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How's That Freedom Workin' for Ya? The Power of an "SP"

Patricia Curtis

Patron with Honors
Miss Synthia, that was a great post and a fascinating story. How's that freedom working for ya...terrific question! My personal philosophy is that there is nothing more important than human connection and any school of thought that trifles with that connection (especially among family members - good lord that's just so wrong) should be carefully reconsidered. Life is created in our relationships with each other - witness the life that is created among strangers all across the globe simply posting on this message board! To anyone who has been lead to believe that disconnection creates their lives, please give this idea some more thought. Connection creates life. Disconnection controls life - and that is not freedom.
 

Auditor's Toad

Clear as Mud
Well, more and more these days even the most devoted are becoming unwilling to buy into people they have known for 20 or 30 years just got discovered overnight to be an SP.

The " Oh I audited you" & " Oh, you audited me " & I came to you when I was confused and you were my stable tech terminal for so many years & " I saw you this, that and the other" etc etc etc.

As they get down to fewer and fewer fish left in the barrel it is getting harder and harder to make people kill their few remaining friends.

Scientology? It ain't working.
 

SchwimmelPuckel

Genuine Meatball
<snip> ... MANY MANY people "get labeled" as an "SP", and Scientologists equate THEM with the nasty, case, Hitler-type "case SP". That identification is in severe error. But many over-indoctrinated not-too-bright Scientologists make that faulty identification of concepts. Hubbard and the Scn organization encourage THAT incorrect identification!

The "case SP" notion has to do with the "content" of a mind. The "administrative SP" is ONLY about BEHAVIOR - behavior that the Church of Scientology doesn't like because these behaviors inhibit its "survival". The two are usually NOT related. <snip>
Very astute observation! :)

I'll just add some food for thought regarding that: When Scientology is being a 'mental therapy' whose aim is to make people more intelligent and sane.. And Scientology boldly claims to be 'Authorities on the Human Mind'...

How in hell does that align with such frivolous and irresponsible labeling of a debilitating mental ilness? -

:duh:
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Very astute observation! :)

I'll just add some food for thought regarding that: When Scientology is being a 'mental therapy' whose aim is to make people more intelligent and sane.. And Scientology boldly claims to be 'Authorities on the Human Mind'...

How in hell does that align with such frivolous and irresponsible labeling of a debilitating mental ilness? -

:duh:

Good point, especially considering that the Church of Scientology attacks psychiatry partially for "labeling mental illnesses" per the DSM-IV.

Oh, I might add that Hubbard does relate the "mental state" of an SP, as described in the PTS/SP Course, with various "behaviors" described in the issues on the "anti-social personality". Hubbard's idea that the anti-social person "cannot complete cycles of action" is based on the idea that such a person is so stuck in this long-ago incident that he or she endlessly FIGHTS to STOP the overwhlem from occurring. Thus, the person "can't move" through anything. Of course it doesn't make sense how textbook "SPs" like Hitler and Stalin then got SO MUCH "done". Hubbard's notions ARE simply a "theory", but he presents them all as "facts". And, nobody can ever confirm or verify such a thing because the events were "very log ago", and nobody can observe these "case factors" in action. In the end one can only accept, adopt and BELIEVE Hubbard's nonsense, since so much of it simply has no means of verification. Yes, one can and often does apply "logic" to Hubbard's many claims and statements, and comes up with "conclusions" based on some strange association of Scientology ideas. The problem is that so many of his claims and statements themselves cannot be "proven" and/or are false.

Anyways, I don't find the issue on "anti-social" tendencies very helpful in "spotting" such people. I find the term, category, and described behaviors somewhat abusrd, though not completely. For instance, in life I have seen people who excel in making others feel bad, with endless invalidation (especially in absuive relationships). But I find a model of the "ego" better at understanding such behaviors rather than Hubbard's nutty paradigm of SPs and "going PTS".

