The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[FoTi]

I seem to remember this being really big amongst exes in Orlando. I KNOW the name Jim Humble too. I cannot recall who it was that was so good at explaining all the wonders of it. I WILL check this out FoTi. Thanks girl. I already got the lowdown on it long ago and forgot about it as I do not get sick much. It is only in the last five yrs that I seem to have gotten alergy symptoms.

If you're going to try the MMS, make sure that you also buy the book by Jim Humble. The second half of the book has alot of different things you can use it for and different ways to use it.

 

[Hatshepsut]

OK

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Mid Winter Greetings!

Hello again everybody!! Still doing my mest work and the weather is cooperating...so all is good in my world, except for I miss you guys!!!

I'll get caught up one of these days...

Love ya lots! Play nicely with each other, now!

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Ahhh - yes. The ole "you're a victim" tactic, that perennial favourite of Scientologists everywhere. Yep, no doubt about it, Ted, seven year old Derek Green "pulled it in" when L Ron Hubbard shut him into the chain locker aboard the Apollo. Just as well there were no bellyaching, complaining, or ethical Scientologists on board in those days. Up-tone all the way . . . hip hip hooray. And never mind anyone who sees a celebration of those times as akin to a dining room conversation at the home for retired Belsen gas fitters.

Blip,

The picture above was taken around 1970. The baby is now 6'2" wears shorts to work, geeky t shirts, Caterpillar (brand) high top work boots, several days growth of stubble, and an earring... to work. Work, because he is a high school graduate (barely by the skin of his teeth) earns him a comfortable mid 6 figures salary. He's our child. Two Scientologists, at that particular date on the calendar.

The girl holding him was about 5 in the picture. She was living with us. Her parents were divorcing, so we raised her for a couple of years. Within a year of when this picture was taken, she was taken to the Flagship, Apollo, by her parental units. Shortly after that, she was a Commodore's Messenger. One night at 2 AM, the Commodore found her asleep outside his stateroom. He had her put in the chain locker for a week. His messages were that important. (dripping in sarcasm)

That girl is now in her mid 40s and still in the Sea Org. We get cards and letters from her, and see her every now and again. She has a child over 21, also in the Sea Org. If you want to talk about tragedy, that is full blown tragedy.

What this thread is not at all about though, is the "ain't it awful" -- it is awful. I have no disagreement there.

It is a picture postcard sent from friends to those still in. Remember when your parents got pictures of the neighbors visiting Disneyland, Notre Dame, Le Tour Eiffel, Mexico City, etc. The postcards were meant to draw you there.

This thread doesn't get in anyone's face and say Scientology is the boogie man. This is a thread of people, not unlike Mary Maren Freeman, who use parts of Scientology in their life. It is a good place to read of wins, transformation, kick ass times, sickness and sanity. Any Scientologist on staff would find most of it entertaining, and some of it, a bit of information and tech driven analysis, that they can chew on. Getting someone to leave the "safety" of the Co$ doesn't happen overnight.

As pure contrast to the little girl above's growing up memories, I offer you some of my kids.

what we are offering on this thread is a holographic vision for others to copy, and make their own with their families. There are plenty of threads where the insanity is full blown on display. This is not that thread. These are not the droids you're looking for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHi5O5xiqAU&feature=related

 

[Mark A. Baker]

... what we are offering on this thread is a holographic vision for others to copy, and make their own with their families. There are plenty of threads where the insanity is full blown on display. This is not that thread. These are not the droids you're looking for. ...

Perhaps, but it IS the only place where anyone will pay him the least bit of attention.


Mark A. Baker

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Perhaps, but it IS the only place where anyone will pay him the least bit of attention.


Mark A. Baker

anyone, who can rub two brain cells together, and play nicely (most of the time) is welcome here.

The New Colossus

By Emma Lazarus, 1883

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

 

[Infinite]

Carmelo

Very touching. Your children are fortunate to have escaped the usual fate of most youngsters caught in the Scientology trap.

I don't stick my oar in here very often. I'm only prompted to do so when I see the "up-tone group think" ignoring fact, hypocrisy and/or seeking a revisionist view of history. You will note also, I'm sure, I only give as good as I get.

Your post raises an interesting question for me. When seeking an end to the abuse wrought by Scientology, is it better to stridently depict the whole subject as evil or is it better to paint a softer, kinder image so as to draw cult members into reaching out or, at least, commence thinking. Both approach has definite pros and cons and I think the answer is a mix of both. There's plenty of room in this thread for both styles, and more, with all tempering the other. ESMB - and all its threads - is open to comment from all members and each opion is equally valid. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle of the conversation.

I am reminded of a wise comment from TaJ. He said:

My last words on Scientology is this:

Scientology has implanted two bad ideas in our heads that still seem to stick to some.

The first idea is that we can know and understand everything and that certainty is a good state of mind.

All we can ever know and understand is limited, particular to ourselves, and contingent on the time and place and context.

