The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[FoTi]

FoTi, my Love,

It will come about But do keep on me about it

Currently I'm up to my eyebrows on things in Oz, and then there is the live questions raised by DulloldFart and CarmelO atop here to clean up; and Virginia is on me about our business too much all at once.

So hang in there, you'll get your money's worth

R

I'm hangin'. It's just that I like the stuff you write so much that it makes me hungry for more.

 

[Leon]

Roger, that "BASIC CHRONIC MOOD, BLACKNESS, STUPIDITY and CONFUSION HANDLING" article you posted - it looks really interesting, but allow me a few questions to which I would appreciate an answer.

Is it intended to be run as a solo session or does one work with an auditor?

How does the auditor (solo or not) decide whether to run something or not? i.e. by which standard is the decision made whether it is a sane idea or whether it needs to be run out?

So if you had two preclears and one said abortions are a woman's personal choice and the other says abortion is murder - which one would you run out? Both? Then what viewpoint is regarded as the sane one?

It looks very much like False Data Stripping - is this the Kn method by which that is done? If so, and if it is done by an auditor and not solo, then why has Kn not simply stayed with the original HRD approach which worked like dynamite?

I'm really interested and would appreciate your response.

Thanks.

 

[lkwdblds]

Follow ups for Roger, Paul, and the thread in general.

ON THE PAPERDRIVE PORTION OF ONE OF MY LAST POSTS:
General post to all interested parties

I worked out a solution which was proper at the time and that would have been to ride with Sandy and his Dad to school in their truck, go to my Room 6 area with them and try and find Sandy's stacks and move them to Room 8. As I started in mocking up doing that, I realized that I did do something very similar and these pictures started turning on of the schools chain link fence on the West perimeter of the school and me, Sandy and Mr. Rosen (Fred) all looking for Sandy's papers. Every day I walked to school, about 3/4 mile with my best friend Larry Alger but I think I called Larry and told him an emergency came up and I had to go to school early. I sort of jogged to school and had about 30 minutes before the bell would ring to start class and I made a bee-line to the paper drive area. I immediately saw Mr. Rosen's truck. Sandy and Mr. Rosen were asking various teachers what room I was in but no teacher they asked knew the answer. I ran over to them and told them room 6 and the three of us went to the room 6 area. Los Angeles then had 4 newspapers, The L.A. Times, the L.A. Examiner and the Herald Express ( both Hearst papers) and the little L.A. Daily News, a liberal independent paper. The Rosens and my family both took the Daily News. We nosed around amongst stacks and stacks of bundled newspapers and really could not figure out which ones were Sandy's so a teacher just asked how many bundles Sandy brought and we answered three and she suggested we just take three stacks off the pile and take them over to Room 8's pile. Sandy and his Dad did just that and the situation between me and Sandy cleared right up. We were again each others second best friend. This is all true and actually happened.

However, Sandy did not apologize for insisting that I took his papers on purpose and lied about it! This is important to the resolution of the charge. Another thing was that the situation between me and my Dad never got handled. I can see that those two factors hold the incident in place for me.

Its so easy to handle Sandy's apologizing to me, just a simple mock up does the trick. He would say he was sorry that he accused me of stealing plus lying and I would accept his apology and we would just start playing some game or something and no charge would have endured. The hard thing to see is how to handle my Dad from the viewpoint of being an 8 year old. He was a good Dad and a really nice man, most of the time. I loved him very much and had been taught to be courteous to all adults but especially one's parents. Being a child of 8, it never dawned on me to single him out for a one on one boy to man talk. I BELIEVE THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAD TO HAPPEN TO FULLY HANDLE THIS INCIDENT!!

Junior Lakey says to his Dad, "Dad, I have to talk to you man to man." Pop agrees and I say, Dad I love you very much but I have to tell you that I think you did the wrong thing today when you ignored my request not to take Sandy's papers. Just because I am a kid, it doesn't mean that when I make a promise to another kid, I don't have to keep my word. You and Mom are raising me to be honest and tell the truth and I am trying to do that so please look at it that way, you were making me break my promise to my friend Sandy. I still love you just as much as before but I just had to tell you this.

I think my parents would have tripped out and been so proud of me. Rather than insult my Dad, I just think it could have been presented to him by me at age 8 in a way where he learned something and did not feel that I had disrespected him and his pride in me and my Mom's pride too would have both swelled. They would have told all their friends what I had said.

As an anticlimax to a now handled incident, as the incident is currently discharging, I thought of another equally valid but less dramatic handling and that would have been to simply check with my Dad first and make sure it was okay with him if Sandy left his stacks of old newspapers in our garage over night.

THIS SECOND HANDLING WOULD HAVE PREVENTED THE INCIDENT FROM EVER OCCURING, AND THE FIRST HANDLING MENTIONED WOULD HAVE TOTALLY REHABILITATED IT. This brings up another point and I offer it out to you all as a topic of discussion.

IS IT BETTER TO HAVE A NEGATIVE INCIDENT WITH CONFLICT AND MENTAL CHARGE AND MASS AND THEN REPAIR IT FULLY OR IS IT BETTER TO MAKE SURE THE NEGATIVE INCIDENT DID NOT HAPPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE?

To be or not to be, that is the question? One pulls in some strife and conflict, works his way through it, going through a lot of bad feelings and travail, and is able to master the situation and rehab all the damages done to himself and others involved and at the end, everyone seems to have learned something and be stronger than they were before the incident started.

Isn't this or some variation of it, what we are all about and why we are here or is the optimum game never to make a mistake and get into any trouble?
What say you?
Lakey

P.S. This post is long and meaty and deserves stand alone status plus it covers what I wanted to say to Roger. What I want to say to Paul I'll put in a separte post.

