The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

THE BOOTSTRAP EFFECT
Spiritual beings seems to perceive that through interchange between two or more beings who do not have ALL the answers, each being can nevertheless pull the other being up by their bootsraps so to speak.

The apparency is that spiritual beings contain the answer to their questions within themselves but to get those answers to surface, a spiritual being needs to engage in counseling with another spiritual being where one being gets the other to rediscover what he already knows but can no longer contact.

Lakey

I want to take you to task on this part of your post a little bit. I'm not expert in what I'm about to say, but I think some others will be able to help me more completely conceptualize what I'm going to write here. And that is:

Christianity does not fit well with your statements above. My understanding is that the crux of christianity is that you give up your "id", "self determinism", "spiritual beingness" or whatever you want to call it - you give it up to the will of God, through the realization that Christ himself, personally "took it on the chin" for all of us not only in our "shared universe" but most importantly in our "own universes".

This is one of the most powerful concepts that Anyone, Anywhere has ever come up with and is at the root of the absolutely wonderful world we live in now where we now have the time and space to find and erradicate inequities and other outpoints in our lives.

In other words, GIVE UP your spiritual "boot-strapping". Prayer, reflection and meditation about Christ's sacrifice is time well spent.

As I said, I'm not expert, but by being in Scientology for 31 years, I threw a lot of babies out with the bathwater and I'm now coming around to getting them back in!! Ha ha.

Just saying.

 

[gfyork]

Thanks, John (TMT), for another 'episode'.

I've been off ESMB for about a week and began yesterday to catch up. Your OP was among the first I read and left me eager for more. Perhaps you can imagine my dismay when, subsequently, I saw you discouraged by the initial response and contemplating withdrawal. I was heartened to see the second (partial) episode and then this supplemental post and I venture now to hope you will persevere.

By now you have noticed that many are as eager as I to hear, "The rest of the story," and too, there are those who'd rather you didn't post it at all. Some would like to see it but in much smaller increments; others would rather get it all at once.

I fall into the "All at once" bunch and following a hint that it was all available on your 'wonder' website, went there but failed to find it.

It seems to me that your most recent post could well serve as a 'preface' on ESMB that would 'position' the story well enough to reduce the flack from those who might otherwise feel obliged to protest.

Given your comments regarding the time it takes to respond to posts directed toward you, I would suggest simply posting the whole story at once, including a note that you will respond to all 'polite' comments in the order received but that responses may get backlogged. This would almost certainly reduce the total number of comments and at least reduce the ones which would be answered 'later' in the story itself. (Less DEV-T )

Another possibility, which would further reduce comments, is to -- just put the story up on some web page and throw us the link. That would seem to satisfy (nearly) all parties while also ending cycle on your initial postulate.

Please do something -- soon.

I've been 'inactive' in Scientology about as long as you have. My initial attention was drawn by reading DMSMH; but I became extremely interested after reading, "COHA," "Scientology 8-8008," "The Phoenix Lectures" and such. O.T. was the big lure.

And while it's now pretty clear that Scientology never managed to help anyone reach a stable O.T. state such as we then envisaged, unless we assume there were a hell of a lot of people willing to flat out lie, some folks did, occasionally, manage to do some extra-ordinary things. "Close but NO CIGAR, " some say. Yes, sure enough. But "CLOSE!!!"

I've heard, repeatedly, of the failures of Scientology. Got that. I still like to read of the times it got -- close.

Best,

G.

 

[lkwdblds]

We were both in 31 years - something in common

I want to take you to task on this part of your post a little bit. I'm not expert in what I'm about to say, but I think some others will be able to help me more completely conceptualize what I'm going to write here. And that is:

Christianity does not fit well with your statements above. My understanding is that the crux of christianity is that you give up your "id", "self determinism", "spiritual beingness" or whatever you want to call it - you give it up to the will of God, through the realization that Christ himself, personally "took it on the chin" for all of us not only in our "shared universe" but most importantly in our "own universes".

