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How's That Freedom Workin' for Ya? The Power of an "SP"

Mick Wenlock

Admin Emeritus (retired)
Au contraire, you may have the most power of all. Having no declare, you can walk through walls and events undetected. You can still talk to people without scrutiny. Who knows the untold havoc you could wreak. I'm shaking in my boots just thinking about it. :coolwink:

well I have been declared - in writing - TWICE and am on lists and things.

Be afraid... be very afraid...
 

anonomog

Gold Meritorious Patron
Right. I was, of course, trying very,very hard to communicate in such a way that no one in his/her right mind would take offense to it so that when he did take offense to it, it would make his irrational behavior obvious.

What Marty's comment, back to me, finally got me to fully see is that he would rather ALWAYS defend a sycophant over the encouragement of open dialog. He will never see me comment there again and that is his loss (but, of course, only in my opinion). Jeff Hawkins was a much better moderator than Marty will ever be but, then again, Jeff didn't let that pesky Scientology devotion get in the way.

It is very much Marty's loss as well as your old friend's loss.
Marty's habit of arrogant dismissal is not doing him any favours, but as a true believer can he be any other way?
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
It is very much Marty's loss as well as your old friend's loss.
Marty's habit of arrogant dismissal is not doing him any favours, but as a true believer can he be any other way?


Arrogant dismissal is a carefully cultivated skill, practiced by L. Ron Hubbard, David Miscavige and other disciples within the Scientology culture.

Cultivated.

Culture.

Dealing with dedicated Scientologists is alway very...difficult.
 
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Sindy

Crusader
Synthia, first, EXCELLENT POST! :thumbsup:

Back in the mid-1980s I was FSO crew and sent out as an "advanceman" for the EUS Flag World Tour. I set up the events - booked the hotel, arranged refreshments, got the call-in going, got the promo sent out, etc.

I had a chance to meet quite of few of the "recently declared", as this wasn't long after the insane Sea Org missions decimated the missions and various orgs. There were large obvious contradictions between 1) what the Church and Hubbard claimed, and 2) the reality of these "suppressive people".

I met and talked with quite a few. The first thing that struck me was that while some were VERY angry about what happened, understandably so, and mad AT the Church of Scientology, they were ALL seemingly sane, honest, nice and decent people! I had to accept that observation. They were NOT at all how Hubbard painted them to be.

Now, I did make a distinction, one that many Scios fail to make. Hubbard defines a "case SP", as the mad and crazy fellow who is fighting some long-lost enemy of the past, and who has gotten "stuck in this incident" to the point where he or she has identified ALL humanity with the overwhelming enemy. This type of person feels that unless he or she reduces the power and ability of others, that he or she will and must lose/fail. There is some sense to such an idea.

But, then there is the "administrative" SP, which is any person whom the Church LABELS an SP based on the list of Suppressive Acts. This realm of High Crimes are tied to the idea that anybody who is against Scn is/must be one of these people. Of course, that is not at all true. This involves a bit of Scn "logic" where if you accept certain claims of Hubbard, then it "sort" of makes sense. So, the result is that MANY MANY people "get labeled" as an "SP", and Scientologists equate THEM with the nasty, case, Hitler-type "case SP". That identification is in severe error. But many over-indoctrinated not-too-bright Scientologists make that faulty identification of concepts. Hubbard and the Scn organization encourage THAT incorrect identification!

The "case SP" notion has to do with the "content" of a mind. The "administrative SP" is ONLY about BEHAVIOR - behavior that the Church of Scientology doesn't like because these behaviors inhibit its "survival". The two are usually NOT related.

Just as the Church of Scientology will hit you very hard with "that is enemy line" if you, as a Church member, make any comment about the difference between the "subject" and the "organization", so also will you be hit with "that is enemy line" if you try to differentiate between the "case SP" and the "admin SP". Hubbard and the Church allow for no such differentiation, yet the difference is VERY real.

