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A DECLARE..SHATTERED CHILDREN..DISCONNECTION

Truth Revealed

Ex
If you want to come and see them I dont have any problem. If I have the time I WILL go with them , you are so you can see them, but they will have to decide If they want to go alone. If THEY do I will respect that. On the "legal cycle" I did it because I do not like to depend on anyone to even be able to get a VISA. I have always been the one who handles anything and I dont want to get your permission to get a passport or anything. That's as far as the legal cycle goes. I dont trust the group I now know you belong to (anonimus) but I dont care. You need to respect me, your kids and our viewpoint. I do not want your stories nor any entheta on our lines. Keep all of that for the people who care. I hope this makes it more clear.

Me
Not really. I authorised the passports and now they are valid until such time as they are adults so you will never have to ask me for that again. Perhaps you would have to ask me for them to join the Sea Org and god forbid should that ever happen.
My kids viewpoints have been so distorted by scientology and yourself and that is very evident in you saying I belong to (anonimus) a line fed to you by scientology with many other lies.

Ex
The passport expires before Rafael is 16. My kids are NEVER joining the SO. They wont even go in staff locally. I have talked to them about that and we have an agreement on that besides they dont want that. They are too well accostumed to having a "rich" life traveling around and will not give that up for a schedule. I can tell you that for sure. Not doing it for that reason. I dont want to depend of anyone in regards to my kids. Adrian I dont need your money its not that "you have not given me money" but it defenitely is that I want full freedom and you "have never been there for them". I dont even know where you live nor do I have a phone number for you!!!!! You found out about this in internet. How come you haven't called? They ARE your kids.

Me
Hey I called you 2 hours ago and you hung up on me remember.
So if you do not need my money you figured you would just sue me on the quiet so you can have control using maintenance as your levergae. Just like that leaving me in a situation of not responding to a legal issue which could cause situations for me visiting in Mex. WOW okay. You have my e-mail, you have a way of contacting me. The same way you did when you contact the embassy here in regards the passports. You know how to get a hold of me.
 
My final say in this regard until.............................

Thinking over this last night, I realized even more how sinister disconnection is.

Locked in this battle with my ex is really futile as it will never resolve I mean never resolve.
The only solution to disconnection is for the inidvidual using it to turn against the church. That is it.
My ex says I can see the kids, that I need to repair my relationship with them.
That is all PR and protecting the church. Lets take a look at that.
This is not complicated and goes in itself against anything scientology teaches about communication or relationships. Infact it goes against what any Counselor would even consider workable in restoring a relationship.
See my kids now would be the most difficult thing. They would not be allowed to address the matter of scientology with me and I would not be able to do that either.
So this massive dark cloud that sits between us is not even allowed to be addressed.
How do you think that visit will go?
HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO RESTORE A RELATINOSHIP UNDER THOSE TERMS?
In the real world outside of scientology I would explain my viewpoint show them why I feel the way I do and what got me to think like that and they would do the same as to why the beleive in scientology. That would be how to go about solving and rebuilding this realionship.
My Ex and scientology would not agree with that.
Every time they went to a church overseas if they had a relaitonship with me and we came to some agreement between us not taking scientology opinion into account, a family agreement. The church would force policy on disconnection as scientology does not allow scientologists to be in contact with people who are outspoken about the church.

SO NO MATTER HOW HARD I WORKED AT RESTORING THIS RELATIONSHIP WITH MY KIDS SCIENTOLOGY POLICY WOULD SMASH IT DOWN AT EVERY CHANCE THEY GET.

In following with scientology policy any time anything bad would happen, maybe they slip at school and hurt themselves or the Mom's business runs into difficulty or the dog dies. Scientolgy policy says look for the "Suppresive Person" that would be me. So even if we were in contact or even if I was 5000 miles away this is a tool scientology would use to show them how having contact with someone outspoken about scientology messes their lives up and they need to DISCONNECT.

The issue about who did what, finances, who's fault it is is ALL just noise, noise, noise.
Scientology is the one that yields the arm of distruction here.
Those caught up in it just attack each other.

THE VILLAIN HERE IS SCIENTOLOGY

Remember this. Those experiencing similar situations MUST remember:

IT IS NOT YOU,OKAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Adrian, you are so right.

This sentence says it all... "I do not want your stories nor any entheta on our lines."

All of us with disconnection issues face the same thing - there seems no way to get around that terror of hearing something bad that will interfere with their own scientology status and get them into trouble.

However you are getting replies, so keep on keeping on! Yours is a very difficult situation indeed and you are a big old scary SP now... keep injecting love into the contacts... truth does eventually have a way of finding the cracks.
 
Re: My final say in this regard until.............................

Illegal Alien said:
Thinking over this last night, I realized even more how sinister disconnection is.

