually created out of thin air by way of computer electron book/balance sheet entries) one and a half trillion additional dollars last year to "keep the show on the road" . . . . and they'll keep doing this . . . and the $US will be debased along with all the other fiat currencies. The government didn't "borrow" the money, they created it out of thin air!

Currently, the Euro is taking a beating. The $US will have its turn. The time will come when the "markets" will no longer see the $US as a safe haven currency . . . .

Rog

 

[Dulloldfart]

Reuters: " . . . Street expects more talk of municipal bankruptcy across California because local government finances are in such dire shape — a situation underscored on Wednesday when a top finance officer for Sacramento County projected a worse-than-expected shortfall for the county of $181 million, which could force more than 1,000 layoffs from the county’s payroll."

Hmpf. Sacramento County's CAFR (Comprehensive Annual Financial Report) for 2009 is at http://www.finance.saccounty.net/Auditor/pdf/cafr2009.pdf

Page 7 (the page that has the figure 7 at the bottom although the PDF reader shows it as page 36 because of the roman numeral intro pages) on one page shows the Statement of Activities for the Year Ended June 30, 2009. I can't paste it here as the formatting makes it unreadable, but it shows total assets for fiscal 2009 of $6.7 billion and total liabilities of $4.2 billion.

I don't know when they bring out the fiscal 2010 report, but it will be interesting to see what it says.

Paul

 

[RogerB]

Hmpf. Sacramento County's CAFR (Comprehensive Annual Financial Report) for 2009 is at http://www.finance.saccounty.net/Auditor/pdf/cafr2009.pdf

Page 7 (the page that has the figure 7 at the bottom although the PDF reader shows it as page 36 because of the roman numeral intro pages) on one page shows the Statement of Activities for the Year Ended June 30, 2009. I can't paste it here as the formatting makes it unreadable, but it shows total assets for fiscal 2009 of $6.7 billion and total liabilities of $4.2 billion.

I don't know when they bring out the fiscal 2010 report, but it will be interesting to see what it says.

Paul

Yeh,
Accounting can be a funny thing. What you are citing is a balance sheet . . . and God alone knows what they are counting as an "asset" at the time of the accounting . . . . maybe it was some of those charming Collateralised Debt Swap tricks that are now blowing up in the faces of the Europeans ANd maybe they are including real estate as an asset . . .

But Reuters cites a "shortfall" . . . this is cash flow i.e., money in-money out. It's a different issue/item than "assets" and "liabilities."

I remember when the original Rolls-Royce went bankrupt in about 1970 or so.

They had been accounting for the research and development of the RB211 jet engine, not as an expense, but as an asset created on their books. At the time of bankruptcy, the engine design and prototype was complete, but it still had to be tested and proven to the standard needed by the FAA in the US before they could sell any of the engines to any airlines . . . etc.

Anyway, to cut the long story short, the "balance sheet" of RR looked wonderful! . . . Trouble was they ran out of cash to pay their bills, including wages. And the value of the company was all locked up in this unproven engine showing as an asset on its books.

Of course the bad news was that once it became news that they had "run out of cash to pay wages, etc.," they could not raise any money no matter what they did.

Had they accounted for their research differently, and earlier gone for a debenture based on the RR good name, they'd have probably stayed in business as the premier engineers they were.

The rest is history though. The company was broken up into its different parts, and the aero-jet division became a ward of the government till it was able to begin getting orders and deliver the product.

Such are the games of accounting.

R

 

[Enthetan]

Hmpf. Sacramento County's CAFR (Comprehensive Annual Financial Report) for 2009 is at http://www.finance.saccounty.net/Auditor/pdf/cafr2009.pdf

Page 7 (the page that has the figure 7 at the bottom although the PDF reader shows it as page 36 because of the roman numeral intro pages) on one page shows the Statement of Activities for the Year Ended June 30, 2009. I can't paste it here as the formatting makes it unreadable, but it shows total assets for fiscal 2009 of $6.7 billion and total liabilities of $4.2 billion.

I don't know when they bring out the fiscal 2010 report, but it will be interesting to see what it says.