Anyway, one of my earlier realizations in the matter was that the entire "administrative - ethics - justice" angle of all this was largely nonsense, AND ALSO that it was GREATLY abused by whoever was running the Church (Hubbard included). It was often used as a "political" tool to "get rid" of whoever those in power wanted to get rid of.

But there is another angle. As time went on, as I gained more familiarity with the "LRH data", and also observed reality, another contradiction reared its ugly head. See, I myself never "got sick", had "accidents" or went "PTS" talking to these supposedly "bad evil people". In fact, none of them ever did or said ANYTHING to me that was aimed at overwhelming me, caving me in, making me wrong or "not-is-ing" me. Of course, many did disagree with behaviors of the Church of Scientolgy, but simple disagreement with one's ideas and views does NOT an SP make - except in Scientology!

There was another aspect to this. As I understood Hubbard, a being "in very good condition or shape", either by having gone up the Bridge or simply because he or she was a "big being", would and should be able to "communicate with anyone" and also "NOT go the effect of the viewpoints of others". Right? It sure seemed that way to me. I mean, I myself could do THAT!

So, why was it that even the highest levels of OT could be so "susceptible" to "losing their gains" simply by being in the same space as and communicating with ANY person (SP or not)? It seemed to me that IF Scientology bestowed such amazingly great POWER and STABILITY on a person that he or she should/would reach a point where sensitivity to SPs and "going PTS" would vanish. Yes? No? It sure seemed that way to me. I mean, why bother getting all "OT" and all if any nasty "SP" can come along, make a snide remark, and then all of a sudden you are all sick, out of PT, and having accidents? :confused2:

Once I had again realized that the REALITY of things was FAR DIFFERENT than the IDEAS and CONCEPTS Hubbard claimed and asserted, in this case regarding his writings and talks on SPs and PTSes, I was one step further "out". People become trapped in the prison of Hubbard's framework.

But the Church and Hubbard SLAMMED this notion into the heads of adherents. The notion that you "are total cause", EXCEPT when you are "connected to an SP". :duh:

At some point I saw through the utter ridiculousness of that. I saw that the MAIN source of oppression (suppression) in my life was coming from the Church of Scientology, with their endless lies, manipulations, force, demand, PR, and pressure to accept, adopt and forward this crazy paradigm of Hubbard's.

Of course, any sensible person does not want to put oneself into or stay within some situation or environment that contains active oppression. It IS sensible to "get away from" (disconnect) from REAL sources of oppression where some person or group is invalidating you, overwhelming you, making you wrong, or attempting to "not-is" you. But, that is NOT what the Church does when it declares so many people as SPs and orders its members not to communicate with them.

It IS sensible to disconnect from the Church of Scientology because IT IS AN ACTIVE SOURCE OF ENTRUBULATION for any honest, caring and sincere person who is unwilling to go along with the lies of Hubbard. The Church of Scientology literally overwhelms people with Hubbard's paradigm. Hubbard's labels, ideas, nomenclature and paradigm TAKE OVER a person's consciousness and beingness. The truth, looking from a framework of Hubbard's ideas, is that the Church of Scientology IS the active evil, IT is the "SP", and it aims to cave you in so hard (i.e. ruin-finding, accepting all the doom and gloom scenarios spewed by Hubbard) that you accept and adopt Hubbard's worldview forever after.

In fact, participation with Scientology "not-ises" YOU (making the C of S THE REAL "SP" by Hubbard's own definitions), and replaces a new personality/beingness ("you") in its place.

When a person says "I am a Scientologist", what he or she is actually saying is that participation and indoctrination in Scientology have eradicated/destroyed my previous "self", and that he or she has "become" a new and different "self".

Note: As I have stated before, to me, a valid path of spiritual advancement involves reducing and getting rid of ANY version of a "self". Participation with Scientology simply creates a different, but HEAVIER and MASSIER "self". One is actually WORSE OFF from the Buddhist perspective, because "self" has been "beefed up" markedly by involvement with Scientology. One is expanding the "thetan" ("self") out to infinity, while reducing all other universes to nothing (8-8008). The "thetan" is ACTUALLY the "self", and Hubbard has tricked all members into growing his or her "ego" instead of reducing it. It is quite a trick really. The auditing acts, in some good ways, to "remove aspects of self", but the entire Scientology organization acts to implant a whole new set of agreements that creates a new "self".

