The Little Thread Which Grew - the Apollo '73 to Everything But

[Jachs]

The severity and stiffness of Madam Starkey

When i first came to this board, i saw someones signature line about love and beauty, didnt get it.

I took a look at the Qabalah tree of life for the first time in many years, the flow lines, what happens if you out of balance. chasing Victory is a fools death card that comes up on the Qabalah, same as severity,( anal perfection, stiffness of character), and chasing knowledge too, Bending your mind against the natural urge of your heart for the greater good.

I saw these words such as severity, mercy, justice, Victory.

I checked the definitions again, and i saw strict adherence,

Severity 1. strictness; harshness 3. rigid accuracy 6. rigorous or trying character.

Mercy, compassionate behaviour on the part of those in power.

There are two columns at the top of the tree of life understanding and wisdom.In the middle is Beauty, This is purely a observation from the tree of life, you guys are probably way ahead of me on this, im not preaching.

I noticed Scn is all knowledge , little wisdom and the guys in power are all knowledge little wisdom ( beauty or compassion or true just actions to balance the thing out arent there), no way ever just, for a person giving their heart and soul to help mankind and then spat on as a criminal. If we treated children like this, god, we are all children wanting acceptance and compassion for the true efforts. Its these shock betrayals that make scn the lop sided group it is.

Thats why its doomed to fail, no matter how many big buildings, promises, programs, plans, cash, intention, the tide of actual experience of those maimed, will start to smother it. Until it starts to flow love and compassion, its slide inevitable.

Madam Starkey way outa kilter, same as the policy.

.True wisdom is everybody wins everytime, there are no shocks , hammers, poundings, guilt, worry, the wise man/woman factors in this, compassion granted everytime.You know when its all smooth a person of compassion is right there by your side no matter what.

Its not a fairytale , it just gets forgotten.

.

 

[Ted]

The severity and stiffness of Madam Starkey

When i first came to this board, i saw someones signature line about love and beauty, didnt get it.

I took a look at the Qabalah tree of life for the first time in many years, the flow lines, what happens if you out of balance. chasing Victory is a fools death card that comes up on the Qabalah, same as severity,( anal perfection, stiffness of character), and chasing knowledge too, Bending your mind against the natural urge of your heart for the greater good.

I saw these words such as severity, mercy, justice, Victory.

I checked the definitions again, and i saw strict adherence,

Severity 1. strictness; harshness 3. rigid accuracy 6. rigorous or trying character.

Mercy, compassionate behaviour on the part of those in power.

There are two columns at the top of the tree of life understanding and wisdom.In the middle is Beauty, This is purely a observation from the tree of life, you guys are probably way ahead of me on this, im not preaching.

I noticed Scn is all knowledge , little wisdom and the guys in power are all knowledge little wisdom ( beauty or compassion or true just actions to balance the thing out arent there), no way ever just, for a person giving their heart and soul to help mankind and then spat on as a criminal. If we treated children like this, god, we are all children wanting acceptance and compassion for the true efforts. Its these shock betrayals that make scn the lop sided group it is.

Thats why its doomed to fail, no matter how many big buildings, promises, programs, plans, cash, intention, the tide of actual experience of those maimed, will start to smother it. Until it starts to flow love and compassion, its slide inevitable.

Madam Starkey way outa kilter, same as the policy.

.True wisdom is everybody wins everytime, there are no shocks , hammers, poundings, guilt, worry, the wise man/woman factors in this, compassion granted everytime.You know when its all smooth a person of compassion is right there by your side no matter what.


.

That's exactly right. Beginning with Dianetics where the analytical is lauded, Scientology is all head-talk, no heart. Processes are taken to the head for cognition. Imagine the difference it would make if processes were taken to the heart for EP. Even in ARCX assessment, a broken heart is "repaired" by taking it to the head to justify the ARCX or otherwise explain it away or agree with the auditor that it was no big deal. The actual source and cause of the upset does not get addressed until, maybe, later.

"Ethics are reason." Take that to the head.