For example, Hubbard includes that the social person will "only pass along good news", and that the anti-social person will pass along negative news (with the aim to upset), often with exaggeration. There is probably SOME truth to that, but that does NOT mean that any person who describes a real, existing negative situation, is "evil". For example, in Scientology that gets SO DISTORTED, that Scientology members NEVER "say anything negative" about Scientology, no matter how much data their own observations provide, them, because they would "then be an SP". Church members actually learn to monitor and closely control their own behaviors in alignment with Hubbard's nutty ideas. Also, most Scientologists learn rather quickly that they will get "declared" if they EVER say anything negative - no matter how true the comments might be.

That is why so many top level Scientologists have seen DM slap people around, yet NEVER mention it to others, because doing so would be "passing along bad news". :duh:

The whole realm gets so very strange because Hubbard made this statements, and then tied in ALL of the "case SP data" with it:

The anti-social person refuses to help and attacks betterment activites.

Of course Hubbard ASSUMES that Scientology is the ONLY VALID "betterment activity". Thus, using "reverse logic", if a person attacks or finds fault with Scientology, then he or she MUST be such an anti-social person. That is not at all true. Yet THAT is what passes for thought and logic in the minds of a great many overly-indoctrinated Scientologists.

Hubbard used different terms at different times, to define different ideas, and then mashed them all together in the "ethics tech". "Merchant of chaos", "the anti-social personality", and the "suppressive person". He never actually SAID that they were all equal, but issues about each get put together in course like the "PTS/SP Course" and "ethics mini-hats". And since NOBODY can ask or talk about any of it (no verbal data), most go off equating all of the ideas together in some strange mental abomination of associated thoughts and significances.

The inner workings of the mind of a "dedicated Scientologist" is an amazingly weird thing to observe.

Lastly, it all got especially nuts when Hubbard made up the list of Suppressive Acts and Crimes, where the majority of the "bad behaviors" are defined by "doing harm to Hubbard or Scientology"! The majority of "evil" as defined by Hubbard involves affecting the Church of Scientology in some negative way.

Obviously, such a system could not possibly exist as some universal ethics and justice system, because it is defined almost entirely from the viewpoint of SCIENTOLOGY'S EXPANSION & SURVIVAL. :duh: But Hubbard says that his system IS the ONLY valid system of "ethics and justice", and the blind/dumb followers believe him.

Anyway, yes, they surely do "label" people, though they NEVER state that they are labeling a "mental condition". Every person EVER declared as a "suppressive person" was declared due to specific behaviors that the Church of Scientology viewed as detrimental to ITS OWN EXPANSION and SURVIVAL. Whether true or not - since many people really didn't "do anything bad" other than speak their minds about some flaw or contradiction with Hubbard or Scientology. But realize, within the framework of organized LRH Scientology, even THAT IS a "suppressive act" (making public statements against Scientoogy or Hubbard to anything or anyone other than a Comm Ev).

In fact, it is a HIGH CRIME to disagree with ANY aspect of Hubbard or Scientology. Well, actually you can disagree, but as long as you keep paying money and doing services, and TELL NOBODY ELSE, you will be fine. In other words, you can "think whatever you choose", but you do NOT have "free speech". You aren't allowed to EXPRESS your thoughts when they contradict Hubbard or the Church of Scientology. I know, because I got off MANY disagreements in session, over quite a few years while in the Sea Org, I NEVER changed my mind or even lied to them that I changed my mind, and as long as I "played ball" and kept quiet about such things, they left me alone.

That is partially why I came to have so little respect or interest in Scientology.
 
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attachment.php

above is a photo of the band, People! at their reunion a few years back

they were a one hit wonder back in 1968 (I Love You)

[video=youtube;ibs-ynGPpN0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibs-ynGPpN0[/video]

we, as a group of friends,about twenty strong, got into Scientology in 1968. Since then, most of us have left.Two of those pictured are still "in."

Everyone had a great time getting together before the concert (where they got entrance into San Jose (California)'s Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, during the event, after at the hotel lounge.

Nobody gave a flying fuck about SP declares, "in good standing", or anything in between.

We're friends. Some are OT 7 or better. Some have been out for forty years. Friends stay true to friends.

If you got "in " after 1980, you might not understand this. That seems to be the dividing line.
 

