The State of Clear

[The Anabaptist Jacques]

I think the disregard for the history of the Church and Scientology is intentional.

History depends on interpretation.

And with history one gets a wider perspective.

And Scientology doesn't allow interpretation nor a wider perspective.

In Scientology, history has to be written to serve the present.

And the step better than that is not to mention the history at all.

The Anabaptist Jacques

 

[Gadfly]

<snip>

It looks to me like the cult's current members don't ever want to remember what and why things happened before today.

Hey, they are "in PT"! (sarcasm)

What past?????? :confused2:

Granted they are BRUTALLY LOCKED "into PT" and not happily, calmly and fully aware "in PT".

Big difference.

The Church of Scientology obsessively forces people "into the moment", with the latest "event", newest "briefing", fantastic new rundown, amazing breakthrough book package, latest over-exaggerated story about Ron, DM's latest message that ALL MUST HEAR IMMEDIATELY, some Hill 10, some "emergency" demanding immediate attention, a course that you MUST DO NOW, a super-duper NEW data that will blow your socks off, Scientology's most recent HUGE WINS to clear the planet, being ordered to "report NOW to the ethics officer", ...... ad nauseum.

Plus, in Scientology, members are heavily indoctrinated (brainwashed) to NEVER accept or pass along "bad news" (i.e. entheta), which translates into meaning that they NEVER accept or discuss ANYTHING negative about Scientology's past or Hubbard's past (no matter how true or relevant such facts might be). If they did accept or pass along such (truthful) information, they might "be an SP" for exhibiting a trait of the so-called "anti-social" personality - and THAT is one of the worse possible fears for an over-indoctrinated Scientolgist who has fully bought into the Hubbard fairy-tale paradigm.

 

[RogerB]

Originally Posted by Mark A. Baker
Hey, YOUR the one with the obvious misconception about ESMB's purpose and what constitutes an 'ex-scientologist' for the purposes of this board. Don't go laying your hangups on me.

Did you read the FAQ yet?


Mark A. Baker

Mark, I can't believe that you said YOUR instead of YOU'RE!

Shit, Dag must have really gotten at him!

Oh yes, while I'm here . . . . Mark, are you up to date on the shark attack thing in that little corner of Oz I was speaking of last month? Last heard the count is now three . . . the last being again fatal. That's three in about a month or so . . . all in the same or neighboring locations. Seems the poor souls weren't on ESMB to get my warning . . . or they instead listened to your expertise on the subject

R

 

[DagwoodGum]

Hey, YOUR the one with the obvious misconception about ESMB's purpose and what constitutes an 'ex-scientologist' for the purposes of this board. Don't go laying your hangups on me.

Did you read the FAQ yet?


Mark A. Baker

MAB Man,

I didn't sign up for your class. Wrong tree you're barking up.

 

[DagwoodGum]

Shit, Dag must have really gotten at him!

Oh yes, while I'm here . . . . Mark, are you up to date on the shark attack thing in that little corner of Oz I was speaking of last month? Last heard the count is now three . . . the last being again fatal. That's three in about a month or so . . . all in the same or neighboring locations. Seems the poor souls weren't on ESMB to get my warning . . . or they instead listened to your expertise on the subject

R

Seems the poor souls weren't on ESMB to get my warning . . . or they instead listened to your expertise on the subject

Seems that a person with true expertise on the subject would have a nice swim out there accompanied by a nice long look-see to put his money where his mouth is, or where the shark's mouth is... His pockets packed with tuna might help like garlic helps ward off vampires?!?

 

[spbill]

This is a well commented on subject.

The tech dictionary (as I remember it) describes Clear as "Being at cause over mental matter, energy, space & time".

On looking up "at cause" it said ; Able to greate or uncreate.

The state of Clear occurs when the person realises that they ate mocking it all up.

IMHO one needs to go further. Telling someone he is mocking up his bank will not make him Clear (even if he believes you). It is necessary for the person to cease creating unconsciousness. Easier said than done
spbill

 

[Auditor's Toad]

The State of Clear = BatShit Crazy Cult Beliefs

No scn'gist would ever be in any danger from a shark attack if they were only a "clear" as it would be impossible for such things to happen to them.

Plus, the OTs would have postulated such "bad things" from happening.

The Marty believers just couldn't possible believe in pulling anything so downtone and entheta as a shark attack. Given the rumor that Marty won't keep a fish unless it agrees to fulfill its duty to be human food. Anyone else hear of some of the fish being released after being given a Touch Assist first to make sure " they make it "?

Truely such an Ethical Group as Marty's is destined to protect all mankind.

No wonder so many have flocked to Marty and his promise to restore the Glory of Hubtard.

