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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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lkwdblds

Crusader
Shear brilliance Ted. Blip Please read this post!

Just as the NAACP does not represent ALL colored persons (black, brown, tan, yellow, red, green, gray, purple), the KKK does not represent ALL honkies.

As a kid, I enjoyed Amos and Andy on TV. I never missed a show. The Kingfish was hilarious in his efforts to get ahead. I could relate. Beaulah was a wonderful person. I never considered being someone's house person as I was focused on my induction into the Baseball Hall of Fame. But Beaulah was the show.

Now speaking of baseball, my top heroes from my time were Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays. I wanted to play center field. If I recall, Willie was one of them colored folks -- or was he? No. He was "Willie Mays," the "Say Hey Kid," the one player who could do it all and do it greatly: hit, run, throw, field, entertain...

As for a book or movie depicting racism, especially to a kid not even a teen at the time, are you kidding? Books and movies are works of art. They might be meant to propagandize or indoctrinate, but to the kid, they are merely entertainment -- a money-maker for some company -- entertainment to me. Imagine my disappointment when I discovered that in real life few of the coloreds were like Uncle Remus or the Kingfish or Rochester or Willie Mays. I had black friends whom I played ball with. I knew they were different. I did not know that difference meant racism with all its ugliness.

Should I start up the NARNP, the National Association of Red Neck People, because I have relatives as down-home, hardworking, god-fearing, Southern-drawling, and redneck as anyone? Should I cry the racism card? How ridiculous.

I believe that what we are looking at here is the difference between collectivism and individualism. The collectivist attempts to pile everyone into their separate groups then place one group against the other. The individualist sees differences as different. Auditors are individualists -- at least the good ones are.

It is all too easy for a person to hide behind the collective. It is misleading to take the opinions and stance of one in the collective as representative of all the individuals therein. To put it another way, one Clear has never equaled another Clear no how many times the definition was changed.

The NAACP is as racist as the KKK. Only their methods of expression differ.

Main Entry: col·lec·tiv·ism
Pronunciation: \kə-ˈlek-ti-ˌvi-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1857
1 : a political or economic theory advocating collective control especially over production and distribution; also : a system marked by such control
2 : emphasis on collective rather than individual action or identity

Main Entry: in·di·vid·u·al·ism
Pronunciation: \ˌin-də-ˈvij-wə-ˌli-zəm, -ˈvi-jə-wə-, -ˈvi-jə-ˌli-\
Function: noun
Date: 1827
1 a (1) : a doctrine that the interests of the individual are or ought to be ethically paramount; also : conduct guided by such a doctrine (2) : the conception that all values, rights, and duties originate in individuals b : a theory maintaining the political and economic independence of the individual and stressing individual initiative, action, and interests; also : conduct or practice guided by such a theory
2 a : individuality b : an individual peculiarity : idiosyncrasy

Ted - You have outdone yourself. This post says it all and says it so well! It is a perfect post! You were always an excellent poster but you are moving up to an even higher level now. What are you taking? Is a a vitamin or meditation or what? Whatever it is, I would like to get some.

I tried to answer Blip in a complicated long post and then I read this and it is all said objectively and with an economy of words and without rancor, excessive tension or emotion!: thumbsup:
Lakey
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Well I am happy you would not want the Remus movie withdrawn from cirulation. I am just curious on what your take is in that Ethics Particle and myself both adopted Uncle Remus as a role model as a result of seeing that movie. How do you view that?

In many respects, I would suggest that your adoption of Uncle Remus as a role model has seen you live a metaphorically similar sort of life. You've been a "slave", subject to delusional experiences, and still give credence to those who claim the ability to talk with non-existent entities. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Maintaining a child-like innocence despite your experiences and still seeking always to see the best in others are hugely admirable qualities. Its a double-edged sword, though; by all means indulge and share your skills, but be wary of entering into multi-level marketing financial arrangements until you speak to someone like me ; )
 

FoTi

Crusader
Carmelo, thanks for the ragtime videos and sharing your vacation with us.

