Do you have ANY Photos of the Old Celebrity Center Days???

[FoTi]

For some reason, I feel compelled to expand on the following statement I made in post #93 on this thread;

“Sometimes I did things that were against my basic nature or better judgment because I was ordered to, or hounded and pounded on to and sometimes (especially when I was a newbie) was just plain chicken.”

At the point I “bought into” Scn, “The Bridge”, “Clear” and “OT” as real I was, unawares at that moment, “had”. I wasn’t afraid of anyone on a one on one basis but I was afraid of what their actions, and my response, meant to "the future" and my “future”.

As a Newbie--having had some HUGE wins in Auditing--I thought, “Wow, ‘this’ is real.” At that point I not only wanted to go “Clear” and “OT”, I had an intense desire for others to have “Wins” like mine.

As the years rolled by I went after “It” with all that I had within me, went up the “Grade Chart”, subsequently wound up at Flag and interacted with El Ron and all the “OT’s” there. Over that time I realized that not only were the “OT Levels” bogus but also the fact that El Ron knew it and wasn’t what Hisself presented as being.

For a number of years my great fear was that my whole agonized future and that of Mankind depended on what I did now and here in Scientology. That false fear and self enforced lie drove me to do things that I never imagined doing. My deepest fears were not about the current moment, they were about the future and "letting down others", and folks I’m here to tell you that really F’d with my head.

Face

PS: My apologies to all for going so completely off topic on this Thread.

Totally get this. That's about where I was coming from too.

 

[TG1]

Just want to say (although I had no personal connection to CC while I was in) that this is a very interesting thread.

TG1

 

[Auditor's Toad]

The old days at CC were memorable.
Didn't have a camera back in those days to now have tapes of the skits....dang it!

Ah, back when humor was appreciated.....and used.

Funny things like so many people in a room doing Op by dup that you had to time getting over to the bottle so there would be a bottle there when you gave the command.

Or standing there waiting for someone yo put the bottle down so you could tell your PV to pick it up.

Some of us now old folks were oh so young back then...... and so many have died.

A name came to mind from back then Bev Inan....she later joiyylandned to SO and went to Gold doing costumes.....anyone know what became of her ? She had worked at Disneyland doing costumes.

I know Donna Haber ended up with David Mayo in Santa Barbara. I guess she was still with Harvey. Lost track of them after that.

Dean Blehart is still writing poetry - and still active in the group.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

As the years rolled by I went after “It” with all that I had within me, went up the “Grade Chart”, subsequently wound up at Flag and interacted with El Ron and all the “OT’s” there. Over that time I realized that not only were the “OT Levels” bogus but also the fact that El Ron knew it and wasn’t what Hisself presented as being.

Face,

Three things. If you don't mind me asking, were there a few specific events or road markers that made you come to that conclusion finally? Were there a few signal, defining moments for you when you look back. (If you've already chronicled these in your past stories, just tell me and I'll go back and read through them again.)

Also, the other day you read one of my posts and I thought I might have unleashed some yet unvoiced and fantastic commentary by you.

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Originally Posted by lkwdblds
VERY VERY NICE WAY OF LOOKING AT THINGS!!! A 60 YEAR PILOT PROJECT WHERE THE RESEARCH ENDED IN THE EARLY 1980'S AND NOW THE TRUE RESULTS, WITHOUT ALL THE HYPE AND PR, ARE COMING OUT ON THE INTERNET. AN ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC AND BRILLIANT SUMMATION!!!
Lakey

Yes!!! Absolutely B-R-I-L-L-I-A-N-T ILove2Lurk!

Got a few more things to say but they'll have to wait 'till tomorrow. Face
​

If so, I'd like to hear what you had thought. Could be greatness coming from you again.

And thirdly, you said today you'd met a lot of "old timers" over the years. I presume that's pre-60's people. Did any of them exhibit any notable case states or signs of "OT-ness?"

Have I compounded the sin of "going so completely off topic on this Thread" and should I be apologizing?

Your comments are just so intriguing!!

ILove2Lurk

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Face has provided so many insights into what was going on.