Sindy

Crusader
Shazaam! Now this is what I'm talkin' about! What freakin' great posts - every last one of them. I am now going to go back and sink my teeth into them. Yes!!! :happydance:
 

Veda

Sponsor
Pardon this brief interruption

-snip-

If you got "in " after 1980, you might not understand this. That seems to be the dividing line.

I got "in" in 1970, and I remember how John McMaster had just become a radioactive "non person." I guess those people weren't really his friends.

The SP Doctrine was alive and well in the 1970s. If anything, Scientology was more of a public menace then than it is now.

John McMaster, from a 1985 interview:

"The basic function of auditing is a wonderful thing, but Hubbard perverted it...

"He got the technology to the point where he had a sort of assembly line as he called it. And he told me how he was putting all these 'square ball bearings' on the beginning of the assembly line, and then turning them into 'round ball bearings' at the other end. That was his idea of 'standard tech'."


John Sanborn was the editor of many of Hubbard's early books, and of 'Ability' magazine. (Sanborn tried unsuccessfully to have "disposed of quietly and without sorrow" and "no rights of any kind" - for the anti-Dn/anti-Scn/anti-LRH low toned - removed from 'Science of Survival' in 1951.)

From a 1985 interview:

"Hubbard had Marilyn Routsong, who was the World Wide Ethics Officer at St. Hill, deliver the first Suppressive Person Declare. He had written this system up and now he was going to use it.

"Hubbard said declare so and so. And she put out the Order. Boy, in those days, being Declared was like a death sentence.

"He said, 'As soon as you give him the order come back.' And when she did he said, 'How did he act? What did he say? Did he say anything?' He was thrilled like a kid to see how his dictatorial system was going to work."


Hubbard's SP Doctrine may not have affected me - I was lucky - but it most definitely affected many other people.
 

Happy Days

Silver Meritorious Patron
Great thread and OP Synthia...

Recently a public, who is still on OTVII, returned to ACT and started to stalk an outspoken critic of the CoS. She would arrive at the cafe bar where this woman worked and would sit there for 4 hours or so.

Now these two women have CoS history, both were on staff. The stalker was ED of ACT Org and my friend was the OES. The ED, who was surprisingly on OTVII back then too, and we are talking some 8 years ago, was a complete nut job, she harrassed, intimidated, stalked and bullied my friend while she was on staff due to an out 2D situation, this went on for quite some time :angry:

So this person must have decided that she would continue her harrassment on her return to Oz. Of course little did she know that a full report has been given to the AFP of what occurred back then.

However, my friend eventually got fed with it all and went up to her, now this person is suppose to be cause over life :lol: started to crap her pants. You see my friend is a declared SP and has got the power :thumbsup: so when she approached this nut job and started questioning on why she was there and told her that her being there is like another form of intimidation and harrassment knowing that her own church does not allow her to be near or in communication with an SP, that she did not know why she would be there in her workplace. Further she informed that she has been in connect with the AFP and put a formal complaint in and that each time she is in her workplace she will make another report to the AFP due to there troubled history.

And the all powerful *yawn* OT blew .....

Now that's what I call confront and shatter suppression and I think my friend did an outstanding job :thumbsup:
 
Re: Pardon this brief interruption

I got "in" in 1970, and I remember how John McMaster had just become a radioactive "non person." I guess those people weren't really his friends.

The SP Doctrine was alive and well in the 1970s. If anything, Scientology was more of a public menace then than it is now.

John McMaster, from a 1985 interview:

"The basic function of auditing is a wonderful thing, but Hubbard perverted it...

"He got the technology to the point where he had a sort of assembly line as he called it. And he told me how he was putting all these 'square ball bearings' on the beginning of the assembly line, and then turning them into 'round ball bearings' at the other end. That was his idea of 'standard tech'."


John Sanborn was the editor of many of Hubbard's early books, and of 'Ability' magazine. (Sanborn tried unsuccessfully to have "disposed of quietly and without sorrow" and "no rights of any kind" - for the anti-Dn/anti-Scn/anti-LRH low toned - removed from 'Science of Survival' in 1951.)

From a 1985 interview:

"Hubbard had Marilyn Routsong, who was the World Wide Ethics Officer at St. Hill, deliver the first Suppressive Person Declare. He had written this system up and now he was going to use it.