 

[lkwdblds]

Comments to Paul

Paul, as you may know, I registered wtih you this afternoon on your site. Two things. I stumbled onto psycho drama in early 1974 after leaving the Sea Org. Across the street from my Dad's construction office in Long Beach there was a psyco drama studio. One day I got the nerve to go in and talk to them. They put on a sample session. They took a guy from the audience and were able to coax some sort of hang up out of him and find an incident he remembered where this hang up was in play. They then had 4 or so of their staff play various roles of people in the incident, while a fifth person, the head instructor played sort of the guys conscience. Perhaps someone else played the good side of his conscience and the instructor played the bad side. I remember the instructor was a very good actor, very funny.

The Instructor would be hovering about the guys face saying things like, "Go ahead and kiss her, just do it now while you have the chance. Meanwhile some of the actors were playing out the other persona roles in the incident and the cautious side of the conscience was telling the guy not to kiss the girl. The instructor was really funny the way he was selling the patient the concept of doing aggressive bold actions. They were acting for 15 to 20 minutes and then the instructor announced an End Phenomena. I was a Dianetic auditor of course and I did not think the guy had EP'ed on the incident quite yet. They were on the right track and if they had continued another 5 minutes, I think he would have had a cognition (epiphany). Instead, the guy only had mild Good Indicators.

The lead instructor than did an analysis with the guy in front of the audience of about 15 people. Almost the entire audience were students from Long Beach City College which was only 2 blocks away. He started saying things, sort of evaluating a little for the patient and the patient would smile a little and say things like, I guess you are right or yeah, that's a good point, it makes a lot of sense. His smile widened and he was mildly happy with his session.

I thought it was a semi workable technique. I thought their assessment of what to run could have been a little better and that they ended off a little too early but they definitely had a mental technique there that had some validity. Actually, I did not realize that this psychodrama was potential cutting edge tech, a form of creative processing and processing from a point of view of cause. Only yesterday did I realize this from Roger's comments. Psychodrama was basically a "this lifetime' therapy. I talked to a staff member after the session and asked if past lives ever came up and I was told, no. The techniques they were using could easily have caused a guy to pull in back track phenomena. I think in Idenics, John Galusha and Goldz are doing a form of non itsa type processing where you as is something from a point of cause at the time when an incident forms.

Paul, I think I will have to Skype you tomorrow. I believe in England you are 9 hours ahead of us. Maybe I will try it tomorrow between 10:00 AM and noon. It was just too complicated for me to follow the written instructions which you had, I need to be coached a bit. I really like some of the things you are doing and I want to try them out and also want to give you a little publicity and promotional assistance, so you will probably get Skyped by me tomrorow.
Lakey

 

[Dulloldfart]

Paul, as you may know, I registered wtih you this afternoon on your site.

I have two robo- sites. PaulsRobot uses Rub & Yawn a lot, and RoboCounsellor uses conventional (more or less) counselling techniques only (no creative processing). I would suggest PaulsRobot as a more useful first whack at robo- auditing. RoboCounsellor is designed to appeal more to people with no familiarity with Scn.

If you have never done *any* Rub & Yawn auditing, I would suggest getting a session from my main YouTube video ("watch first" is in the title) at http://www.youtube.com/user/yawnguy. If you want a text-only version, check out www.yawnmachine.com.

The UK is usually 8 hours ahead of California. That changes for two weeks at the summer-time (daylight saving time) switcheroo as the changeover date differs a bit for the two countries.

I'll look forward to our Skype chat.

Paul

 

[thetanic]

Lakey, that psychodrama sounds like it could handle multiple people's charge at the same time if done right, but it's problematic getting it close enough to the actual incident to get the charge off, I'd guess.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Lakey, that psychodrama sounds like it could handle multiple people's charge at the same time if done right, but it's problematic getting it close enough to the actual incident to get the charge off, I'd guess.

I put a tabletop psychodrama module into RoboCounsellor. When I tried it out myself (if these things don't work for me I nuke them) I was staggered at how effective it was. That's my version that I found effective. I've never tried the original one — I imagine it is very hit and miss, as it depends on other people trying to mock up *your* incident and obviously it's going to be off the mark in many ways. The idea is several people act out one person's incident, with the psychologist/psychiatrist psychodrama expert being the "director".

Shortly after I unleashed my version, along with an internet press release, I got a phone call from Dr. John Casson, a *proper* psychodrama exponent in England, who had been told about it by a colleague. I thought he was going to complain about something or other, but he was actually pretty excited about it and we had a nice little chat. My hope to revolutionize the industry never took place though.

Paul

 

[Ted]

Personally, I had some really big "wins" in Scn and Processing. I also had some really bad shit happen...really bad shit. I've had really big "wins' outside of Scn and Auditing...and had some bad shit happen, too. It is my opinion that Scn Processing is a crap-shoot. I think Carmelo’s post re: “God” and God-like…loving your PC, etc. has great truth and wisdom.

I think that Scn Processing can open up shit that it can’t handle…I think it also “handles” shit that wasn’t there to begin with. I think it can titillate you and lull you into a position or state wherein you are the unknowing and willing “Host” for “Parasites”. .

Shermer’s stuff is excellent. It raises important issues. I think all of us are “exterior”. I think “being in one’s head” is an illusory perception. I think all of us are our own “Philosophic” machine. Without the brain, there is “meaning” but no “context”. Without our “Essence”—or whatever you want to call “It”—there is nothing but context and no deciphering of meaning. Context is meaningless noise without “Us”. With “Us” it is still noise, but “meaning” inters in—and that can get very confusing depending upon what parts of the noise are focused on or given attention by “Us”, OR accentuated by the “feed” from the brain. There is no “Universal Best or Only Tech” for each of “Us”…there is no “Universal Path or Way” for any of "Us”. But, without “Us”, all of “Us” are without meaning and “lost” in "context".