If going 'off topic' is what it is...........please bring it on !

It is, after all, a history that had a direct bearing on what we experienced - the good, the bad, and the ugly.

I like hearing it all.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

Face,

Three things. If you don't mind me asking, were there a few specific events or road markers that made you come to that conclusion finally? Were there a few signal, defining moments for you when you look back. (If you've already chronicled these in your past stories, just tell me and I'll go back and read through them again.)

Also, the other day you read one of my posts and I thought I might have unleashed some yet unvoiced and fantastic commentary by you.

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Originally Posted by lkwdblds
VERY VERY NICE WAY OF LOOKING AT THINGS!!! A 60 YEAR PILOT PROJECT WHERE THE RESEARCH ENDED IN THE EARLY 1980'S AND NOW THE TRUE RESULTS, WITHOUT ALL THE HYPE AND PR, ARE COMING OUT ON THE INTERNET. AN ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC AND BRILLIANT SUMMATION!!!
Lakey

Yes!!! Absolutely B-R-I-L-L-I-A-N-T ILove2Lurk!

Got a few more things to say but they'll have to wait 'till tomorrow. Face
​

If so, I'd like to hear what you had thought. Could be greatness coming from you again.

And thirdly, you said today you'd met a lot of "old timers" over the years. I presume that's pre-60's people. Did any of them exhibit any notable case states or signs of "OT-ness?"

Have I compounded the sin of "going so completely off topic on this Thread" and should I be apologizing?

Your comments are just so intriguing!!

ILove2Lurk

ILove2Lurk,

RE: El Ron and the “OT” Levels…

It wasn’t any one big thing per se but mostly being constantly around Hisself and highly trained “OT’s and observing that they were just as “Human” as the rest of us. Some of these folks had a lot of “horsepower” but it wasn’t something beyond what I had seen from high octane “Wogs”. Some of the “OT’s” were actually quite pathetic and goofy, which really got me to thinking. Seeing a few relatively young “OT’s” die of Cancer and how that was "handled" was significant to me as was El Ron’s Heart Attack and how Hisself reacted to it.

But, more than anything, it was just being around El Ron and on Hisself’s lines and seeing how El Ron treated people and knowing some of what Hisself actually said and thought about people “behind closed doors” that really got to me over time. The same is true for many of the Uber “OT’s” at Flag and in Scn.

Also, as I progressed to some of the “Higher” Levels of the Grade Chart, I knew that they weren’t all that they were cracked up to be.

My thoughts about all the above are kinda sprinkled here and there in my ESMB writings and my early posts about the “Power of Source” Album on the “Shooting Stars” Thread gives some of details of El Ron in action that planted the seeds of doubt. Also, there’s a few Links to some of the “Shooting Stars” Posts that tell a few other stories of petty, mean spirited and stupid stuff I saw El Ron do.

RE: Your post on the Apollo Thread…

I apologize that I am easily distracted and haven’t responded yet. Actually, my thoughts re: Pilot Project are still kinda brewin’ in me rumen and I’ll probably be a day or two for the brew to fully ferment and then I’ll regurgitate on the Apollo Thread (my goodness, that was disgustingly graphic analogy, wasn’t it?).

RE: The Oldtimers…

They were pre and early ‘60’s folks. Some of them were very F’d up and some knew and applied “White Scn” far better than El Ron. I didn’t see any of them knock off a hat at 40 paces or anything like that but some had a real “clean, calm and serene” presence, were lighthearted and “real”, and you just felt better after talking to them or being around them for a little while. I think the folks from that era ran the entire gamut, just like the folks of my era did.

Most of them thought that the “Old Days” were more open, free and fun before El Ron created Hisself’s organizational monstrosity. They also knew, first hand, that El Ron was not the sole, single “Source” of the “Tech”.

Thanks for going off topic with me...it's folks like you, Toady and so many others here that have helped me so much by "waking the echos" of memories that not long ago were inaccessible. Recalling and telling what I know has been immensely helpful to me and I am continually touched that it is helpful and of value to others.