As I see it, Scn auditing could be placed in a framework of "reducing the ego", with NONE of the trappings of the Scientology organization or KSW, and possibly be quite "workable". But, that is NOT what happens in organized Scientology. Also, though, Hubbard has greatly confused the subject with his own additives.

Oh, one last point. One empowers anything OVER and ABOVE you to the degree you grant it existence. To the degree you get worked up about ANYTHING is the degree that some person or group HAS POWER OVER YOU. Sindy, that is why in a recent post where you stated that Scientology was recently "bothering you", that I suggested "letting it go". In Scientology, the reality and existence of SPs is endlessly slammed into member's heads, and of course, these Scientologists then DO go "the effect" of the SPs. It is all imaginary, and they DO go the effect of their own "mock-ups".

In Scientology there is strong action to constantly keep the adherents all worked up about "the nasty SPs". It grants the "SPs" power. It makes "SPs" REAL to the bozos who accept such dumb ideas, and just as you saw, many of them shy away from and cower in front of these "SPs". But reversely, some here on ESMB get "all worked up" about Sceintology, and to some degree, that does give it power over you. You can and should talk about it, criticize it, make fun of it, point out the flaws, and continue to expose the contradictions, but DON'T "get worked up" (emotionally) about it. Or at least, talk and discuss so that for you, the emotional component diminishes over time, thus allowing it less and less power over you.

:scnsucks:

Thank you Gadfly. It took me this long to read this as I only now had the time to really sit down and not give it just short shrift.

This is one of THE BEST posts I have ever read and I really thank you for taking the time to be so detailed, so thorough and thoughtful as well as writing it in a concise and organized fashion that was a pleasure to read.

I agree with you about getting worked up with one caveat that if I hadn't gotten worked up in the first place I would have never left and it is that occasional indignation that prompts me to act. For example, I recently did a media interview (not aired yet) that I think will prove to have quite an impact. I would not have been able to have the courage to do that if I wasn't steaming mad and not just intellectually.

I do agree with you but want you to know that if, every once in awhile, I express being disturbed, it is an emotion I must actually have and work through as generally I do not stay in any kind of melancholy or vindictive state for too long and certainly I would never ever allow myself to get despondent or vengeful - Scientology isn't worth it.

Not knowing me though, I do see why you would caution me because I am sure you have, as I have, seen people who are very damaged both mentally and spiritually (and possibly physically) from their connection to Scientology. I see this especially for those indoctrinated quite early, as small children. I am so very glad I do not have that to bear.

No, actually, I enjoy going through my very pissed off stages as on the other side of that I realize a great deal of growth.

Emma was kind enough to reach out to me when I first got onto ESMB as she saw I was going through a heavy time confronting the realizations one has when one finds out the truth. Sometimes it can hit one like a ton of bricks. It has to be gone through.

Well, she told me that it was impossible to process all the data (and everything that eventually gets stripped off) in a short amount of time and that it can take years. At that time I thought I was confronting everything and thought that she wasn't talking about me but about "other people'. Over the last year, I have really come to understand what she meant. :yes:
 

Sindy

Crusader
Great post!!! :yes:

It's funny that since I decided not to involve myself further with Hubbard and Scientology I've come to realize just how small the CoS actually is. They have no power over you unless of course you still believe or have family/friends still members. In fact the amount of freedom, abilities and happiness that you do have far exceeds any of their top OTs or so-call trained auditors/execs and it doesn't cost you a single penny. Synthia, you had a great time and your ex-friend didn't all because of perverted ideas of Hubbard.

That's a surprisingly profound statement. :think:
 

Sindy

Crusader
Gadfly, Thank You for articulating so well the exact reasons I will no longer participate in the COS. :clap::clap:
The concepts of "administrative SP" and "case SP" do become muddled when, as a student, you are studying one(case) and see around you all the actions relating to the other (admin).
The idea that one should avoid anyone for the reasons given by COS after spending all that time and money to arrive at OT whatever where one should be able to confront and "handle" anything and anyone is evil. It is suppression in the best sense of the word.