Paul

The 2009 report, on PDF page 10, says the data it's presenting is "as of June 30, 2009", i.e. a year ago. Roger is talking about PT. If you look at the PDF page 36, it shows a deficit of $187million, which aligns with the figures that Roger put out.

One thing that governments are notorious for, is grossly understating their liabilities in ways that would put a private-sector CEO in jail. The biggest liability is the net-present-value of their future liability for public employees pensions and health benefits.

 

[Enthetan]

Nah,

The deal was this. In the 1950's and 1960's folks did simple things, got gains, got enthused about it, talked to their friends and family . . . and were allowed to get on with it.

I boomed London and the UK in 1967-8 by working with my FSMs on that basis.

Life was simple . . . you could do what you believed in and get on with it. Scientology was fun.

Hell, I even got sleepy old England going to the extent that Manchester, Birmingham and Brighton missions/orgs got started on my watch by my FSMs.

Then . . . the shit hit the fan . . . . the Sea Org know-it-alls arrived to "put in ethics," and "standard tech!"

And suddenly orgs and missions were being managed from above and told what to do. Even in 1968 I had to Job Endanger Chit an idiot from GOWW for trying to issue me stupid orders. It got worse with the SO and their missions. At least the GO followed lines and the form of an org . . . the SO Missionaire had total, personal, total ethics power . . . . and boy, did that get used to screw things up.

Hubbard's goof was that he did what he said should not be done . . . he by-passed the guys on the front lines doing a good job with the SO management from the top deal . . . . and you know what happens when you run a by-pass on an area/terminal continuously . . . it's in the tech . . . you put it in danger and eventually into non-existence!



RogerB

Yep. Micro-management by seniors far removed from the scene, who issue orders that can unmock in a day something that took years to build and would take years to restore.

 

[RogerB]

The 2009 report, on PDF page 10, says the data it's presenting is "as of June 30, 2009", i.e. a year ago. Roger is talking about PT. If you look at the PDF page 36, it shows a deficit of $187million, which aligns with the figures that Roger put out.

One thing that governments are notorious for, is grossly understating their liabilities in ways that would put a private-sector CEO in jail. The biggest liability is the net-present-value of their future liability for public employees pensions and health benefits.

Hey, I didn't put it out

I simply posted a Reuters news report that cited various government types from local municipalities . . . .

Blame Reuters and the gov people

R

 

[Dulloldfart]

The 2009 report, on PDF page 10, says the data it's presenting is "as of June 30, 2009", i.e. a year ago. Roger is talking about PT. If you look at the PDF page 36, it shows a deficit of $187million, which aligns with the figures that Roger put out.

One thing that governments are notorious for, is grossly understating their liabilities in ways that would put a private-sector CEO in jail. The biggest liability is the net-present-value of their future liability for public employees pensions and health benefits.

I know and knew the dates. . It will be interesting to look at the 2010 report, but it might not come out for another six months.

Rog — somewhere in that CAFR I seem to remember the real estate assets at something like $198 billion (over $100B anyway).

There's a guy called Walter Burien who keeps banging a drum about CAFRs in articles and videos and how local municipalities have squillions of dollars socked away earning interest and how they don't really need tax revenues at all for their finances. It might be worth investigating if you understand these financial reports enough to see what isn't being disclosed. I don't.

Paul

 

[lkwdblds]

I talked to my friend Ken R. on this type of money creation.

The Federal Gov has run out of money! That's why they, via the Fed Reserve, "printed" (actually created out of thin air by way of computer electron book/balance sheet entries) one and a half trillion additional dollars last year to "keep the show on the road" . . . . and they'll keep doing this . . . and the $US will be debased along with all the other fiat currencies. The government didn't "borrow" the money, they created it out of thin air!

Currently, the Euro is taking a beating. The $US will have its turn. The time will come when the "markets" will no longer see the $US as a safe haven currency . . . .

Rog

I recently had a talk with a friend of mine since Jr. High School days, Ken Rothschild, concerning this topic.