I love the Carl "Sonny" Leland Trio. I watched the people in the audience just sit there while he played.....I don't know how they could sit still. I was jumpin' around in my chair just watching and listening to them play. Man...he's one fine piano player! I think I got more exercise just sitting in my chair watching him play than I've had all week. Really got my circulation goin' :D


Lakey, thanks for the Part 2 report on the luncheon.


And as far as Uncle Remus goes, when I saw that movie, as a child, I knew nothing about racial anything...there was no such concept in my everyday life, so it was just a kids movie that I loved and I loved the music. I never saw Uncle Remus as any kind of slave or anything else demeaning...he was just a cheerful, happy guy. I sang zippity do da for years after I saw that movie. When I was in my 20's I used to drive around in my car and sing zippity do da. It was such a cheer me up song. I think a lot of kids loved Uncle Remus and from my viewpoint I think the movie would lessen any prejudice that white kids might have run into in relation to blacks and put blacks in a better position in relation to the white kids growing up. If a white kid saw Uncle Remus in that movie and really liked him, I think that good feeling would most likely carry over to the next black person they encountered in life, unless something else happened to change it. I think it affected me that way, anyway. But, with movies, as well as any other form of art.....people sometimes tend to see what they want to see in it rather than just seeing it as it is and taking it at face value, or even seeing it as the author intended for them to see it. People tend to place their own values and experiences on what they're looking at, so one movie or one piece of art can mean different things to different people.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
And as far as Uncle Remus goes, when I saw that movie, as a child, I knew nothing about racial anything...there was no such concept in my everyday life, so it was just a kids movie that I loved and I loved the music. I never saw Uncle Remus as any kind of slave or anything else demeaning...he was just a cheerful, happy guy. I sang zippity do da for years after I saw that movie. When I was in my 20's I used to drive around in my car and sing zippity do da. It was such a cheer me up song. I think a lot of kids loved Uncle Remus and from my viewpoint I think the movie would lessen any prejudice that white kids might have run into in relation to blacks and put blacks in a better position in relation to the white kids growing up. If a white kid saw Uncle Remus in that movie and really liked him, I think that good feeling would most likely carry over to the next black person they encountered in life, unless something else happened to change it. I think it affected me that way, anyway. But, with movies, as well as any other form of art.....people sometimes tend to see what they want to see in it rather than just seeing it as it is and taking it at face value, or even seeing it as the author intended for them to see it. People tend to place their own values and experiences on what they're looking at, so one movie or one piece of art can mean different things to different people.

Yep. You're quite right - there's little more subjective on Earth than an appreciation of Art, or even what constitutes Art. And, yes, people do tend to place their own values and experiences into both what they are looking at and also what they are creating. I wonder, then, if its relevant to the discussion that Walt Disney was himself both a shocking racist and a member of the American Nazi Party?

Did you know Uncle Remus was the only black American to appear in any Disney production during Walt's life time? Or that blacks were banned from employment at Disneyland because Walt believed their presence would "spoil the illusion"?
 

afaceinthecrowd

Gold Meritorious Patron
What I bought into and Why, Part 4

“Never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never - in nothing great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense.” Sir Winston Churchill

“It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.” Mark Twain

Near the end of my Soph year the Butcher merged his shop with a local grocer and created the first quasi supermarket in our little town. Already a trained meat cutter, I learned to order and handle a produce section, grocery section and Dairy box. I was lightening fast on a cash register and stocking shelves, popular with the customers, many of whom had become very friendly, interested in me and became my own little booster club. Football was becoming my best sport, Lettering as a Soph and in my Junior year I was first string Slotback and Strong Safety (All League, Honorable Mention). Academically I wasn’t a super star but was holding my own in the advance college prep group. I was dating the daughter—a real looker and a Senior— of two professors at the county community college and life was good, life was simple.

Then began a series of events that would drastically alter the course of my life and, eventually, usher me in to Scientology.