Face

I should preface anything I write, critical or in support of hubbard and scio, with the statement that I had marvelous gains and insights during my scio training and processing. The training was what it was. I accepted it without much Q&A. That's why I was able to move through my courses faster than most.

The auditing experience, watching so many different people, their responses, desires, upsets, ambitions, etc., was an education in of itself. My own auditing as a pc was fantastic! Well, not always. Had to get over some hurdles first, then it was fantastic.

It was 35 years ago when I had intensive auditing, and not much auditing with an auditor, intensive or otherwise, since then I might add. I have also had the desire and opportunity to give hubbard and scio a critical analysis since then, these past 20 years. If the system was as good as claimed it would have retained many, many good people who ultimately found it necessary or desirable to move on. That's an outpoint of major proportion: Unable to get and/or retain competent personnel. It's kind of like a Gross Auditing Error for Administrators.

My findings can be summarized in this simple metaphor: Doing scientology is like a gringo drinking the water in Mexico. You might quench your thirst without liability; you might get stuck with a lengthy and severe case of Montezuma's Revenge. Caveat emptor.

You see, the water is contaminated with hidden things.

On the horizon, an answer to Carmelo's question posted earlier re: expectations and entitlements.

 

[lkwdblds]

Maybe the "never" in never took place can be changed

I put a tabletop psychodrama module into RoboCounsellor. When I tried it out myself (if these things don't work for me I nuke them) I was staggered at how effective it was. That's my version that I found effective. I've never tried the original one — I imagine it is very hit and miss, as it depends on other people trying to mock up *your* incident and obviously it's going to be off the mark in many ways. The idea is several people act out one person's incident, with the psychologist/psychiatrist psychodrama expert being the "director".

Shortly after I unleashed my version, along with an internet press release, I got a phone call from Dr. John Casson, a *proper* psychodrama exponent in England, who had been told about it by a colleague. I thought he was going to complain about something or other, but he was actually pretty excited about it and we had a nice little chat. My hope to revolutionize the industry never took place though.

Paul

It seemed very hit and miss to me but they had the kernel of a very effective technique. That was 36 years ago. Do you know if any further development of the subject by psychiatrists and pysychologists has occurred over these decades? I did not pursue it because I was still very dedicated to C of S, was making regular freeloader debt payments and did not want to be attacked by C of S for squirreling or in any way supporting psychiatry.

Don't give up your hope to revolutionize the psychodrama industry just yet. When I am on this thread, I can see who is reading it at any given time and in the last couple of days, we have had as many as 8 guests read it at one time while I was the only ESMB member reading it. Yesterday we had 6 members and 4 guests at the same time or 10 readers simultaneously and I checked to see how many were reading all personal stories combined and it was 15. The 10 at once is the highest to date. I am now on Facebook and Heidrun Beer made friends with me and her wide circle of friends all made friends with me by the dozens. Also on Gier Isene's Scientology Forum, several started reading this thread from that. Heidrun is really well connected and brings over a huge Free Zone type of group including Song Bird, Geir, Ivy Magazine and all their readers.

I believe that Facebook offers a means to get one's message beyond the comfortable confines of being limited to only ESMB members.
Lakey

 

[lkwdblds]

Re: Top people committed to Hubbard's tech

I should preface anything I write, critical or in support of hubbard and scio, with the statement that I had marvelous gains and insights during my scio training and processing. The training was what it was. I accepted it without much Q&A. That's why I was able to move through my courses faster than most.

The auditing experience, watching so many different people, their responses, desires, upsets, ambitions, etc., was an education in of itself. My own auditing as a pc was fantastic! Well, not always. Had to get over some hurdles first, then it was fantastic.

It was 35 years ago when I had intensive auditing, and not much auditing with an auditor, intensive or otherwise, since then I might add. I have also had the desire and opportunity to give hubbard and scio a critical analysis since then, these past 20 years. If the system was as good as claimed it would have retained many, many good people who ultimately found it necessary or desirable to move on. That's an outpoint of major proportion: Unable to get and/or retain competent personnel. It's kind of like a Gross Auditing Error for Administrators.

My findings can be summarized in this simple metaphor: Doing scientology is like a gringo drinking the water in Mexico. You might quench your thirst without liability; you might get stuck with a lengthy and severe case of Montezuma's Revenge. Caveat emptor.

You see, the water is contaminated with hidden things.

On the horizon, an answer to Carmelo's question posted earlier re: expectations and entitlements.

Thanks Ted, for revealing the basics of your training and processing history. On the topic of so many people finding it necessary to move on, I am finding a surprising amount of top people who are staying with the tech out in the field.

Last Saturday I met Songbird and she is totally loyal to the auditing tech and also the Ethics tech. On Sunday I saw Purple Haze and she is still sold on LRH tech. Gier Isene who broke away less than a year ago, I believe, is still loyal to the tech and so it goes with so many of them. Trey Lotz, Diana Class 8, Pierre Ethier, etc. When Mayo left, he still was loyal to the tech as he knew it.

Usually when someone leaves, they are still loyal to the tech or major portions of the tech. I believed in the entire tech being the Gospel as recently as two years ago.

Outpoints in the Church are so rampant currently that Purple Haze, who still loves the tech, originated to me that if someone is staying in the C of S now it is indicative of a neurosis or a serious character flaw. Of course I heartedly agreed.

THE IDEAL ORG GAME???? LRH defines an Ideal Org in an HCOB. This HCOB has never been cancelled and it focuses on quality of tech being delivered, quality of the service and exchanging with the public in abundance. The physical building and poshness of the furnishings? Hubbard states that the building must be kept clean and pleasant to be in. There is not the slightest mention of Orgs looking like 5 Star Hotels or palaces.

