Could the Co$ survive with a Third Leader

[Man de la Mancha]

Post your resume on Linkedin.

I believe that site is blocked by Scn Inc's net nanny software!

 

[Caliwog]

For a non-spiritual example, look at the number of leaders that Apple Computer had.

Good analogy, because I've always thought that Apple is a cult, too!

(Caliwog uses Linux and Windows)

 

[Caliwog]

The only possible one I can think of would be Heber, Guillaume is also pretty well thought of.

Oh, God, I would fucking LOVE it if Heber Jentschzchsshz became the leader of the Church! He's SUCH a PR train wreck, he does so much to keep people OUT of Scientology, and yet the Scientologists just love him! But I don't think he'll ever became the leader, only because I am not that lucky.

This calls for a new avatar.

 

[Thrak]

Oh, God, I would fucking LOVE it if Heber Jentschzchsshz became the leader of the Church! He's SUCH a PR train wreck, he does so much to keep people OUT of Scientology, and yet the Scientologists just love him! But I don't think he'll ever became the leader, only because I am not that lucky.

This calls for a new avatar.

After being in the hole for 10 years I don't think he's going to be leading much of anything.

 

[GoNuclear]

Debbie Cook was interviewed after the TRO trial. She was asked in the interview if she thought the Church could be salvaged after all this.

I don't think that someone can slip into the position of Church leader and pull it off for a 3rd time after all that has been revealed.

What are your thoughts?

My guess is that DM will not leave much behind, he will take all he can and attempt to destroy all the rest. Not much will be there for the next head honcho. But, even still, it wouldn't be a bad gig for your average megalomaniac psychopath cult leader. After all, your average cult leader only has a small group like Charlie Manson. If DM leaves behind, say, just over 1000 dedicated followers, that is plenty of human punching bags and groupies for an up and coming psychopath.

Pete

 

[GoNuclear]

I would like to be the new leader of Scientology. I will be a very good boss. Orgs and staff will prosper and morale will be high. Can anyone tell me who I should contact about this?

Start by reading "Pimp: The Story of My Life" by Iceberg Slim aka Robert Beck. The book came out in the late 60's. Beck was repentent of his life and former occupation, but, wanted to tell his story. Of course, the book was taken the wrong way and became the bible of aspiring wanabee macks.

Pete

 

[GoNuclear]

I will be the new leader. I will shut it down immediately, liquidate ALL assets, and distribute the cash fairly among all staff and public (and people who have been wronged by the cult).

It would be more like the ring of Sauron. You would have to put it on in order to liquidate and disburse. But about that time that you put the ring on, and were served by all those sea org slaves, and had Tom Cruise fone you and ask if he could go riding motorcycles with you ... about the time that you had access to all these young women (that would be my thing, I admit) ... about the time that you had these human punching bags just coming up to you waiting to be abused so you could vent your frustration (not my thing, but nothing is too good for a cult leader) about the time that you got to taste some exquisite gourmet cooking, had your back worked by your own private chiropractor, etc ... you might decide to put off that redistribution project until tomorrow. And of course it would only be easier to put it off further, as you sipped some 30 year old single malt scotch with some celeb friends. And just think ... if you wanted ANYTHING ... all you would have to do is throw a temper tantrum like a 2 year old, the only proviso is that you would have to yell and scream in the appropriate scientologese.

Pete

 

[freethinker]

I started this thread because I really got to wondering if there was anyone who could successfully take the helm from DM and calm the public that all would be OK.

When the TRO trial began, a picture of Mike and Marty beaming into the camera like two cats who cornered the canary, It really got me to thinking.

To me, there is no doubt that Mike and Marty have a dream of ousting Dave and asuming leadership of the Scientology religion.

To pry the religion free from its infamous history and legendary irrationality coupled with Agatha Christie like mysteries would be a magical feat indeed.

If I were to plot how to get rid of the king and restore harmony among the villagers, the scenario that is playing out in this case with Debbie Cook as the true believing victim against the terrible tyrant usurper, is an opportunity of unbelievable fortune to one who wants to claim the throne without damage to the doctrine under which it was formed.

I never thought there would be a way for Marty to take over without damaging Scientology in the process but with the way this is playing out, it has every possibility of ending with that very result of Scientology preserved and DM destroyed.

I would really hate that.

 

[GoNuclear]

I started this thread because I really got to wondering if there was anyone who could successfully take the helm from DM and calm the public that all would be OK.