My father found another woman in another town about 60 miles away that was more to his liking and just happened to be a wealthy widow. In December of my Junior year he just disappeared one day, called my mother and told her it was over, that he wasn’t coming back and that was final. I didn’t hear squat or see boo of him for 6 months. My mother, of course, was a basket case. She spent hours in tirades about how bad he was and how I was just like him and she pitied any woman that would marry me. Her “fallback” was Jesus and, though already a Born Again, Fundamentalist Christian, she left the bible thumper church that she and my father were longtime members of and fell in with an evangelical, speaking in tongues, literally Holy Roller bunch. Often when I came home at 9:00 after work she’d have a dozen or more of her new “friends” in the house and some of them would be rolling on the floor, shaking and ranting in “tongues” while the rest sat there moaning, “Praise Jesus, Yes Jesus, take me Jesus”. She’d insisted that I always come and say “hello” to each one of them. The look in their eyes was real spooky and it all creeped me out…bad.

School, work and sports, more than ever, became my refuge. I’d leave home early in the morning after my chores and came back late in the evening, do some chores, study some, read some and try to sleep. In some ways my life had not change all that much from my parents situation. I had many friends at school, had all my customer friends at work and my jock buddies. My father had never attended one my games and I could count on one hand the number of times we had done father/son stuff and even then, it was about him. My mother had only been to one game, which we lost, and afterwards she derided for how poorly I and teammates had played. She had also attended a couple choir performances but again, as far as she was concerned I wasn’t and the choir wasn’t very good. Of course, all four years I was in High School I had sung in the Advanced/Madrigal Choir and all four of those years our group received 9 out 9 Superior ratings at the Regional a cappella tournament. I rarely ever talked with anyone about my home life as it was embarrassing to me and seemed pointless. I knew what the solution was—to walk away when I finished High School…that was my hope, my dream and I thought little about my future beyond that.

Our football team that year went from next to last place my Soph year to second place. We had a new coach that was young, really good, inspiring and very much into making us the best men and team we could be. By the end of the year 70% of the starters were my fellow juniors. We had a good shot at being league champions our Senior year. After the season Mr. Head Coach called me into his office for a chat. He told me that as long as I kept my grades up he was confident I could get a scholarship to a Division II school, possibly Division 1AA, maybe even a 1A. He said he’d help me all he could to get one but I needed to make some choices.

I was an OK basketball player but likely to never be a starter, he said. He was right and I agreed. I was a good Baseball player, a pitcher with a gun for an arm but control problems and it would take a lot of work and practice to be a starter. He was right and I agreed. “Okay, Face,” he said, “here’s my deal, man to man. You give up basketball and baseball. Next semester I’ll get you put in my last period PE class. The rules won’t let me teach to any football but It will let me coach at weight training, agility and conditioning. Both terms this summer school the rules say that me and one other coach can teach body building and conditioning and you take both terms. We gotta get you bigger and quicker. You’re going to be the 2nd string Slotback next year because we’re going to concentrate on the position that you’ve got the best shot at getting a full ride.”

“You’re a real hitter son.” Coach continued. “You gotta a good head for the game and a nose for the ball. Look Face, I know you’ve got some tough stuff going on and I’m not gonna tell you how I know that, but I do, and that’s none of my business. What my business is is to make boys into men and, as far as I’m concerned you’re farther along than most…you just gotta suck it up and put it in the end zone, son. I can and I will help you, but you’re the one that’s gotta carry the ball.” He told me to think about, that it was my decision and up to me, that simple.

For me it was Ms. Angel and the Butcher all over again…someone believed in me, someone was gonna help me and give me a chance. I told Coach, then and there without hesitation, I was in and I wasn’t going to let him down. We stood up and shook hands, eye to eye, man to man. For weeks my head was in the clouds. I was gonna do this…no matter what it took, I was going to give it everything I had…I was going to make this happen! Nothing and no one was going to stop me.

Over the course of the rest of the school year I had less and less time for my personal reading pursuits. My focus was on preparing for the coming football season and my coming opportunity to vault into a new life. My reading shifted to stories of overcoming adversity, of determination and the “Philosophy and Tech” of football.

I could sense it, I could feel it in my heart and soul!

My moment was upon me!