SPEED OF DELIVERTY??? Hubbard heavily bashes the concept of boasting of speed of delivery and yet that is what is being promoted as one of the major reason to come to Flag.

READ YOUR KSW MINI PACK, TURN TO THE NEXT PAGE AND THEN WHAT? In today's C of S, you read your KSW mini pack as the first bulletins of every course and then turn the page and you immediately see violations to KSW every where you look. How can any intelligent person stay in this Organization no matter how good portions of the tech are? That is my point, discerning people have no choice but to leave. It is not always a veto of the validity of the tech but is rather a protest against the management structure.

I love the Gringo drinking contaminated water example! BTW, I have not been to Mexico in years. I asked a Latino friend recently if the water is still bad now in the 21st Century and he said no, the water is now safe to drink. I don't know for sure.

I'm looking forward to your comments on Expectations and Entitlements.
Lakey

 

[Dulloldfart]

Do you know if any further development of the subject by psychiatrists and pysychologists has occurred over these decades?

Depends what you mean by progress. I was explaining my method to this psychodrama professional: kinda like a clay representation (not clay demo) but using readily available objects (I was using full baked bean cans with plain paper wrapped around them with rough faces drawn on the paper). I would arrange them to approximate the scene I was recreating. I found — to my huge surprise at the time but not so surprising on reflection — that when I got my face next to the can representing me and looked in the direction of the other "person" in the incident, I suddenly snapped into the whole scene, like a revivification of it. I had "run" this scene many times before using different approaches, but this total immersion brought up new stuff.

There were real-world benefits from this session I did. It was a session regarding a girl I knew 40 years ago. I'd tried finding her online since 1996. but with no success. Within a few hours of that first psychodrama session:

1. I had heard from an old girlfriend who I hadn't been in comm with for 30 years, and didn't know where she was either;
2. I suddenly found the other girl online, through Facebook. She had started an account a month or so before. (I didn't check every week for her!)

Once you have re-enacted the incident a few times, you get the option of doing it in a bunch of different ways, which you can choose from as you wish. Each has its own page/section, with further explanation for each there. The choices for focus are: No focus particularly, just generally; Hidden or repressed aspects; Sensations; Emotions; Thoughts; Another viewpoint; Possibly imaginary aspects; Spiritual or cosmic aspects; Zoom in (time or space); Zoom out (time or space); A shock moment; What-if. . . ?; Future events and consequences; Different characters, events; Different time; Different place. So you can play around with the scene a great deal until it is cleaned up to your satisfaction.

-----

So anyway, that's my tech that I put together over a few days (although there is years of experience behind that). This professional guy, who does this for a living, is very proud of his invention in the area of miniature psychodrama, as it is called in the trade: it's the Communicube. Go ahead and click the link. There's a picture there of the thing. You can buy one for only £99. He says, "Using buttons and other miniature symbolic objects, patterns and stories emerge which can then prompt reflection and insight. Flexible and empowering, the structures are containers that enable people to explore aspects of self, their relationships with others and their view of the world." So that's some "professional" advance in the field, as opposed to my quick visitor's dip in and out. Oh, mine (it's one of the modules at RoboCounsellor) is free of charge, by the way.

Don't give up your hope to revolutionize the psychodrama industry just yet.

Oh, I haven't. I'm not concentrating on it, though, despite my honest opinion that this tabletop psychodrama is the biggest breakthrough in his field since its inception.

Paul

 

[RogerB]

Roger, that "BASIC CHRONIC MOOD, BLACKNESS, STUPIDITY and CONFUSION HANDLING" article you posted - it looks really interesting, but allow me a few questions to which I would appreciate an answer.

Is it intended to be run as a solo session or does one work with an auditor?

How does the auditor (solo or not) decide whether to run something or not? i.e. by which standard is the decision made whether it is a sane idea or whether it needs to be run out?

So if you had two preclears and one said abortions are a woman's personal choice and the other says abortion is murder - which one would you run out? Both? Then what viewpoint is regarded as the sane one?

It looks very much like False Data Stripping - is this the Kn method by which that is done? If so, and if it is done by an auditor and not solo, then why has Kn not simply stayed with the original HRD approach which worked like dynamite?

I'm really interested and would appreciate your response.

Thanks.

YOu can do it solo or you can run it for a client.

as to the rest of the post

YOu run what the client wants and is interested in.

ANd this is not Scn and has nothing to do with it. If you actually want to advance yourself, I recommend you end off on this thing of trying to make everything as Scn. Just look at the post and its tech for what it is. And, by the way, moods are not "data," and the R/D is in no way similar to false data stripping and does not even address nor go near the subject.

On the other hand, if you think Scn is absolutely the thing . . . . ignore my posts

R

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

From U.S. News and World Report

21 Things You Should Never Buy New


Monday June 28, 2010, 10:24 am EDT

If you're looking to get the most value for your dollar, it would do your wallet good to check out secondhand options. Many used goods still have plenty of life left in them even years after the original purchase, and they're usually resold at a fraction of the retail price, to boot. Here's a list of 21 things that make for a better deal when you buy them used.


1. DVDs and CDs: Used DVDs and CDs will play like new if they were well taken care of. Even if you wind up with a scratched disc and you don't want to bother with a return, there are ways to remove the scratches and make the DVD or CD playable again.

2. Books: You can buy used books at significant discounts from online sellers and brick-and-mortar used book stores. The condition of the books may vary, but they usually range from good to like-new. And of course, check out your local library for free reading material.

3. Video Games: Kids get tired of video games rather quickly. You can easily find used video games from online sellers at sites like Amazon and eBay a few months after the release date. Most video game store outlets will feature a used game shelf, as well. And if you're not the patient type, you can rent or borrow from a friend first to see if it's worth the purchase.