This is one of the most powerful concepts that Anyone, Anywhere has ever come up with and is at the root of the absolutely wonderful world we live in now where we now have the time and space to find and erradicate inequities and other outpoints in our lives.

In other words, GIVE UP your spiritual "boot-strapping". Prayer, reflection and meditation about Christ's sacrifice is time well spent.

As I said, I'm not expert, but by being in Scientology for 31 years, I threw a lot of babies out with the bathwater and I'm now coming around to getting them back in!! Ha ha.

Just saying.

Hey, not OK, I was also active 31 years from 1970 to 2001. I still hung around for three or four more years taking phone calls and going to events and somewhere around late 2004, I pulled the plug completely.

My take on Christianity is mixed. I believe Christ existed and was and still is a great being and he was a great philosopher and a Jew, to which religion I was born into. I never felt comfortable acccepting the divinity portion of the Chrisitan Religion, the Virgin birth, the resurrection and so forth. I like and respect Christians. I support them in their goals. Some on this thread say that John Mc Masters, the first clear was Christ in an earlier incarnation. Roger was told this personally by Johnny Mac, I believe.

The moment I was exposed to Buddhism, I felt more at home with that data that I learned than with Christian theology. I do not think one being can suffer for the sins of another being. The being who committed the sin has to do his own repentence and make good on repairing the damages himself. I am not comfortable in accepting a proxy who will take care of this for me. Another thing that does not attract me to the Judeo Christian theologies is the belief which some Christians hold that accepting Christ as one's savior is both NECESSARY and SUFFICIENT to go to Heaven. To me how any person will do in any perceived after life is totally dependent on one's DEEDS or WORKS as the CHRISTIANS like to state. Ones Deeds and Mindset will determine his future existence.

On the "ego" thing, both Christianity and Buddhism and Hinduism are saying to get rid of your ego. I am not that advanced yet. I still like being an individual and being unique and having my own identity. THE BOTTOM LINE FOR ME IS THAT I HAVE NEVER WON AT THIS GAME OF BEING AN EGO. I WANT TO WIN THE GAME JUST ONE TIME BEFORE I ATTEMPT TO GIVE UP MY EGO. You know, giving up an ego which has repeatedly lost in various lives is not much of a sacrifice but giving up a wining ego, that shows extreme committment!

My advice to you is that if you believe whole heartedly in Christianity, MORE POWER TO YOU! I AM HAPPY FOR YOU AND AM PLEASED THAT YOU HAVE FOUND A SPIRITUAL PATH WHICH YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH. I will support you in any and all ways possible except for joining your group myself. I am partially joined in that I am a supporter of your goup but a practictioner, no, that is not for me,

So take care and be sure to pray for poor misguided Lakey so in case I am wrong, you will cover my backside and my soul may not go to Hell but might end up in purgatory instead with Dante and a lot of my fellow Jewish buddies who lived before Christ came along and thus never had the opportunity to accept him. My question of the day, Did Moses make it to Heaven?
Lakey

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Hello Facey,

I'll tell you this: It was around 1995 when I first found internet discussion regarding hubbard, scientology, and the church. I found the usenet groups alt.clearing.technology and alt.religion.scientology. Event though I had been out since 1989 determined to never set foot in another church, I still approached the threads as if I was getting into something taboo. I sat in front of the computer screen looking over my shoulder from time to time. And I was only lurking!

What blew me away was the way hubbard and scientology were getting bashed. Yet, people were speaking their minds. How refreshing.

Then I decided to jump in on the conversation when I saw some old friends there. I asked questions to kind of test the waters. Then I began to write my mind choosing to post as myself. It has been a fantastic process.

I am Ted, once in a while I post some identifying markers. That would be Ted Crammer. I was known as an auditor in San Diego and Tucson. I choose to post as myself because I am working on a real life communications release. My safepoint is that I was never high enough in the church to miss some fantastic withholds, and I know that good auditing is a wonderful thing and should be continued. Oh, yes, I have had marvelous wins and gains on scientology and dianetic processing and have gained on every action and level. No doubt about it. So-called ethics tech sucks donkey balls. I do not care who has had wins with it, I am firm in that assessment.

