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Ex-member of the CoS- Brian Cox

2briancox said:
I did mine in Champaign IL only after receiving a full physical and the doctor said I shouldn't have to be seen again during. My mom did hers also in the same area, though she had to be checked up on a few labs weekly. The thing is, my mom had a very insignificant drug history. The FreeZone CS I've talked to has said it really wasn't intended for everyone. Only those with significant drug history.

Anyway, Champaign, IL doesn't have any Scientology doctors.
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How many people have problems? How many people have ARCX's that effect their lives from going forward? How many people have ser facs? How many people have O/W's? How many people have you'd see in the real world having all these things?

How many people are achieving their goals in life?

In my view, the bridge is one total evaluation. While yes the auditor doesn't evaluate for you.

Is there a true Clear or OT?

I have been around many that are stated clears and OT's per the hubbard tech, but I don't see it. In real life action and first hand observation.

Have you seen it, anybody that is a clear or ot?

I'm not talking about having wins or getting better in life from the application of the scientology auditing to you.
 
Gib said:
How many people have problems? How many people have ARCX's that effect their lives from going forward? How many people have ser facs? How many people have O/W's? How many people have you'd see in the real world having all these things?

How many people are achieving their goals in life?

In my view, the bridge is one total evaluation. While yes the auditor doesn't evaluate for you.

Is there a true Clear or OT?

I have been around many that are stated clears and OT's per the hubbard tech, but I don't see it. In real life action and first hand observation.

Have you seen it, anybody that is a clear or ot?

I'm not talking about having wins or getting better in life from the application of the scientology auditing to you.
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I don't understand exactly. Are you saying because the bridge exists that it's evaluating people? But personally I've never known anyone to not have ows, arcxs or service facsimiles or problems communicating at some level or another.

You don't have to accept the Bridge. That would be a very easy way to escape it's evaluation if that is how you see it.

Also, it's widely accepted in the FZ that Ron oversold the states of Clear and OT. You'll probably still wear glasses and have colds at Clear. But there are precise case qualifications, as I understand it.

And as a matter of opinion, yeah I've met people definitely seem to represent Clear and OT phenomenon to me.
 
2briancox said:
I did mine in Champaign IL only after receiving a full physical and the doctor said I shouldn't have to be seen again during. My mom did hers also in the same area, though she had to be checked up on a few labs weekly. The thing is, my mom had a very insignificant drug history. The FreeZone CS I've talked to has said it really wasn't intended for everyone. Only those with significant drug history.

Anyway, Champaign, IL doesn't have any Scientology doctors.
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Thanks. What did the doctor think of the vitamins, oil, niacin?
 
2briancox said:
I don't understand exactly. Are you saying because the bridge exists that it's evaluating people? But personally I've never known anyone to not have ows, arcxs or service facsimiles or problems communicating at some level or another.

You don't have to accept the Bridge. That would be a very easy way to escape it's evaluation if that is how you see it.

Also, it's widely accepted in the FZ that Ron oversold the states of Clear and OT. You'll probably still wear glasses and have colds at Clear. But there are precise case qualifications, as I understand it.

And as a matter of opinion, yeah I've met people definitely seem to represent Clear and OT phenomenon to me.
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What do you end up with when you reassess everything that comes under the term "oversold". You have mentioned needing glasses and having colds, so there must be many many things claimed in DMSMH that might be expected by a person going Clear that are not realistic, or even obtainable at all. So how long is that piece of string and when you have finished pulling it, what exactly are you left with for the precise case qualifications? You have used the word "precise", and I think it's good to be precise. What exactly has beeen attained, reached, or lost when one decides or someone else decides that one is "Clear".
 
My bold below, and this quote is about the purif.

2briancox said:
I did mine in Champaign IL only after receiving a full physical and the doctor said I shouldn't have to be seen again during. My mom did hers also in the same area, though she had to be checked up on a few labs weekly. The thing is, my mom had a very insignificant drug history. The FreeZone CS I've talked to has said it really wasn't intended for everyone. Only those with significant drug history.
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lol. That's funny. But back in my day it was a relatively cheap scn service. (though the most expensive to deliver, couldn't get the power, water and vitamin companies to work for free ya know) It was sold to everyone.

I've a question. I've not given the FZ much thought. I'm curious. Can you name any policies they have chucked? Like is the FSM idea still alive and well?

What about KSW or Tech degrades? Do you guy's use the new re-written books? Or the old ones.

Do you guy's believe your helping save the planet one person at a time? Thus the saving of it being the underlying purpose.

And I mean it, not trying to be a smart ass.
 
2briancox said:
I don't understand exactly. Are you saying because the bridge exists that it's evaluating people? But personally I've never known anyone to not have ows, arcxs or service facsimiles or problems communicating at some level or another.