And the devastating other idea is that of certainty.

Certainty, I have found, cuts off looking and learning and experiencing life. Certainty promotes hubris.

As Voltaire said "Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."

Certainty is worship of present thinking. Someone who is certain closes down any further perspective of things in an ever changing world.

Certainty creates a disregard for history, callow judgments, and superficial understanding.

Certainty is the naive conviction that one's own thoughts are the only ones worth knowing.

If you are absolutely certain of something, then you have probably overlooked something else.

Seeking to silence dissent or argument you find objectionable only hinders a search for truth and further strengthens Scientology-induced certainty. By all means carry on with your "holographic vision" but remember this: a hologram is an illusion.

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

One of the few poems I have memorized,

Purposes And Plans

Purposes and plans,
For the destiny of man,
In the hands of powers,
Who fear to comprehend,
It could be the downfall,
It may mean the end.

With sails set full
We must tack against the storm
Between riptide and whirlpools
A deadhead does us harm
Thrown off course all hope is lost
The panicked strive for any path
Tread upon the lives it cost
Someone reaches the helm at last
But with no course in mind
Turns to ride the waves
An earnest voice calls from behind
'You know not what you do!
Within you dwells the fear of sea,
We shall not make it through!'
Softly spoke the helmsman
'This is our destiny,'
And sure enough he sank the ship
And set their spirits free.

So the ship sank,
You live to hear
You live still
Realizing or just seeing
The words here.
Did you swim?
Do your thoughts fly?
Can we live forever?
Do you accept we die?
If you do,
Do you cry?
Have you ever found happiness
In a sigh?
Are you sad when your hopes die?
Can you hear the thoughts of yesterday?
Are you pulled away
So you may never say
I felt today?
If the movement makes your head spin,
Someone is lost
Where we have been.
Tis only a a thought,
Small or large,
You have to seek the answers,
But ask no member of man,
For the feelings there.
The people of earth,
Animals of reality,
Can only be,
Figures of life.
And yet some who are inside
Lose to ones who speak louder.

(by SMS, passed on with permission, no copy rights)

All on whatever path you choose, let it be your own now.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Carmelo

Very touching. Your children are fortunate to have escaped the usual fate of most youngsters caught in the Scientology trap.

I don't stick my oar in here very often. I'm only prompted to do so when I see the "up-tone group think" ignoring fact, hypocrisy and/or seeking a revisionist view of history. You will note also, I'm sure, I only give as good as I get.

Your post raises an interesting question for me. When seeking an end to the abuse wrought by Scientology, is it better to stridently depict the whole subject as evil or is it better to paint a softer, kinder image so as to draw cult members into reaching out or, at least, commence thinking. Both approach has definite pros and cons and I think the answer is a mix of both. There's plenty of room in this thread for both styles, and more, with all tempering the other. ESMB - and all its threads - is open to comment from all members and each opion is equally valid. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle of the conversation.

I am reminded of a wise comment from TaJ. He said:



Seeking to silence dissent or argument you find objectionable only hinders a search for truth and further strengthens Scientology-induced certainty. By all means carry on with your "holographic vision" but remember this: a hologram is an illusion.

I would say that life is an illusion. We create it. That is a long walk down Indian philosophy.

Mainly, respect goes a long way. When I visit my friends, who are in the SO, I don't diss them. I respect them and admire them. I let them talk. They are the ones I am reaching for. But if I reach, I'll push them away, so I talk about anything from the good old days to OT phenomena. I keep it real to them, not necessarily me. Truth goes a long way. But bitter truth on top of bitter long suppressed truth doesn't even impinge. It goes right by.

I got addicted going through the fambly photos, so I'm going to bore you with some more. I'd say at least half of the people pictured are / were Class Vl or Class Vlll. These are photos that people who slave for the most ethical group on the planet do not have.

PS: you should definitely tell outsiders about the cult, and not mince words.

but if you're talking to someone who has "sucker" tattooed on their forehead. That isn't going to get you anything.

 

[Infinite]

anyone, who can rub two brain cells together, and play nicely (most of the time) is welcome here.

The New Colossus

By Emma Lazarus, 1883

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4ZyuULy9zs

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4ZyuULy9zs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daPpeLKdGSw

music is a terrific medium to convey hard truth.

 

[Dilettante]

I Love you guys. Pretty much. :confused2: Not much to add or anything smart or funny to say. Carmelo and Lakey feel better soon.
Dil

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Carmelo feel better soon.
Dil

he's speaking to me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UKhVRIi_yY

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

One of the few poems I have memorized,

Purposes And Plans

Purposes and plans,
For the destiny of man,
In the hands of powers,
Who fear to comprehend,
It could be the downfall,
It may mean the end.

With sails set full
We must tack against the storm
Between riptide and whirlpools
A deadhead does us harm
Thrown off course all hope is lost
The panicked strive for any path
Tread upon the lives it cost
Someone reaches the helm at last
But with no course in mind
Turns to ride the waves
An earnest voice calls from behind
'You know not what you do!
Within you dwells the fear of sea,
We shall not make it through!'
Softly spoke the helmsman
'This is our destiny,'
And sure enough he sank the ship
And set their spirits free.