Face :)
 
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lkwdblds

Crusader
Fine, from the heart post. I appreciate your comments

In many respects, I would suggest that your adoption of Uncle Remus as a role model has seen you live a metaphorically similar sort of life. You've been a "slave", subject to delusional experiences, and still give credence to those who claim the ability to talk with non-existent entities. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Maintaining a child-like innocence despite your experiences and still seeking always to see the best in others are hugely admirable qualities. Its a double-edged sword, though; by all means indulge and share your skills, but be wary of entering into multi-level marketing financial arrangements until you speak to someone like me ; )

I asked for your opinion and you gave it from the heart! It doesn't get any better than that. About my childlike aspect, yes, I was striving to keep that my whole life but now I am not so sure. My wife and I, who are still not done with our friendly divorce, does not appreciate the childlike approach of mine AT ALL and who can blame her, I have made bad business decisions and lost family money because of that trait. As you say, it is a two edged sword. I am able to sleep nights and am comfortable with myself because I do not lie or cheat or push any false agenda of mine onto people so that is good.

I do not know about the word "Slave" being appropriate. Maybe, it is a good choice of words, maybe not, school is still out for me on that. As to Bashar and channeling and Blue talking with LRH, that is a tough line for me to walk. To be honest, I am skeptical, very skeptical but if a friend is claiming positive changes in his life from channeling and I witness a resurgence in his performance in life, I am just going to "grant beingness" to my friend's reality. I am comfortable with that as the best possible decision. As to TMT, his story which he told me made channeling imore real to me. He claims he was extremely skeptical initially.

SOME COMMENTS ON TMT He is a very influential being, he causes big effects and good effects on people!

If I reject something which he is telling me one on one with conviction, part of me is going to die. I will never reject anything which he tells me with full conviction. To me he represents the viewpoint that I am a spiritual being, godlike in the ability to cause things and that I am linked with other spirits and my life has meaning and potential and I am carrying out a master plan. He represents to me all kinds of things which wake up life inside of me and make it exciting. If I say, "Come on Johnny, get real, this is all bullshit, your goals are too high and you are just deluding yourself, he won't die but I will be as good as dead." Were I to do such a thing, I would become just a regular Earth type meat body and brain cells type of guy. The physical universe would have won over me. After a long, long period of fighting it off, I would be totally and fully extinguished as a spirit and a godlike bieng. You talk about me being a slave, well that would be the case for sure, I would be totally a slave. sleepwalking my way through the flotsam and jetsom of the Physical Universe.

On multi level marketing, I appreciate your advice. The plan Blue and Johnny are recommending has an associate membership where I pay nothing to get involved. That is the way I plan to join. On the Kangen Water machine, I would love to own the machine but its $4,000 and I am not going to buy one so I am walking away from that.

Thanks Blip for the fine dialogue on Uncle Remus and for your last kind remarks.................Lakey
 
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Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
In many respects, I would suggest that your adoption of Uncle Remus as a role model has seen you live a metaphorically similar sort of life. You've been a "slave", subject to delusional experiences, and still give credence to those who claim the ability to talk with non-existent entities. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Maintaining a child-like innocence despite your experiences and still seeking always to see the best in others are hugely admirable qualities. Its a double-edged sword, though; by all means indulge and share your skills, but be wary of entering into multi-level marketing financial arrangements until you speak to someone like me ; )


BLiP, this is an eloquent ad hominem.
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Face - I just read your last post and am hooked...

Face, after replying to Blip, I just noticed and read your story about your family and school years. Simply outstanding writing with a great universal human interest story. I can't wait for the next installment.

If I had not returned to the Apollo '73 story in October of 2009, to write my CCLA story and the Apollo '73 thread never took off, I believe your story, judging from the opening chapter, would have become the Apollo "73 thread, with a different name of course.

But anyway, I am glad you are posting here and that we have provided you with a large and well informed audience who already greatly appreciate you. Right now I believe the amount of power being generated by this thread is astounding. It is no longer flippant or just idle fun to read and post here. THere are so many great articles coming out, that is now in the class of must reading! If you don't put in at least an hour or two on this thread daily nowadays, you are exhibiting dereliction of duty.
Lakey
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
"Ionized water" is one of many products and panaceas that the wonky-water wellness industry flogs onto the large segment of the general public that lacks the scientific background to distinguish scientific fact from pseudoscientific hype when the two are closely intertwined. The purpose of this page is to critically examine some of the claims about "ionized" and alkaline waters from the standpoint of modern chemistry and physiology in order to provide you with the information you need to make your own informed decision before opening your wallets to the hucksters of these products and whose claims are totally lacking in scientific support.