4. Special Occasion and Holiday Clothing: Sometimes you'll need to buy formal clothing for special occasions, such as weddings or prom. Most people will take good care of formal clothing but will only wear it once or twice. Their closet castouts are your savings: Thrift stores, yard sales, online sellers and even some dress shops offer fantastic buys on used formalwear.

5. Jewelry: Depreciation hits hard when you try to sell used jewelry, but as a buyer you can take advantage of the markdown to save a bundle. This is especially true for diamonds, which has ridiculously low resale value. Check out estate sales and reputable pawn shops to find great deals on unique pieces. Even if you decide to resell the jewelry later, the depreciation won't hurt as much.

6. Ikea Furniture: Why bother assembling your own when you can pick it up for free (or nearly free) on Craigslist and Freecycle? Summer is the best time to hunt for Ikea furniture--that's when college students are changing apartments and tossing out their goodies.

7. Games and Toys: How long do games and toys remain your child's favorite before they're left forgotten under the bed or in the closet? You can find used children's toys in great condition at moving sales or on Craigslist, or you can ask your neighbors, friends, and family to trade used toys. Just make sure to give them a good wash before letting junior play.

8. Maternity and Baby Clothes: Compared to everyday outfits that you can wear any time, maternity clothes don't get much wear outside the few months of pregnancy when they fit. The same goes for baby clothes that are quickly outgrown. You'll save a small fortune by purchasing gently used maternity clothes and baby clothes at yard sales and thrift stores. Like children's games and toys, friends and family may have baby or maternity clothing that they'll be happy to let you take off their hands.


9. Musical Instruments: Purchasing new musical instruments for a beginner musician is rarely a good idea. (Are you ready to pay $60 an hour for piano lessons?) For your little dear who wants to learn to play an instrument, you should see how long his or her interest lasts by acquiring a rented or used instrument to practice with first. Unless you're a professional musician or your junior prodigy is seriously committed to music, a brand new instrument may not be the best investment.

10. Pets: If you buy a puppy (or kitty) from a professional breeder or a pet store outlet, it can set you back anywhere from a few hundred dollars to several thousand dollars. On top of this, you'll need to anticipate additional fees and vet bills, too. Instead, adopt a pre-owned pet from your local animal shelter and get a new family member, fees, and vaccines at a substantially lower cost.

11. Home Accent: Pieces Home decorating pieces and artwork are rarely handled on a day-to-day basis, so they're generally still in good condition even after being resold multiple times. If you like the worn-out look of some decor pieces, you can be sure you didn't pay extra for something that comes naturally with time. And don't forget, for most of us, discovering a true gem at a garage sale is 90% of the fun!

12. Craft Supplies: If you're into crafting, you probably have a variety of different supplies left over from prior projects. If you require some additional supplies for your upcoming project, then you can join a craft swap where you'll find other crafty people to trade supplies with. If you have leftovers, be sure to donate them to your local schools.

13. Houses: You're typically able to get better and more features for your dollar when you purchase an older home rather than building new. Older houses were often constructed on bigger corner lots, and you also get architectural variety in your neighborhood if the houses were built or remodeled in different eras.

14. Office Furniture: Good office furniture is built to withstand heavy use and handling. Really solid pieces will last a lifetime, long after they're resold the first or second time. A great used desk or file cabinet will work as well as (or better than) a new one, but for a fraction of the cost. With the recession shutting down so many businesses, you can easily find lots of great office furniture deals.

15. Cars: You've probably heard this before: Cars depreciate the second you drive them off of the dealership's lot. In buying a used car, you save money on both the initial cost and the insurance. It also helps to know a trusty mechanic who can check it over first. This way, you'll be aware of any potential problems before you make the purchase.

16. Hand Tools: Simple tools with few moving parts, like hammers, hoes and wrenches, will keep for decades so long as they are well-made to begin with and are well-maintained. These are fairly easy to find at neighborhood yard or garage sales. If you don't need to use hand tools very often, an even better deal is to rent a set of tools or borrow them from a friend.

17. Sports Equipment: Most people buy sports equipment planning to use it until it drops, but this rarely happens. So when sports equipment ends up on the resale market, they tend to still be in excellent condition. Look into buying used sporting gear through Craigslist and at yard sales or sports equipment stores.

18. Consumer Electronics: I know most folks like shiny new toys, but refurbished electronic goods are a much sweeter deal. Consumer electronics are returned to the manufacturer for different reasons, but generally, they'll be inspected for damaged parts, fixed, tested, then resold at a lower price. Just make sure you get a good warranty along with your purchase.

19. Gardening Supplies: This is an easy way for you to save money, and all you need to do is be observant. Take a look outdoors and you'll likely find such gardening supplies as mulch, wood, and even stones for free or vastly reduced prices. Used garden equipment and tools are also common goods at yard sales.

20. Timeshares: Buying timeshares isn't for everyone, but if you decide that it suits your lifestyle, purchasing the property as a resale would be a better deal than buying it brand new: on average, you'll save 67 percent on the price for a comparable new timeshare. If you're new to timeshare ownership, give it a test run first by renting short term.

21. Recreational Items: It's fairly easy to find high ticket recreational items like campers, boats, and jet skis being resold. Oftentimes, they're barely used at all. As long as they're in safe, working condition, they'll make for a better value when purchased used than new.

Lynn Truong is the co-founder and Deals Editor of Wise Bread, a blog dedicated to helping readers live large on a small budget. Wise Bread's book, 10,001 Ways to Live Large on a Small Budget, debuted as the #1 Money Management book on Amazon.com.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

what I did

There was a time when effectively all of Alan's basic processes were on the Kn website and freely available to all to down load and use . . . . so much for those who criticize him for "wanting money" for his work

If you folks want to get the early draft versions of many of his processes, as presented to those interested, go here:
ftp://ftp.lightlink.com/pub/archive/acw/

The thing to know about Basic Chronic Moods is that one continues to encounter them in all new areas of case (also in all new cases or newbies)

Note this point in Alan's write up. I am routinely colliding with them as I move up into new areas of case. There are tech reasons for this that I'll not delve into in this post, but I do point this out to convey the truth and reality that, until one is totally free from all case one will likely continue to collide with basic chronic moods personally, and in clients/PCs until they are all the way out.