"Hubbard said declare so and so. And she put out the Order. Boy, in those days, being Declared was like a death sentence.

"He said, 'As soon as you give him the order come back.' And when she did he said, 'How did he act? What did he say? Did he say anything?' He was thrilled like a kid to see how his dictatorial system was going to work."


Hubbard's SP Doctrine may not have affected me - I was lucky - but it most definitely affected many other people.

like many other comparable narratives, they can be placed on a bell curve. I am going to guess that the orgs were far less populated than the centers and franchises. The org populations were the minority of Scientologists in the feld.

In 1969, when Peter Rundberg, Class Vl, was declared SP by some governing authority, whose name I forget, he didn't show up that morning for his PCs at the Santa Clara Center (corner of Cronin and McKinley) in Santa Clara, CA.

Phil Spickler, running the center for Gifford Pinchot lll, phoned Peter, and (basically) said, "Get your butt in here."

Veda, I think you **may** be speaking from an "org" perspective. The centers and franchises, later called missions, were not doctrinaire, but used "what works?"

I was on the solo course (grade 6) at ASHO, when a fellow student told me that John Mack was in town. This was after he had left. His talks, from that day(s) can be streamed or downloaded here:


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43776862/Ambasador Hotel Lectures/70-09-20=JM 1 Freedom.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43776862/Ambasador Hotel Lectures/70-09-20=JM 2 Circuitrizing 2.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43776862/Ambasador Hotel Lectures/70-09-20=JM 3 What is Love 2.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43776862/Ambasador Hotel Lectures/70-09-20=JM 4 Communication 2.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43776862/Am...-10-18=JM Every Man His Own Messiah (2) 2.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43776862/Ambasador Hotel Lectures/70-11-14=JM Power Processes 1.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43776862/Ambasador Hotel Lectures/70-11-18=JM Radio Interview KPFK.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43776862/Am...s/70-11-29=JM You the Infinite Creators 3.mp3

There wasn't ANY of what you describe in my circle regarding John McMaster. Peter Crundell's only comment, was that he hadn't looked good, the last time he was through, and Peter should have dragged him into session. That is not what I call "radioactive."
 

Veda

Sponsor
Re: Pardon this brief interruption

-snip-

Veda, I think you **may** be speaking from an "org" perspective. The centers and franchises, later called missions, were not doctrinaire, but used "what works?"

-snip-

Phil Spickler was a true believer, as were the Mission Holders.

It may not seem that way now.

There is currently an attempt by outside the CofS Scientologists to re-write history, with Scientology becoming a cult only around 1980, and I don't want to "contribute to that motion" by letting this misrepresentation slide by.

And I'm not accusing you of anything, but what you're - innocently - saying is misleading. :)
 

Sindy

Crusader
Great thread and OP Synthia...

Recently a public, who is still on OTVII, returned to ACT and started to stalk an outspoken critic of the CoS. She would arrive at the cafe bar where this woman worked and would sit there for 4 hours or so.

Now these two women have CoS history, both were on staff. The stalker was ED of ACT Org and my friend was the OES. The ED, who was surprisingly on OTVII back then too, and we are talking some 8 years ago, was a complete nut job, she harrassed, intimidated, stalked and bullied my friend while she was on staff due to an out 2D situation, this went on for quite some time :angry:

So this person must have decided that she would continue her harrassment on her return to Oz. Of course little did she know that a full report has been given to the AFP of what occurred back then.

However, my friend eventually got fed with it all and went up to her, now this person is suppose to be cause over life :lol: started to crap her pants. You see my friend is a declared SP and has got the power :thumbsup: so when she approached this nut job and started questioning on why she was there and told her that her being there is like another form of intimidation and harrassment knowing that her own church does not allow her to be near or in communication with an SP, that she did not know why she would be there in her workplace. Further she informed that she has been in connect with the AFP and put a formal complaint in and that each time she is in her workplace she will make another report to the AFP due to there troubled history.

And the all powerful *yawn* OT blew .....