The data series, this is how to "think," how to evaluate, how to program. It's all head-talk.

Service facs, domination, subjugation, more head-talk.

Compassion comes from the heart. I have to look long and hard to find it in organized scientology. Yes, you will find it in auditors, mainly ones out of the organization, but you won't find it in the organization too often. You only get heard if your stats are up or if you you have seen the registrar first.

Policy is reasonableness with the heart. The heart can be reasoned right out of existence.

 

[Jachs]

Yeah thanks Ted, thats right on, scn is littered with head talk, i also have seen it in the ethics book too, arent ideals love above ethics or the greatest good, apparently not.

Alot of Scios ive known had the deep love to help and then the love was squashed , a stark world just like the tree on SOS.I guess thats what is ,an SOS.

The cold hard truth of clinical observation. He did say it was a science.

I also see the truth in what you say about the good auditors, who probably grew up in a very loving family, that loving ,just ,compassionate foundation makes the difference. That IS THE true reality feeling warmth, intimacy.

I didnt ever hear Ron say if his mother and father loved him dearly.

The more i see the more i see.great quote that> The heart can be reasoned right out of existence.
1

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

That is quite a story Carmelo! The picture you painted of what happened is not a very pretty one. I am curious as to whether you have ever had this incident cleaned up properly either later on during your career as an active Scio member or if not then, then more recently by one of the many auditors who you have stayed in contact with after leaving C of S?

If so, I would like to hear about that and if not, then there are certainly plenty of auditors available aounrd now who would do it for you.
Lakey

there is no charge on this. no interest either.

I've made plenty of mistakes in my life, this didn't even rate.

 

[lkwdblds]

Good points about head vs heart!

That's exactly right. Beginning with Dianetics where the analytical is lauded, Scientology is all head-talk, no heart. Processes are taken to the head for cognition. Imagine the difference it would make if processes were taken to the heart for EP. Even is ARCX assessment, a broken heart is "repaired" by taking it to the head to justify the ARCX or otherwise explain it away or agree with the auditor that it was no big deal. The actual source and cause of the upset does not get addressed until, maybe, later.

"Ethics are reason." Take that to the head.

The data series, this is how to "think," how to evaluate, how to program. It's all head-talk.

Service facs, domination, subjugation, more head-talk.

Compassion comes from the heart. I have to look long and hard to find it in organized scientology. Yes, you will find it in auditors, mainly ones out of the organization, but you won't find it in the organization too often. You only get heard if your stats are up or if you you have seen the registrar first.

Policy is reasonableness with the heart. The heart can be reasoned right out of existence.

First, thanks to Carmelo for answering my earlier question.

Very interesting comments by Ted about head vs heart. I tend to agree. It is interesting to note that the para-psychology friends I made last year all go to the Unity Universal Church and they are all raving about a class taught there called Heart Math. I checked it out last August or September when I was new to their group. It seemed interesting but didn't really grab me. It attributes an extreme amount of importance to the heart for things such as breathing and treats things which are hearfelt to be higher urges than what comes from the head or brain. Those people do not like to think with their heads but rather go with what their heart tells them.

As far as finding people with compassion in Scientology Organizations, there were many back at CCLA in the early 70's and also at ASHO in the mid 70's. People such as that, including myself, did not seem to rise up the Org Board to high level posts. We were kept in mid level positions where a particular skill which we had could be used or exploited. Several auditors were also kind hearted. One was Ty Dillard and another I mention below.

Typical examples of kind staff were Carole Ferguson as Staff Course Supervisor, me as Director of Disbursements, Henry Baumguard as Bookstore Officer, Dick Hubbard as mimeo or Sue, the wonderful compassionate auditor who ran me on Expanded Dianetics.

If one was compassionate, it made it difficult for them to reach high levels on the org Board but there were some exceptions. I always considered Heber Jentzsch a kind and compassionate person and he got to be very high and also I thought Irene Howey Derman was very compassionate underneath her stern exterior. Bob Harvey also had compassion and was highly posted.