BTW, I don't, myself, "believe" or even see verifiable, clear cut evidence for either of these two types of SP as Hubbard defines them either in writing or by the actions taken against them. Life is not so black and white.
 

Sindy

Crusader
Great post, Synthia.

Isn't it sad that in this day and age people are so insulated from reality that they suffer from such outrageous superstitions? They're being told that going up the bridge makes them stronger, more perseptive and that it increases not just their ability but also their willingness to "confront evil". Yet when the occasion arises they panic and avoid the confrontation - because they've been told to do this.

Apparently their case gets more fragile the farther up the bridge they go, but they cannot compute that this flies in the face of all the promises they were made about their increased confront. Sad. But also funny. Maybe one day they can laugh about this, I'm laughing already.

:faceslap:

Ya know, the application of the "Toughness" PL really only gets enforced on staff and really only in the SO for all intents and purposes. I started thinking about that and it would seem that a wimpy, fragile public is good for business but not for staff. That's part of the double standard.

If Scientology really, truly made people more able in the way it so categorically states, it would be out of "customers" in short order in the same way that hospitals and doctors' offices would empty out if medicine actually cured disease.
 

Sindy

Crusader
Well, more and more these days even the most devoted are becoming unwilling to buy into people they have known for 20 or 30 years just got discovered overnight to be an SP.

The " Oh I audited you" & " Oh, you audited me " & I came to you when I was confused and you were my stable tech terminal for so many years & " I saw you this, that and the other" etc etc etc.

As they get down to fewer and fewer fish left in the barrel it is getting harder and harder to make people kill their few remaining friends.

Scientology? It ain't working.

Here, in Chicago, they're still pretty much toeing the line. I wish our field was more like Cinci's :coolwink:
 

Sindy

Crusader
<snipped>

Oh, I might add that Hubbard does relate the "mental state" of an SP, as described in the PTS/SP Course, with various "behaviors" described in the issues on the "anti-social personality". Hubbard's idea that the anti-social person "cannot complete cycles of action" is based on the idea that such a person is so stuck in this long-ago incident that he or she endlessly FIGHTS to STOP the overwhlem from occurring. Thus, the person "can't move" through anything. Of course it doesn't make sense how textbook "SPs" like Hitler and Stalin then got SO MUCH "done".

<snipped>

I know! That used to give me quite a healthy dose of cognitive dissonance.

So, on the one hand we have these complete loser SPs who always make mistakes, can't complete cycles of action, only deal in yesterdays, can't plan for any future, can't see, have martians and FBI agents all around them (Hubbard anyone?), etc., etc.

vs.

"Those guys up there mean business (I never knew who "those guys" were). We have to match or better their efforts or we're all doomed" "Psychiatry is the sole source of decline of this universe"

The sole source of decline and they've never gotten anything done or completed cycles of action?

These odd ideas that get thrown out require lots of mind bending.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
I know! That used to give me quite a healthy dose of cognitive dissonance.

So, on the one hand we have these complete loser SPs who always make mistakes, can't complete cycles of action, only deal in yesterdays, can't plan for any future, can't see, have martians and FBI agents all around them (Hubbard anyone?), etc., etc.

vs.

"Those guys up there mean business (I never knew who "those guys" were). We have to match or better their efforts or we're all doomed" "Psychiatry is the sole source of decline of this universe"

The sole source of decline and they've never gotten anything done or completed cycles of action?

These odd ideas that get thrown out require lots of mind bending.

There is no shortage of MAJOR contradictions in Scientology. :omg:

The endless contradictions just keep coming, and coming and coming . . . . .

I would love to see somebody go through ESMB (and other boards) and list out all the many contradictions that have been brought to view about Hubbard and Scientology.

By the way I also very much understand about "geting mad" and "worked up" about some screwy aspect of Scientology. It seriously irks me once in awhile to see or be heavily reminded of how they continue to get away with their "attack tactics".