Having said that, I have one more safepoint: My wife and I are on scientology's infamous enemies list. How's that? Total tech success, on enemy list.

Now down to what you wrote: It's perfect. Don't change a thing. As for what the Panda wrote, right on target, perfectly true.

Hope that helps.

Thank You, Ted…I appreciate that very much. Thank you for telling me more about you and your story...good stuff. Very impressive that you and the Mrs. are on the Enemies list…lots of good folks that I knew are on that list.

I was at the SD Org once in the ‘70’s…it was fairly small then. Your name is vaguely familiar to me but we never met to my knowledge.

As I said before, I had some wonderful things happen in auditing and in auditing and helping others…the “White” Scientology part.

You’ve been a big help to me as I learn to ‘navigate’ with my broken compass.

Face

 

[This is NOT OK !!!!]

On the "ego" thing, both Christianity and Buddhism and Hinduism are saying to get rid of your ego. I am not that advanced yet. I still like being an individual and being unique and having my own identity. THE BOTTOM LINE FOR ME IS THAT I HAVE NEVER WON AT THIS GAME OF BEING AN EGO. I WANT TO WIN THE GAME JUST ONE TIME BEFORE I ATTEMPT TO GIVE UP MY EGO. You know, giving up an ego which has repeatedly lost in various lives is not much of a sacrifice but giving up a wining ego, that shows extreme committment!

My advice to you is that if you believe whole heartedly in Christianity, MORE POWER TO YOU! I AM HAPPY FOR YOU AND AM PLEASED THAT YOU HAVE FOUND A SPIRITUAL PATH WHICH YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH. I will support you in any and all ways possible except for joining your group myself. I am partially joined in that I am a supporter of your goup but a practictioner, no, that is not for me,

So take care and be sure to pray for poor misguided Lakey so in case I am wrong, you will cover my backside and my soul may not go to Hell but might end up in purgatory instead with Dante and a lot of my fellow Jewish buddies who lived before Christ came along and thus never had the opportunity to accept him. My question of the day, Did Moses make it to Heaven?

I'm not claiming to be a fervent believer.

I'm not claiming I'm not either.

But I think I can say (fairly enough) that an honest pilgrim of Christianity is not going around commiting PT overts with a not-so-secret plan in their head to pray for absolution just prior to dropping their body.

As for my powers to "intercede" on your behalf with the big man upstairs..... well, I'll do my best and in the end you and only you will find out how I did!!

Peace.

 

[Ted]

Is Christ relevant?

I want to take you to task on this part of your post a little bit. I'm not expert in what I'm about to say, but I think some others will be able to help me more completely conceptualize what I'm going to write here. And that is:

Christianity does not fit well with your statements above. My understanding is that the crux of christianity is that you give up your "id", "self determinism", "spiritual beingness" or whatever you want to call it - you give it up to the will of God, through the realization that Christ himself, personally "took it on the chin" for all of us not only in our "shared universe" but most importantly in our "own universes".

This is one of the most powerful concepts that Anyone, Anywhere has ever come up with and is at the root of the absolutely wonderful world we live in now where we now have the time and space to find and erradicate inequities and other outpoints in our lives.

In other words, GIVE UP your spiritual "boot-strapping". Prayer, reflection and meditation about Christ's sacrifice is time well spent.

As I said, I'm not expert, but by being in Scientology for 31 years, I threw a lot of babies out with the bathwater and I'm now coming around to getting them back in!! Ha ha.

Just saying.

This be my take, not ultimate truth, just my take.

The thetan bootstrapping itself, and any other such concept misses the mark by miles. Such hubbardian phrases are grounded not in spirit but in individualism, that tough-guy, swashbuckling attitude of insouciance that hubbard so relished. It's a strange concept when I put it all together, swashbuckling insouciance. I believe, as of this writing, it was hubbard's way of enlisting adventurers and the foolhardy.