I'll leave you sweet dears to format the following . . . time for the Ozzie Senate

Rog
________________________________________

BASIC CHRONIC MOOD, BLACKNESS, STUPIDITY
and CONFUSION HANDLING​

When entering a new case or a new area of case, the first thing the client will run into is a fixed mood level, blackness, stupidity or confusion in that area. Often, these may manifest similar to a mass but they usually do not fully resolve with mass handling as they are not masses.

To handle, all areas are to be run on the following process:

1. “Connected to (area), what mood level did you go into?”
Get the mood.
2. “When was that?”
3. “What is its duration?”
4. “What is its weight?”
5. “What is its temperature?”
6a. “Did it occupy any space?”
b. “What space?”
c. “Any other space?” Repeat to get all spaces.
7a. “Is there a blackness?”
If yes, ask:
b. “Describe it.”
c. “Is there any other color?”
If no, ask:
d. “What is its color?”
8a. “Is there a stupidity?”
b. “Describe it.”
9a. “Is there a confusion?”
b. “Describe it.”
10a. “Is there an unconsciousness?”
b. “Describe it.”
11a. “Is there a loss?”
b. “Describe it.”
12a. “Is there a tiredness?”
b. “Describe it.”
13a. “What part of the (mood) are you unwilling to experience?”
b. “Describe it exactly.”
c. “Experience it.”
d. “Is there any other part of ((mood) you are unwilling to experience?” If yes, b. & c.
14a. “Connected to that area and that mood, what are you willing to be responsible for?”
b. “Connected to that area and that mood, what would you rather not be responsible for?”
Repeat a & b over and over to cause indicators.
Then repeat 1 to 13 over on the area until all fixed moods, blackness, stupidities and confusions are handled and the being can fully occupy the area and space and act in a high mood level.
The first areas this process needs be run on are:
(Each area should be broken into sub-areas as needed.)
Each Zone Ability to know Communications Empathy
Ethics Action Utilization of Power Effectiveness
Size of Games Confidence Level Self Accomplishment
Interface Future Success Potential

I used the outline above last night (Europe's morning) on my PC across the pond.

I asked about unwilling to experience? and got a grief / lost thread. Getting lost and going into grief. Basically, I ran it book one style with "experience fully the emotions" and went earlier similar, earlier similar until we found a huge grief charge. Parental abuse. Tears had never flowed before. It was like Niagara Falls. I'll know better how much this helped in a couple of days.

I've always liked talking tech. I learn best by listening / reading and then applying. Thank you Roger.

 

[RogerB]

I used the outline above last night (Europe's morning) on my PC across the pond.

I asked about unwilling to experience? and got a grief / lost thread. Getting lost and going into grief. Basically, I ran it book one style with "experience fully the emotions" and went earlier similar, earlier similar until we found a huge grief charge. Parental abuse. Tears had never flowed before. It was like Niagara Falls. I'll know better how much this helped in a couple of days.

I've always liked talking tech. I learn best by listening / reading and then applying. Thank you Roger.

Nice. Yes this stuff is for using and doing . . . . not for talking about or "discussing" with irrelevant questioning about.

Question I have of you is, what was the Basic Chronic Mood you began with, was it "Grief"?

In any event there is a distinction between a mood/basic chronic mood and a mass.

Alan described/defined moods rather well. I defined and dealt with the what of a mass earlier.

A mood is, as Alan, said, a "kind of combination of emotion and attitude." (I'll coma back to that later.)

A mood is also the "carrier-wave" through and with which you express yourself; relate to people, things and the environment; and communicate.

A mood is actually you, you could say, in that form or expression of existence.

Now, when these expressions of you get hung up, stuck and become basic and chronic, they can feel rather solid and "massy."

By the way, I hope you clever people who want to really understand all this really made sure you have a clear concept of what those words basic and chronic mean

Masses are often co-created, or at least based on a counter-effort against something and/or hung up spiritual activity.

Moods are you expressing yourself

Sometimes, a mucky mood requires being undone by dealing with the "attitude" part of it with the "Right/Wrong" of the old Serfac handling and cleaning up consequences.

R

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

My area of concern comes from her insistence that your son sell his penthouse condo, which being pre-marriage property would be exclusively in your son's name. A home purchased post-marriage would be in both their names, and in the event of divorce in most states she would get it.

Over the years I've had too many friends get raped in court when the wife decides the marriage does not match her princess fantasy, and decides to try her luck at a second go-around while she's still cute enough to snag another guy.

The big danger sign is if she appears to have an inflated sense of entitlement and shows signs of being a narcissistic personality.

It is more small minded than narcissistic.

She is from the cult of "the way momma did it"

My wife has two fake knees, as a result of her wild and wooly past on a Triumph 500 motorcycle when she was a teen. She got broadsided by a little old man driving through a red light. Before Scientology, she got to experience exteriorization. At that time, she was a national record holder in 3 breast stoke events. The accident cancelled her Olympic dreams. She swam for Dick Smith in Phoenix.

Some years ago she got a well trained Tennessee Walker (horse). We'd go for long trail walks. All was peaceful. Then our daughter borrowed the horse. She took the horse, and did what we ( my daughter, her friends, and I) do. She kicked the horse into gear and galloped and jumped all over hell and gone. The next time my wife went to ride her horse, he ran away with her, and scared the piss out of her.