Now that's what I call confront and shatter suppression and I think my friend did an outstanding job :thumbsup:

Great story! Unbelievable. If Scientology really delivered, that would never happen. The nut job would have had her sanity restored and harmony and good communication would be the order of the day but instead it sounds like the craziness just continued to escalate.

What is with Scientologists and stalking? :ohmy: If it wasn't so sad and families weren't torn apart, and people didn't die from cancer or shoot themselves in the head, or start crazy rip off pyramid schemes, or, or, or........

Well, it would be rather comical. Instead it's just tragic.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Re: Pardon this brief interruption

Phil Spickler was a true believer, as were the Mission Holders.

It may not seem that way now.

There is currently an attempt by outside the CofS Scientologists to re-write history, with Scientology becoming a cult only around 1980, and I don't want to "contribute to that motion" by letting this misrepresentation slide by.

And I'm not accusing you of anything, but what you're - innocently - saying is misleading. :)

Before the early 1980s Hubbard and the C of S had not yet consolidated power. Management was NOT yet fully developed or in place, and the missions and groups were often very FAR "out of the loop". To a certain degree, some or many of them were NOT AT ALL like the Class IV orgs, which Scn management had far greater control over.

It is NOT rewriting history to say that many of the folks involved with the earlier missions and groups, while possibly "devoted in their own ways", were NOT subservient to or following extact instructions from "Scientology management". That is what the mission's holders conference did. It got all of the MANY folks out of the pitcure who did NOT want to play ball with strict, Sea Org style Scientology management.

To me Veda, what you are saying is misleading.

To say the early mission holders were "true believers" is such an absurd generality considering the many different details of what actually went on back then. I remember talking to a few Mission holders in the late 1970s, in NYC, and they were pretty much "renegades", who did what they wanted to do, and they were VERY PROUD to have little to do with the Class IV orgs and tight upper management. THAT was a big part of the problem to the higher ups in Scn. Some of these incredibly successful missions viewed the Class IV orgs with (quiet) disdain.

A few of the NY missions had MORE staff, MORE Class VI and Class VIII auditors, and had MUCH HIGHER staff pay than the orgs, because they refused to be part of "management". Many people have recall of these as the "good 'ole days", because they were FAR away from the insanities of management. Back then they were allowed to charge LESS for auditing. People often went to the missions instead of to the orgs, BECAUSE they could be "more out-ethics", and not have to conform to the cookie-cutter versions of missions that management was beginning to put into place.

See, I CAN envision a version of Scientology where it could and would be fun, not expensuive and not oppressive. How? Simply ignore all the dumb organizational, ethics and justice policies of Hubbard's. And, THAT is exactly what many of the missions did.

At least up until 1982. The Sea Org also consolidated control of the orgs between 1981-1984 by declaring huge numbers of staff and public (at least in the USA) who wanted to NOT do things "Ron's way", and were doing VERY well doing it "their own way". Miami org was reduced to about 1/3 of its size in that period. It was like the Wild West back then, in some ways.

But Ron wanted "total control". In fact, the degree to which Hubbard and organized Scn management didn't have control, was often the degree to which the missions did very well and were "fun".

Now, if one's only direct experience was with Class IV orgs and the Sea Org, and NOT with the very loose missions and groups, back in the 1970s, well then the ONLY thing you saw was the oppressive control directed by Hubbard through management lines.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Re: Pardon this brief interruption

-snip-

I remember talking to a few Mission holders in the late 1979s, in NYC, and they were pretty much "renegades", who did what they wanted to do, and they were PROUD to have little to do with the Class IV orgs and tight upper management. THAT was a big part of the problem to the higher ups in Scn.

-snip-

The Missions were not as loose as their public believed. The top missions were under constant pressure to produce - and produce income. The missions were tolerated because they were the primary feeders of new public to Orgs up lines. That era came to a close when Hubbard looted the Missions in 1982.

The Missions disliked the Class IV orgs, and the Class IV orgs despised the Missions, especially ones such as the flamboyantly affluent Geltman (NYC) mission, but they were all gung ho disciples of RON. RON, in turn, privately despised and distrusted the Missions, and the Sea Org reflected that and despised the Missions also.