When the TRO trial began, a picture of Mike and Marty beaming into the camera like two cats who cornered the canary, It really got me to thinking.

To me, there is no doubt that Mike and Marty have a dream of ousting Dave and asuming leadership of the Scientology religion.

To pry the religion free from its infamous history and legendary irrationality coupled with Agatha Christie like mysteries would be a magical feat indeed.

If I were to plot how to get rid of the king and restore harmony among the villagers, the scenario that is playing out in this case with Debbie Cook as the true believing victim against the terrible tyrant usurper, is an opportunity of unbelievable fortune to one who wants to claim the throne without damage to the doctrine under which it was formed.

I never thought there would be a way for Marty to take over without damaging Scientology in the process but with the way this is playing out, it has every possibility of ending with that very result of Scientology preserved and DM destroyed.

I would really hate that.

I wonder how long it would take for Marty to be totally corrupted.

Pete

 

[ClearEyed]

I think the whole Debbie Cook trial is giving credence to the idea that the problem with Scientology is the current regime. (I find myself feeling sympathetic for Debbie Cook, despite knowing better.) Regardless, Scientology's overall situation will never change.

I think it's unlikely that the Church will emerge with a third leader. Unless DM decides to off himself - which I suppose isn't beyond the realm of possibility - he is unlikely to give up control of the Church for the greatest good (which is off-policy). That said, with all its assets, I don't see how the Church could possibly go out of business. Although the focus on DM could have one positive effect: Investigation leading to elimination of the Church's tax-exempt status.

I suppose it's possible that a re-formed Church will arise with Marty Rathbun or someone similar at its head.

Regardless, Scientology will end up back in the news, because the abuses are hard-coded into the tech. We seem to forget that there were no "good old days" of Scientology. Read The Scandal of Scientology (http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/tsos/sos.html) or listen to David Mayo's lectures (http://www.freezoneearth.org/downloads/files.html - scroll down) for a reminder that everything happening now, has happened before.

Scientology is a scam, and no amount of PR can change that.

You're right. There were no good ol' days. Just some days that weren't quite as bad as others.

 

[Caliwog]

I wonder how long it would take for Marty to be totally corrupted.

Done.

 

[Freeminds]

. . .
I never thought there would be a way for Marty to take over without damaging Scientology in the process but with the way this is playing out, it has every possibility of ending with that very result of Scientology preserved and DM destroyed.

I would really hate that.

We've all been watching Scientology contract and lose influence for years now. It puts me in mind of when you see an ice sheet break up at the end of the winter. It doesn't just uniformly increase in temperature until suddenly the whole mass has reached zero °C and it magically disappears. Rather, it breaks up. Ice floes drift away from the main body, and I imagine Marty Rathbun as being the 'commodore' (in full regalia) of one such fragment.

Marty's playing "my berg's better than your berg" while conveniently ignoring the fact that - just like the one upon which 'commodore' Mismanage and his followers are perched - the ice is thinning fast. More cracks are inevitable, and with each schism the rate of melting increases.

Some patches of ice survive longer than others, but everyone knows it can't last forever, once the spring comes. The season has changed now; Scientology doesn't do at all well when exposed to daylight, and warmth. Information is that warmth. Scientology inc. might fake occasional bomb threats against itself, but the real threat is information, and Scientology is afloat in a sea of it.

Bring on those cracks, splits, and subdivisions. Let Marty and whoever else cares to play have their own iceberg. They should enjoy it while they can, because the thaw has come.

 

[Minuet #1 in G]

To a scientologist, the consequences of there not being a scientology world are unconfrontable. Anyone taking over the leadership would have to maintain this ridiculous facade of scientology winning in the world, soaring stats and all the other PR bullshit. There would have to be a maintenance of current mechanisms to stop people learning the truth; scientology stats are down, failing orgs, little or no influence on world conditions, tech not infallible, with many people being "failed cases".

Consider an honest leadership which promoted true stats and told the flock what was really going on. Dont think such an approach would engendered the level of fanaticism needed to keep the ship afloat. Scio would just be another self help group, some thing to do for the want of something better. You could just go bowling instead of being on course.

So to perpetuate scientology, the cultic attitudes would have to prevail. This means a dishonest psychopathic leadership. Any future leader would preside over an ever diminishing field which couldnt help but find out what was going on. I think there could be a third leader, a reform, but all too soon the old methods would be employed again resulting in a more vehement backlash.

I vote for Gadfly. Dismantle C of S and give the money back. Ill send in an invoice (interest added).