Face

 

[Auditor's Toad]

<snip>
Recalling and telling what I know has been immensely helpful to me and I am continually touched that it is helpful and of value to others.
Face

For me, and I can only speak for me , what you have posted has been more helpful and more value to me than I will ever have words to adqueately express. Thank you doesn't even begin to cover it.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

For me, and I can only speak for me , what you have posted has been more helpful and more value to me than I will ever have words to adqueately express. Thank you doesn't even begin to cover it.

Face, having read EVERY post you've written once or twice and mostly in sequence as they were laid down, I second what Auditor's Toad so eloquently just said!!

ILove2Lurk

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

From the bottom of my little pea pickin' Heart, thanks a whole bunch ILove2Lurk and Toady.

"...read EVERY post you've written...". My goodness I admire your stamina and stomach!

Luv youze guys.

Face

 

[RogerB]

Toady and ILove2Lurk speak truth, Face.

It's folks like you three that are exemplars of the good that good folks do for each other when they commune.

And that is the gift that ESMB affords us when we use it wisely and as our Dear Emma intended.

RogerB

 

[lkwdblds]

Face,

Three things. If you don't mind me asking, were there a few specific events or road markers that made you come to that conclusion finally? Were there a few signal, defining moments for you when you look back. (If you've already chronicled these in your past stories, just tell me and I'll go back and read through them again.)

Also, the other day you read one of my posts and I thought I might have unleashed some yet unvoiced and fantastic commentary by you.

Re: The old days - Aboard the Apollo - 1973

Originally Posted by lkwdblds
VERY VERY NICE WAY OF LOOKING AT THINGS!!! A 60 YEAR PILOT PROJECT WHERE THE RESEARCH ENDED IN THE EARLY 1980'S AND NOW THE TRUE RESULTS, WITHOUT ALL THE HYPE AND PR, ARE COMING OUT ON THE INTERNET. AN ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC AND BRILLIANT SUMMATION!!!
Lakey

Yes!!! Absolutely B-R-I-L-L-I-A-N-T ILove2Lurk!

Got a few more things to say but they'll have to wait 'till tomorrow. Face
​

If so, I'd like to hear what you had thought. Could be greatness coming from you again.

And thirdly, you said today you'd met a lot of "old timers" over the years. I presume that's pre-60's people. Did any of them exhibit any notable case states or signs of "OT-ness?"

Have I compounded the sin of "going so completely off topic on this Thread" and should I be apologizing?

Your comments are just so intriguing!!

ILove2Lurk

Hi IL2L - I know you addressed your questions to Face but I had some remarks to make about questions 1 and 3.

About signal moments where it began to become apparent that the OT Levels did not produce as claimed:

For me, the logistics given for the OT III incident never added up: Too many people (in the trillions). Too long a distance to travel (9 light years). Too old of a space ship and it had wings. Too many space ships needed (billions of craft would have had to be built and fueled). All of this just seemed like made up sci-fi.

Next, when the story was leaked in the L.A. Times, around 1981, according to Hubbard, anyone who read the Times article would die, However, no deaths were reported. Ditto for when the materials were realeased on the internet. People read them and did not die.

Next, the levels did not address "OT" type abilities. You ran the level and then you were supposed to have "OT abilities" but there was no connection to what was run and the enhancing of the supposed "OT abilities". What was run would seem to make a person more stable or quiet down the background noise in their space but never was there a drill to improve "OT abilities". I think many of us assumed that everyone else was attaining actual OT abilities and that we were "odd man out". As soon one left, C of S, and began talking openly with other "OT's", people would have a major revelation that nobody had OT abilities.

Face worked directly with LRH for many years so he could eventually form an opinion about LRH from direct observation. For those of us who did not work closely with LRH, we formed our opinion by reading people such as Face plus observing the condition LRH ended up in just before he died.

On point #3, whether any of the old time OT's had any such abilities, I would say that we all experience an OT ability or two or three from time to time. We usually can't control when they happen but once in a while an OT type ability will manifest itself.