He states that instead of just turniing on the printing presses or issuing credits to their Federal Reserve Banks or just creating paper money to float new issues, they sell bonds to the public, other countries and large and small inverstors. The bonds become part of the natiional debt and payments on them are made out of the general budget. Since the USA has never defaulted on a bond and pays a reasonable rate of interest, the bonds still have a fairly high rating and are still negotiable. This iissuing of bonds does not do as much damage to the economy as printing up money or giving government agencies or federal banks new money by simply issuing them credits.

Another factor is that once another country holds a large amount of US bonds, it is to their best interests to not sell off those bonds or try to redeem them. This would endanger the entire system and would lower the value of the bonds. Thus countries who hold a lot of these secrurities can not panic or dump the securities and convert to something else quickly or en masse for fear of causing themselves huge losses. Countries such as China are sort of locked in to holding onto their US Bonds. It behooves them not to rock the boat.

I am no expert and am just learning about how this works but it seems the whole financial system in the Western World is built like a house of cards. There is nothing much holding up the system, it has no solid bedrock supporting it. Ken and I talked about whether or not things were more stable when the major countries were on a gold standard where our currencies were backed by gold. I always thought that the backing of currencies with gold did lead to more stable economic systems. He seemed to think differently that just having currencies being backed by precious metals was not the answer.

With a name like Rothschild, he has to know what he is talking about, right? In any case, he knows more about it than I do. I am using him as a mentor to get a better feel for the subject.
Lakey

 

[Vinaire]

Lakey,

Have a look at this page . . . post #1041
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?p=287511&highlight=fractal#post287511

Also, you should love the videos of the physics course at www.learner.org

Face, this is also on your interest line.

It got neglected as in no response when posted last August. Ah well, it was before its time

Rog

Search "fractal" on the "Oh! God!!" thread. Vin was very much aware of this subject already.

[I hate this needless whining and wanting of credit.]

My personal policies are as follows:

(1) Investigate, observe and learn... no experience is small or not worth examining.
(2) State my truth as clearly as possible to get feedback from others.
(3) Observe and learn from the feedback. Modify my truth and not keep it fixed unnecessarily.
(4) Never get into an argument on the feedback.
(5) Maintain integrity as to the perception and statement of truth despite agreement or disagreement.
(6) Always look, and encourage others to look.
(7) Ignore those who deal with blame, make wrong and whining. They have other fish to fry than an honest discussion.

.

 

[lkwdblds]

Rog, you are preaching to the choir!

Seeing talk here about Europe's financial woes, I thought I'd give you folks in the good old US of A a heads up on your own back yard

Below is one of many reports I see of local municipalities doing the bankruptcy dance.

Bankruptcy talk spreads among Calif. muni officials
Jim Christie
Thu May 27, 2010 4:51pm EDT



More at: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64Q6CQ20100527

This summer we are going to see a confluence of events (economic reports and fiance/stock market actions) that are going shock the shit out of folks.

Rog

Rog, you are preaching to the choir. I grew up here in the 50's when the "Yankee dollar" was unassailable as the standard of all currencies, the USA was loved throughout the non communist world and our country looked like it would remain numero uno in the world for centuries to come.

Sure we all knew what happened to ancient Rome but the 20th century had learned from the past and would not make the same mistakes which Rome made.

In my humble opinion, since the death of JFK, this country has been going downhill. The freedoms wich we had are eroding away and quickly to boot. Now with the internet and cable news, every day reveals various insanities being implemented by politiicians which are tearing down this country.

It may be an over simplification but the common thread of all of the mistakes seems to be an urge or hunger to "reward the downstats". This is one area where I think Hubbard had it right, when you reward downstats and non production, that is what you get. Another platform of self destruction is the notion that everyone and everything and every system is equally valid. We are all equal, there is no good and no bad in absolute terms. A couple of generations of this type of thinking and a civilization or a great country will disappear and that is what is happening with the USA.

When the USA was founded, it was an obscure nation with only 4 million population, say in 1790. Only 128 years later, in 1918 at the end of World War I, we were by far the strongest nation in the world. As we were growing, our Federal Government was small and unobtrusive, there was no income tax until 1913, no state taxes either. A person was pretty much free to do as they pleased as long as they did not break the law.

