A DECLARE..SHATTERED CHILDREN..DISCONNECTION

[Illegal Alien]

My Ex wife

OK. Now let me answer by area:

1. I never told Estefania to do anything. I would never get my kids to do something "for me" I think you know I have the guts to confront anything or anybody myself. This is the last time I take up this subject. If you want to believe or not its up to you.

2. The kids have not been told anything "bad" about you.

3. She is not in agreement with what you are doing and she feels attacked personally so that you will have to handle that since you are the one doing it.

4. Thank you for not opposing to our Scn path.

5. You coming here is to see the kids and not my family. You will probably will not see my family at all so don't worry about that.

6. I didn't say that because of something that I was shown I didn't trust you.
Even if I would trust you as a father I do not trust Cassandra because I don't know her and I do not trust for sure anybody else you are in contact with and you know what I am talking about.

Fransyl

 

[Illegal Alien]

My response

Well we seem to have a problem on our hands.

You were totally okay 3 weeks ago on sending the kids and now you are not.
You told me that you had paid for the airtickets already quoting flight numbers QF16 and QF15.

What changed? The Church showed you a document about me that is written according to Church policy basically slandering me and forcing disconnection or else...... Buy the Churches own policy I should have been notified and given a copy but in your words it could be a media issue.MMMMMM...............

It is clear to me that your first response saying that you were incorrect and that with the kids being minors you can not legally enforce the Churches policy of disconnection is all false and merely a PR attempt by the Church to prevent a legal issue.

Well I suppose its yours and the Churches disclaimer on this issue.

But lets take a look at it.

IN REALTY THE POLICY OF DISCONNECTION IS STILL BEING ENFORCED.

There is no point at the moment in you and I throwing words at each other.

The creater of this situation by its own written policies is Scientology.

Remember even Scientology supposedly supports freedom of speech and the rights of all individuals to choose.

 

[robert]

sorry for your loss

I feel for you sir. This is the exact same reason why i keep anonymous. I have family in COS and I don't want to risk them having to disconnect from me.

 

[greebly]

You are doing your best to keep it civil Adrian.

Here is a question you could ask your children.

"If we lived on a different planet where there were no worldly problems and I was your dad and mum was mum, Would you guys still want come on a trip to see me?"

The answer may still be the same. But ask the question when you talk to them about other things, like school or a TV programme, movie and they are relaxed if that is possible at the moment.

Change any of the wordings or the environments that relate best to your family or when talking about good times together before the SPdeclare happened, whatever you feel is best.

If they yes then they have made clear unhindered choice of their own!
And nobody should change that!

Good luck Dad, love will conquer eventually:wink2:

 

[Kha Khan]

The disconnection letter from a comment at Marty's blog:

mina bobi // May 27, 2010 at 7:55 pm | Reply

This does not have to do with the IAS subject, but I ran across this email which proves that the Church does not care about families and keep separating them with the disconnection policy.
Check this out. The original email is in Spanish but the English version of it follows it.

Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 17:19:08 -0700

Subject: Fw: Hola a todos

—– Forwarded Message —-
From: marina v
To: ADRIAN KELSEY ; dany_ruizgo[at]hotmail.com
Cc: pagsarefacc[at]prodigy.net.mx; cgonzalez[at]grupodabsa.com.mx; celsogv[at]gmail.com; debbiesalame[at]yahoo.com.mx; diegosantosi[at]hotmail.com; emontero.focus[at]grupodabsa.com.mx; peramadero2003[at]yahoo.com; excalibur88008[at]hotmail.com; feli8008[at]aol.com; gmendoza[at]pielesfamosa.com.mx; gigi12[at]earthlink.net; isabelolivares22[at]hotmail.com; jesuschaconf[at]hotmail.com; elmegaot[at]hotmail.com; jribarguchi[at]msn.com; corriedutko[at]aol.com; lramirez.focus[at]grupodabsa.com.mx; mar.frleongto[at]gmail.com; mj_leavitt[at]yahoo.com; osvaldo_schely[at]prodigy.net.mx; pilarg[at]hotmail.com

Sent: Wed, May 26, 2010 8:53:06 AM

Subject: Re: Hola a todos

Querido Adrian,

Como Cienciologa te exijo que no estes en comunicacion con ningun Cienciologo hasta que manejes tu condicion.

Tu linea por politica es el International Justice Chief.

Utiliza SOLO esa linea y corta tu comunicacion hasta que tengas ok, para comunicarte con el resto del grupo.

Copio a todos los cienciologos en este email, pues Adrian Kelsey esta Declarado Supresivo.