In multi-level marketing scams, the parent company keeps a low profile and makes few claims that would attract the scrutiny of regulators such as the U.S. FTC. Instead, they recruit thousands of "independent agents" who are provided with sales iterature containing false and misleading claims which they then transmit to their customers or put up on their own Web sites. These agents, few of whom are well-enough educated to evaluate these claims or to realize that they violate the FTC rules on deceptive advertising, are as much victims as are their consumer customers.

Consider, for example, this outright lie that can be found at some Kangen Water sales sites:

"It is well known in the medical community that an overly acidic body is the root of many common diseases, such as obesity, osteoporosis, diabetes, high blood-pressure and more..." [link1, link2]

To further mislead science-naïve readers, another Kangen page employs the common ruse of misrepresenting the 1931 Nobel Prize work of a famous pioneer of biochemistry. Don't believe any of this deceptive garbage! (Note: Kangen is frequently misspelled as "Kangan".)

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html
 

Ted

Gold Meritorious Patron
“Never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never - in nothing great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense.” Sir Winston Churchill

“It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.” Mark Twain

Near the end of my Soph year the Butcher merged his shop with a local grocer and created the first quasi supermarket in our little town. Already a trained meat cutter, I learned to order and handle a produce section, grocery section and Dairy box. I was lightening fast on a cash register and stocking shelves, popular with the customers, many of whom had become very friendly, interested in me and became my own little booster club. Football was becoming my best sport, Lettering as a Soph and in my Junior year I was first string Slotback and Strong Safety (All League, Honorable Mention). Academically I wasn’t a super star but was holding my own in the advance college prep group. I was dating the daughter—a real looker and a Senior— of two professors at the county community college and life was good, life was simple.

Then began a series of events that would drastically alter the course of my life and, eventually, usher me in to Scientology.

My father found another woman in another town about 60 miles away that was more to his liking and just happened to be a wealthy widow. In December of my Junior year he just disappeared one day, called my mother and told her it was over, that he wasn’t coming back and that was final. I didn’t hear squat or see boo of him for 6 months. My mother, of course, was a basket case. She spent hours in tirades about how bad he was and how I was just like him and she pitied any woman that would marry me. Her “fallback” was Jesus and, though already a Born Again, Fundamentalist Christian, she left the bible thumper church that she and my father were longtime members of and fell in with an evangelical, speaking in tongues, literally Holy Roller bunch. Often when I came home at 9:00 after work she’d have a dozen or more of her new “friends” in the house and some of them would be rolling on the floor, shaking and ranting in “tongues” while the rest sat there moaning, “Praise Jesus, Yes Jesus, take me Jesus”. She’d insisted that I always come and say “hello” to each one of them. The look in their eyes was real spooky and it all creeped me out…bad.

School, work and sports, more than ever, became my refuge. I’d leave home early in the morning after my chores and came back late in the evening, do some chores, study some, read some and try to sleep. In some ways my life had not change all that much from my parents situation. I had many friends at school, had all my customer friends at work and my jock buddies. My father had never attended one my games and I could count on one hand the number of times we had done father/son stuff and even then, it was about him. My mother had only been to one game, which we lost, and afterwards she derided for how poorly I and teammates had played. She had also attended a couple choir performances but again, as far as she was concerned I wasn’t and the choir wasn’t very good. Of course, all four years I was in High School I had sung in the Advanced/Madrigal Choir and all four of those years our group received 9 out 9 Superior ratings at the Regional a cappella tournament. I rarely ever talked with anyone about my home life as it was embarrassing to me and seemed pointless. I knew what the solution was—to walk away when I finished High School…that was my hope, my dream and I thought little about my future beyond that.

