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The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

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Neither of the above bolded statements are inherently or universally true.


The other side of the coin would be that some or many men view women as but an accessory...

No, I'd say the more common tendency among men is to regard women as objects to be possessed. Whereas women, at least in western cultures, use men to accent and assert their own identities, men don't similarly tend to assert their own identities through the women in their lives. Men, instead, tend to use women for various forms of gratification.

Such common tendencies arise from a predilection for thinking in terms of objects, bodies, and physical requirements.

Yes, I am cynical; but then a cynic is what an idealist calls a realist. :D


While it may be that there is some usefulness is parts of the tech and some positive accomplishments made by Hubbard... there is also some usefulness in focusing on Hubbard's wrongs and outright evils.

All aspects must be looked at in order to achieve a genuine understanding. Excessive focus on any single aspect or subset is indicative of a self-blocking on the part of the observer.


Mark A. Baker
 

FoTi

Crusader
Yes, this is true. :yes:

Mostly because there is very little "market" for them. It's a matter of "suppy vs. demand". Women don't actually value men much. They prefer the sort about whom they can complain to their friends and thus elicit sympathy for themselves.

For a woman a man is only an accessory item.


Mark A. Baker

Okay, Mr Cynical. I guess you're right in a way because I wouldn't value a man who thinks that "for a woman a man is only an accessory item", nor do I "prefer the sort about whom they can complain to their friends and thus elicit sympathy for themselves". From what you say it sounds like you just might be that "sort", that you think women prefer. It also appears that you have a very low opinion of women. I don't think you know much about women.
 
End of Summer blues

so there I was an hour ago, laying on the beach listening to a rock and roll band on the other end of the beach, laying on a big beach towel, being laid on by my big dog, reading Joe Gores' prequel to the Dashiell Hammett's _The Maltese Falcon_ , _Spade & Archer_(which is terrific, BTW), and the phone rang.

It was a guy having problems with asthma. The band was playing "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band." I asked him to describe the way he was feeling. He said that it felt like something was implanted in his lungs. The band had segued into "With a Little Help From My Friends." I asked if he had ever had something implanted into his lungs. He answered affirmatively. I got a date, moved him to the beginning, and ran him through it. He told me about it. The band moved on to "Respect" and my PC laughed and cogged. I asked if there were any more symptoms. How he was doing. He was doing fine.

We ended and I went back to listening to the band, absorbing sunshine, and reading my book.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2smDXr13EJE
 
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Important part of the process!

Here is an interesting observation passed to me by Virginia earlier in the week.

"At each stage of learning we must give up something, even if it is a way of life that we have always known."

-An Australian Aboriginal

It caused me to ponder a little when I first read it, and to see its applicability.

RogerB

This is what metaphysicians call "releasing". :)
 
Consciousness Rocks!

Well crap...now you tell me this...whatta let down. :bigcry:

Superb post, Ted...Absolutely Superb!:thumbsup::yes::yes::thumbsup:

Yep...that's exactly what I was talkin’ about. Too many folks have their “story”…their “routine” they try and run on others and themselves. What I’ve always been interested in, what I have learned from and has helped me so much, is the narrative of another’s journey on their path…the vignettes of their walk…the stories that color the canvass of their frame of reference.:yes::happydance::clap:

That's what I love about all y'all on this thread...the talented brushes, the innate sense for color and tone, the lives well lead and worth knowing about, the collaborative conscious of conscientious consciousness.:D

Face:)

Facey, I can't believe you spelled this correctly...you smarty-pants! Very alliterative! :coolwink: Brain damage my foot! :melodramatic:You are communicating quite well with all of us! :D

I very much appreciate your viewpoints on things, and the stories that you are sharing with us! :thumbsup: Thank you!
 
Big Hug to Leon!

The usual merchants of chaos are loving every minute of it. Divide anything you read or hear on the news by at least ten before forming any opinion of "the scale of the disaster"

Thank you Leon, I sent you a psychic postcard to see how things were your way, and got back reassurance, so it's nice to see it confirmed here in language on the board. I take back all the bad things I've ever said about engineers! :eyeroll:

Glad you and yours are well. Big hugs :)

The earth moves because She's alive! :D :happydance:
 
I am not going to get real personal about what we addressed but she wanted sort of a booster type session, you know, the tough economy, people not having much cash to spend on one's products, sorting things out, etc.