"You are totally responsible for the condition you are in," that famous idea that was supposed to be signage in your E/O's office putting you on notice, is an assumption point from which a being's accumulated no-responsibilities might be addressed.

But is it true? I say only partially.

That phrase, though somewhat useful as an assumption point, becomes a destructive service computation, or a policy assertion and we always follow policy, or a setup to get you to the reg for a purchase of more auditing, or an outright lie. It could be many things, just depends on how it is being used and by whom.

Driving the being into possession of and identification with whomever or whatever puts the being on the defensive. Your bridge, your case, your upset, your money, your space, your time, and so on. Just had a great win? Too bad. YOUR CASE will come crashing in at any time. YOU had better get going on YOUR NEXT LEVEL before that happens.

Got yourself in an ethics jam? Even a Declare? YOUR friends will not come to YOUR DEFENSE because they are too concerned with THEIR bridge, their freedom being taken away. YOU will stand before the Committee ALONE. And you will be lucky if you even get to see the reports written against YOU.

Christ, the idea of Christ, this needs to be invalidated because in scientology it is important that YOU are ALONE.

YOUR stats, YOUR post, YOUR contribution of time, energy effort, YOUR very life force, YOU are owned -- if you allow it to be.

What happens if you give up your knuckle-headed will to survive? To be right? To carry on against all odds? The id, the ego is not going to as-is much, if anything. Expecting the ego to find Truth? Ain't gonna happen on a grand scale. Ego truth isn't worth spit in the grand scheme of things.

But God, the spirit that is you that is a part of AllThatIs, can easily blow away the ego, all its survival mechanisms, all valences.

So from the perspective of a meat body human being, or lesser being looking at Christ as savior, I can see and appreciate that. But looking at Christ from the God perspective, at lest as best as I can approximate it at this time, I really dig that.

"Giving it up to the will of God" means me, the I spirit, looking at the ego, the id, and all of that survival stuff, and going "poof!"

"You are totally responsible for the condition you are in"... True from God perspective, not true from hubbard's perspective or from an ego, MEST universe, survival perspective.

While I do not call myself a Christian, there are characteristics of being Christlike that I find extremely valuable. I won't ever do the walk on water thing, but I would like to be able to walk among the lepers, so to speak, and bring them the gift of knowing who and what they really are. This is the first milestone on what auditing is all about.

There. That's my take as of today. Did I clarify anything or make it more complicated?

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Face, Bloody brilliant.

AS Ted says later, "what you wrote: It's perfect. Don't change a thing. As for what the Panda wrote, right on target, perfectly true." It's a perfect assessment and statement. Don't change a bloody thing!

You see, we are each perceiving from a slightly different perspective, and those perspectives in whole and aligned will give us the most correct and truthful account.

What a marvelous bunch this is!

I think I'll drink a toast to that! Yes, Sir!

R

Thank you, Rog. A “Bloody Brilliant” from Mr. Bloody Brilliant…Wow.

This I hold to be true and I’m not out to skew or demonize El Ron…I also am not giving out, from my perspective, any free passes or undeserved ataboy’s to El Ron. You see, I saw with my own eyes, mind and heart that “It” all didn’t have to turn out the way it did. I’m gonna “take a break” and work on the next “Reader’s Digest” Installment. I’ll post some more of my “Points” in a few days.

Yep…whatta marvelous bunch indeed!

Here’s to ya, all y’all!

Face

 

[Ted]

Thank You, Ted…I appreciate that very much. Thank you for telling me more about you and your story...good stuff. Very and impressive that you and the Mrs. are on the Enemies list…lots of good folks that I knew are on that list.

I was at the SD Org once in the ‘70’s…it was fairly small then. Your name is vaguely familiar to me but we never met to my knowledge.

As I said before, I had some wonderful things happen in auditing and in auditing and helping others…the “White” Scientology part.

You’ve been a big help to me as I learn to ‘navigate’ with my broken compass.

Face

I did my Dianetic Internship at SDO, in the cellar, Russ Lucas the Intern Sup. Did the Academy levels on the main floor. Chari Garrison the Course Sup. The org was small then. Carol, was the C/S.