Our football team that year went from next to last place my Soph year to second place. We had a new coach that was young, really good, inspiring and very much into making us the best men and team we could be. By the end of the year 70% of the starters were my fellow juniors. We had a good shot at being league champions our Senior year. After the season Mr. Head Coach called me into his office for a chat. He told me that as long as I kept my grades up he was confident I could get a scholarship to a Division II school, possibly Division 1AA, maybe even a 1A. He said he’d help me all he could to get one but I needed to make some choices.

I was an OK basketball player but likely to ever be a starter, he said. He was right and I agreed. I was a good Baseball player, a pitcher with a gun for an arm but control problems and it would take a lot of work and practice to be a starter. He was right and I agreed. “Okay, Face,” he said, “here’s my deal, man to man. You give up basketball and baseball. Next semester I’ll get you put in my last period PE class. The rules won’t let me teach to any football but It will let me coach at weight training, agility and conditioning. Both terms this summer school the rules say that me and one other coach can teach body building and conditioning and you take both terms. We gotta get you bigger and quicker. You’re going to be the 2nd string Slotback next year because we’re going to concentrate on the position that you’ve got the best shot at getting a full ride.”

“You’re a real hitter son.” Coach continued. “You gotta a good head for the game and a nose for the ball. Look Face, I know you’ve got some tough stuff going on and I’m not gonna tell you how I know that, but I do, and that’s none of my business. What my business is is to make boys into men and, as far as I’m concerned you’re farther along than most…you just gotta suck it up and put it in the end zone, son. I can and I will help you, but you’re the one that’s gotta carry the ball.” He told me to think about, that it was my decision and up to me, that simple.

For me it was Ms. Angel and the Butcher all over again…someone believed in me, someone was gonna help me and give me a chance. I told Coach, then and there without hesitation, I was in and I wasn’t going to let him down. We stood up and shook hands, eye to eye, man to man. For weeks my head was in the clouds. I was gonna do this…no matter what it took, I was going to give it everything I had…I was going to make this happen! Nothing and no one was going to stop me.

Over the course of the rest of the school year I had less and less time for my personal reading pursuits. My focus was on preparing for the coming football season and my coming opportunity to vault into a new life. My reading shifted to stories of overcoming adversity, of determination and the “Philosophy and Tech” of football.

I could sense it, I could feel it in my heart and soul!

My moment was upon me!

Face :)


Way to go, Facey!

Carry on!
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
I have attended about 5 meetings....


I have attended about 5 meetings. There are two things to look at in assessing the company.

#1 - Whether the water is a health aid and life extender.
#2 - Whether becomming a distributor can be a moneymaking proposition.

On number 2, I am certain that it is relatively simple to make very high income being a distributor for them. Number 1 comes into play because if you feel the water produced is nothing special then if you still go for #2 then you are participating in a scam.

I am about 75% to 80% convinced now that the water will do what is claimed for it. All the evidence is anecdotal, there are no scientific studies to support it but the anecdotal evidence is overwhelming. The meetings have been attended by 100 to 400 people and have I have talked to hundreds of people and they all swear by the water. When I drink it, I tend to feel better as well and I have drunk many gallons.

Most of the studies on the internet are sponsored by other firms who are selling machines purported to be just as good for from 1/2 to 1/4 the cost of a Kangen. One of the seminars which Kangen puts on does a 2 hour analysis of all the other machines and the negative reviews written against Kangen.

I am child like and I tend to believe that the Kangen machine is "for real" but I don't know for sure. I wish that Consumer Reports would test all the various machines but no such testing by independent research labs has been done.
Lakey
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Either that, or Uncle Remus perpetuates the "happy slave" myth. Makes it easier on the collective consciousness of the white folks if you can smooth over the idea that the slaves could be in the least bit unhappy about their lot in life.

Tell me, when the movie came out, did blacks in the US have the vote and, if not, what did Scientology have to say about it?

Blacks officially had the vote since just after the civil war. Various southern states implemented various measures to stop blacks from voting that held until the 1950's or so, which was after the movie came out.

As far as slaves and their happiness with their lives, I'm not concerned. I didn't enslave any (that was done by their black brothers in Africa, along with mostly black Muslim slave traders, who then sold them to the slave ships). My ancestors were not involved with the slave trade. And their happiness and well being was probably a lot better than if they had stayed in Africa. Ask any current resident of Rwanda if he would be happier in Rwanda or in coming to the US under any conditions. I have no interest in having money taken out of my pocket for the purpose of supposedly righting the wrongs of others.