So the ship sank,
You live to hear
You live still
Realizing or just seeing
The words here.
Did you swim?
Do your thoughts fly?
Can we live forever?
Do you accept we die?
If you do,
Do you cry?
Have you ever found happiness
In a sigh?
Are you sad when your hopes die?
Can you hear the thoughts of yesterday?
Are you pulled away
So you may never say
I felt today?
If the movement makes your head spin,
Someone is lost
Where we have been.
Tis only a a thought,
Small or large,
You have to seek the answers,
But ask no member of man,
For the feelings there.
The people of earth,
Animals of reality,
Can only be,
Figures of life.
And yet some who are inside
Lose to ones who speak louder.

(by SMS, passed on with permission, no copy rights)

All on whatever path you choose, let it be your own now.

You've got to have a dream; if you don't have a dream, how you gonna make that dream come true?

 

[Hatshepsut]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA1EqovahRw


I Have A Dream

by little Connie Talbot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn7LDUJUpi4

 

[Ogsonofgroo]

You've got to have a dream; if you don't have a dream, how you gonna make that dream come true?

Oh yarr Some dreams remain just that, dreams, other can grow into fruition (I am dreaming of cake, and Imma gonna bake one soon!)

 

[RogerB]

Carmelo

Very touching. Your children are fortunate to have escaped the usual fate of most youngsters caught in the Scientology trap.

Snipped . . .

Seeking to silence dissent or argument you find objectionable only hinders a search for truth and further strengthens Scientology-induced certainty. By all means carry on with your "holographic vision" but remember this: a hologram is an illusion.

No one is trying to silence "dissent" . . . . we are endeavoring to remind you of the courtesies and good manners that have been a hallmark of this thread . . . . and the very valid point that honey catches more flies than vinegar.

R

 

[Ted]

Searching for Truth

It used to puzzle me how people could argue over truth. Discourtesy, disrespect, firefights, fisticuffs, guns, knives, bombs, sanctions, embargoes, ... These things come to bear in "support" of truth. This is crazy stuff, I say. I have a conclusion with which I am content:

There is no argument over Truth. If people argue, they argue over facts or their perception and evaluation of facts. People argue over divergent points of view. When it comes to Truth, there is no argument possible.

I knew an old hillbilly whose mother used to assert, "Right is right; wrong is wrong. The Truth will stand when the world is on fire." I agree.

Here's the deal: Facts are observable. Time, place, form, event, the stuff of the physical universe that can be measured if not agreed upon. Facts are objective. People's perceptions can be shaky, inaccurate. Their evaluation of fact can be flawed and/or biased by thoughts they hold near and dear.

Truth, on the other hand, is subjective. It is native to a being. My truth and your truth might be aligned or might be totally unaligned. Trying to assert truth into the objective universe(s) and/or another's universe does not a fact make. Yet people do that. They go about asserting their truth trying to make it fact. So we have discourtesy, disrespect, firefights, fisticuffs, guns, knives, bombs, sanctions, embargoes, ...

 

[Infinite]

No one is trying to silence "dissent" . . . . we are endeavoring to remind you of the courtesies and good manners that have been a hallmark of this thread . . . . and the very valid point that honey catches more flies than vinegar.

R

One person's courtesy and good manners is another person's gradient step to agreement. You stick to your honey, I'll stick to my vinegar, and, you know what, when the two blend, we will have a natural antiseptic; a veritable harmony of goodness brought together by opposites.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmALA8miQY8

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

It used to puzzle me how people could argue over truth. Discourtesy, disrespect, firefights, fisticuffs, guns, knives, bombs, sanctions, embargoes, ... These things come to bear in "support" of truth. This is crazy stuff, I say. I have a conclusion with which I am content:

There is no argument over Truth. If people argue, they argue over facts or their perception and evaluation of facts. People argue over divergent points of view. When it comes to Truth, there is no argument possible.

I knew an old hillbilly whose mother used to assert, "Right is right; wrong is wrong. The Truth will stand when the world is on fire." I agree.

Here's the deal: Facts are observable. Time, place, form, event, the stuff of the physical universe that can be measured if not agreed upon. Facts are objective. People's perceptions can be shaky, inaccurate. Their evaluation of fact can be flawed and/or biased by thoughts they hold near and dear.

Truth, on the other hand, is subjective. It is native to a being. My truth and your truth might be aligned or might be totally unaligned. Trying to assert truth into the objective universe(s) and/or another's universe does not a fact make. Yet people do that. They go about asserting their truth trying to make it fact. So we have discourtesy, disrespect, firefights, fisticuffs, guns, knives, bombs, sanctions, embargoes, ...

Wonderful, wonderful post, Ted…simply wonderful.

Face