I audited at the Adams Ave. Mission. Every once in a while word would come back to me, "Hey! I just met one of your pc's down at the org. He was in reception bragging about his auditor."

There were good times, and bad times. But in the beginning, mostly good times. We were young with plenty of time ahead of us to invest in this scientology thing. Found my wife there at the Mission. How could I ever complain about that?

Glad to have you here, Facey. Very glad.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

+++

"Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes." ~ Carl Jung ~

+++

Excellent!

This is personally very real to me and true from my perspective.

Scn and Scns get all F’d up with the “In” word…Introverted, Introspected, Interiorized , etc. As far as I am concerned, this stems from El Ron’s fears…and maybe some day I’ll take the time to “connect the dots”, as I see them, in a post.

Thanks again, Ted.

Face

 

[Ted]

Excellent!

This is personally very real to me and true from my perspective.

Scns get all F’d up with the “In” word…Introverted, Introspected, Interiorized , etc. As far as I am concerned, this stems from El Ron’s fears…and maybe some day I’ll take the time to “connect the dots”, as I see them, in a post.

Thanks again, Ted.

Face

As my internet friend and philosopher Homer Wilson Smith is wont to repeat: "The way out is in."

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

This be my take, not ultimate truth, just my take.

The thetan bootstrapping itself, and any other such concept misses the mark by miles. Such hubbardian phrases are grounded not in spirit but in individualism, that tough-guy, swashbuckling attitude of insouciance that hubbard so relished. It's a strange concept when I put it all together, swashbuckling insouciance. I believe, as of this writing, it was hubbard's way of enlisting adventurers and the foolhardy.

"You are totally responsible for the condition you are in," that famous idea that was supposed to be signage in your E/O's office putting you on notice, is an assumption point from which a being's accumulated no-responsibilities might be addressed.

But is it true? I say only partially.

That phrase, though somewhat useful as an assumption point, becomes a destructive service computation, or a policy assertion and we always follow policy, or a setup to get you to the reg for a purchase of more auditing, or an outright lie. It could be many things, just depends on how it is being used and by whom.

Driving the being into possession of and identification with whomever or whatever puts the being on the defensive. Your bridge, your case, your upset, your money, your space, your time, and so on. Just had a great win? Too bad. YOUR CASE will come crashing in at any time. YOU had better get going on YOUR NEXT LEVEL before that happens.

Got yourself in an ethics jam? Even a Declare? YOUR friends will not come to YOUR DEFENSE because they are too concerned with THEIR bridge, their freedom being taken away. YOU will stand before the Committee ALONE. And you will be lucky if you even get to see the reports written against YOU.

Christ, the idea of Christ, this needs to be invalidated because in scientology it is important that YOU are ALONE.

YOUR stats, YOUR post, YOUR contribution of time, energy effort, YOUR very life force, YOU are owned -- if you allow it to be.

What happens if you give up your knuckle-headed will to survive? To be right? To carry on against all odds? The id, the ego is not going to as-is much, if anything. Expecting the ego to find Truth? Ain't gonna happen on a grand scale. Ego truth isn't worth spit in the grand scheme of things.

But God, the spirit that is you that is a part of AllThatIs, can easily blow away the ego, all its survival mechanisms, all valences.

So from the perspective of a meat body human being, or lesser being looking at Christ as savior, I can see and appreciate that. But looking at Christ from the God perspective, at lest as best as I can approximate it at this time, I really dig that.

"Giving it up to the will of God" means me, the I spirit, looking at the ego, the id, and all of that survival stuff, and going "poof!"

"You are totally responsible for the condition you are in"... True from God perspective, not true from hubbard's perspective or from an ego, MEST universe, survival perspective.

While I do not call myself a Christian, there are characteristics of being Christlike that I find extremely valuable. I won't ever do the walk on water thing, but I would like to be able to walk among the lepers, so to speak, and bring them the gift of knowing who and what they really are. This is the first milestone on what auditing is all about.