 

[GoNuclear]

Marty's playing "my berg's better than your berg" while conveniently ignoring the fact that - just like the one upon which 'commodore' Mismanage and his followers are perched - the ice is thinning fast. More cracks are inevitable, and with each schism the rate of melting increases.

Commodore Mismanage ...

Pete

 

[GoNuclear]

To a scientologist, the consequences of there not being a scientology world are unconfrontable. Anyone taking over the leadership would have to maintain this ridiculous facade of scientology winning in the world, soaring stats and all the other PR bullshit. There would have to be a maintenance of current mechanisms to stop people learning the truth; scientology stats are down, failing orgs, little or no influence on world conditions, tech not infallible, with many people being "failed cases".

Consider an honest leadership which promoted true stats and told the flock what was really going on. Dont think such an approach would engendered the level of fanaticism needed to keep the ship afloat. Scio would just be another self help group, some thing to do for the want of something better. You could just go bowling instead of being on course.

So to perpetuate scientology, the cultic attitudes would have to prevail. This means a dishonest psychopathic leadership. Any future leader would preside over an ever diminishing field which couldnt help but find out what was going on. I think there could be a third leader, a reform, but all too soon the old methods would be employed again resulting in a more vehement backlash.

I vote for Gadfly. Dismantle C of S and give the money back. Ill send in an invoice (interest added).

There is another scenario ... multiple independent splinter groups all claiming that they are the true successor to the Cof$, the one with the standard pure LRH drek. Oops, I meant tech. Part of the trip would be that since they would have to acknowledge the defeat of the Cof$ by various suppressives or psychiatriac plots, they could all have one thing in common ... they could be super serious, clandestine, totally dedicated, etc.

Pete

 

[Minuet #1 in G]

There is another scenario ... multiple independent splinter groups all claiming that they are the true successor to the Cof$, the one with the standard pure LRH drek. Oops, I meant tech. Part of the trip would be that since they would have to acknowledge the defeat of the Cof$ by various suppressives or psychiatriac plots, they could all have one thing in common ... they could be super serious, clandestine, totally dedicated, etc.

Pete

Well this would be interesting as there could be a huge stoush over the cash. There would have to be some sort of outside mediation to determine the rightful controlling entity of the money. Once a not for profit entity disintegrates, something has to happen to the funds. And all those buildings!

 

[Gadfly]

Well this would be interesting as there could be a huge stoush over the cash. There would have to be some sort of outside mediation to determine the rightful controlling entity of the money. Once a not for profit entity disintegrates, something has to happen to the funds. And all those buildings!

As another person mentioned, I would also love to see it play out in courts - establishing all the dummy corporations, who are signatories, the flow chart of control, the relationships of all the various "corporate structures", etc.

What a mish mash . . . .

And, all the signed resignation letters by board members leaving DM ALWAYS in total control . . . . .

I assume DM could channel large amount of monies to whatever numbered swiss bank accounts he wanted to.

On the buildings, the org PUBLIC in every city should show up and sue to get their funds BACK.

Once it is really seen to be collapsing, the vultures will appear from everywhere - to pick the remains dry!

I will be part of the class action lawsuit up for my IAS donations.

 

[asteroid]

Good analogy, because I've always thought that Apple is a cult, too!

(Caliwog uses Linux and Windows)

From the outside, it can seem that way, because Apple customers are so passionate (and will shout down anyone who criticizes anything about its products).

From the inside, though, Microsoft has been far more of a cult. Microsoft employees would speak of Gates (back when he was actively involved) with a respectful hush in their voices. They'd repeat inane things that Gates said as if they were revelations. It creeped us out.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

From the outside, it can seem that way, because Apple customers are so passionate (and will shout down anyone who criticizes anything about its products).

From the inside, though, Microsoft has been far more of a cult. Microsoft employees would speak of Gates (back when he was actively involved) with a respectful hush in their voices. They'd repeat inane things that Gates said as if they were revelations. It creeped us out.

Microsoft is known as "The Evil Empire."

 

[La La Lou Lou]

There will be a rush for the money and huge lumps will go to people never heard of, or lawyers and unheard of corporate entities. Real people like us won't get a dime, brass farthing or copper sou. Someone will get really rich, possibly called Mavis Discarriage. It will all be legally smooth. Then Dave will fly off in a flying saucer with Hubbard himself, shouting ''see you suckers''!

You know I really shouldn't have taken that LSD in the early seventies!