 

[Gadfly]

IMHO one needs to go further. Telling someone he is mocking up his bank will not make him Clear (even if he believes you). It is necessary for the person to cease creating unconsciousness. Easier said than done
spbill

That is a great point, and a major FLAW I always saw with Scientology, Just realizing that you have been an asshole or idiot or moron in some regard does not mean that you cease being those things in the future.

Just realizing that "I mocked it up" does NOT prevent you, not at all, from continuing to "mock it up".

From a eastern perspective, you mock it ALL up. So, as long as you are "here", you will be "mocking it up". Scientology itself readily admits that a great majority of the "gain" is "negative gain" - getting rid of "negative things". But until one actually learns how to control and manage a mind, ANY MIND, without committing all the errors of "mocking up" and "automaticities", it will simply start or trigger again.

Scientology never actually TRAINS anyone to be the "master" of your own mind. It acts as if this ability will somehow magically be bestowed upon you by removing "bad things". That is just NOT the case. Removing "bad things" is NOT the same as creating GOOD THINGS.

Hubbard was right, sort of, "a cleared cannibal is still a cannibal". And a cleared moronic Earth human, with a mind filled with Hubbard's extensive fairy-tales and fictions, is still a "moronic Earth human, with a mind filled with Hubbard's extensive fairy-tales and fictions"!

 

[Terril park]

Pab 12 is used as a red herring. A distraction. Have people do Pab 12 - as I recall, it has a practical section - if it's so wonderful.

Do you? No, you steer them in the direction of OT 2 and OT 3, which have never produced "OTs," and in some instances have produced people who are either physically or mentally ill or both.

Your own "case" is stalled and you have not progressed onto OT 4.

Your "natural Clear" attest is dubious to say the least.

You've all the appearances of a "by-passed case."

If you think the OT levels are so great, then prove it by doing your next level.

Its interesting to see that although you claim to actually like lower levels,
and think upper levels are nonsense, you are very happy to use these concepts to
invalidate and evaluate in an attempt to confuse overwhelm and introvert others.

Like those who photo shopped me on dog turds this post says nothing about me.
It shows in the case of the photoshoppers that their sense of humour never graduated from the infantile. In your case it is more disgusting, it shows a mean vindictive small minded wish to hurt someone in the cause of their own self rightious crusade. You are seen here in your true colours.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Re: The State of Clear = BatShit Crazy Cult Beliefs

Veda, please remember when dealing with these "clears" & "OTs" to keep it "theta" and "uptone" as they do not deal well with "entheta" or "downtone".

And, gawd forbid, if one gets out into what they consider " J & D " the doo-doo will hit the fan.

Keep it light and airy so the Marty fans can be happy !

 

[Terril park]

Phil Spickler has great stories (good and bad) of LRH for three decades. I don't see any Scientologists even sitting him down and pumping him for human interest stories of the founder.

It looks to me like the cult's current members don't ever want to remember what and why things happened before today.

One reason I suggested he make some videos. Also some who have left the cult
aren't always too happy to hear some things.

One of the stories that havn't as yet made it to his videos is his successful
singlehanded attempt to regain the religious status for COS in the eyes of the IRS in around 1975. That earned him his final declare.

 

[Veda]

Its interesting to see that although you claim to actually like lower levels,
and think upper levels are nonsense, you are very happy to use these concepts to
invalidate and evaluate in an attempt to confuse overwhelm and introvert others.

Like those who photo shopped me on dog turds this post says nothing about me.
It shows in the case of the photoshoppers that their sense of humour never graduated from the infantile. In your case it is more disgusting, it shows a mean vindictive small minded wish to hurt someone in the cause of their own self rightious crusade. You are seen here in your true colours.

I didn't like that post either, since I was using your own Scientology Tech on you, which was, IMO, not OK. So I've modified it and deleted a couple of sentences.

Pab 12 is used as a red herring. A distraction. Have people do Pab 12 - as I recall, it has a practical section - if it's so wonderful.

Do you? No, you steer them in the direction of OT 2 and OT 3, which have never produced "OTs," and in some instances have produced people who are either physically or mentally ill or both.

If you think the OT levels are so great, then prove it by doing your next level.

You may now return to selling the Commodore Hubbard/Emperor Xenu Bridge.

 

[Veda]

-snip-

One of the stories that havn't as yet made it to his videos is his successful
singlehanded attempt to regain the religious status for COS in the eyes of the IRS in around 1975. That earned him his final declare.

Phil is a nice person but he was very naive in 1975. Scientology was a dishonest for-profit operation in 1975 - and didn't want to be anything other than that - and still is today. The IRS about-face that granted tax exempt status was the result of decades of harassment and frivolous lawsuits, and the possible blackmailing of the IRS Commissioner.


Excerpt from 1960 HCOPL 'Department of Government Affairs':

"If attacked [in this case being "attacked" = being asked to pay taxes] on some vulnerable point by anyone or anything or any organization, always find or manufacture enough threat against them to get them to sue for peace...