Marina Simon

Dear Adrian,

As a Scientologist I DEMAND that you do not be in communication with any Scientologist until you handle your condition.

Per policy, your line is the International Justice Chief.

Use ONLY this line, and otherwise cut your communication until you have ok to communicate with the rest of the group.

In this email I am informing all Scientologists because Adrian Kelsey is declared a Supressive Person.

Marina Simon

From: ADRIAN KELSEY
To: dany_ruizgo[at]hotmail.com
Cc: pagsarefacc[at]prodigy.net.mx; cgonzalez[at]grupodabsa.com.mx; celsogv[at]gmail.com; debbiesalame[at]yahoo.com.mx; diegosantosi[at]hotmail.com; emontero.focus[at]grupodabsa.com.mx; peramadero2003[at]yahoo.com; excalibur88008[at]hotmail.com; feli8008[at]aol.com; gmendoza[at]pielesfamosa.com.mx; gigi12[at]earthlink.net; isabelolivares22[at]hotmail.com; jesuschaconf[at]hotmail.com; elmegaot[at]hotmail.com; jribarguchi[at]msn.com; corriedutko[at]aol.com; lramirez.focus[at]grupodabsa.com.mx; mar.frleongto[at]gmail.com; marina_villarreal1[at]yahoo.com; mj_leavitt[at]yahoo.com; osvaldo_schely[at]prodigy.net.mx; pilarg[at]hotmail.com

Sent: Tue, May 25, 2010 8:13:04 PM

Subject: Hola a todos

No say si todos aqui mi conocen pero para los que no.
Soy Adrian Kelsey soy el EX esposo de Fransyl Marmolejo hijo de OTVII Francisco Marmolejo.
Espero que ja mi ubican y que tambien perdona mi espanol por que ya saben que no es mi primer idioma.
Hable con mi hija Estefania de 13 anos el sabado y estaba llorando.
Para no hacer este correo largo voy hacer muy directo.
Mi hija estaba llorando por que ya no puede tener contacto conmigo. Lo pregunto porque, y mi dijo que estoy declarado suppresivo. Yo le dijo que yo no tengo ese escrito y que no sepa nada de eso.
Hablando con Fransyl mi dijo que cuando estaba en Flag lo ensenllaron mi SP declare.
No hay hecho nada para romper el camino de Cienciologia para mi hija o Fransyl y bueno seguro ustedes van a escuchar algo mas.
Lo que si hay hecho es hablar en contra de un incidente con mi primer hijo antes de que case con Fransyl y el abuso que el recibe.
No hable en contra de la Tech pero a lo que paso con mi hijo.
Lo unico que hase eso es meter responsibilidad se algo malo paso y nadia habla de eso pues eso es muy mal.
Y mi enojo mucho con Cienciologia por todo la gente que estaban aclarado pagaron por eso y despues Cienciologia dijo que perdon pero ne es tienes que pagar otra ves.
Para mi la tecnologia siempre era 100% como es possible que eso paso.
No es impotante que meto en todo los detalles y hay mucho en los dos lados del historia.
Pero a mi no mi importa no es perdonable que hace que una ninja de 13 anos tiene que manejar algo tan duro que decir a su Papi que nunca habla.hasta que vuelve a Cienciologia.
La batalla epenas comienza.
Gracias por tu tiempo

Adrian Kelsey

I don’t know if everybody knows me. For those who don’t know me, I am Adrian Kesley, ex-husband of Fransyl Marmolejo, daughter of OT VIII Francisco Marmolejo. I hope that you all remember me and that you also forgive me for my poor Spanish but Spanish is not my mother language.

I spoke to my thirteen-year old daughter Estefania last Saturday and she was crying. For purposes of not lengthening this email I will be very straight forward on what went on while on the phone.

My daughter was crying because she can no longer talk to me. I asked her why, and she said that it was because I was declared a suppressive person. I told her that I don’t have anything in writing and that I was not aware of it either.

Then, while being on the phone with Fransyl she told me that when she was at Flag she was shown my SP declare. I haven’t done anything to prevent my daughter nor Fransyl to practice Scientology but I am going to tell you something that I did do. I spoke out against an incident that my older son went through and the abuses he is getting. I didn’t speak out against the Tech, only against this specific abuse. I only tried to make them take responsibility for this incident but they don’t to talk about it because it is a very bad one. With Scientology, I am mad at the fact that you had to pay to go Clear and now that things were revised and some Clears are no longer Clear, they have to pay again. For me the Tech was 100% standard so how is it possible that it wasn’t. I don’t want to go into all of the details as each one has a different side of the story. What is important to me is that I cannot forgive the fact that a thirteen-year old girl is being put through this painful situation and is being made to disconnect from her father.