First, I had to run her ruds. I had to tell her what the ruds were and clear some words, she is very bright and caught on right away. She thought that it was really cool to check those things out before starting a process. With no meter one just observes the person's indicators. Two of the three ruds had reactions. She ran them beautifully and I put in the Curious about, Desired, Enforced, Inhibited, Refused buttons. Again no problems she ran the commands like a champion. I used earlier similar as needed.

On to the process which I chose based on Carmelo's recommendation. I cleared some words and explained how a repitive process works and had her give an example or two. The process started and it led right into the area which she wanted addressed. She ran it to a pretty decent win in my perception, she was smiling and upbeat about it so I told her we would move on. She was wondering how I decided whether to continue on something or move on to the next command. I told her that I watch her indicators. I always ask if there is more to say and will not move on if the client says yes. We ran the first two questions to good indicators and a new awareness. We were 30 minutes in session and I asked her how she was feeling and she said that the thing which was bothering her seemed to be gone. She asked if we had to do the NOTs type commands on it to make sure it left. I said no, we don't use then on this processs.

In my opening hatting, I told her the process was designed to produce a key out type of thing, she would feel like she was on top of the world for a few days, weeks maybe months but sooner or later the state would get keyed back in and end. She asked that if she kept things real clean and watched what she said and did, could she keep the gains indefinitely and I said that I doubted it. She said, "Its up to me isn't it?" I said you are absolutely correct. She said, she only need to key out for a short time because when she iskeyed out, she is going to make some decisions for success based on other technologies I am not familiar with. I said "Great!!" that sounds good to me.

We ended session with her beaming and telling me she felt good. I don't like plagerism and felt that I owed an acknowledgment to L Ron Hubbard and Scientology and so I stated that I learned the technology while I was taking classes there. Edey objected and said, "You paid them a fee to learn it, you studied hard and are able to do it and you told me we are doing it quite a bit different than what they would do with their E meter and regulated environment. I agreed with all of that. She said that if she went to them to get this, it would cost me $thousands, right. I said. "Absolutely right! Also, they would not have delivered it to you unless you were properly set up. To get to being set up for Power and then receive Power could probably cost you $30.000 to $50,000 in today's Church.

She said that is ridiculous, I just did it in 30 minutes for free. She said, "You need to stick with me, you have so much going for you but you are a little rough around the edges. I can handle that for you in exchange for the help you are giving me." I asked what are you going to do teach me to "dress for success" She said that is part of it, I will help you with your wardrobe, your hair, it is beautiful and full but I think a little salt and pepper coloring would imporve your appearance and also I'll help you get your weight down and then, you need to change your attitude and be more domineering and not be so nice and willing to do things for free all the time. I said, I have heard all of this before. She said that she used to be a master ethetician for many years and she would supervise a remake of my image. We both had to go and hugged and said some kind things to one another about how great the other person is.

I wanted a 2 D and in part, I got it, in the form of a Sister, who is part of one's "family". It wasn't quite what I had in mind but but I will take it. After all, I caused her to reject my amorous interest in my universe. My postulate worked so it must be the right thing for me. She assures me that when she helps me get the right girl friend then I will thank her for turning me down as a romantic partner. She says I am the best friend she has ever had in this lifetime and that she and I have been soul mates repeatedly on the backtrack. I don't have any pictures or incidents containing her essence but still I feel she's right.

Lakey

Lakey, do you remember my advice about how to handle this friendship? Let her take charge of your makeover and make a project out of it...having projects like this gives some women great pleasure...

A good friendship with a wonderful woman is a nice win. The best romances often grow out of good friendships, and she probably has a ton of women friends she can introduce you to, besides, once your make-over is complete! :coolwink:

Patience Lakey, you're doing fine with being in transition from your old life. That's all this is, your kids will see! :coolwink: You're doing great! :thumbsup:
 
It really isn't about Nibs as a person, nor is it about LRH as a person. They both had their faults - no doubts about that. It's about the quality of their utterences.

I'm sure LRH took drugs and was a devotee of Crowely's - this does not detract from the quality of the work he did. Nibs, by asserting that his father was on cocaine when he delivered the lectures, tries to devalue them and his father. But the lectures and the data in them stand on their own merits, and as a description of the state of man and the human condition I don't know of any piece of work which is remotely comparable to it. certainly nothing Croweley wrote compares to it for quality and for the intensity and depth of understanding revealed in it.

Nibs certainly did have a difficult life living in his father's shadow. All of his children did. But nearly all of Nibs's communications about his father are attempts to pull him down, to portray him as nothing more than a drug taking Crowelyite. Anyone who is content with this as a full portrayal of LRH as a person is massively deluded, and anyone who offers this as an adequate bio of him is trying desperately to delude others.

