Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview)

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

Again, I fail to understand why one must be a Christian to discuss the tenets of the faith? Christianity has changed over time, yes. Every religion changes over time. Rabbinic Judaism rose out of necessity when the Temple was destroyed. Referencing ideas and beliefs that were discarded by early Christians does not make a convincing case for a peaceful co-existence between Christianity and Scientology.

Now that I think of it, they are both pretty hardcore evangelical faiths. That makes it even less likely that they could work together.

Asian/Eastern faiths are able to work together. There are plenty of people who are able to float between Buddhism, Taoism, Shinto... But they are very different than Christianity.

what?!?!?

you think commaner birdsong ever wants to impinge on anyone's freedom of speech?!?!?

but it does sound as if some nonchristians are speaking as if they were the voice of authority on what a christian may believe and practice

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

I don't have time to read this whole thread but I thought I would post some links to information available on the internet which discusses this topic at length.

The last link is an amazing collection of of documents and books on Scientology and Religiosity. Included there is the booklet Scientology and The Bible, compiled by some scientologists in the UK many moons ago.

As a christian, and after research on the matter, I can only state that Scientology is not compatible with Christianity. But read for yourselves the research of others on the subject.

Is Scientology Compatible With Christianity?
John Weldon, Christian Research Journal, 1993.
Theological presuppositions (Scientology beliefs regarding God, Man, Creation, Salvation, Death, and the Occult) and Critique.
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/s22.html

What Christians Need to Knowabout Scientology

by Margery Wakefield (1991
http://www.scribd.com/doc/65187964/What-Christians-Need-to-Know-about-Scientology-Wakefield


Scientology vs Other Faiths

An essay about Scientology and its seeming ability to co-exist with other religions.
by Ro1and Rash1eigh-Berry, June 1998. May be copied freely without restriction
http://www.scribd.com/doc/57699236/Scientology-vs-Other-Faiths

Why Christians Object to Scientology
Craig Branch of the Apologetics Resource Center notes Clear differences.
By Jody Veenker [ posted 9/8/2000 12:00AM ]
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2000/september4/8.93.html

The Scientology Comparative Theology Page
Scientology and Christianity
http://www.ezlink.com/~perry/CoS/Theology/christian.htm

Scientology Criticized 1700 Years Ago,
Peik Stromsholm, 1995.
A comparison of Scientology doctrine to Tertullian's (207 A.D.) treatise "Against the Valentinians", an early Christian work describing why Gnosticism is foreign to Christianity.
http://www.ezlink.com/~perry/CoS/Theology/gnostic.txt

Scientology Religiosity? Series ( C0mpiled by AnonLover )

An Independent Research Series of Publications by Project Chanology Anonymous (WhyWeProtest.net).

Scientology: Theology or Mysticism? Although we strictly protest the abusive practices of the Corporate Scientology empire, we cordially invite you to explore the truth & decide for yourself. This series of publications is a fair usage catalog of excerpts & articles from primary & secondary source materials for educational purposes only. Published for supporting comparative analysis on how the Church of Scientology views its doctrines and L. Ron Hubbard in relation to major religions, ancient mythology, and other religious leaders.

Scientology Religiosity? Volume I
Scientology Religiosity? Volume II
Scientology Religiosity? Volume III
Scientology Religiosity? Volume IV
Scientology Religiosity? Materials Index

See all 79 documents
http://www.scribd.com/collections/3084764/Scientology-Religiosity-Series

ahh...

thank god!

at last a real christian has showed up to slap me around wearing the set of brass knuckles sister blister awarded her for virginal excelence at our lady of perpetual agony grammar school

love ya darlin'

BIG time

i'm hangin' in with the simplicities of scipture and tekk

d'nazz directs i should love my neighbor as i love myself and tekk makes possible to do that in practical fashion

great links! very important and valuable stuff!

 

[Type4_PTS]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

d'nazz directs i should love my neighbor as i love myself and tekk makes possible to do that in practical fashion

It wasn't possible to love your neighbor in a practical fashion prior to Hubbard coming up with the Tech?

How did the Christians handle it prior to the "discovery" of the tech? :confused2:

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

It wasn't possible to love your neighbor in a practical fashion prior to Hubbard coming up with the Tech?