Back a ways, I went through a great deal of upset, HE & R, and generally being really pissed off at all the many insanities and contradictions of the organization and subject of Scientology. Comm Evs, declares, disconnection, losing friends, expecting to find sanity (the "safest place on Earth - Flag) only to find brutal INSANITY - one doesn't take those lightly.

I think that an occassional blast of REALLY PISSED OFF keeps the reality of the problem of Scientology in focus. :yes:

But, from a "peaceful state of mind" approach, they are for the most part as significant to me as an ant on the butt of pink elephant sitting in a shallow crater on the dark side of the moon! In other words, they are not worh an ounce of my own care or concern. They are INSIGNIFICANT as a force in this world.
 

Sindy

Crusader
.......

But, from a "peaceful state of mind" approach, they are for the most part as significant to me as an ant on the butt of pink elephant sitting in a shallow crater on the dark side of the moon! In other words, they are not worh an ounce of my own care or concern. They are INSIGNIFICANT as a force in this world.

:thumbsup: Sounds like a good recipe for a harmonious state of being. :)

All and all, I'm pretty happy with how far I have brought my state of mind so far (with the help of every onre here) having been out only since May of 2010 and having just finished a staff contract as the IAS Membership Officer :coolwink: :omg:
 

Moosejewels

Patron Meritorious
Arrogant dismissal is a carefully cultivated skill, practiced by L. Ron Hubbard, David Miscavige and other disciples within the Scientology culture.

Cultivated.

Culture.

Dealing with dedicated Scientologists is alway very...difficult.

Excellent, excellent point !
I tried but was never able to completely master the proper ARROGANT DISMISSAL so prevalent in the mission / org during my "progress" from raw public to scienobot.
ARROGENT emptyheaded, downright rude DISMISSSAL of anyone not in the ARROGANT DISMISSAL club. :thumbsup:
 
Originally Posted by Gadfly
<snipped>

Oh, I might add that Hubbard does relate the "mental state" of an SP, as described in the PTS/SP Course, with various "behaviors" described in the issues on the "anti-social personality". Hubbard's idea that the anti-social person "cannot complete cycles of action" is based on the idea that such a person is so stuck in this long-ago incident that he or she endlessly FIGHTS to STOP the overwhlem from occurring. Thus, the person "can't move" through anything. Of course it doesn't make sense how textbook "SPs" like Hitler and Stalin then got SO MUCH "done".

<snipped>
I know! That used to give me quite a healthy dose of cognitive dissonance.

So, on the one hand we have these complete loser SPs who always make mistakes, can't complete cycles of action, only deal in yesterdays, can't plan for any future, can't see, have martians and FBI agents all around them (Hubbard anyone?), etc., etc.

vs.

"Those guys up there mean business (I never knew who "those guys" were). We have to match or better their efforts or we're all doomed" "Psychiatry is the sole source of decline of this universe"

The sole source of decline and they've never gotten anything done or completed cycles of action?

These odd ideas that get thrown out require lots of mind bending.

I need to teach you about SP's

A) they are surrounded with hench-persons who can get things done. Don't you ever watch any movies? Darth Vader wasn't exactly a nice person to work for. But he had hench-people to burn.

B) Zenu - wasn't he the SP to end all SPs? Trashed most of this corner of the galaxy - did he complete the cycle of action? No. So he obviously fits that anti social personality catagory. Hitler didn't (sorry - I don't mean to offend) kill off all of the Jews either - see? Didn't complete his cycle of action. Ergo, he's an sp. Tch, tch.

Where in the bulletin does it say what size of incomplete cycle it has to be?

Back to word clearing!!! Clay demo that bitch!:omg:

******
I really, really love the OP and some of the responses like Gadflys - it really makes me feel a whole lot better talking to scios. Why should I go out a valence around them anyway? What have they got going for them that I have to bow down to them? Hell, if they don't like that I am a card carrying, commy, pinko SP, F'm if they can't take a joke.