You don't have to accept the Bridge. That would be a very easy way to escape it's evaluation if that is how you see it.

Also, it's widely accepted in the FZ that Ron oversold the states of Clear and OT. You'll probably still wear glasses and have colds at Clear. But there are precise case qualifications, as I understand it.

And as a matter of opinion, yeah I've met people definitely seem to represent Clear and OT phenomenon to me.
Click to expand...

In your opinion, how does someone seem to represent Clear and OT phenomenon?

This is a sincere question. I'm not going to invalidate whatever your answer is. I truly want to know. If you are hesitant to answer in the open then feel free to PM me.
 
:welcome2: to ESMB 2briancox. It's fantastic you've found you way out of the church. When I arrived here, I had been declared 9 years earlier, DM was this evil dude and hubbard's tech was to be revered. I ask you to explore threads, ask questions, make friends here, not all is what hubbard seemed, nor scientology or it's so called tech. Congratulations for making this far!
 
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2briancox said:
I don't understand exactly. Are you saying because the bridge exists that it's evaluating people? But personally I've never known anyone to not have ows, arcxs or service facsimiles or problems communicating at some level or another.

You don't have to accept the Bridge. That would be a very easy way to escape it's evaluation if that is how you see it.

Also, it's widely accepted in the FZ that Ron oversold the states of Clear and OT. You'll probably still wear glasses and have colds at Clear. But there are precise case qualifications, as I understand it.

And as a matter of opinion, yeah I've met people definitely seem to represent Clear and OT phenomenon to me.
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I'm saying the bridge does not exist. Show me a clear or OT as defined by hubbard's bridge, or hubbards definitions.
 
2briancox said:
. . . <snip> . . . Given that and the disgracefully low standard of what constituted "proof" in the field, I realized I wasn't getting anywhere in actually understanding anything. Plus, it was very hard to ignore the fact that many of my professors were people who ... well they weren't the kinds of people that had a large number of friends. They weren't cheerful. I couldn't even call them polite. But I could very easily judge that they were the sorts of people who had the smallest amount of understanding of people. But they did their studies and they made conclusions and got published. I just shook my head. And I did what I did at Flag ... I walked away. I eventually did what I wish I'd have done from the beginning. I became a Mechanical Engineer, where I KNOW when something is true. So I am a man who does appreciate the value of a real science.

Anyway, after that I found Scientology, yeah, I agreed with much of their anti-psych stand . . . <snip> . . .
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How would you compare Scientology's "standard of proof" with that of academia?
 
Fun thread!

The bottom line for me is; having done the CofS Bridge, I don't regret having done it.

I DO regret having been unaware of the actual costs in terms of real human suffering amongst the Staff and SO Crew who were delivering that Bridge.

If those factors were eliminated (as they undoubtedly are in the Freezone) I can't really see why anyone would have a problem with the path Brian chooses for himself.

It's a free world (kinda) after all.

Just an opinion.
 
Panda Termint said:
Fun thread!

The bottom line for me is; having done the CofS Bridge, I don't regret having done it.

-snip-
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Would you recommend that others do the OT levels?

Knowing what you now know, now, and you had it to do over again, would you do the OT levels outside the CofS?

Would you recommended that a person examine the materials of the OT levels, and related information, away from Scientology and Scientologists, prior to being in-study on the advanced courses and in-session on the OT levels, so as to have time to consider what he's about to open wide his mind to?
 
Lol, this shit never gets old, right? :)

If a person really wanted to do find out for themselves what the Upper Levels were all about, I'd do exactly what I've already done about half a dozen times since I ceased being a scientologist ie. wished the person "Good Luck" and offered my help should anything go awry.

Do you find that to be an unreasonable approach?
 
All I know is if I was Brian I would really not be enjoying this interrogation, no matter how well meaning we all are. He has eyes to read, and a mind to think, and a will to make choices. They are his to make. All of us have the right to make our own spiritual decisions no matter how ridiculous or dangerous others think they may be. In any case, I'm sure he has gotten the message that many think he's doing a foolish thing. I think it's sad that he has been feeling attacked just because he was honest about his own story.
 
This is not an attack. It is information, and not just for Brian but for anyone who may be lurking. Depicting it as an "attack" is a way of shutting down the free flow of information.​


Here's a sampling of a typical implant description from OT 2, plus a smattering of introductory material by Hubbard. Tech is in red.:


The first (earliest) bit of the bank is not an item but a light. It appears to the left front of the face, some distance away (Look ahead and to the left a bit and you'll spot it.)

It is the source of unconsciousness and produces it when contacted. There is a light before each run...

When you spot a light or object or combination of objects, you should get a read on the needle.