I have no idea what Scn had to say about black civil rights. I never heard LRH say anything to promote rights for blacks.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Everything you say is correct, no argument there. The question if whether to forcibly take the movie out of circulation, with the charge against the movie being that it was racist.

This can be looked at several ways. One way was as the NAACP saw it, that it was racist and another way is as I and EP (Ethics Particle) saw it. EP and I were both strongly effected and affected by the movie and certainly there must be hundreds or perhaps thousands like us, who were children back in 1948 and who saw the movie as PORTRAYING A VAST INJUSTICE AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE. As we grew older and into our 20's, many of us started marching against segregation. I did not become such a person but I would have marched if I had been called on to do so. I know this because on a trip to Miami when I was 15, I had occasion to use the City buses and always elected to sit in the Black only section in the back of the bus as a form of protest.

THE KEY ISSUE IN A NUTSHELL
To me, the movie was not racist itself but it did PORTRAY actual racism which had taken place in the United States. The movie was a basically accurate historical account of what racism was like in the Old pre civil war South. IN BANNING SUCH A MOVIE AND PREVENTING THE WALT DISNEY FILM COMPANY FROM EXERCISING FREE SPEECH IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA I believe the movie itself must actually be racist and represent Black people as servile or inferior to whites rather than merely accurately portraying racism which had taken place. When a movie merely portrays event which occurred at a time and place where real racisim was taking place and the movie attempts in a way, to champion the cause of those being discriminated against, then I do not feel that that movie should be banned from circulation.

EXAMPLES USING THE JEWISH PEOPLE In many movies, take the "Ten Commandments" as a stellar example, the Jewish people are portrayed as being slaves, in bondage in ancient Egypt. They toiled all day as slaves for their Egytian masters and were fed only enough to keep them alive. They were whipped whenever they slowed down. They were not allowed to converse socially with Egyptians, nor allowed rest breaks and if they became injured they were forced to keep working until they finally died.

Did the Jewish Groups come forward and demand the movie be banned? No, they did not, they looked at the movie as a means of positive PR for the Jewish people. Just look at many WWII movies such as Schindle's List and so many others. The Jewish people were rounded up, herded into cattle cars, taken to live first in ghetto's and later to extermination camps. They were accuarately portrayed as being inferior physcially and morally to fine Aryan, blond hair and blue eyed, stock. By the example of Uncle Remus, none of these WWII movies portraying the Jews as inferior and being isolated into camps and then exterminated, should have been allowed to be shown.

The reason these movies were allowed and even encouraged to be screened is because the movies themselves were not racist but merely historically portrayed racism. Though I understand the motivation of what the NAACP was trying to do by banning Uncle Remus and other things which they banned such as the Amos and Andy Radio and TV Shows, the Beaulah Show and others, I am sympathetic to the NAACP viewpoint but when viewed objectively and not emotionally, I do not feel that viewpoint is the best viewpoint to take when it comes to getting rid of racism. For those who believe differently and support the banning of the Remus movie, they are right in following what they believe in and the course they took is the right course for them.
Lakey

I like your analysis.
 

Enthetan

Master of Disaster
Yes, it's like the Trade Union movement (certainly so in the UK, and was so in Oz when I lived there) . . . . the Trade Union movement has to foment the strife and alleged continued injustices otherwise they have no role or reason to exist.

Forty years a go I wrote a paper in the UK on this scenario. The Trade Union movement had been acting as a deliberate "third party" to keep employer and employees (apparently) in dispute and conflict that the Unions "had" to handle as they "represented" the woikers! and looked after the woikers' interests against the bad employers . . . . never mentioned was the fact that the unions were fomenting all this strife to keep themselves in a cushy job!:duh:

Rog
I agree with your analysis, both regarding NAACP and unions. The NAACP is a classic bunch of chaos merchants. Their funding is dependent upon the continuing of bad relations between blacks and whites.