Heber lost a lot of his luster with me when he became a spokesperson for Miscavige. When he defended the C of S so forcefully in interviews about the Lisa Mac Pherson case, he was repeatedly willing to lie. That and his continued loyalty to DM finally soured me on him but I'll tell you this, he was an extremely compassionate and decent person for many years.

The thing with Irene is that she was kind hearted but had the ability to change to a very tough, no nonsense, Sea Org bulldog type of personality at a moments notice. Bob Harvey got busted around late 1971 or early 1972. I read on the internet that he botched up an Elvis Presley reg cycle and got Elvis very upset about Scientology and for that he was sent to the Scio version of Siberia. No one ever heard from him again after early 1972.
Lakey

 

[Jachs]

Great recollections thanks for sharing them, they are always good to read. I guess you can go overboard both ways with the heart and the head.

Ive heard this before about Heber being compassionate.

Ouch on the Elvis cycle. We can all Cheer now, can you imagine the false boom.

I wonder if Bob Harvey has caught a good fish for his camp[fire in the wilderness , maybe he is in charge of the scott base scio mission where all the books were sent.(good firewood). Maybe Elvis is there with him swinging hips and living the quiet life toasting a bright horizon and tall tales of las vegas.



.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Jachss & Ted & Lakey.

Head is a tool; Heart is you.

Face

 

[lkwdblds]

Mystery bag of nuts!!

Last Tuesday, I went shopping at Trader Joes. Among other things, I purchased sliced almonds which come in a plastic or cellophane pouch. All my groceries fit into one large papger bag and I unloaded the bag when I got home, thinking that I put the nuts into my refrigerator. Thursday morning I made oat meal and went to get the bag of almonds to sprinkle them over my oat meal. To my surprise I could not find the almonds in my frig. It is a small frig, just standard apartment sized. I spent about 3 minutes looking everywhere in my frig, on the shelves inside the door, each large shelf and all the bins. That night, I wanted some almonds and decided to look again but still no almonds.

I thought maybe I left them in the bag I brought home. I went out to the trash bin and found the bag but there were no nuts in it. On Friday, I was in the pharmacy and they did not have almonds but they had walnuts so I decided to buy those instead and ate some on Friday and also Saturday morning.

Last night, Saturday, around 2:00 am I was writing on this thread and decided to go to bed but first decided to have a small snack, just a few raisins and a couple of pieces of walnuts before I went to bed. I was sleepy and not too alert and got up from my computer and walked to the kitchen and opened the refrigerator door and saw a plastic bag on one of the shelves of the inner door. I reached in and grabbed the plastic bag without looking at it and then got a carton of raisins from my cupboard and went back to the computer to eat the small snack of walnuts and raisins.

To my utter astonishment, the plastic bag I had in front of me was the unopened bag of ALMONDS!!! I was just shocked. I spent 3 or 4 minutes on two different occasions looking for the almonds in the frig in vain. Now, three days later, half asleep, I just reached into the frig, saw a plastic bag and without even looking at it, I selected the bag of almonds!

I still do not know how that happened or how it is possible. It is as if the almonds dematerialized for 3 days and then somehow rematerialized inside of my frig. Either that or perhaps my kids are correct and Alzheimer's disease is setting in. The incident just does not make any sense.
Lakey

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Last Tuesday, I went shopping at Trader Joes. Among other things, I purchased sliced almonds which come in a plastic or cellophane pouch. All my groceries fit into one large papger bag and I unloaded the bag when I got home, thinking that I put the nuts into my refrigerator. Thursday morning I made oat meal and went to get the bag of almonds to sprinkle them over my oat meal. To my surprise I could not find the almonds in my frig. It is a small frig, just standard apartment sized. I spent about 3 minutes looking everywhere in my frig, on the shelves inside the door, each large shelf and all the bins. That night, I wanted some almonds and decided to look again but still no almonds.