My only complaint about Nibs is that he played only his one-note tune ad nauseum and to total excess. LRH the villain, me the victim, sob sob. Has he nothing of his own to contribute?

LRH was an immensely complicated person. Multi-sided to an extreme. In order to understand Scientology one needs to unravel the subject itself out of the complex morass that LRH was. Veda quotes the gag about him calling himself the Prince of Darkness. On that same tape LRH makes the point very strongly that any student of Scientology needs to be able to differentiate between the subject itself and LRH's opinions on the subject and the randomities he indulges in in life, between when he is explaining fundamentals and when he is cracking jokes.

Anyone who fails to do this winds up in a confused mess of thinking that every HCOB and P/L and Order that he gave are all of equal value and are all valid "tech", and he never achieves any understanding of what Scientology really is. And these are not of equal value. Many things he wrote are complete rubbish and are 180 degrees the reverse of what Scio is. One needs to examine the data, evaluate it, and so on, and not fall into the trap of thinking that if LRH wrote it then it must be true and good, even when he presented them as being "Scientology". (which they often weren't)


Surely all this is fundamental. I can't believe that I'm the only one who recognises this.

Unfortunately, Leon, this is what the current COS executives seem to put into practice, if not actually believe. :no:
 
Shareing some of Ida's writing...

"21 Jun 2001

Dear Son

As I check the calendar I see the date of June 20 registered there. This is a date with many memories--this the fortieth anniversary of your fathers death and the twenty fourth anniversary of your signing of the "disconnect" letter. In that you saw fit to publish your last letter to me (or about me) for the world to see, I felt this one should meet the same fate--thus I make it public.

This is a difficult letter to write as I realize we no longer "know' each other. I saw you for a moment about fifteen years ago, however only a hello and you were gone. I asked to come see you when you were so very ill a few years ago, however I was told that you did not care to see me. I waited in terror until I knew you were going to survive.

I have never been one to sit around letting life just pass me by. When you decided to check me out of your life via the disconnect, I realized that the relationshiop we had in the past was over. This did not stop me from loving you and thinking of you each moment that has passed. I fill my mind with remembering the good times while constatnly learning about the present times.

My head is filled with memories of your growing to be a man, coming home with great report cards, you reading into the wee hours, holidays with all of us together, the phone calls, your love of Edison and your laugh when I called to remind you of his birthday , your trying to teach me to put "english" on my pool shot, making the birthday cakes , your pride in starting your first business, there are so many memories but then my hope is that you are able to remember them too.

What "could" have been is over and now in these last years of my life I keep as active as possible and I know in my heart that these past events have occurred for a reason. Could it be because I would not let my pride stand in the way of exposing this pain to the public? Could it be because my father taught me "when you know in your heart that something is dead wrong and you do not make any effort to make it right --that is sin.".His words echo in my head each time I am so weary when I get a call for help that I think how easy it would be to just pass the problem on and I am ashamed to think I would not be there for whoever needed a lift and a kind word. So please son, do not think a nasty letter with less than the truth published, is going to make me cringe from the "fair game" or will the strange phone calls frighten me. My home and heart will be a haven for anyone who has felt the sting and infringment of a destructive cult resulting in the loss of a loved one or denying one a right to free speech.

The effort to discredit me with the people in this community has failed.

Perhaps I should be thankful as it proved again how far the organization that you have devoted over twenty five years of your life would go to silence just one person. I had a wonderful civics teacher in the eighth grade son, she was a great believer in the exercise of free speech. I remember every word she taught us. It is a pleasure to associate my life with those that believe that free speech is meant for everyone--not just those with what may be temporary and supposed power!

Sincerely,
Mother

Ida J. Camburn
Hemet, California"

And Magoo's videotaped interview with Ida last year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EfTU8ss39o

"Don't sit around whinen', DO something!" :coolwink:
 
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Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thanks for all of the good wishes recieved.

I'm gratified to learn that overseas engineers and townplanners are taking an interest in Christchurch all of a sudden because the the very low effect that the earthquake has had on us - this in comparison to similar sized quakes in other parts of the world. So it seems as though good things are going to come out of this!
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
This is very true, Leon. Many of those most embittered and unwilling to acknowledge the positives as well as the negatives about Hubbard evidently do so out of a need to lessen their own responsibility for what they, as adults, put themselves and their families through and accordingly have endured.