Locked in this battle with my ex is really futile as it will never resolve I mean never resolve.
The only solution to disconnection is for the inidvidual using it to turn against the church. That is it.
My ex says I can see the kids, that I need to repair my relationship with them.
That is all PR and protecting the church. Lets take a look at that.
This is not complicated and goes in itself against anything scientology teaches about communication or relationships. Infact it goes against what any Counselor would even consider workable in restoring a relationship.
See my kids now would be the most difficult thing. They would not be allowed to address the matter of scientology with me and I would not be able to do that either.
So this massive dark cloud that sits between us is not even allowed to be addressed.
How do you think that visit will go?
HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO RESTORE A RELATINOSHIP UNDER THOSE TERMS?
In the real world outside of scientology I would explain my viewpoint show them why I feel the way I do and what got me to think like that and they would do the same as to why the beleive in scientology. That would be how to go about solving and rebuilding this realionship.
My Ex and scientology would not agree with that.
Every time they went to a church overseas if they had a relaitonship with me and we came to some agreement between us not taking scientology opinion into account, a family agreement. The church would force policy on disconnection as scientology does not allow scientologists to be in contact with people who are outspoken about the church.

SO NO MATTER HOW HARD I WORKED AT RESTORING THIS RELATIONSHIP WITH MY KIDS SCIENTOLOGY POLICY WOULD SMASH IT DOWN AT EVERY CHANCE THEY GET.

In following with scientology policy any time anything bad would happen, maybe they slip at school and hurt themselves or the Mom's business runs into difficulty or the dog dies. Scientolgy policy says look for the "Suppresive Person" that would be me. So even if we were in contact or even if I was 5000 miles away this is a tool scientology would use to show them how having contact with someone outspoken about scientology messes their lives up and they need to DISCONNECT.

The issue about who did what, finances, who's fault it is is ALL just noise, noise, noise.
Scientology is the one that yields the arm of distruction here.
Those caught up in it just attack each other.

THE VILLAIN HERE IS SCIENTOLOGY

Remember this. Those experiencing similar situations MUST remember:

IT IS NOT YOU,OKAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Illegal Alien...

Just so you know... I too have suffered from disconnection.

So please do not take what I say lightly. It is from the heart.

In my view, the "Policy" is being used by those for their own ends...

Disconnection is an appalling contradiction for the positive things within the technology - The whole subject is based in "increasing" communication.

Disconnection is a dramatisation that you will have seen in history... Ex-communication, etc.

I cannot justify these actions on behalf of these people as I myself have never disconnected from anyone... and never will... The devastating effects it had on me have left deep scars... But here I am. This is about you though... Not me.

Take it or leave it, but My real advice to you, for what it is worth, is to do what you feel is the right thing to do...

I have children - I can only image the pain, the heartache and the savage emotions that you must be going through.

Just stay true to you... That is really the only person you are answerable to.

I wish you the most positive results and all the best, whatever you choose to do...

Crash
 
Illegal Alien said:
Many months ago when I got out of Scientology I sent an e-mail to my daughter roughly saying the following:

I told her that I am no longer in Scientology and that the reasons for that are my own (her mother is in a very strong Scientology family). I warned her and said that one day Scientology would ask her to choose between me and Scientology.

I said the decision is yours and whatever decision you make will not change how I feel about you, I will always be your Dad and love you more than anything in this world and am always here for you.

Well, I just got off the phone with my 13 year old daughter who was in tears as Scientology was forcing her to never speak to me again due to the fact that I have been out spoken about my negative experiences in Scientology.

This is what happened.

We have been planning a trip for my two kids from my previous marriage to come out to Australia for a visit. I have sent the air ticket money and visa documents and they were supposed to arrive in early July. They have been excited about seeing Australia and we have spoken about all the things we are going to do.

A few days ago I got an e-mail from my daughter saying she needs to speak to me urgently, so I called and was met with one of the most - in fact the most - difficult things I have been through in my life.

She sounded really down on the phone and I will try to cover as accurately as I can what transpired.

She said she has heard that I am attacking Scientology and she asked if that was true. I asked her who had told her and she said her mother, she said I had been declared a suppressive person by the Church. I told her that I am out spoken about my experiences in Scientology and it’s all based on my experiences and that I am telling the truth. She responded by saying that I am attacking Scientology and that she cannot further her studies in Scientology if I continue to speak out and would be forced to sever all contact with me as per Scientology policy.

I asked my daughter to put her Mom on the phone.

My ex-wife said that two weeks while they were at Scientology in Clearwater, Florida, she was shown my Suppressive Person Declare. This Suppressive person Declare in Scientology terms basically means that Scientology labels you in writing that you are the lowest of the low, a criminal and against the wellbeing of all around you, and they show this to people who know you so that they disconnect from you. The result is nobody and I mean nobody who is in Scientology is allowed to have contact with you at all.

I told her that I have not seen such a declare on me and my ex insisted she was shown this document. I said “well then why have I not seen it?”.

She told me it was not being given to me for media reasons.

I got straight to the point with my ex asking her what that meant for the trip that was being planned. She said she is not sending my kids over anymore as she does not trust me due to me being declared a Suppressive Person.

A heated conversation followed at which point I asked for my daughter to be put back on the phone.

My daughter is now in tears on the phone telling me that I should “Do it for her”

What she means is that I get back into good standing with Scientology. That “if I love her I would handle this with the Church”.

At this moment my heart is being ripped out of my chest.

She is insisting that if I do not she will have to “disconnect” from me otherwise she will not be able to continue in Scientology.