I can pick up people's pictures pretty well, especially if I am giving someone a massage or talking to them about their life. While massaging a lady who was very tense, I heard the phrase in my head, "There are only 24 hours in a day!" I mentioned this to her. She was amazed and went and got the date she came with and brought him over to me. She said to him, Tell this guy what I said to you on the front porch just before we came inside. Her date said, "You complained to me that there were only 24 hours in a day".

I was with Purple Haze, in her car about 2 weeks ago, going to a restaurant in a large mall. There were no parking spaces. She pulled to the side of an aisle and for about 30 seconds she was concentrating very hard. She then looked up and said we should get a parking spot now. She drove toward the restaurant and immediately someone parked right in front of the entrance started to back out to leave. We immediately zipped into that space. It could be a coincidence but probably not.

Those are the types of "OT abilities" that I have experienced in myself or other OT's I have met. These types of things happen all the time but they are not under anyone's direct control. They just happen when they happen.
Lakey

 

[Magoo]

Cakemaker: Thank you VERY much for more photos!
I have a feeling you have more, and if so, please do add them. Don't worry
about the quality---I think most of us understand those were days long
gone by, and seeing life back then is quite educational, imnsho.

"Clarence"---so sorry you had such a horrific time with Yvonne. I know many
people who worked on staff with her, and because of that, I've been able
to confirm many things that did happen, and I have to say, *most* of the people who worked with her, dearly loved her.

Olska---I understand many people have a hard time grasping that along
with such evil there could have been good times, but there were. That's all I'll say. Most of us have horrific stories to tell about the darker side of Scientology.
However, if you get a chance to speak with many ex-members...they also had many good times, and that was one of the key reasons many of us stayed.

For me? I loved the people. I enjoyed training. I loved the *hope* that
maybe, just maybe...we...this small group of people, somehow, someway
COULD honestly help mankind. That for me was what kept me there for 30
years.

One thing most people who were never "in" don't get is that MOST
people "in" do not have access to the information telling of
the darker sides, which is so easily available, now. Granted, you see
*some* of it. I remember the first time I saw the "RPF". It was shocking.
People in all black uniforms with armbands on?

I was there when they decided they had to REALLY become a "Church".
The only reason for that was because they were getting sued,
and were afraid the courts could LOOK into the folders and find out
FACTS. So? They made ALL the auditors "Ministers" and all the folders
had to have on them: "PRIEST PENITENCE PRIVILEGE"

I agree with FoTi---re the CC's. My fondest memories were down
on 8th street, in that funky wooden building. So many people came
in then, and we had a great time. Things moved FAST then, and you
had to keep up.

Please, face, don't ever consider or apologize for taking something
off track, when you're adding such detailed experiences. I love them,
as do others!

Phew----amazing, eh? Well, thanks to ALL who have contributed to this
thread, and please post more photos, if you have them.

My best,

Tory/Magoo

 

[programmer_guy]

I was there in early '74.....did not get any sec check to get a room. I don't think they were doing that at that time, nor in '85-'88. Some of the people who ended up in my room would never have passed a sec check.

I don't know why I got a Sec Check but I did.
At that time, I thought that it was standard procedure.

I wonder if anyone here has an explanation for the difference. :confused2:

 

[Auditor's Toad]

I don't know why I got a Sec Check but I did.
At that time, I thought that it was standard procedure.

I wonder if anyone here has an explanation for the difference. :confused2:

Some student needed to do a sec check as a course requirement......you were handy.

 

[programmer_guy]

Some student needed to do a sec check as a course requirement......you were handy.

Nope. This was for a room at The Manor... not for a course drill.

Does anyone else have a possible explanation? Just curious.

 

[cakemaker]

Nope. This was for a room at The Manor... not for a course drill.

Does anyone else have a possible explanation? Just curious.

Wasn't the US GO on the top floors of the Manor at the time?

 

[programmer_guy]

Wasn't the US GO on the top floors of the Manor at the time?

Yes, that is what I had heard at that time when I was there.

I am trying to remember... I think I was there in 1975 and early 1976.
I was there 3 times... twice when I was doing HPCSC at ASHO (called back by Riverside Mission then went back to finish) and then again for the word-clearer's course at ASHO (go figure why mgmt wanted me to do it).