I thought maybe I left them in the bag I brought home. I went out to the trash bin and found the bag but there were no nuts in it. On Friday, I was in the pharmacy and they did not have almonds but they had walnuts so I decided to buy those instead and ate some on Friday and also Saturday morning.

Last night, Saturday, around 2:00 am I was writing on this thread and decided to go to bed but first decided to have a small snack, just a few raisins and a couple of pieces of walnuts before I went to bed. I was sleepy and not too alert and got up from my computer and walked to the kitchen and opened the refrigerator door and saw a plastic bag on one of the shelves of the inner door. I reached in and grabbed the plastic bag without looking at it and then got a carton of raisins from my cupboard and went back to the computer to eat the small snack of walnuts and raisins.

To my utter astonishment, the plastic bag I had in front of me was the unopened bag of ALMONDS!!! I was just shocked. I spent 3 or 4 minutes on two different occasions looking for the almonds in the frig in vain. Now, three days later, half asleep, I just reached into the frig, saw a plastic bag and without even looking at it, I selected the bag of almonds!

I still do not know how that happened or how it is possible. It is as if the almonds dematerialized for 3 days and then somehow rematerialized inside of my frig. Either that or perhaps my kids are correct and Alzheimer's disease is setting in. The incident just does not make any sense.
Lakey

Happens to me all the time, Lakey.

The good thing about Alzheimer's and Brain Damage is that you don't know you've got it.

Face

 

[Terril park]

Jachss & Ted & Lakey.

Head is a tool; Heart is you.

Face

Wonderful!

Per human and spiritual anatomy one needs both.

 

[FoTi]

Last Tuesday, I went shopping at Trader Joes. Among other things, I purchased sliced almonds which come in a plastic or cellophane pouch. All my groceries fit into one large papger bag and I unloaded the bag when I got home, thinking that I put the nuts into my refrigerator. Thursday morning I made oat meal and went to get the bag of almonds to sprinkle them over my oat meal. To my surprise I could not find the almonds in my frig. It is a small frig, just standard apartment sized. I spent about 3 minutes looking everywhere in my frig, on the shelves inside the door, each large shelf and all the bins. That night, I wanted some almonds and decided to look again but still no almonds.

I thought maybe I left them in the bag I brought home. I went out to the trash bin and found the bag but there were no nuts in it. On Friday, I was in the pharmacy and they did not have almonds but they had walnuts so I decided to buy those instead and ate some on Friday and also Saturday morning.

Last night, Saturday, around 2:00 am I was writing on this thread and decided to go to bed but first decided to have a small snack, just a few raisins and a couple of pieces of walnuts before I went to bed. I was sleepy and not too alert and got up from my computer and walked to the kitchen and opened the refrigerator door and saw a plastic bag on one of the shelves of the inner door. I reached in and grabbed the plastic bag without looking at it and then got a carton of raisins from my cupboard and went back to the computer to eat the small snack of walnuts and raisins.

To my utter astonishment, the plastic bag I had in front of me was the unopened bag of ALMONDS!!! I was just shocked. I spent 3 or 4 minutes on two different occasions looking for the almonds in the frig in vain. Now, three days later, half asleep, I just reached into the frig, saw a plastic bag and without even looking at it, I selected the bag of almonds!

I still do not know how that happened or how it is possible. It is as if the almonds dematerialized for 3 days and then somehow rematerialized inside of my frig. Either that or perhaps my kids are correct and Alzheimer's disease is setting in. The incident just does not make any sense.
Lakey

I've had stuff like this happen in my life as well......it always makes me wonder ..... what in the hell is going on? It never started to happen until I had a couple hundred hours of auditing at ASHO back in the 70's. Is this some sort of strange phenomenon?

Sometimes it really pisses me off and I feel like someone is messing with me......then I get really pissed off, I yell at it to "Knock it off" and it stops. :confused2:

I guess if someone was watching me when I do this they probably would think I'm nuts.

 

[lkwdblds]

Thanks Face and FoTi for commenting

I've had stuff like this happen in my life as well......it always makes me wonder ..... what in the hell is going on? It never started to happen until I had a couple hundred hours of auditing at ASHO back in the 70's. Is this some sort of strange phenomenon?