The only reason that the 1981/1982/1983 schism got off the ground, in its early stages, was that the Mission Holders believed - wrongly - that Hubbard was no longer on lines.
 
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Re: Pardon this brief interruption

Phil Spickler was a true believer, as were the Mission Holders.

It may not seem that way now.

There is currently an attempt by outside the CofS Scientologists to re-write history, with Scientology becoming a cult only around 1980, and I don't want to "contribute to that motion" by letting this misrepresentation slide by.

And I'm not accusing you of anything, but what you're - innocently - saying is misleading. :)

just to name time place form and event correctly:

there were three scenes that I described above. I was personally there for all three. They were not hearsay to me.

Pete Crundall was no more than four feet away, when he said what I described that he said.

In my mind, at the time, I might have agreed with your summary of Phil Spickler. Some half decade later, his wife moved in with me (1976) with their kids, and we left the Co$. We got some nasty looks, and behind back gossip, but no disconnection. We have now been "out" and living together or married since 1976.

Phil (and his then-to-be wife, Julie) spent a boatload of money at Flag around 1979 for "Clear OT" status, and then walked "out." They weren't booted. They were "Johnny come lately" as far as we were concerned.

The group that I started in my living room, that became a center, mission, and org (Los Gatos) went on without me. The Palo Alto mission went on without Phil. Westwood didn't go on without Peter and Lisa.

The people in the field were independent in mind, spirit, and action. Ask anyone, whoever worked for Alan Walter, for example.

The orgs were less free spirited.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Re: Pardon this brief interruption

The Missions were not as loose as their public believed. The top missions were under constant pressure to produce - and produce income. The missions were tolerated because they were the primary feeders of new public to Orgs up lines. That era came to a close when Hubbard looted the Missions in 1982.

The Missions disliked the Class IV orgs, and the Class IV orgs despised the Missions, especially ones such as the flamboyantly affluent Geltman (NYC) mission, but they were all gung ho disciples of RON. RON, in turn, privately despised and distrusted the Missions, and the Sea Org reflected that and despised the Missions also.

The only reason that the 1981/1982/1983 schism got off the ground, in it's early stages, was that the Mission Holders believed - wrongly - that Hubbard was no longer on lines.

Yes, they might have been "disciples" of some version of Ron they chose to grasp and understand, but they were VERY selective in what they accepted and in their own unique ways of viewing Hubbard. One can have an image of Hubbard that is positive, while also choosing NOT apply a great many policies. Back then there were MANY BTBs and BPLs, written by others than LRH, that were used in orgs and missions. These were viewed as "standard policy". But also, unless there was some Sea Org management team there forcing in exact issues and behaviors, nobody had to and often nobody did.

The reality of the missions back then was WORLDS apart from what it is today (with the Mission N/W). Even the orgs were very different.

I got into Scn in 1976 in Boston. For the year I was there, every event was a free-for-all of personal creation. There were skits, short plays, musical groups, and even joking about Scientology itself! It was a great deal of FUN! As a Flag Rep in 1979 I started to see "scripts" come down the lines for EXACT PATTER for each event. Management put control in on that ONE area. Then after awhile longer it got to a point where there were NO autonomous Scn events allowed, with every org simulcasting the SAME heavily scripted and contrived DM event.

That is just ONE of MANY examples where management put in greater and greater degrees of control in on orgs after about 1979. But, before that, well the REALITY of involvement with Scn was VERY different than today. Of course, we have to deal with the monstrosity of today.

The aim of management has been to reduce the aspect of personal creativity, and to control EVERY smallest aspect of what happens in any org or mission. Hubbard's view was that if THAT were done, getting ALL of his policies applied fully and exactly, that Scientiogy would boom. It didn't and it never will because too many of Hubbard's instructions for behavior are STUPID! But back then, when the missions and orgs could "bend the rules" and NOT implement much of whatever they chose not to, things were VERY different.
 
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Re: Pardon this brief interruption

The Missions were not as loose as their public believed. The top missions were under constant pressure to produce - and produce income. The missions were tolerated because they were the primary feeders of new public to Orgs up lines. That era came to a close when Hubbard looted the Missions in 1982.