The battle has just begun.

Thank you for your time.

Adrian Kesley

(End of email)

Sorry for the translation but Spanish nor English are my first languages.

/

The connecting ESMB post:

Illegal Alien

My response to the above.
Okay

"Her decision" will have to disagree with that, but okay.

As I have said a number of times I have never blocked her Scio path or yours or put shit on hers or your lines.I have been out of Scio for almost 2 years now.

I suppose it works the same you will have a serious problem with me if I speak badly to THEM about Scio and I will have a serious problem with you and Scio should I feel that AT ANY TIME from now on they are applying the Scio policy of disconnection or even being recruited for that manner.

Now that that is all cleared up.
Cassandra and I have activities planned for them here in Aussi we have our life set up work wise for their visit.
I could go to Mexico but here is the thing. This is about me spending some quality time with my kids.
Now to be in Leon labeled an SP and with all due respect being treated by you and your family in a "good roads fair weather" manner which lets be honest is insincere as it does not portray real feelings, I will know it is so and so will you and so will the kids. This is not going to create a memorable visit for the kids. Its a 3 week visit.
The fact that you were okay with them coming to visit me in Australia and now are not I do not know how to feel about that.
There needs to be a mutual trust here at the end of the day this is about our kids not Scio and Scio needs to be removed from the father daughter and son relationship.
Unfortunately some damage has already been done to my relationship and it will take work to repair this.

This is not something only I need to handle with her after all you and I could have spoken about this whole thing first before you put our daughter through tears and making her confront me with something I had no idea existed, I assume it was tacticle on your behalf thinking I would listen to her more than you. She was in fact speaking on behalf of your whole family as disconnection does not only apply to her. This is not just an issue with our daughter, she was however used as the spokes person for all.

But anyway that’s all over.

You need to talk to her just as much as I do and tell her it’s all okay.

I still want them to visit Australia.

You said because of the SP Declare shown to you by Scio, that you no longer trust me.

If they came to visit do you really think I would be that stupid to talk them out of Scio or not send them back, lets be honest here an action like that would benefit Scio as it would prove Scio right about me and that is not going to happen and not to mention this is Australia not Mexico were immigration is well, casual should I say.
What has just occured needs to be fully restored so the kids are back to how they were before. Me visiting Leon will not do this because they will know why this is happening.


If they came out here and at the end realize that all is good all went well all the possible things that they thought or had been told may happen and how to deal with it did not happen, the father daughter and son bond would be fully restored and that is how I would like it.
I want that smile back on both their faces and that they have the piece of mind that I am their father and love them unconditionally and that mostly they do not feel forced to react or behave in a certain way with regards to me.

Regards
Adrian Kelsey

/

WWP Thread: [Marty's place]: New disconnection letter

WWP Thread: A DECLARE..SHATTERED CHILDREN..DISCONNECTION

/

 

[Illegal Alien]

Thanks for posting that here

Your translation was very good.

 

[wiseman_of_the_watchtower]

And here I am with my dad disconnected from me. You know, I don't know which is worse, kids disconnecting from parents, or parents disconnecting from their children.

But there's hope for you, Adrien: Your daughter was crying, which shows that she still cares about you.

When I moved out of my dad's place last month, he didn't seem upset. In fact, he didn't say a single word. That hurts.

-WMWT

 

[greebly]

I really feel for all involved it's truly sad when it has to come this kind public show for things to be resolved.

Still sickening and perhaps people will truly see why all these websites still exist and there are still people outside protesting everyday.

Just a reminder of the date:

It is 2010!

Quite alot of years have gone by since the 1950s and the world has changed a fair bit to my knowledge.

I wonder what word will be used in any PR and media reports?
Let me guess

CHOICE

 

[Lurker5]

Oh Crap, Wiseman

And here I am with my dad disconnected from me. You know, I don't know which is worse, kids disconnecting from parents, or parents disconnecting from their children.

But there's hope for you, Adrien: Your daughter was crying, which shows that she still cares about you.

When I moved out of my dad's place last month, he didn't seem upset. In fact, he didn't say a single word. That hurts.

-WMWT

Oh Carp, Wiseman, so sorry. Yes, that would hurt. But it is not over and done yet. The battle wages on. Keep up the spirit. ESMB can be your surrogate family - or now - until your dad wakes up, until the world does.

 

[Whitedove]

And here I am with my dad disconnected from me. You know, I don't know which is worse, kids disconnecting from parents, or parents disconnecting from their children.

But there's hope for you, Adrien: Your daughter was crying, which shows that she still cares about you.

