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Marthy Rathbun is a Human Being like you and me

Dulloldfart

Squirrel Extraordinaire
From http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/04/04/free-heber/:

Patty Pieniadz // April 5, 2010 at 11:47 am

haydn, I am an Ex Scientologist and critic of Scn. I’ve emailed you to help free Heber. I don’t have a lot of money but am willing to send you some to help in this effort. I’m not one of the Independents but I hope you will accept my help.

Thanks

mosey // April 5, 2010 at 12:44 pm

DO NOT SEND MONEY. WE DON’T WANT MONEY. WE WANT NAMES OF PEOPLE WHO ARE WILLING TO TAKE ACTION.

Note the context.

Paul
 

AnonKat

Crusader
From http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/04/04/free-heber/:

Patty Pieniadz // April 5, 2010 at 11:47 am

haydn, I am an Ex Scientologist and critic of Scn. I’ve emailed you to help free Heber. I don’t have a lot of money but am willing to send you some to help in this effort. I’m not one of the Independents but I hope you will accept my help.

Thanks

mosey // April 5, 2010 at 12:44 pm

DO NOT SEND MONEY. WE DON’T WANT MONEY. WE WANT NAMES OF PEOPLE WHO ARE WILLING TO TAKE ACTION.

Note the context.

Paul

Paul I love you so much right now you should duck for the lovebeams coming your way :flowers:
 

rhill

Patron with Honors
From http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/04/04/free-heber/:

Patty Pieniadz // April 5, 2010 at 11:47 am

haydn, I am an Ex Scientologist and critic of Scn. I’ve emailed you to help free Heber. I don’t have a lot of money but am willing to send you some to help in this effort. I’m not one of the Independents but I hope you will accept my help.

Thanks

mosey // April 5, 2010 at 12:44 pm

DO NOT SEND MONEY. WE DON’T WANT MONEY. WE WANT NAMES OF PEOPLE WHO ARE WILLING TO TAKE ACTION.

Note the context.

Paul

Dang, you're good. Kudos (thanks for pointing out a bug in my stuff :))
 

Zinjifar

Silver Meritorious Sponsor
Kinda makes you wonder though what 'action' they wanted. Free Heber Raids?

Nah.

Support for Marty? More likely

Zinj
 

byte301

Crusader
And all was good again in the land of Zinj :coolwink:

While you're on vacation maybe you can learn to internet.

And I don't think a year from ESMB is even close to long enough. Spend your time over at the shack and give us all a break.

Now...back to bunnies:

hbs275_125.gif
 

AnonKat

Crusader
While you're on vacation maybe you can learn to internet.

And I don't think a year from ESMB is even close to long enough. Spend your time over at the shack and give us all a break.

Now...back to bunnies:

hbs275_125.gif

NO U !

From http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/04/04/free-heber/:

Patty Pieniadz // April 5, 2010 at 11:47 am

haydn, I am an Ex Scientologist and critic of Scn. I’ve emailed you to help free Heber. I don’t have a lot of money but am willing to send you some to help in this effort. I’m not one of the Independents but I hope you will accept my help.

Thanks

mosey // April 5, 2010 at 12:44 pm

DO NOT SEND MONEY. WE DON’T WANT MONEY. WE WANT NAMES OF PEOPLE WHO ARE WILLING TO TAKE ACTION.

Note the context.

Paul
 

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
Nope I'm going to Markab

Hey AnonKat,

Stay strong, don't fret much about the 'hard on' some of these old guard farts are trying to jab you with...

They put on a good show but it's limited to the number of viagra caps they can swallow before their heart gives out. :p
 

Magoo

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ok, yes----I post occassionally on Marty's board. Some of you may wonder: Why?
Well, there's a little thing in the OSA manual called their bible, "The Art of War".
In it Sun Tzu says a few key things that OSA uses, all the time:
1) Master Sun
"Cause division amongst them" (page 54)
2) Cao Cao
"Send interlopers to cause rifts amongst them"
3) Meng Shi
"Strike at their gaps, attack when they are lax, don't let the enemy figure out how to prepare.This is why it is said in military operations that formlessness is the most effective. One of the great warrior-leaders said, "The most efficient of movements is the one that is unexpected; the best of plans is the one that is unknown".

Which is why I believe Anonymous has been so very successful. Also, once I noticed there was this huge
division amongst Critics, Marty and Anonymous, I looked at who that supported, and decided to try being in more communication, not less.