Mimsey
 
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Sindy

Crusader
I need to teach you about SP's

A) they are surrounded with hench-persons who can get things done. Don't you ever watch any movies? Darth Vader wasn't exactly a nice person to work for. But he had hench-people to burn.

B) Zenu - wasn't he the SP to end all SPs? Trashed most of this corner of the galaxy - did he complete the cycle of action? No. So he obviously fits that anti social personality catagory. Hitler didn't (sorry - I don't mean to offend) kill off all of the Jews either - see? Didn't complete his cycle of action. Ergo, he's an sp. Tch, tch.

Where in the bulletin does it say what size of incomplete cycle it has to be?

Back to word clearing!!! Clay demo that bitch!:omg:

******
I really, really love the OP and some of the responses like Gadflys - it really makes me feel a whole lot better talking to scios - hell, if they don't like that I am a card carrying, commy, pinko SP, F'm if they can't take a joke.

Mimsey

Good point, we weren't THINKING BIG enough Mimsey. Again, Ron was right. :biggrin:
 

Jachs

Gold Meritorious Patron
Both Ron Hubbard and David Miscavige can finish a cycle on a bottle of spirits a night.
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
. . .

Sindy Fagen | October 17, 2011 at 11:07 pm | Reply

. . . <snip general excellence> . . . I think that you will see that certain people who post on ESMB,myself included, will have a hard time being told that they are PTS/SP types simply because they are not buying the whole fairytale (and yes, some of the official LRH history/legacy/story etc. is a fairytale) hook, line and sinker. To expect them to is, quite frankly, still a bit of cult like behavior in that it is denigrating someone for having a viewpoint based on official docs and then enforcing what one wants or wishes the truth to be instead of that which is.

QFT
 
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Good twin

Floater
I spent sometime hanging out with Scientologists after I was out and posting here at ESMB for some time. I even went to an event and one night I found myself in the most awkward of positions for a closet SP, I actually supervised the purif when I stopped by to turn down an invitation of some sort. But that's all old news from my early stories.

One funny conversation at an event buffet table went like this.....

Old Friend/Long time Scientologist: What are you doing?

Good twin: Eating a meatball

Old Friend/Long time Scientgologist: I mean "on the bridge".

Good twin: Oh. I'm blown.

OF/LtS: You should get handled.

Good twin: I have an appointment.

OF/LtS: Cool. Are there any more meatballs?


It was exactly like that. I felt untouchable. Everyone was so happy to see me, but no one really wanted to upset the apple cart. The real advantage we have as exes is that we know the drills they are operating on. We know exactly what they are going to say and write up and avoid and pretend to understand. Meanwhile they haven't a clue what we know and feel and are experiencing. We can crash their party any time. We know the rules they obey don't apply to us anymore.

You're right Sin. They empower us. :thumbsup:
 

Infinite

Troublesome Internet Fringe Dweller
Now, why did I start singing this . . .

[video=youtube;W8C9U7pMvmc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8C9U7pMvmc[/video]


. . . ^^^ thread of excellence.
 
The 5 types of SP in Scientology

Just to clarify.....

1) the duck hunter - from the viewpoint of the duck, the hunter is an SP even though the hunter is harming only to survive.

2) the crazy psych - the classic 2 1/2%er, who has it in for you (such as ex-wife's lawyer) - the spectrum ranges from wanting to suppress just you on up to the Zenu types of whole track "kill - em all", stuck in an incident, psychs that have made the decent persons life a living hell.

3) the violator - has committed some crime covered in a bulletin or policy

4) the attacker - someone who knows some of the churches dirty laundry or realizes it is a scam and starts yapping. Is declared to keep the faithful sheep from bolting after talking to him / her.

5) the usurper - any person who possibly could wrest the throne from the fearless leader. ( such as most of the staff at old St. Hill...)

Except for #1, all can be handled by becoming cause and simply disconnecting from them.

HOWEVER!

In the Indy world there only 2 SP's! DM and the 2 1/2" %ers

Your in-tech, on-source maven,

Mimsey
 
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