You repeat verbal items aloud...

The objects - hollow and solid...

The objects appear about an arms length away...

They move...

Explosion...

Never proceed past a non-reading item. To do so can be very deadly...

....

Many persons experience unreality at the start of [implant] GPM running; this leaves when you see the meter reads.

....

They are implant incidents...

Trillion, 20,095.

Hot Cold.

This is a pole with a split in it. The back split is hot, the front is cold. Two temperatures. Duration is 1 [and] 1/8th seconds...

Dance Mob.

Trillions, 18,992.

This duration is 7/8 of a second. There is a pole that pulls one in. One is caught in the pole.


And a little more:

230 trillions.

This seeks to install...

Implanter X... Target X, etc. [Shows diagram of implant], etc.


A typical reaction to running these materials is amazement at having contacted previously inaccessible incidents from ages ago, and delight at having expected (and hoped for) e-meter responses.

Those without the expected e-meter responses usually respond with dread and upset at their failure.

Their "cases" must be reviewed, and actions taken to "set" them "up" them for the "level."

It's an impressive P.T. Barnumesque ride.

OT3Interference.jpg


And when the ride is over, the person is pretty much the same as he was before, but with an overlay of Hubbardian significance that sees the world as a place of dramatizing implants and Body Thetan infestation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVqN...um.exscn.net/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=6518

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwDKg5K3in8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6P4YV6CfI0

bodythetans.jpg


HubbardOT3.gif



Grade Chart of the world's largest and most successful outside the CofS Scientology group:

Image3.gif


Also from the same group:

exopolZJ02_01.jpg



The bottom two are included as the Center where Brian is receiving his auditing (and future C/Sing) is associated with Rey Robles, who is associated with this group.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYGFOevVmHQ
 
Veda said:
This is not an attack. It is information, and not just for Brian but for anyone who may be lurking. Depicting it as an "attack" is a way of shutting the free flow of information.​



Here's a sampling of a typical implant description from OT 2, plus a smattering of introductory material by Hubbard. Tech is in red.:


The first (earliest) bit of the bank is not an item but a light. It appears to the left front of the face, some distance away (Look ahead and to the left a bit and you'll spot it.)

It is the source of unconsciousness and produces it when contacted. There is a light before each run...

When you spot a light or object or combination of objects, you should get a read on the needle.

You repeat verbal items aloud...

The objects - hollow and solid...

The objects appear about an arms length away...

They move...

Explosion...

Never proceed past a non-reading item. To do so can be very deadly...

....

Many persons experience unreality at the start of [implant] GPM running; this leaves when you see the meter reads.

....

They are implant incidents...

Trillion, 20,095.

Hot Cold.

This is a pole with a split in it. The back split is hot, the front is cold. Two temperatures. Duration is 1 [and] 1/8th seconds...

Dance Mob.

Trillions, 18,992.

This duration is 7/8 of a second. There is a pole that pulls one in. One is caught in the pole.


And a little more:

230 trillions.

This seeks to install...

Implanter X... Target X, etc. [Shows diagram of implant], etc.


A typical reaction to running these materials is amazement at having contacted previously inaccessible incidents from ages ago, and delight at having expected (and hoped for) e-meter responses.

Those without the expected e-meter responses usually respond with dread and upset at their failure.

Their "cases" must be reviewed, and actions taken to "set" them "up" them for the "level."

It's an impressive P.T. Barnumesque ride.

OT3Interference.jpg


And when the ride is over, the person is pretty much the same as he was before, but with an overlay of Hubbardian significance that sees the world as a place of dramatizing implants and Body Thetan infestation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVqN...um.exscn.net/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=6518

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwDKg5K3in8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6P4YV6CfI0

bodythetans.jpg


HubbardOT3.gif



Grade Chart of the world's largest and most successful outside the CofS Scientology group:

Image3.gif


Also from the same group:

exopolZJ02_01.jpg


The bottom two are included as the Center where Brian is receiving his auditing (and future C/Sing) is associated with Rey Robles, who is associated with this group.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYGFOevVmHQ
Click to expand...

Driving somebody away is actually the best way of shutting the free flow of information - forever.
 
Purple Rain said:
Driving somebody away is actually the best way of shutting the free flow of information - forever.
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Nonsense.

The idea is to convey information before the person begins the OT levels.

I suggest that you consult accounts on ESMB. Some people take years to recover from the effects of having opened wide their minds to this stuff, some never do recover.
 
Veda said:
Nonsense.

The idea is to convey information before the person begins the OT levels.

I suggest that you consult accounts on ESMB. Some people take years to recover from the effects of having opened wide their minds to this stuff, some never do recover.
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I know you mean well, Veda. Truly I do.
 
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