How did the Christians handle it prior to the "discovery" of the tech? :confused2:

well...

there was the spanish inquisition...

that was a lot of fun

five million heretics burned at the stake in the dark ages

far more entertaining than "i love lucy" and "green acres" combined

don't be silly pitsy, we do love as well as we can which is usually a piss poor job of it

and dmsmh is never going to be on the required reading list because only the holy bible is on the required reading list. i know christians who refuse to read any other book at all ever

i began my own study of scripture at the age of five same year i began my study of astronomy

but we Xians have been somewhat vexed by atheist and materialist psychiatry you know and dmsmh helps with that for one thing

i think pitsy if you were to take a good long look in a mirror you'd probably find a guy there who is far too intelligent and decent to be tossing such ludicrous blather at some poor homeless crazy old hippie

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

and how about auschwitz as emblematic of how far we christians had advanced by the twentieth century?

and the 21st century christians strutting about referring to the holocaust as "the holy cost" for the jews failure to convert

yesiree bob us good ole christians we sho' nuff done got his love your neighbor thing down pat already don't we?

 

[Bill]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

ahh...
d'nazz directs i should love my neighbor as i love myself and tekk makes possible to do that in practical fashion

I haven't read the material but if that's the Scientology line, wow - just wow. What "tech" would that be to help us all "love our neighbor"? Would that be the declaration of enemy? Disconnection? The "them vs. us" mentality? The vast Galactic Psych conspiracy? "Acceptable" truths? Fair game and harass them until they "sue for peace"?

Maybe the Sci tech for "love thy neighbor" is "Big League Sales Closing Techniques" and "Hard Sell". "Once they are us, we'll love them!"

Yeah, that's the tech.

Come to think of it, maybe Scientology really is a religion.

Bill

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

I haven't read the material but if that's the Scientology line, wow - just wow. What "tech" would that be to help us all "love our neighbor"? Would that be the declaration of enemy? Disconnection? The "them vs. us" mentality? The vast Galactic Psych conspiracy? "Acceptable" truths? Fair game and harass them until they "sue for peace"?

Maybe the Sci tech for "love thy neighbor" is "Big League Sales Closing Techniques" and "Hard Sell". "Once they are us, we'll love them!"

Yeah, that's the tech.

Come to think of it, maybe Scientology really is a religion.

Bill

uhh, bill

i'm here, i'm not there

how the fuck can anyone think i'd be spouting a CoS line?

 

[Freeminds]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

If Scientology and religion aren't mutually exclusive, that simply demonstrates once again that Scientology is not a religion.

Who the heck ever heard of a religion with a price list, anyway? What a joke!

(Nice Godwin's, BTW, Commander BS.)

 

[Bill]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

uhh, bill

i'm here, i'm not there

how the fuck can anyone think i'd be spouting a CoS line?

I was very, very, very careful to refer to the material you were talking about, stating that I hadn't read that material but if that was the Scientology line ... blah, blah.

At no time did I think, say or even infer that YOU had said that. I'm sorry you misread what I wrote. Perhaps I could have made it even plainer.

Bill

 

[Type4_PTS]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

It wasn't possible to love your neighbor in a practical fashion prior to Hubbard coming up with the Tech?

How did the Christians handle it prior to the "discovery" of the tech? :confused2:

well...

there was the spanish inquisition...

that was a lot of fun

five million heretics burned at the stake in the dark ages

far more entertaining than "i love lucy" and "green acres" combined

I don't see what your response I quoted (above) has anything whatsoever to do with my comment you're responding to. :confused2:

Perhaps you can clarify this?

don't be silly pitsy, we do love as well as we can which is usually a piss poor job of it

I've met many that were quite well at it. And it didn't require any scientology "tech" or any other "tech". Loving others doesn't require "tech".

and dmsmh is never going to be on the required reading list because only the holy bible is on the required reading list. i know christians who refuse to read any other book at all ever

i began my own study of scripture at the age of five same year i began my study of astronomy

but we Xians have been somewhat vexed by atheist and materialist psychiatry you know and dmsmh helps with that for one thing

How don't see how any of this stuff supports your position in any way.

i think pitsy if you were to take a good long look in a mirror you'd probably find a guy there who is far too intelligent and decent to be tossing such ludicrous blather at some poor homeless crazy old hippie

Well we will have to agree to disagree then. As I feel that your implication that a Christian needs Scientology "tech" so he can love his neighbor is ludicrous blather.