"The goal of the Department [of Government Affairs, renamed Guardians Office, renamed Office of Special Affairs] is to bring the government and hostile philosophies or societies into a state of complete compliance... This is done by high level ability to control and in its absence by low level ability to overwhelm. Introvert such agencies. Control such agencies."

"Make money. Make more money." L. Ron Hubbard, 1972

From the 1991 article by David Mayo. http://www.ivymag.org/iv-01-02.html

"It was PR and marketing considerations that led Hubbard to decide that certain people were 'clear' at a certain point..."

From author Russell Miller's interview of David Mayo from August 1986 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/mayo.htm

Concerning the time when Mayo was with Hubbard, in 1978:

"What worried me was that I saw some things he did and statements he made that showed his intentions were different from what they appeared to be...

"He told me he was obsessed with an insatiable lust for power and money. He said it very emphatically. He thought it wasn't possible to get enough. He didn't say it as if it was a fault, just his frustration that he couldn't get enough."

 

[Gadfly]

Can someone provide a link to PAB 12?

I sold my PAB set and Red Volumes on eBay last year, so I have nothing to refer to.

 

[Jachs]

.. here

P.A.B. No. 12
PROFESSIONAL AUDITOR’S BULLETIN

From L
Via H Communications Office
163 Holland Park Avenue, London W.11

_____________________________________________________________________

[1953, ca. late October]

THE CYCLE OF ACTION OF AN EXPLOSION

I am even getting complaints from auditors that some of these processes work so rapidly that after a one
or two-hour session the preclears are so well they never come back for a second
session......

So I feel very sorry about these techniques
working so fast and ruining people’s practices.

removed

 

[Veda]

Unnecessary correction deleted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D6l9K-IrNk

Scientology orientation film substituted.

 

[Gadfly]

Oops wrong one .. here it is.

Ill remove it after a couple of hours..

Thanks, downloaded and will read later.

 

[Dulloldfart]

One reason I suggested he make some videos.

Sic Tatiana onto him. Do they live fairly close to each other?

Paul

 

[Terril park]

Originally Posted by Terril park

"Its interesting to see that although you claim to actually like lower levels,
and think upper levels are nonsense, you are very happy to use these concepts to
invalidate and evaluate in an attempt to confuse overwhelm and introvert others.

Like those who photo shopped me on dog turds this post says nothing about me.
It shows in the case of the photoshoppers that their sense of humour never graduated from the infantile. In your case it is more disgusting, it shows a mean vindictive small minded wish to hurt someone in the cause of their own self rightious crusade. You are seen here in your true colours."

VEDA

"I didn't like that post either, since I was using your own Scientology Tech on you, which was, IMO, not OK. So I've modified it and deleted a couple of sentences."


TERRIL

You claim the tech as your own also in some posts.

So much heart rending Mea Culpa! For using Scn tech on me.

So you position your " Mea Culpa" as using it on me, as in against me. The crime
apparently using concepts you have abandoned.



This may be considered a category of " Theetie Wheetie".

Most who have some familiarity of tech will understand that.



On your original post you stated:-



"Your own "case" is stalled and you have not progressed onto OT 4.

Your "natural Clear" attest is dubious to say the least.

You've all the appearances of a "by-passed case."


Anyone with some knowledge of scientology might understand this as
coming from a benign C/S in possession of all PC folders. Lol!

And might understand a C/S would not phrase this so indelicately.

Well we know Veda is not wearing the hat of a C/S.

Nor does he have any C/S folders of mine. But he has gossip!

And it is clear [ sic] that his evaluations are intended to introvert and overwhelm.

And he has not read my posts on doing experimental GPM tech which included
effort processing, repeater tech and creative processing. All some of the most
powerful tools in the box. I didn't post them broadly. I promote standard scn. I try to
reach those in CO$ and free them. Mostly they are not up to looking at revolutionary
methods.

What one sees with Veda is a similar black PR effort to discredit FZ/independent scientologists as CO$.

OSA on various websites characterizes me as a drunk. As they do most FZers.

They characterise me as an idiot because I promote scn on antagonistic websites.

Ha! Google "Framing"!

There are no open forums re scn where there is not extreme antagonism to CO$.

Not even Myspace.

This is in fact the most liberal public scn forum.

Not even OSA tries to fuck me over with the case evals Veda uses.

Tried many times to extend a friendly comm line to this guy. Don't work.

Lots of the data he posts is useful.

His opinions are IMO limiting. Even detrimental.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Terril ... take a look at the bottom right corner of every post on ESMB ... it says "Reply With Quote" and if you use that it means others know who you are replying to ... it's easier for you and its easier for everyone else to understand your posts.

You can delete bits of the quoted posts if you wish to, but use it as a starting point will ya?​