When I moved out of my dad's place last month, he didn't seem upset. In fact, he didn't say a single word. That hurts.

-WMWT

OMFG! I just dont get that one.

How can a parent walk away from his/her own child is beyond my reality!

I am soooo sorry you are going through this. I can only imagine how that feels like. For a parent having your child taken away is like a part of you is ripped apart but for a child to have his parent walk away from him/her must be a feeling of abandonment I cant phantom.

But that is what cults does to people. If you want to understand what is happening with your dad I suggest you go on Steve Hassan website. He is amazing to help understand how someone get trapped in a cult mentally.

Here is the link.

http://www.freedomofmind.com/

Hang in there!
Whitedove

 

[JohnnyRUClear]

I still want them to visit Australia.

You said because of the SP Declare shown to you by Scio, that you no longer trust me.

If they came to visit do you really think I would be that stupid to talk them out of Scio or not send them back, lets be honest here an action like that would benefit Scio as it would prove Scio right about me and that is not going to happen and not to mention this is Australia not Mexico were immigration is well, casual should I say.
What has just occured needs to be fully restored so the kids are back to how they were before. Me visiting Leon will not do this because they will know why this is happening.


If they came out here and at the end realize that all is good all went well all the possible things that they thought or had been told may happen and how to deal with it did not happen, the father daughter and son bond would be fully restored and that is how I would like it.
I want that smile back on both their faces and that they have the piece of mind that I am their father and love them unconditionally and that mostly they do not feel forced to react or behave in a certain way with regards to me.

Regards
Adrian Kelsey

Gosh, you are so reasonable. Who could object to that??

I feel for you sir. This is the exact same reason why i keep anonymous. I have family in COS and I don't want to risk them having to disconnect from me.

And this ^^^^ is the reason I keep on protesting and helping bring the walls down -- and they are coming down, sooner or sooner.

What Hubbard and Miscavige have rent asunder, let any man rejoin.

 

[Type4_PTS]

Great response from you IA......hopefully they come to their senses and help repair the damage between you and your kids they caused.

 

[Type4_PTS]

You know, I don't know which is worse, kids disconnecting from parents, or parents disconnecting from their children.

Sorry about this Wiseman, but there IS hope that the relationship with your Dad with get fixed. I damaged the relationship with my father when I was in by running the "good roads, good weather" program on him but later after I left Scn I dramatically improved the relationship with him. At some point he'll hopefully realize the insanity of the policy he was following, especially after the CoS is dissolved.

 

[JinLing]

im very sorry. im afraid of a similar sit myself in the future. i HATE to read this. Its so fucking wrong. kids shouldnt have to go through a choiche like that. Its abuse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AnonyMary]

im very sorry. im afraid of a similar sit myself in the future. i HATE to read this. Its so fucking wrong. kids shouldnt have to go through a choiche like that. Its abuse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, it is wrong and it is abuse. Bit don't be afraid for your situation, please. Arm yourself with knowledge of your legal rights. Then make a plan. Before any fireworks happen. Then you can be in control of your own choices.

Best wishes,

Mary McConnell

 

[Illegal Alien]

Dealing with disconnection..how?

Now that some time has passed since this disconnection I find it really hard to settle down and find a way to just deal with it.

To put it simply there are compromises everywhere in this and this is what drives my uncertainty as to my actions.

We are still in contact (if you can call it that) via e-mail but the most I get out of my daughter is maybe a 4 word e-mail, at times all I get is an “OK” response, there is NO MORE GENUINE interaction.

Scientology has done a good job at destroying that.

Now make no mistake she is in a VERY Scientology family so even though the line has not been totally cut (due only to legal reasons for them being minors) when she turns 18 I believe disconnection will be enforced to the maximum, I am sure of this as I know the family well and of course I live thousands of miles away which does not help either.

The biggest problem for me is I see this from the viewpoint of “Scientology disconnection tech working” which pisses me off to think it has this effect on me.

When perhaps I should look at it from what I need to do to maintain my relationship with my daughter; which plays into what pisses me off; do you see where I am heading with this.
To stay in touch with my daughter to any degree I really have to tow the line when it comes to Scio. Not block her from doing it. Never say anything negative about it to her and basically give her my full support or I will loose her.
That is the vindictive Scio policy working.

Or I could lay it on the line with her and do what I can to hinder her bridge progress she is only 12. That way I for sure will loose any and all contact.
Bearing in mind I feel I will loose that contact anyway when she is 18.
As her father do I not have the obligation to protect her from potentially harmful groups.
Is it noble of me to possible destroy my relationship with her by hindering her bridge progress to protect her or should I just let her walk through it on her own and see what happens.:confused2:
Tip toeing around this makes me very uneasy.
Until she is 18 I could greatly hinder her progress, not all of it but a lot.
Sure she turns 18 and just goes flat out in Scio anyway and I will be out of the picture.