The Missions disliked the Class IV orgs, and the Class IV orgs despised the Missions, especially ones such as the flamboyantly affluent Geltman (NYC) mission, but they were all gung ho disciples of RON. RON, in turn, privately despised and distrusted the Missions, and the Sea Org reflected that and despised the Missions also.

The only reason that the 1981/1982/1983 schism got off the ground, in it's early stages, was that the Mission Holders believed - wrongly - that Hubbard was no longer on lines.

The only reason was their toes were getting stepped on, and they didn't like it.

Alan Walter was planning a coup. Period. Ask Purple Haze.


LRH, perceptions about him, may have been skewed..... Were skewed, absolutely. History is 20 /20. Franchise holders were angry, LRH was not the target. He should have been, but he hadn't, as yet, been spotted as the prime SP.

People were leaving in droves because the group wasn't working for them, but against them. John McMaster was just an early warning sign.


http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43776862/Ambasador Hotel Lectures/70-09-20=JM 1 Freedom.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43776862/Ambasador Hotel Lectures/70-09-20=JM 2 Circuitrizing 2.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43776862/Ambasador Hotel Lectures/70-09-20=JM 3 What is Love 2.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43776862/Ambasador Hotel Lectures/70-09-20=JM 4 Communication 2.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43776862/Am...-10-18=JM Every Man His Own Messiah (2) 2.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43776862/Ambasador Hotel Lectures/70-11-14=JM Power Processes 1.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43776862/Ambasador Hotel Lectures/70-11-18=JM Radio Interview KPFK.mp3

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/43776862/Am...s/70-11-29=JM You the Infinite Creators 3.mp3
 
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Veda

Sponsor
This discussion could go on indefinitely, and it would derail this thread.

I knew some of the old major Mission Holders, and the image of Missions held by FZ and Indie Scientologists these days is an inaccurate one. Of course Missions, mainly mission public, were granted more slack. It was designed that way to provide for easy gradients more deeply IN to Scientology.

Some background information on this period - includes these chapters from the book 'Messiah or Madman?':

15. Hubbard in Hiding: The Secret Desert Command Post

16. The Savior Lives Just Down the Road!

17. A Reform Movement is Derailed

18. Hubbard's "Billion Dollar Caper"

19. The Savior's Revenge

20. Thousands Break from Hubbard's Church

Note: The only available scan on the Net is a crude 1998 scan of the 1987 edition, but it has the info. Chapter titles may vary slightly in different editions.


The following is an excerpt from 'Messiah or Madman?' and gives some idea of the amount of secrecy and intrigue involved in Scientology.

Around 1981, Bill Franks was appointed by Hubbard as "Executive Director," but what exactly did that mean?

Bent Corydon was a friend of Bill Franks. The following is an excerpt from the chapter, 'A Reform Movement is Derailed' in 'Messiah or Madman?':

"When... Mary Sue's defense was seen as futile, and the legal heat was being directed increasingly at Hubbard himself, Hubbard ordered a 'palace coup' by his 'kids' (his youthful messengers)...

"David Miscavige 'handled' Mary Sue Hubbard, and Bill Franks was assigned to 'handle' the head of the Guardian's Office, Jane Kember.

"The entire old G.O. was headed for jail. Hubbard ordered his messengers to set up a 'Watchdog Committee'.

"In early 1981 Hubbard also created a new post of Executive Director International. This was announced to be a resumption of the post 'vacated by L. Ron Hubbard in 1966'. The new appointment to Executive Director was Bill Franks...

"It was presented to Franks that he would be assuming all of Hubbard's administrative functions. However, Bill told me years later, after leaving the Church, that he had since concluded that Hubbard set him up in order to help him rid himself of Jane Kember...

"What was actually happening at the time of the mission holders' meeting was that Bill had been 'put in charge' as an additional facade for Hubbard. Bill was supposed to have 'instinctively' understood that he was merely to be window dressing. Hubbard was still in control while operating through new additional facades, consisting of the mysterious WDC and Franks. These fronts were designed to protect Hubbard from criminal prosecution that had already consumed his previous facade, consisting of his wife and her G.O. clique.