Does that mean we all need to agree? Hell no, and no, we won't either. However, can we all just agree to disagree, and keep our attentions focused on key issues we all agree on, such as the abuses of C of $? Imnsho--to me that's our best and most effective mode of operation. Even if you don't agree with this, my suggestion is try to post more FACTS about the organization known as the "church" of Scientology and their abuses that we all know, but MANY new people do not. People are leaving daily. They don't need to step out into this collision of views between people they thought were going to help them, or at least be supportive of them.
I speak from experience on this one....and I'm telling you, it's a VERY key time for people. They need you, or anyone they find safe. If it's ESMB or OCMB--fantastic. If it's WWP---also excellent. If that's Marty or Mike--that's great, too. They've helped a bunch of new people wake up and leave, and many speak out, also. Good for them! And on top of that, all (from all 4 groups) have helped educate *tons* of people about these very abuses. Yeah!

They're (new people) out, and that's #1 great. #2 is hopefully they'll feel safe enough to speak out.

For people calling each other criminals, please let me remind you of the 3 goals of the Top Secret OSA Int Internet gang, re the Net:
1) Distract off of any topic having to do with anything they don't want known.

I understand people *want* Marty and Mike to say more. Ok, fair enough. Do you think calling them criminals will motivate them to say more, or less?
Try to think of yourself in a similar position. Which would help you be motivated more?
I know for myself, at first I thought of M & M, and not really knowing them personally, just felt they were separate--as it is a bit of a closed group, or so it seemed. I realized I'd never even tried to communicate with that group---and I did, and it's been
far different than I thought. Then I really looked at my own personal views, and I have always said I am speaking out against the abuses, the Human Rights Violations of
C of $, which they all are against, also. I believe people have a right to believe whatever they want. The information is out there, and some shall look at it, some may never. I ~think~we all can at least agree that the abuses are # 1.


2) Degrade any and ALL activists exposing any thing they (DM and gang) don't want known.


Hello? Perhaps we've all gotten a bit blase' about Davey boy beating people up, but until this either STOPS or serious Justice occurs, it hasn't been said enough, imnsho. **Tons** of people have zero clue about this, so every TV show done is good for all of us.
(and unless you've done TV shows, my view is don't start calling others names or ragging on them for not doing enough). Try to keep in mind: We all unravel at different speeds.

3) Slime any public area, so people literally are embarrassed to even post there.


The above was told to me a few weeks before I quit that group, forever.

I hope that helps. While "in" C of $, at the next to the top, I found exclusion rampant, and it sucked.

I'm interested in inclusion, and connections.
I believe we all have things
we can share and it's important we respect each other,
and help each other. God knows we all have been through enough! May we have more of this: :gathering:>>>not this::fencing:

My love to you all.
:rose:
Tory/Magoo
 
Last edited:

KnightVision

Gold Meritorious Patron
Ok, yes----I post occassionally on Marty's board. Some of you may wonder: Why?
Well, there's a little thing in the OSA manual called their bible, "The Art of War".
In it Sun Tzu says a few key things that OSA uses, all the time:
1) Master Sun
"Cause division amongst them" (page 54)
2) Cao Cao
"Send interlopers to cause rifts amongst them"
3) Meng Shi
"Strike at their gaps, attack when they are lax, don't let the enemy figure out how to prepare.This is why it is said in military operations that formlessness is the most effective. One of the great warrior-leaders said, "The most efficient of movements is the one that is unexpected; the best of plans is the one that is unknown".

Which is why I believe Anonymous has been so very successful. Also, once I noticed there was this huge
division amongst Critics, Marty and Anonymous, I looked at who that supported, and decided to try being in more communication, not less.

Does that mean we all need to agree? Hell no, and no, we won't either. However, can we all just agree to disagree, and keep our attentions focused on key issues we all agree on, such as the abuses of C of $? Imnsho--to me that's our best and most effective mode of operation. Even if you don't agree with this, my suggestion is try to post more FACTS about the organization known as the "church" of Scientology and their abuses that we all know, but MANY new people do not. People are leaving daily. They don't need to step out into this collision of views between people they thought were going to help them, or at least be supportive of them.
I speak from experience on this one....and I'm telling you, it's a VERY key time for people. They need you, or anyone they find safe. If it's ESMB or OCMB--fantastic. If it's WWP---also excellent. If that's Marty or Mike--that's great, too. They've helped a bunch of new people wake up and leave, and many speak out, also. Good for them! And on top of that, all (from all 4 groups) have helped educate *tons* of people about these very abuses. Yeah!