(BTW, I really liked Tommy's burgers which was near old ASHO. )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:052607-005-Tommys.jpg

 

[Magoo]

Wasn't the US GO on the top floors of the Manor at the time?

((This may be tl;dr for some...but for those who like to read about how things were back in the day, this is a couple stories worth reading))

Yes..in 1974 we (husband and I, pre-getting married, and got married at CC and then left in I believe 1975). In 1974 it was still "The Manor Hotel". Scientology owned it, and rented rooms out. We both lived in separate rooms on the 5th floor, and the Guardian's office was there, too.

A funny and true story:

At first I lived in an all girls' Dorm---of which one of the girls was named "Maria-Dufor". She came and went with me, always returning with cash. I finally asked: "Maria: you aren't hooking are you?" She: "Oh no---there are many ways to get $$$ from men". So I wrote it up to the GO to check it out. They did. Turned out she was not even a Scientologist. She has 4 aliases and yes, she WAS hooking out of the Manor Hotel. Needless-to-say, that ended her stay there.

In January of 74 I met my husband at LA Org...even though we lived right next to each other at "The Manor". We twinned together, were ordered to "Stay all night" one Wed night, I think by Bill Franks. I freaked out--as needed to go home and take my medicine for Epilepsy. My "Twin" then said: "no problem---I'll be right back". He returned to say: "Ok, let's go". Shocked, I went with him. "How did you get us out?" He: "I just said my twin is hungry, I'm going to take her to eat and then we'll be right back" (as it's out tech to study over being hungry).

We went to another great hamburger place..on Alvarado, not Tommy's near by.
As we ate, he told jokes, we laughed and I think I fell in love that night. After...I thought we *had* to go back. I asked, "Now what?" He: "We're going home...it's out tech to do that". (Study without enough sleep). We went back to the Manor, and in his room, he started to kiss me. At the time there was "no sex with students" in one of the PL's. So I said, "no--we can't". He: "There MUST be a loophole here somewhere".

The next day I asked the course admin if there had been any changes to *that*?
He smiled and said sweetly: "Yesssssssssssssssssss". And handed me the correction. So I went over to my "Twin", and said: "Good news!" He deep into study, looked up and asked, "What?" I said: "There IS a loophole". He: "huh?"
Super embarrassed---I thought "Oh Gawd, what if he doesn't care?"

Well, we got married in May of that year.

I *think* by May it had become "Celebrity Center" ...but I'm not sure.
I know we got married in the Rose Garden there.

Fun memories. Sadly, he's stayed "in", remarried---and

I pray for ALL of my old friends that they get OUT: NOW. :run:

Love to all

Tory/Magoo

 

[Magoo]

Nope. This was for a room at The Manor... not for a course drill.

Does anyone else have a possible explanation? Just curious.

((This is regarding PG getting security checked))

What year was this, PG? As in 1974 there were no security checks ...we just rented rooms. As I pointed out above, "Maria" was hooking out of the Manor!

Now---were they possibly considering you for staff with the GO? As then, they may have security checked someone, although I don't recall security checking even occurring back then. IF it was for the GO, that'd be why they used a room, there. Other than that, I have no idea. What kind of questions did they ask you, if you don't mind?

Just so you know---I've done sec checks in rooms at Flag, and in a bathroom with a staff member, at Flag---so rooms are often used.

If anyone else knows more, please fill us in.

My best and Happy Friday!!!

Tory/Magoo

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Nope. This was for a room at The Manor... not for a course drill.

Does anyone else have a possible explanation? Just curious.

Sure it was 'for a room' but if somebody needed to do an action to complete a course an auditing room in the HGC was made available.

During renos on Big Blue when the RPF was the largest org in PAC, would you believe students on the BC pulled in people currently on the RPF to do an assessment - like assess a '53 on 'em and send the folder back to the RPF with nothing touched on the '53....just the reads marked.

At some point, I knew the GO was on the top floor of the Manor - when they got there or how long they stayed I have no idea.