Sometimes it really pisses me off and I feel like someone is messing with me......then I get really pissed off, I yell at it to "Knock it off" and it stops. :confused2:

I guess if someone was watching me when I do this they probably would think I'm nuts.

Thanks FoTi and Face too for commenting. Somehow, if one knows others have had similar weird experiences it make a person feel better.
Lakey

 

[Auditor's Toad]

..."Either that or perhaps my kids are correct and Alzheimer's disease is setting in. The incident just does not make any sense...."

No, not Alzheimer's. And no it does not make any sense.

If you attest to perfection please give the rest of instructions on how to get there.

Meanwhile, welcome to life.

 

[Leon]

Years ago I had an ulcer and was put onto taking aluminium hydroxide for it. It buggered my memory completely while I was on it. There was one incident where I drove into the city (Cape Town) and parked my car. After doing what I had to do - about 2 or 3 hours of things - and I wanted to go back to the car. For the life of me I could not temember where it was. I was totally dumbfounded. Racking my brains was of no avail. In the end I had to walk that city centre flat going along every street and parking lot until I found the car. And when I did I still had no recall of parking it there. It was horrible. I knocked off the Alu Hydrox right there. Refused to have more of it ever.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Years ago I had an ulcer and was put onto taking aluminium hydroxide for it. It buggered my memory completely while I was on it. There was one incident where I drove into the city (Cape Town) and parked my car. After doing what I had to do - about 2 or 3 hours of things - and I wanted to go back to the car. For the life of me I could not temember where it was. I was totally dumbfounded. Racking my brains was of no avail. In the end I had to walk that city centre flat going along every street and parking lot until I found the car. And when I did I still had no recall of parking it there. It was horrible. I knocked off the Alu Hydrox right there. Refused to have more of it ever.

The Christmas of 1970 Elsa Kappelhof and I went to Sun Valley Mall (in Concord, California) an awful lot doing a lot of Christmas shopping and walking. One particular night, it was raining cats and dogs when the mall closed. I couldn't remember where I had parked the car. I had to walk / run up and down every aisle in the pouring rain looking at both sides of the lane. The mall is huge. I went up and down about 3/4 of the entire parking area before I found the car.

 

[FoTi]

The Christmas of 1970 Elsa Kappelhof and I went to Sun Valley Mall (in Concord, California) an awful lot doing a lot of Christmas shopping and walking. One particular night, it was raining cats and dogs when the mall closed. I couldn't remember where I had parked the car. I had to walk / run up and down every aisle in the pouring rain looking at both sides of the lane. The mall is huge. I went up and down about 3/4 of the entire parking area before I found the car.

I used to have a red flower tied to the antenae of my car and left it up in the air a bit, so it stuck up. It made it very easy to find my car in a sea of other cars in a parking area. The flower has since fallen off and I forgot all about it because I haven't been in an area with a lot of cars in a long time..... maybe I will get another flower. It gave my car personality.

 

[lkwdblds]

New Pictures from Party at Candy's 3-11-11

Here are some pictures from the party we had at Candy's house two nights ago on Friday March 11, 2011. The party was originally scheduled to be at Aida's house but she had to cancel because of some construction work starting at her house that day. Rather than cancel, we relocated the party to Candy's house but there was only 2 today's notice and not everyone got the message. Nevertheless we had a nice cordial gathering, ate a pleasant pot luck dinner with side dishes cooked by Candy and got to meet some new people.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Sunday Night Fish Fry

Lately for some reason I can't explain, I have become addicted to frying fish. i smother everything in copious amounts of fresh Meyer lemon juice. Here in California, they grow everywhere.

Last week I fried up Catfish, Tilapia, Swai, and Mahi Mahi. I fried them up with mesquite flavoring, cajun spices (one of Paul Prudhomme's mixes), and / or fresh ground pepper.