They're (new people) out, and that's #1 great. #2 is hopefully they'll feel safe enough to speak out.

For people calling each other criminals, please let me remind you of the 3 goals of the Top Secret OSA Int Internet gang, re the Net:
1) Distract off of any topic having to do with anything they don't want known.

I understand people *want* Marty and Mike to say more. Ok, fair enough. Do you think calling them criminals will motivate them to say more, or less?
Try to think of yourself in a similar position. Which would help you be motivated more?
I know for myself, at first I thought of M & M, and not really knowing them personally, just felt they were separate--as it is a bit of a closed group, or so it seemed. I realized I'd never even tried to communicate with that group---and I did, and it's been
far different than I thought. Then I really looked at my own personal views, and I have always said I am speaking out against the abuses, the Human Rights Violations of
C of $, which they all are against, also. I believe people have a right to believe whatever they want. The information is out there, and some shall look at it, some may never. I ~think~we all can at least agree that the abuses are # 1.


2) Degrade any and ALL activists exposing any thing they (DM and gang) don't want known.


Hello? Perhaps we've all gotten a bit blase' about Davey boy beating people up, but until this either STOPS or serious Justice occurs, it hasn't been said enough, imnsho. **Tons** of people have zero clue about this, so every TV show done is good for all of us.
(and unless you've done TV shows, my view is don't start calling others names or ragging on them for not doing enough). Try to keep in mind: We all unravel at different speeds.

3) Slime any public area, so people literally are embarrassed to even post there.


The above was told to me a few weeks before I quit that group, forever.

I hope that helps. While "in" C of $, at the next to the top, I found exclusion rampant, and it sucked.

I'm interested in inclusion, and connections.
I believe we all have things
we can share and it's important we respect each other,
and help each other. God knows we all have been through enough! May we have more of this: :gathering:>>>not this::fencing:

My love to you all.
:rose:
Tory/Magoo

Thank you for posting this Tory. This really important. I have been flabbergasted in watching the avalanche of relentless criticism of Rinder since he did his TV interview. I still can't comprehend how near sighted some of these criticizers have become, not to realize that attacking Rinder at this point is playing right into OSA's hands. Dumbfounding really.
 

Thrak

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks Tory. I've been thinking about this since I saw yourself, the Headley's, Jeff Hawkins, Chuck Beatty etc. offering help and kind words over there and just felt it was the right way to go about it as well.

I think people here are making some excellent points about questions M&M need to answer and people need to know specifics since guys like me were never on staff and don't know what kind of stuff happened behind closed doors.

But that being said I think division amongst critics only benefits CofS and the constant attacks only cause those guys to ignore what's being said over here and give them no incentive to comply.

Just my opinion.
 

Type4_PTS

Diamond Invictus SP
Ok, yes----I post occassionally on Marty's board. Some of you may wonder: Why?
Well, there's a little thing in the OSA manual called their bible, "The Art of War".
In it Sun Tzu says a few key things that OSA uses, all the time:
1) Master Sun
"Cause division amongst them" (page 54)
2) Cao Cao
"Send interlopers to cause rifts amongst them"
3) Meng Shi
"Strike at their gaps, attack when they are lax, don't let the enemy figure out how to prepare.This is why it is said in military operations that formlessness is the most effective. One of the great warrior-leaders said, "The most efficient of movements is the one that is unexpected; the best of plans is the one that is unknown".

Which is why I believe Anonymous has been so very successful. Also, once I noticed there was this huge
division amongst Critics, Marty and Anonymous, I looked at who that supported, and decided to try being in more communication, not less.

Does that mean we all need to agree? Hell no, and no, we won't either. However, can we all just agree to disagree, and keep our attentions focused on key issues we all agree on, such as the abuses of C of $? Imnsho--to me that's our best and most effective mode of operation. Even if you don't agree with this, my suggestion is try to post more FACTS about the organization known as the "church" of Scientology and their abuses that we all know, but MANY new people do not. People are leaving daily. They don't need to step out into this collision of views between people they thought were going to help them, or at least be supportive of them.
I speak from experience on this one....and I'm telling you, it's a VERY key time for people. They need you, or anyone they find safe. If it's ESMB or OCMB--fantastic. If it's WWP---also excellent. If that's Marty or Mike--that's great, too. They've helped a bunch of new people wake up and leave, and many speak out, also. Good for them! And on top of that, all (from all 4 groups) have helped educate *tons* of people about these very abuses. Yeah!