The unions these days are essentially legalized extortion. Their power is mostly dependent upon their ability to use violence and sabotage against employers. I also see unions and management in a conspiracy against the actual owners of the company, the shareholders. Looking at recent events with GM, management screwed the shareholders and bond holders by not terminatedly dealing with the unions, until finally the unions bled the company into bankruptcy.
 

FoTi

Crusader
Face, I love your last post. :thumbsup:


Lakey, I had an alkaline water machine, for which I paid about $1500.00, 9 or 10 years ago, when I was living in Clearwater. It was supposedly a model used in hospitals in Japan to help people to be healthier. I tried using that water a number of times, over a period of about 4 or 5 years, thinking that it was supposed to be good for me. I didn't like it. I sold it when I left Clearwater, 5 years ago, for about $600.00. I also had a friend who used an alkaline water machine all the time.....he died of a heart attack....I don't know if there was any connection, but I couldn't see that it improved his health any. I don't know if alkaline water has anything to do with one's health or not. :confused2: The only person I ever knew who swore up and down that it was really a great thing, sells them and makes a very nice profit on each one sold. I think one might have better luck balancing the ph in their body with eating the correct foods for one's body, eliminating those foods or combination of foods that make one's body acidic, eating more raw foods, exercising, and drinking enough water instead of coffee, tea, juice or soft drinks. And one doesn't need to spend $4,000.00 on an alkalizer to do that.

As far as that MLM or pyramid thing that Blue and Johnny are doing, I got the email on that thing and it mentioned having to spent over $4,000.00 to be a part of it. I didn't see anything about being any kind of an associate member without paying anything. It looked like some kind of money laundering scam to me....pay a bunch of money to be able to associate with people who have money? :confused2: So, I sent him a reply with a question and deleted the original email that I had received from Johnny. It actually kind of ticked me off that Johnny would send me an email like that trying to hook me into spending that kind of money for something that looked like some kind of money making scheme. It wasn't well explained. Maybe I misunderstood it. :unsure:

I guess time will tell, eh? If Johnny gets rich off of it and it does turn out to be something ethical, then I will say....okay, it was something good. But even if it is, I don't have the kind of money to buy into something like that on a chance that it might be okay.
 

FoTi

Crusader
Yep. You're quite right - there's little more subjective on Earth than an appreciation of Art, or even what constitutes Art. And, yes, people do tend to place their own values and experiences into both what they are looking at and also what they are creating. I wonder, then, if its relevant to the discussion that Walt Disney was himself both a shocking racist and a member of the American Nazi Party?

Did you know Uncle Remus was the only black American to appear in any Disney production during Walt's life time? Or that blacks were banned from employment at Disneyland because Walt believed their presence would "spoil the illusion"?

No, I wasn't aware of any of this.

Disney was a member of the Nazi Party?

Where did you learn all this?
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Okay - if science won't convince you about the water-ology scam, what about the legal history of Kevin Trudeau?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Trudeau#Legal_proceedings

. . . are you sure you want "Associate Membership" of GIN where your good name could be supplied to others as a sort of endorsement?

What GIN teaches is essentially an enticing, modernized form of Self-Mastery, a practice that has been around forever. It centers around gaining control over yourself, and taking that to the next level to gain control of reality. Through this, you are able to accomplish your dreams. That's the basic premise.

. . . sounds an awful like Scientology to me.

http://globalinformationnetworkscam.blogspot.com/
 

lkwdblds

Crusader
Aha at last a person who agrees with me!

I agree with your analysis, both regarding NAACP and unions. The NAACP is a classic bunch of chaos merchants. Their funding is dependent upon the continuing of bad relations between blacks and whites.

The unions these days are essentially legalized extortion. Their power is mostly dependent upon their ability to use violence and sabotage against employers. I also see unions and management in a conspiracy against the actual owners of the company, the shareholders. Looking at recent events with GM, management screwed the shareholders and bond holders by not terminatedly dealing with the unions, until finally the unions bled the company into bankruptcy.

My Orange Country right leaning views have a tendency to be bashed incessantly on ESMB and also on Facebook. Its so nice to read some views which agree with my own. There is strength in numbers. let's keep up our positions.
Orange County CA Republican, Lakey
 
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