There. That's my take as of today. Did I clarify anything or make it more complicated?

Borrowing a phrase from Rog...This is Bloody Brilliant.

Face

 

[lkwdblds]

On Ted's Post 4466....

Ted, Just a quick note - After about 7 or 8 of your posts which were spectacular, your post #4466 did not resonate with me. I think probably, we are using different definitions for some basic terms used in the post and that if we could hash out some of the terms and definitions, I might see what you are getting at. That happened in the recent dispute I had with Mark Baker, he was defining service fac one way and I was using a different definition. Once we agreed on terms my objection to his post vanished.

On this post, something similar is probably going on. Anyway, its not important, I agreed strongly with 8 posts of your in a row and on this one I did see eye to eye with you. I am just going to let it go at that. Please keep posting.
Lakey

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

I did my Dianetic Internship at SDO, in the cellar, Russ Lucas the Intern Sup. Did the Academy levels on the main floor. Chari Garrison the Course Sup. The org was small then. Carol, was the C/S.

I audited at the Adams Ave. Mission. Every once in a while word would come back to me, "Hey! I just met one of your pc's down at the org. He was in reception bragging about his auditor."

There were good times, and bad times. But in the beginning, mostly good times. We were young with plenty of time ahead of us to invest in this scientology thing. Found my wife there at the Mission. How could I ever complain about that?

Glad to have you here, Facey. Very glad.

The Adams Ave. Mission had a rep at Flag for turning out top quality "products"...now I know some of the reason why.

Glad to be here, Ted. Very glad.

Face

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Ted, Just a quick note - After about 7 or 8 of your posts which were spectacular, your post #4466 did not resonate with me. I think probably, we are using different definitions for some basic terms used in the post and that if we could hash out some of the terms and definitions, I might see what you are getting at. That happened in the recent dispute I had with Mark Baker, he was defining service fac one way and I was using a different definition. Once we agreed on terms my objection to his post vanished.

On this post, something similar is probably going on. Anyway, its not important, I agreed strongly with 8 posts of your in a row and on this one I did see eye to eye with you. I am just going to let it go at that. Please keep posting.
Lakey

If the Jesus I "know", figuratively, walked into just about any "Christian" Church in this country he'd be asked to leave, or thrown out, forthwith.

Institutional Christianity is like institutional Scientology, they talk a good talk but don't and won't walk the walk.

I can’t remember the name of the song, but there’s a Randy Newman lyric that goes something like this, “Jesus threw the money changers from the temple; Two thousand years after they got back in by satellite.”

Face

 

[RogerB]

Hmmm, Got Me Thinking

Originally Posted by Ted View Post
+++

"Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes." ~ Carl Jung ~

+++

Originally posted by Face

Excellent!

This is personally very real to me and true from my perspective.

Scn and Scns get all F’d up with the “In” word…Introverted, Introspected, Interiorized , etc. As far as I am concerned, this stems from El Ron’s fears…and maybe some day I’ll take the time to “connect the dots”, as I see them, in a post.

As my internet friend and philosopher Homer Wilson Smith is wont to repeat: "The way out is in."

Hmmmm, the above got me thinking.

At the risk of being facetious, the above got me looking at what is or might be the right answer/expression.

It came to me that the best answer is: The way out is throughout.

The reason I think that works is that the notion or practice of being aware of the whole of self, throughout self, and the doing so without any limiter or fixation of "direction" of view and by doing so on a permeating omni-awareness basis, would likely give one a perception of the all that would be needed and have you able to know the true infinite you.

Hmmmm, I think I'll have a brandy on that!



Rog

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Welcome!

Awww such refreshing stuff. I love you Blue Spirit and Magic Thetan, as I love many of the guys who I have acknowledged along the way.

I am very happy to find that others have expierences similar to mine although some on this board do not agree.

This thread has developed into way beyond the thread title and thanks for that.

I will keep reading and add when it seems the time has come.

Welcome, TR'SIN! I think you will find many kindred spirits here, where there is never a dull moment or a dull conversation!