Lets assume disconnection policy or threat of it did not exist, at all. No danger of loosing a father daughter bond.
What would you do in this instance?
I would say you would show her the truth to Scientology and get her to look and get her out.
I say the only reason I am not doing this is because of Scientology policy and that is NOT GOOD.

My life is not run by Scio policy.

Am I looking at this all wrong?

 

[Pliny Younger]

My heart goes out to you.

I don't know how to tell you to proceed. However you should probably hedge your bet by setting up a secondary way for her to get in touch when she wants to. If your normal line gets cut, at some point she's gonna want to get in touch with you. See if you can get her name as a domain name. Not easy to do but if you can, Set up a web site with your contact info on it. The web part is easy. The domain names' availability is harder. You can always get any domain name and list her name in the site even if you can't get her name as domain. You can slyly put her name on the page the same color as the web background so it can't be seen to the eye. The search engines will see it and add it to their database.

If you choose to boldly go and take the path that ends your line with her, at some point she'll goggle her name and she'll come across this site with your contact info. Even if it gets messy at some point she is going to want to get back in com with you, maybe when she rebels from her mom or gets pissed off at the church.

You are her dad. She'll always have a place for you in her heart.

 

[MrNobody]

Well, I just got off the phone with my 13 year old daughter who was in tears as Scientology was forcing her to never speak to me again due to the fact that I have been out spoken about my negative experiences in Scientology.

I'll spare you guys a long, sad story.
My kid, being around that age, called me and told me that I was a shitty father, and that it doesn't want anything to do with me ever again.

I accepted that, and told it that I'll AWAYS be there, if it ever needed help or support.

3 years later, my kid called me again. I could hear that it was an enforced or otherwise manipulated call. My kid's call was not successful, because I don't like to be instrumentalized. My kid probably didn't like to be instrumentalized either. However, we've been connected to each other ever since.

Time doesn't heal ALL wounds, but it can help. Let your kid know, that you'll be there whenever it needs you, your support or your help.

my €0.02

BTW: My kid will always be an ageless, genderless something around here, until it decides to post here and reveal itself. It is old enough to decide for itself.

 

[Big Nick]

(FCDC 1812) When I was 12 years old I was told to Disconnect from my SP father and I had to call him and tell him or I would be Ex-commutated, not being allowed to commutate to my mother or sisters. My mother made the call and handed me the phone, that was the last cowardly act I would do.
Over 30 years later I still have not forgiven myself, My father forgave me, But I will never forgive those who abuse children. I never forgave my Mother, not even on her death bed.

After I completed the HQS course I could take a week off with my friends. But still could not see my father. I was denied an education, Children in Scientology are in a cult of personally. Each of us take years to catch up if we ever get the nerve to leave all we know, all we were allowed to know.

 

[AnonyMary]

(FCDC 1812) When I was 12 years old I was told to Disconnect from my SP father and I had to call him and tell him or I would be Ex-commutated, not being allowed to commutate to my mother or sisters. My mother made the call and handed me the phone, that was the last cowardly act I would do.
Over 30 years later I still have not forgiven myself, My father forgave me, But I will never forgive those who abuse children. I never forgave my Mother, not even on her death bed.

After I completed the HQS course I could take a week off with my friends. But still could not see my father. I was denied an education, Children in Scientology are in a cult of personally. Each of us take years to catch up if we ever get the nerve to leave all we know, all we were allowed to know.

Thank you for for speaking out about this. Have you visited or posted over at ExScientology Kids Forum? You'll find others who grew up under this kind of stuff.

Who We Are: Ex-Scientology kids is designed, owned, and operated by three young women who grew up in Scientology, and later left the Church. We feel that growing up in the Scientology environment is a unique experience that's almost impossible to comprehend unless you've lived it yourself. For what it's worth, we offer non-judgmental support for those who are still in Scientology, discussion and debate for those who've already left, and a plethora of easy-to-understand references for the curious.

For the record, while the site admins make every effort to be non-judgemental, that doesn't mean we're unbiased. Most of the people that write for this site have had extremely negative experiences in Scientology. Some of us have lost our families due to Scientology's Disconnection Policy, some of us have experienced physical abuse, and some of us were denied a proper education. However, we do welcome pro-Scientology email, comments and forum posts. There's even a "no registration required" forum area where anyone may anonymously post questions, comments and advice.

http://www.exscientologykids.com/