Tonight, I hit Safeway (a big chain of grocery stores) and bought red snapper, sole, raw shrimp, and salmon. Individually, I threw them in my black cast iron fry pan with a good supply of butter. I sprinkled pepper on the sole and the red snapper. Tonight, the sole got eaten and the rest is going to go into cioppino tomorrow.

Back when I was 20, and had my first house, I bought Craig Claiborne's "Kitchen Primer." Sole meuniére was the first fish I learned to cook that wasn't over a wood fire. To this day, my sole meuniére trumps any I've ever eaten in a restaurant. Last week I whipped it up for our daughter, when she arrived hungry. She loved it, and she is a food snob.

I know frying isn't as healthy as baking, barbequing, or raw. For some reason I've just got this yearning for fried fish. I love the process, and the product is yummy.

Tonight I did steamed asparagus to accompany the fish. It was a simple and perfect meal.

 

[lkwdblds]

New Pictures from Party at Candy's 3-11-11

Here are some pictures from the party we had at Candy's house two nights ago on Friday March 11, 2011. The party was originally scheduled to be at Aida's house but she had to cancel because of some construction work starting at her house that day. Rather than cancel, we relocated the party to Candy's house but there was only 2 day's notice and not everyone got the message. Nevertheless we had a nice cordial gathering, ate a pleasant pot luck dinner with side dishes cooked by Candy and got to meet some new people.


Picture #1 is Candy and Tory with a non Scientology friend of mine. Eddie in between them. Eddie is the guy who taught me accupressure.

Picture #2 is Candy and Tory with me in the middle

Picture #3 is Left to right - me, Boyfriend of lady to his right, Candy's friend, Eddie, Candy, Another friend, His wife.

Picture #4 is me talking to Candy's friend

Picture #5 is I.W. talking to Candy's friend pictured above.

Picture #6 is Candy with her two friends, husband and wife.

Piciture #7 is I.W., Candy, Her lady friend and Eddie

Lest there be no doubt, I had several nice chats with Don Keeler which all were very cordial. He actually pointed out two errors in my Origins of CCLA story. My story says that no one knows the actual opening date of CCLA but it was probably in February of 1970. Don told me that the Org opened in the Spring, so it probably opened for business in April and not February.

Candy had thought that she and Yvonne were the only two staff members for the first week or two and Candy was doing her own C/Sing and then Ellen Jones joined them as Candy's Case Supervisor. Candy also thought that Don Keeler joined them as the second C/S many months later. According to Don, and he was very certain about this, he was Candy's first C/S and not Ellen Jones. He said that he came in about a month after the Org started which would put his entry in May, and Ellen Jones came on as the second C/S about a year later. Also, when Don joined CC staff around May of 1970, he believes that Hector Carmona was already on staff as was Sam Loria. I am going to edit my CC Story of Origins thread and make these changes.

Also, I met Eddie at Jack LaLanne's gym in Lakewood in 1974. My Dad used to get massages from him. He is a licensed physical therapist and masseur and is the one who I learned accupressure massage from. He is from Columbia and has never been in Scientology but I got him to read the Dianetics book and also Problems of Work back in the 70's.
Lakey

 

[Ted]

First, thanks to Carmelo for answering my earlier question.

Very interesting comments by Ted about head vs heart. I tend to agree. It is interesting to note that the para-psychology friends I made last year all go to the Unity Universal Church and they are all raving about a class taught there called Heart Math. I checked it out last August or September when I was new to their group. It seemed interesting but didn't really grab me. It attributes an extreme amount of importance to the heart for things such as breathing and treats things which are hearfelt to be higher urges than what comes from the head or brain. Those people do not like to think with their heads but rather go with what their heart tells them.

[...]

As with many things, balance is important. Neither head nor heart is all important in the business of living. All head vs no heart makes a person analytical, aloof, dispassionate, ruthless--greatest good for the greatest number, and, in that thought, thoroughly justified. All heart makes a person an easy target, easily walked on, easily taken for a ride. Taken to extremes, a person could wind up on a cross wearing a crown of thorns.