As a kid, she had jumped cactus on her horses, but as an adult, she was not interested in falling off and being crippled for life. As the saying goes, "How you gonna keep them down on the farm, after they've seen Paree?" This horse had gotten out of the mind set box of genteel riding, and had experienced the thrills of no holds barred cross country racing. He was never the same well trained horse again. My wife couldn't ride him.

This is what my wife and I do with children (and specifically our grandchildren). Our youngest daughter does it too with her nieces and nephews. We are the relatives from Hell.

One of our boys married a timid woman. When their kids were real little, we took them to San Juan Capistrano. My wife physically restrained our daughter in law, on the beach, while my daughter and I walked the little kids into the waves.

I freaked, the day the oldest boy wouldn't walk around the corner with me. He was afraid. They couldn't walk around Disneyland without being carried. The kids became television addicts at an early age (like their mom). He was afraid of fire in a fireplace.

We, my wife and I, decided to change things.

For two summers, we took them five days a week. We put them in lessons all day from morning to night. We didn't allow them to talk about TV shows or characters. On a daily basis, we ran their little bodies into the ground. By the time they were going home, they'd be demanding to go outside and play, to go to the park, etc. They turned their family upside down. The mom and dad stopped watching TV too.

By the time the oldest boy was six, I was taking him off cornices on black diamond ski runs. I was taking his mom down advance intermediate runs. The Christmas of the tsunami in Thailand, my daughter and I, along with the youngest girl got snowed in for a week. The wind blew at 60 MPH. We took that five year old girl all over the mountain all day every day. There was no mom with us to be afraid for her little daughter. She got to saying "faster" a lot.

Now those two kids do gymnastics, dance, karate. Their mom is a super soccer mom. The kids are in great shape. All ready this summer, the boy has done a whitewater trip with a buddy. They're at a gym or dance class every day. My daughter takes the girl riding once or twice a week.

Our son, their father climbed a couple thousand feet in Yosemite with me, when he was 12. The kids are now, right on track.

The three year old twins, whose mom we are now pushing the envelope on, are getting our (trademarked) grandparents from Hell treatment.

Their mom's mom watches court TV while keeping them in the living room with her when babysitting.

We take them into creeks, to the beach, into the ocean. They now know how to get on and off the trampoline by themselves. We have a jungle gym (which is a spaceship this week), swings, bars, we do bonfires that they help build. We feed them vegetarian, non Cheetos foods.

Grandparents from Hell.

But the question I'd like to know is:

I deliberately set out to find, marry, and have kids with a woman who was a doer, a class Vlll, a Hell raiser, not boxed in a little mold.

My mother was boxed in a little mold. I didn't like it. My father took me rock climbing, working with him, and treated me like an adult. That was what I wanted for my kids - lots of knowledge and hands on experiences. My father had the fastest car at Monterey High when he was growing up. He wasn't ever in a little box.

Why have our boys picked women who fit in little boxes?

What did we miss in our raising them?

It baffles me completely.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Nice. Yes this stuff is for using and doing . . . . not for talking about or "discussing" with irrelevant questioning about.

Question I have of you is, what was the Basic Chronic Mood you began with, was it "Grief"?

yes, then it was lost, as a different look at the same emotion, not as an adjective, but as a different word describing the same emotion or mood.

In any event there is a distinction between a mood/basic chronic mood and a mass.

Alan described/defined moods rather well. I defined and dealt with the what of a mass earlier.

A mood is, as Alan, said, a "kind of combination of emotion and attitude." (I'll coma back to that later.)

A mood is also the "carrier-wave" through and with which you express yourself; relate to people, things and the environment; and communicate.

A mood is actually you, you could say, in that form or expression of existence.

Now, when these expressions of you get hung up, stuck and become basic and chronic, they can feel rather solid and "massy."

By the way, I hope you clever people who want to really understand all this really made sure you have a clear concept of what those words basic and chronic mean

Masses are often co-created, or at least based on a counter-effort against something and/or hung up spiritual activity.

Moods are you expressing yourself

Sometimes, a mucky mood requires being undone by dealing with the "attitude" part of it with the "Right/Wrong" of the old Serfac handling and cleaning up consequences.

R

I finally understood the difference in what I need to audit.

I know it is a trite statement, but knowledge is good.

 

[Dulloldfart]

Why have our boys picked women who fit in little boxes?

What did we miss in our raising them?

It baffles me completely.

Have you asked them? Maybe they wanted some "balance," but I don't know.

I have another answer that includes the idea that you didn't miss anything at all, but I'll save it for a later post.

Paul

 

[lkwdblds]

Roll reversals going on here?

It is more small minded than narcissistic.

She is from the cult of "the way momma did it"

My wife has two fake knees, as a result of her wild and wooly past on a Triumph 500 motorcycle when she was a teen. She got broadsided by a little old man driving through a red light. Before Scientology, she got to experience exteriorization. At that time, she was a national record holder in 3 breast stoke events. The accident cancelled her Olympic dreams. She swam for Dick Smith in Phoenix.

Some years ago she got a well trained Tennessee Walker (horse). We'd go for long trail walks. All was peaceful. Then our daughter borrowed the horse. She took the horse, and did what we ( my daughter, her friends, and I) do. She kicked the horse into gear and galloped and jumped all over hell and gone. The next time my wife went to ride her horse, he ran away with her, and scared the piss out of her.

As a kid, she had jumped cactus on her horses, but as an adult, she was not interested in falling off and being crippled for life. As the saying goes, "How you gonna keep them down on the farm, after they've seen Paree?" This horse had gotten out of the mind set box of genteel riding, and had experienced the thrills of no holds barred cross country racing. He was never the same well trained horse again. My wife couldn't ride him.