Glad that you decided to join us here!

 

[SweetnessandLight]

That's certainly odd.

But, Lazarus Long first appeared in Heinlein's 'Methuselah's Children', first published in 1941. So, the character wouldn't have been based on Hubbard, but, the use of the 'alias' sure does look like a reference to him.

And God knows the Lazarus Long in Methuselah's Children was from a far healthier Heinlein than his return in 'Time Enough for Love'.

But thanks Mark, that really is creepy.

Zinj

Wasn't Ron really proud of his writing about the character Old Doc Methuselah, said it helped to fund his Dianetics/Scientology "research" :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ole_Doc_Methuselah

?? Who wrote first about Methuselah, Heinlan or Hubbard?

I totally understand how someone could get caught up in a SCI-FI space opera cult, especially if you grew up in the southland in the 40's, 50's and 60's . Space exploration (both inner and outer) were really BIG in the collective cultural consciousness here then... still are to a degree*.

*May the FORCE be with you!

 

[SweetnessandLight]

As a change of topic...

I just got off the phone with a fella from one of the Social Security offices. I was attempting to straighten out some information on record.

I asserted this knowing full well the truth of the situation; he asserted that looking at his computer screen. So I blew up on him. Told him his records were wrong and BTW, I hate the f'ing church of scientology. Gave him a bit of lowdown on how the church operates.

Then he comes clean. He had a good friend who died because she would not get proper medical care, insisted on auditing only. Her husband pleaded with her to get care, everyone pleaded with her to get proper care. She insisted otherwise.

We ended on a good note, in agreement that we hate the church of scientology.

Isn't ARC a wonderful thing?

LOL Ted, yes, ARC is a beautiful thing!

Do you think Social Security has been infiltrated by an OSA operative?
I've had my own totally wacky problems with them recently...probably just a system on overload... Sigh!

 

[lkwdblds]

I've been involved with Christians who wald the walk

If the Jesus I "know", figuratively, walked into just about any "Christian" Church in this country he'd be asked to leave, or thrown out, forthwith.

Institutional Christianity is like institutional Scientology, they talk a good talk but don't and won't walk the walk.

I can’t remember the name of the song, but there’s a Randy Newman lyric that goes something like this, “Jesus threw the money changers from the temple; Two thousand years after they got back in by satellite.”

Face

I have this friend who is in a special sect of Christianity founded in the Phillipines in 1911 called La Iglesia de Cristo or something like that. They're entire focus is to adhere exactly to what Christ said with no additives. They make a lot more sense to me than other branches. Still I reject them because of their belief that everyone else except for members of their sect will go to Hell in the last Days including all other Chrisitan denominations. Any religion who thinks that way, and that includes Scientology, is automatically eliminated by me.

By the way, their Last Days is more Science Fiction than any Science Fiction ever written about or made into a movie. Also they believe the Earth is only something like 6,000 years old and that God literally made it in 6 days and all that folk lore. Anything like that I can not take seriously but if I had to join a Christian Church, I would choose their sect to join.
Lakey

 

[SweetnessandLight]

I'd say, yes!

The perspective that the author writes from gives reason to ponder the possibilities should his perspective be anywhere near correct. I posted it because it looks correct enough to me. I have often remarked that not everyone that walks upright on two legs is a human being.

What happens when you process the client in front of you on his/her own, right items? Compare that to processing the client on someone else's item, dishing out false time tracks to everyone.

Has the church turned into a spiritless ego mill poised to die off one person at a time, each ego smugly satisfied with its auditing-polished narcissism and false time track?

I will let this cook on the mind's back burner for a while -- something enlightening to be served up later.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IHAZeqwQvA

Judging from the unresolved mental/emotional problems and general failure to thrive and "stuckness" of the person I was in closest communication with who is still in...(who was also very superior and arrogant about his "abilities", none of which were ever demonstrated in real life )
...the answer is YES!!!

I'm SO GLAD you guys are all out!!! Well done, everyone!