They're (new people) out, and that's #1 great. #2 is hopefully they'll feel safe enough to speak out.

For people calling each other criminals, please let me remind you of the 3 goals of the Top Secret OSA Int Internet gang, re the Net:
1) Distract off of any topic having to do with anything they don't want known.

I understand people *want* Marty and Mike to say more. Ok, fair enough. Do you think calling them criminals will motivate them to say more, or less?
Try to think of yourself in a similar position. Which would help you be motivated more?
I know for myself, at first I thought of M & M, and not really knowing them personally, just felt they were separate--as it is a bit of a closed group, or so it seemed. I realized I'd never even tried to communicate with that group---and I did, and it's been
far different than I thought. Then I really looked at my own personal views, and I have always said I am speaking out against the abuses, the Human Rights Violations of
C of $, which they all are against, also. I believe people have a right to believe whatever they want. The information is out there, and some shall look at it, some may never. I ~think~we all can at least agree that the abuses are # 1.


2) Degrade any and ALL activists exposing any thing they (DM and gang) don't want known.

Hello? Perhaps we've all gotten a bit blase' about Davey boy beating people up, but until this either STOPS or serious Justice occurs, it hasn't been said enough, imnsho. **Tons** of people have zero clue about this, so every TV show done is good for all of us.
(and unless you've done TV shows, my view is don't start calling others names or ragging on them for not doing enough). Try to keep in mind: We all unravel at different speeds.

3) Slime any public area, so people literally are embarrassed to even post there.

The above was told to me a few weeks before I quit that group, forever.

I hope that helps. While "in" C of $, at the next to the top, I found exclusion rampant, and it sucked.

I'm interested in inclusion, and connections.
I believe we all have things
we can share and it's important we respect each other,
and help each other. God knows we all have been through enough! May we have more of this: :gathering:>>>not this::fencing:

My love to you all.
:rose:
Tory/Magoo

Tory, Thank-You for posting this........it's great! :yes: :happydance:
 

Alanzo

Bardo Tulpa
Thanks Tory. I've been thinking about this since I saw yourself, the Headley's, Jeff Hawkins, Chuck Beatty etc. offering help and kind words over there and just felt it was the right way to go about it as well.

I think people here are making some excellent points about questions M&M need to answer and people need to know specifics since guys like me were never on staff and don't know what kind of stuff happened behind closed doors.

But that being said I think division amongst critics only benefits CofS and the constant attacks only cause those guys to ignore what's being said over here and give them no incentive to comply.

Just my opinion.

I agree with your opinion.

In the CofS, there was a lock-down on any contrary information. If you found out contrary information - vital information that greatly informed people and could have helped people make better decisions, and you talked about that contrary information - then... well... we all know what happened to you.

The thing is, this contrary information about Marty and Mike is vital to making good decisions about the way forward in dealing with Scientology.

And so in making that contrary information available - with Scientology as the dominating context - you are still going to be accused by some people as "low-toned" or "DB", or "PTS" or "SP" or some form of that.

But I will never shut out contrary information ever again. I have learned my lesson on that. And so I see no reason to unlearn it just because Marty and Mike might be doing something positive for a change, while still hiding whatever it is that is their real end goal.

I agree that a unified front including critics, OG, Independents and even Scientologists is a much more pleasant way to go forward. But it's impossible given the players involved and the nature of Scientology itself.

Disagreement, controversy, and loud shouting are inevitable - and in my mind vital to a constructive result.

I'm very proud of Tory, and always have been ever since she got out in 2000, when Marty and Mike harassed her mercilessly, breaking up her decades long marriage and destroying her family, dragging her into court to try to make her into a criminal so they could dead agent her, as well as every thing else they could do to "shudder her into silence".

It's people like Tory who have stood up to the suppression of the Church of Scientology and warned the public of its abuses so that no one else could be harmed by them - despite the damage they caused her.

That she is writing and acting as she is, is a testament to her goodness, her intelligence, her resilience, and her high ideals.

She is a true leader.
 
And a great hugger and ravishingly good looking, too! :happydance:

Very proud to share the planet with Tory Magoo! :happydance:

:heartflower::hug::flowers2:

Great post, Tory...and great commentary, Al! :clap:
 
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