An unwillingness to acknowledge and address ALL aspects of Hubbard marks such individuals out as not credible in their testimony. They are unreliable witnesses being caught up still by a primary need to deny their own level of responsibility for what has occurred. It is much more convenient to label Hubbard as an evil satanist crowleyite and abjure any responsibility for their own actions.


Mark A. Baker


^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^^^:thumbsup:
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
I was there at the time. I have posted on it on the other Apollo thread.

I knew Peter Warren too - in fact I shared a cabin with him for the entire five months I was on the ship. He never spoke about his work though - he was the ships rep. Joni was a Belgian girl, I forget het original surname but she later married Bertie van Hoeke. They both worked on AODK Tours under Owen Starkey (Norman's older and more sane brother).

Susan was Course Admin while I was there. I had no idea then that she was so new to the subject - clearly as green as can be and bedazzled by the bullshit. The cabin behind the bridge was Amos Jessup's. They were having a 2D relationship of some sort. (Who you shagged was your own business in those days)
 
Thank you Leon! :) I feel compassion for what her family went through...imagine being told she "probably died of cholera" with a gunshot wound to her head! And what the Dad went through trying to get info and her body to bury. Reminds me of that movie, "Missing".
 
Okay, Mr Cynical. I guess you're right in a way because I wouldn't value a man who thinks that "for a woman a man is only an accessory item", nor do I "prefer the sort about whom they can complain to their friends and thus elicit sympathy for themselves". From what you say it sounds like you just might be that "sort", that you think women prefer. It also appears that you have a very low opinion of women. I don't think you know much about women.

Wrong as usual. :D

You really should be careful about leaping to conclusions. :yes:


Mark A. Baker
 

Leon

Gold Meritorious Patron
Thank you Leon! :) I feel compassion for what her family went through...imagine being told she "probably died of cholera" with a gunshot wound to her head! And what the Dad went through trying to get info and her body to bury. Reminds me of that movie, "Missing".


There was a cholera epidemic in Morroco at the time. We all on board were given anti-cholera shots for it. So I guess it was a useful ploy.
 

Veda

Sponsor
The 12 February 1967 Policy Letter 'Admin Know-How, the Responsibility of Leaders' -a.k.a. The Bolivar Policy Letter - on the topic of how a subordinate should relate to his "power" (i.e. Hubbard and the "Organization."):

"[The power asks] 'What are those dead bodies doing at the door'. And if you [the subordinate] are clever, you never let it be known HE [the power] killed them - that weakens you and also hurts the power source. 'Well, boss about all those dead bodies, nobody at all will suppose you did it. She over there, those pink legs sticking out, didn't like me'. 'Well', he'll say if he really is a power, 'Why are you bothering me with it if it's done and you did it. Where's my blue ink?...

"...always push power in the direction of anyone on whose power you depend. It may be more money for the power, or more ease, or a snarling defense of the power to the critic, or even the dull thud of one of his enemies in the dark, or the glorious blaze of a whole enemy camp as a birthday surprise...

"...Real powers are developed by tight conspiracies of this kind... and if they are right and also manage their man [the power] and keep him from collapsing from overwork, bad temper or bad data, a kind of juggernaut builds up."


http://www.xenu-directory.net/victims/meister1.html

A bullet hole in the middle of her forehead, but no powder burns.

Oh well, Susan Meister was just another down stat, low on the responsibility scale.
 

Ogsonofgroo

Crusader
http://www.xenu-directory.net/victims/meister1.html

A bullet hole in the middle of her forehead, but no powder burns.

Oh well, Susan Meister was just another down stat, low on the responsibility scale.

people don't generally shoot themselves in the forehead, if ever. with a hand gun. By all accounts a covered up murder imho, hope some real cops take it on one day, along with the other mystery deaths.
The doors of CoS' closets of skeletons is bulging and the hinges are rusting.
 

Hatshepsut

Crusader
Y
Yes, this is true. :yes:

Mostly because there is very little "market" for them. It's a matter of "suppy vs. demand". Women don't actually value men much. They prefer the sort about whom they can complain to their friends and thus elicit sympathy for themselves.

For a woman a man is only an accessory item.


Mark A. Baker

I see you are from Southern California. Your observations about women being motivatorish and very plastic resound all the way over to the East coast. My brother just flew in to Ohio from Orange County and has been single for years. From the reality tv shows I think there is a different breed out there. They have executive outcomes in mind for their investments across the boards. A meeting of financial partnerships in a marriage is as important as having a loving partner who supports you.
 
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