This is what my wife and I do with children (and specifically our grandchildren). Our youngest daughter does it too with her nieces and nephews. We are the relatives from Hell.

One of our boys married a timid woman. When their kids were real little, we took them to San Juan Capistrano. My wife physically restrained our daughter in law, on the beach, while my daughter and I walked the little kids into the waves.

I freaked, the day the oldest boy wouldn't walk around the corner with me. He was afraid. They couldn't walk around Disneyland without being carried. The kids became television addicts at an early age (like their mom). He was afraid of fire in a fireplace.

We, my wife and I, decided to change things.

For two summers, we took them five days a week. We put them in lessons all day from morning to night. We didn't allow them to talk about TV shows or characters. On a daily basis, we ran their little bodies into the ground. By the time they were going home, they'd be demanding to go outside and play, to go to the park, etc. They turned their family upside down. The mom and dad stopped watching TV too.

By the time the oldest boy was six, I was taking him off cornices on black diamond ski runs. I was taking his mom down advance intermediate runs. The Christmas of the tsunami in Thailand, my daughter and I, along with the youngest girl got snowed in for a week. The wind blew at 60 MPH. We took that five year old girl all over the mountain all day every day. There was no mom with us to be afraid for her little daughter. She got to saying "faster" a lot.

Now those two kids do gymnastics, dance, karate. Their mom is a super soccer mom. The kids are in great shape. All ready this summer, the boy has done a whitewater trip with a buddy. They're at a gym or dance class every day. My daughter takes the girl riding once or twice a week.

Our son, their father climbed a couple thousand feet in Yosemite with me, when he was 12. The kids are now, right on track.

The three year old twins, whose mom we are now pushing the envelope on, are getting our (trademarked) grandparents from Hell treatment.

Their mom's mom watches court TV while keeping them in the living room with her when babysitting.

We take them into creeks, to the beach, into the ocean. They now know how to get on and off the trampoline by themselves. We have a jungle gym (which is a spaceship this week), swings, bars, we do bonfires that they help build. We feed them vegetarian, non Cheetos foods.

Grandparents from Hell.

But the question I'd like to know is:

I deliberately set out to find, marry, and have kids with a woman who was a doer, a class Vlll, a Hell raiser, not boxed in a little mold.

My mother was boxed in a little mold. I didn't like it. My father took me rock climbing, working with him, and treated me like an adult. That was what I wanted for my kids - lots of knowledge and hands on experiences. My father had the fastest car at Monterey High when he was growing up. He wasn't ever in a little box.

Why have our boys picked women who fit in little boxes?

What did we miss in our raising them?

It baffles me completely.

Very interesting, Carmelo. Most of the time on Earth the Grandparents are old codgers basking in the sun in rockingchairs and the kid's parents are the Jet Set yuppies. In your family, you and your wife are the "swingers" and the Son's Mother's are stick in the muds. Why did it happen, how did it happen? I really can't say. I did open my "air waves" a bit to pick up any theta signals floating around in my space which might contain part of the answer. I found something which I'll throw at you and you let me know if it indicates.

Perhaps, you did not make it clear to your kids that the way you raised them was very special and very spiritual and that most other families do not raise their kids that way. In fact, most other families raise their kids in a boxed in,, catious manner calculated to minimize the occurance of an accident or of catching a cold or being kidnapped or if not that, they just stuck the kids in front of a TV set with cartoons playing so they, the parents, could carry on with their own personal interests without the kids interfering.

If this is true, then your kids may have assumed that the way you raised them was S.O.P., that everybody raised kids your way and so there was no need for your boys to seek a mate who had this virtue which you and your wife both had. By virtue of their assuming all Mom's were similar to their Mom, they felt their future wives would raise their kids the same way or if not that then they would know an even better way to raise them. That's my best shot at what has caused this non optimum situation to turn up for you and your wife.

Though I have never met you face to face, I know you pretty damn well now and this item resonates with me as having some validity in the situation you are finding yourself in. I am sticking my neck out here and could be completely off base. Even for Lakey, I don't like to stick my neck out this far but there it is, I owe it to you to do so, so please let me know if this item indicates to you.
Lakey

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Very interesting, Carmelo. Most of the time on Earth the Grandparents are old codgers basking in the sun in rockingchairs and the kid's parents are the Jet Set yuppies. In your family, you and your wife are the "swingers" and the Son's Mother's are stick in the muds. Why did it happen, how did it happen? I really can't say. I did open my "air waves" a bit to pick up any theta signals floating around in my space which might contain part of the answer. I found something which I'll throw at you and you let me know if it indicates.

Perhaps, you did not make it clear to your kids that the way you raised them was very special and very spiritual and that most other families do not raise their kids that way. In fact, most other families raise their kids in a boxed in,, catious manner calculated to minimize the occurance of an accident or of catching a cold or being kidnapped or if not that, they just stuck the kids in front of a TV set with cartoons playing so they, the parents, could carry on with their own personal interests without the kids interfering.

If this is true, then your kids may have assumed that the way you raised them was S.O.P., that everybody raised kids your way and so there was no need for your boys to seek a mate who had this virtue which you and your wife both had. By virtue of their assuming all Mom's were similar to their Mom, they felt their future wives would raise their kids the same way or if not that then they would know an even better way to raise them. That's my best shot at what has caused this non optimum situation to turn up for you and your wife.

Though I have never met you face to face, I know you pretty damn well now and this item resonates with me as having some validity in the situation you are finding yourself in. I am sticking my neck out here and could be completely off base. Even for Lakey, I don't like to stick my neck out this far but there it is, I owe it to you to do so, so please let me know if this item indicates to you.
Lakey

I think what you say could easily be quite correct.

I tend to take breathing air for granted, but there have been a number of times when I was tumbled by a wave, not even knowing which way was up, and was fighting for breath.