This country emerged from WWII even more powerful, perhaps with more power than any country had ever had in the history of the world, even including ancient Rome. In only 65 years, we are now reducing rapidly in stability and power and are economically heading into an abyss. I know this country is in trouble. As I say, you are preaching to the choir.
Lakey

 

[Enthetan]

Rog — somewhere in that CAFR I seem to remember the real estate assets at something like $198 billion (over $100B anyway).

Keep in mind that a lot of that are things like school buildings, their office buildings, parks, etc --- things that they can't just sell to raise a few bucks to cover an operating deficit.

 

[Leon]

Nah,

The deal was this. In the 1950's and 1960's folks did simple things, got gains, got enthused about it, talked to their friends and family . . . and were allowed to get on with it.

I boomed London and the UK in 1967-8 by working with my FSMs on that basis.

Life was simple . . . you could do what you believed in and get on with it. Scientology was fun.

Hell, I even got sleepy old England going to the extent that Manchester, Birmingham and Brighton missions/orgs got started on my watch by my FSMs.

Then . . . the shit hit the fan . . . . the Sea Org know-it-alls arrived to "put in ethics," and "standard tech!"

And suddenly orgs and missions were being managed from above and told what to do. Even in 1968 I had to Job Endanger Chit an idiot from GOWW for trying to issue me stupid orders. It got worse with the SO and their missions. At least the GO followed lines and the form of an org . . . the SO Missionaire had total, personal, total ethics power . . . . and boy, did that get used to screw things up.

Hubbard's goof was that he did what he said should not be done . . . he by-passed the guys on the front lines doing a good job with the SO management from the top deal . . . . and you know what happens when you run a by-pass on an area/terminal continuously . . . it's in the tech . . . you put it in danger and eventually into non-existence!



RogerB

This is correct.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

a mensch, who just totally blew it

What it means to be a mensch, even when you have just fucked someone over really badly:

Robbed! Blown call costs Armando Galarraga a perfect game
By 'Duk


It was a bang-bang play that left two victims dead.
The first was the masterful perfect game bid of Detroit Tigers pitcher Armando Galarraga(notes).
The second was the reputation of Major League umpire Jim Joyce.
Galarraga will likely move on with his major league career with the stinging Harvey Haddix-type knowledge that only one of the worst blown calls in baseball history prevented him from becoming the 21st pitcher to throw a perfect game — and, even more incredibly — the third perfecto this season and second in four nights.
You can't say the same for Joyce, a 23-year veteran who coupled his name with Don Denkinger when he inexplicably called Cleveland's Jason Donald(notes) safe at first with an infield hit. Replays clearly showed that Galarraga's foot beat Donald to the bag by a full step and Tigers manager Jim Leyland chewed Joyce out — deservedly so — both directly after the play and right after Galarraga retired the next Indians batter for what basically amounted to a 28-out perfect game.
Unreal.
Watch the controversial play here
It's not hard to see why Joyce's Wikipedia page was vandalized within seconds or why FireJimJoyce.com sprung up soon after that.
Galarraga was cooler than you or I might have been, but even Joyce knew he screwed up big time.
"I just cost that kid a perfect game," Joyce said afterward. "I thought he beat the throw. I was convinced he beat the throw, until I saw the replay."
“I don’t blame them a bit or anything that was said. I would’ve said it myself if I had been Galarraga. I would’ve been the first person in my face, and he never said a word to me.”
Joyce is only human and you can bet that this call will spur another heated debate over expanded instant replay in baseball that might actually go somewhere. (It should.)
Joyce will also get plenty of rightful criticism over why he was ruling such a close play safe considering the circumstances. Yes, tie does go to the runner ... except when there is no actual tie and there's a perfect game on the line.

But what's done is done and Joyce's latest black eye for his profession prevented the following from occurring:
• Fewest pitches (88) in a perfect game since Addie Joss' 74 in 1908
• Shortest perfect game (1:44) since Koufax's 1:43 in 1965
• The third perfect game in the 2010s, which would have put them one behind the 1990s for most perfect games thrown in a decade — one year into it.
Don Denkinger? You have company.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=8616789