"Hubbard had not counted on Bill Franks and the mission holders' backlash reaction against what he [Bill Franks] considered 'G.O. type abuses'.

"Franks naively believed that Hubbard had genuinely stepped down, leaving him in the top spot. Bill's reform efforts were constantly getting derailed by these 'kids' however (secretly implementing Hubbard's intent), so he feared that they would go on to commit crimes similar to the G.O bunch..."


So the mission holders were rebelling, but had no idea that they were rebelling against Hubbard, but Hubbard knew, and reacted fiercely.


From Larry Brennan:

"There was a real secret body of people directly run by Hubbard."

(Press "Control" and then "F" to find key words or dates, such as 1983.)

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=90246&postcount=1

From a 1986 interview of Martin Samuels, former Mission Holder, and founder of the Delphian School, from the 'Reflections' chapter of the book, 'L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman?' http://www.amazon.com/reader/0942637577?_encoding=UTF8&ref_=sib_dp_pt :


"Hubbard operated according to a couple of key patterns.

"The first pattern involved basically decent well intentioned people... no one was able to rise in the organization to a point of any real proximity to him, without being attacked and vilified...

"And of course the next person thinks he or she is immune. Of course, now Hubbard is dead, so we won't see that pattern particularly repeated, except inasmuch as we'll see the Church hierarchy emulate and carry that pattern forward.

"The next pattern: It's reap and rape. Hubbard would let the reins loose. He'd let people believe they really could get on with it... He'd let people believe they really could prosper to the full extent of their own ability, and enjoy the fruits of their labor."

And, with that kind of freedom, prosperity does occur, Inevitably, though, he'd come along and rape and pillage and rip off and take what had been produced. The most dramatic example of this was '82, '83, when he 'raped' his most decent people in management along with the mission holders, and looted the entire mission network.

"And look at this pattern... He surrounded himself with absolute hooligans as 'managers'; guys who beat the shit out of people. This man, who 'is this OT, the author of Science of Survival, completely able to predict human behavior', surrounded himself with ruthless people - like Miscavige - who got there because they emulated Hubbard's savagery. They emulated his total willingness to completely break, use, and discard another person.

"And then after their hands were so bloody - and the only reason their hands were bloody was that they were doing what Hubbard wanted - when it finally started to get to the point where it couldn't be tolerated by people anymore, Hubbard wiped them out. Then he said. 'My God! I didn't know!' Scapegoat. He even did that to his own wife, who went to jail in his place...

"But the thing that's amazing, and to me terrifying, is the characteristic of the mind, my mind, your mind, and apparently many other people's minds, where I could buy this horseshit, where I could participate in it."


Jesse Prince, Legal Declaration, 1999: http://lermanet.com/reference/Jesse2inWoller.htm
 
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Gadfly

Crusader
Re: Pardon this brief interruption

A coup against management, not against RON.

True, because they had not yet realized that the REAL problem was in the SOURCE of all management - Hubbard himself!

They disagreed with MANY aspects of what management was pushing to implement, and regardless whether Hubbard was behind the instructions or not, the Missions and Orgs REFUSED to apply certain "directives", even when they were cited as "exact LRH policy".

Yes, of course, anyone who thinks that "management was the final cause", and ignores that Hubbard was the TRUE CAUSE behind all of the insanity is, well, quite insane.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
...

OT's are always "at cause" over SP's.

OT's can shatter SP's any time they feel like it.

With one exception. (read the fine print in the agreement):

The Santa Cause Clause: OT's shall at all times evidence the total causation of the total technology by shattering SPs whenever and wherever they are encountered. Insofar as the OT has received the priceless shatter technology as a gift from the founder of the total technology (much like Santa Claus rewards good little boys and girls), the OT hereby agrees to honor the benevolent founder's wish that the shatter tech never be utilized in favor of the much more humanitarian (and confidential) disconnect-tech. Nothing herein shall be interpreted or implied as an admission that the shatter-tech does not work and all manner of care should be taken to never allow persons to have such mistaken and profoundly abberative beliefs. Ergo, no parlor tricks. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the shatter-tech does fucking work, trust me. ML, Ron.
 
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