 

[Boomima]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

well...

there was the spanish inquisition...

that was a lot of fun

five million heretics burned at the stake in the dark ages

far more entertaining than "i love lucy" and "green acres" combined

don't be silly pitsy, we do love as well as we can which is usually a piss poor job of it

and dmsmh is never going to be on the required reading list because only the holy bible is on the required reading list. i know christians who refuse to read any other book at all ever

i began my own study of scripture at the age of five same year i began my study of astronomy

but we Xians have been somewhat vexed by atheist and materialist psychiatry you know and dmsmh helps with that for one thing

i think pitsy if you were to take a good long look in a mirror you'd probably find a guy there who is far too intelligent and decent to be tossing such ludicrous blather at some poor homeless crazy old hippie

There is nothing about Christianity that makes it incompatible with psychiatry. I can't really think of anything that DMSMH could help with save the emotional release when you toss it at the wall.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

We have a new arrival on ESMB from Australia; here's her intro thread:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?29663-g-day-from-Melbourne


And here's what happened when s/he joined the Sea Org as a Christian:

"..... was verbally attacked and mocked. My bible was torn up, had my cross ripped off my neck. Was asked to denouce Jesus as a delusion which I did not do even after I was struck.

I guess the Sea Org didn't get the word that Scientology and Christianity are compatible, did they?

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

If Scientology and religion aren't mutually exclusive, that simply demonstrates once again that Scientology is not a religion.

Who the heck ever heard of a religion with a price list, anyway? What a joke!

(Nice Godwin's, BTW, Commander BS.)

what do you mean who ever heard of a religion with a pricelist?

the pricelist for indulgences was a primary feature of martin luther's discontent

ummm...

i also seem to vaguely recall something about d'nazz and some money changers in a temple

CoS sells services, training and auditing

i got no problem with that per se, it's when some reg gets hold of a newly widowed old woman and tells her she needs $45,000 worth of "grief counseling" and finds out she owns her home free and clear and goes after that. her kids found out, thank god, put the kibosh to it and posted the story on the web

but it's OK to charge for services

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

I was very, very, very careful to refer to the material you were talking about, stating that I hadn't read that material but if that was the Scientology line ... blah, blah.

At no time did I think, say or even infer that YOU had said that. I'm sorry you misread what I wrote. Perhaps I could have made it even plainer.

Bill

sorry...

i did glance too quickly at your post

semantics can be tough face to face and in writing one cannot hear the person's inflection.

but this form is soooo cool...

your statement is in writing and if hackles go up each person may speak in turn without stepping on each other's comm

 

[Claire Swazey]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

what do you mean who ever heard of a religion with a pricelist?

the pricelist for indulgences was a primary feature of martin luther's discontent

ummm...

i also seem to vaguely recall something about d'nazz and some money changers in a temple

CoS sells services, training and auditing

i got no problem with that per se, it's when some reg gets hold of a newly widowed old woman and tells her she needs $45,000 worth of "grief counseling" and finds out she owns her home free and clear and goes after that. her kids found out, thank god, put the kibosh to it and posted the story on the web

but it's OK to charge for services

I've heard the argument about churches/religions not charging for services before, and I tended to dismiss it, in the past. And I do get what you're saying- there is a precedent.

But let me go into debate mode. Yes, they did sell indulgences but they had no business doing that. It's not churchly in the way churches are supposed to be.

Now, as far as charging for services, per se, goes. Sure, as a self help thing- why not.

But over the years my views have changed a bit. So when other critics say "Geez, a religion charging for enlightenment? REALLY?" I get it.

So I suggest that the problem is that Scn tries and has for years tried to be too many things to too many people. It's a church, it's pandenominational, it's a self help thing, it's an applied religious philosophy.

I honestly believe Hubbard did that because he felt this way he could appeal to as many people as possible. He wanted lots of members. They still want lots of members. Then, once they get them, they fuck them over.

CofS even has its own cross. Jeez, Hubbard didn't even like Christianity. He was doing this to get Christians in the door and into the reges' office.

I know lots of new age people who charge for what they do. Ok, that's fine. Mostly. (some are frauds but I think you can get that with established venues, too. Bad apples in every bunch.) But, you know, a church charging for enlightenment (or whatever you want to call it) that is weird.

I like to think that I can have a connection to The Divine/Spirit/Theta/whatever without paying for it. Yet, OTOH, if someone wants to charge me for counselling or a course, I don't care.

So I think it should have stayed a grass roots self help thing.

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

I don't see what your response I quoted (above) has anything whatsoever to do with my comment you're responding to. :confused2:

Perhaps you can clarify this?




I've met many that were quite well at it. And it didn't require any scientology "tech" or any other "tech". Loving others doesn't require "tech".





How don't see how any of this stuff supports your position in any way.

Well we will have to agree to disagree then. As I feel that your implication that a Christian needs Scientology "tech" so he can love his neighbor is ludicrous blather.

i did not imply a christian needs tech to love and i'm at a loss for how that can be inferred when it is directly stated dmsmh is not on the required reading list

and...

i was pointing out there have been some memorable failures of Xian love...

when the thirty years war began in 1618 germany had a population of 13 million, when the treaty of westphalia was signed in 1648 there were 5 million

my position is simply the study and practice of auditing is OK for a christian

we can agree to disagree just fine, now then, do you disagree with that precise statement?

 

[Commander Birdsong]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

ahh...

thank god!

at last a real christian has showed up to slap me around wearing the set of brass knuckles sister blister awarded her for virginal excelence at our lady of perpetual agony grammar school

love ya darlin'

BIG time

i'm hangin' in with the simplicities of scipture and tekk

d'nazz directs i should love my neighbor as i love myself and tekk makes possible to do that in practical fashion

great links! very important and valuable stuff!

hi anonymary!

sorry i ruffled your feathers with this, i beleve you are aware of m great personal afection for you

i'm a christian out of the protestant tradition but i'm a generic christian and vey much a universalist. catholics are probably a greater % of my friends than % of enral population, indeed my lifelong best pal was raised catholic and the mothe of my son a refugee from a convent.

but...

the history of brutality in RCC is voluminous

to say the least

i have a story to tell and this thread a good place for it and you a good person to tell it to...

but it is no sort of Xmas story

later...

luv ya

CB

 

[phenomanon]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

the answer to your question is
NO
you cannot be any "religion" other than a Scientologist.

phenom

 

[SweetnessandLight]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

Scientology and the Cult of COS is actually Anti-Christ and Anti-Christian!

From the groundbreaking 1990 L.A. Times series of articles on Scientology by Times Staff Writers Joel Sappell and Robert W. Welkos, June 24, 1990:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-scientologysidea062490,0,6116838.story

"What is Scientology?


"The painful experiences are called "engrams." Hubbard said some happen by accident -- from ancient planetary wars, for example -- while others are intentionally inflicted by other thetans who have gone bad and want power. In Scientology, these engrams are called "implants."

According to Hubbard, the bad thetans through the eons have electronically implanted other thetans with information intended to confuse them and make them forget the powers they inherently possess -- kind of a brainwashing procedure.

While Hubbard was not always precise about the origins of the implants, he was very clear about the impact.

"Implants," Hubbard said, "result in all varieties of illness, apathy, degradation, neurosis and insanity and are the principal cause of these in man."

Hubbard identified numerous implants that he said have occurred through the ages and that are addressed during Scientology courses aimed at neutralizing their harmful effects.

Hubbard maintained, for example, that the concept of a Christian heaven is the product of two implants dating back more than 43 trillion years. Heaven, he said, is a "false dream" and a "very painful lie" intended to direct thetans toward a non-existent goal and convince them they have only one life.

In reality, Hubbard said, there is no heaven and there was no Christ.

"The (implanted) symbol of a crucified Christ is very apt indeed," Hubbard said. "It's the symbol of a thetan betrayed."

 

[Claire Swazey]

Re: Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview

I'd say the belief in past lives doesn't fit in really well with conventional Christianity.

But at the end of the day, only the individual can decide how he or she wants to shape his or her own personal ideology.

Belief does not always fully correspond with logic. Nor, IMO, does it have to.