I reminded her about the warning I had sent her months ago.

I told her this is not me wanting to break our bond nor is it you, take a look what your heart says, this is somebody else - the Church - saying we cannot be together. I am not forcing this situation on you and vice versa, Scientology is forcing this on us.

I told her everything that I have spoken out about is from my experience, they are things within the Church that need to change. I told her I do not expect her to understand yet and for that will not get into all the reasons.

I used an example saying: If you are at school and you see a teacher abusing a child and nothing gets done about it and you go to the principal and tell him and he denies it and then the abuse continues. So you then go to the School inspectors to report what you have witnessed and as a result you get expelled from the school as an out of control student.

This is what is happening, I told her I cannot sit and watch Scientology spokes people talk on the TV and know they are lying and do nothing about it.

With tears on her side of the phone and me fighting back my tears she insisted I return and I replied I will not return to Scientology however I respect your decision to continue studying scientology and will not get in the way of that and never have.

I have never told her anything bad about Scientology only that I was out.

I did this specifically as I knew Scientology would pull out their heavy hand and rip another family to pieces.

Well boy was I wrong. They still went ahead, getting a 13 year old girl overwhelmed by tears to call her father and say she will not speak to him again until he is in good standing with Scientology. It’s beyond reason that this could even be asked of anyone let alone a 13 year old girl.

Now my 10 year old son does not get a say in this either. He becomes a victim and maybe not fully capable of understanding what is happening but regardless of how he feels he is forced to lose his father and is helpless to the heavy hand of Scientology.

This conversation went back and forth over an hour and it ended with my daughter well and truly in tears telling me not to contact her until I was in good standing with Scientology.

My heart was literally lying on the floor, shattered, I was deflated and slumped down on the couch.

Do you want to know why we protest, do you want to know why people speak out and risk so much to get the truth of Scientology out there?

Well this story is why we protest, we protest because a “Religious” group has policies and uses them to rip thousands of families in two all in the name of “Religious Freedom”.

You show me another group in this world that forces people to break up the most precious and basic unity there is in this world, the family.

We protest because of the ABUSE and we will not rest until it ends……
Click to expand...

Wow, a terrible story. I read your thread here and I wish you all the very best in resolving the disconnection being applied to you. Sounds like you are a great 'Daddy Tiger'. Just the 'elephants' in your way. They might be good at blowing their trumpet and using their might but Tigers have the element of surprise and agility. :yes:
 
I am sorry to hear this is being done to you. Hang in there. This is exactly why, as a public and only in for a few years, have gotten out! The shunning will not last too much longer. The house of cards is falling...it will not take long. The violation of putting the IDLE mORGues there before getting out of TREASON will surely expedite the process. Not to mention Debbie Cook...all of the public (non-Scientologists) are talking about it and how obvious it is that the Co$ is guilty and CRAZY! It is embarassing to have been part of the criminal group. The poor staff don't know what is happening and it is pretty much status quo of no new public and has been that way for the past few years...so they don't know and CAN'T look!

The SP Declares are being issued like "Clear" Certs should be issued. Our Idle mORGue stats in the past few years: SP Declares: 7, Dead: 6, Clears: 0 No one is training, just a few staff in the course room.

COVERT INVALIDATION IS THE SOCIAL INTERCOURSE OF THE SP:biggrin:

The SP DEALS MAINLY IN RESTIMULATION, NEVER EASING, NEVER ERASING:angry:

The SP is HAPPY WHEN THE PC GETS WORSE :blush:

The SP is SAD WHEN THE PC GETS BETTER. (SO THEY NEVER GET BETTER FOR LONG!):bigcry:
 
Illegal Alien, this is just my opinion, but it seems to me that seeing your kids and not talking about Scientology is better than not seeing your kids at all. Talk about their school, their friends, their hobbies, their sports. Yes it's wrong and unfair that the "church" has messed up your relationship with your kids. But, your ex said you could see them, and even said that they could possibly go see you. I would grab what you can now. Just my humble opinion.
 
Dear Illegal Alien,

I could be mistaken, but the details you have posted are all too familiar... Did this happen mid-2009? Does your daughter have long, slightly curly, dark hair? If so there's a good chance I was her auditor while I was training at Flag. (I think I took her in session around September...).

If so, I can tell you she was just as torn as you were, but scared to go against the group. She hated that her parents landed up on either side of the fence, and really believed that the whole thing was silly. The good news is she gave the SO a hard time, refused to communicate until they were literally pulling their hair out.

She told me about you, and shared some of her best memories with me. I don't believe she will ever "let it go", although once we got her BPC off, I think she decided to "play the game" and just do and say what was wanted, so she could have normality in her life. She is a tough cookie, and I was proud of her for sticking to her guns for so long. If it helps at all, know that she is a wonderful, plucky, girl who knows her own mind, and how to play the game to suit her.

Also, know that you had a few SO terminals sweating.... Unfortunately, not for the right reasons. They knew that if they didn't handle the situation to the satisfaction of seniors they would land in some pretty hot water. I know it's not much consolation, and I wish I could offer you more, but you should keep hope alive and well ... it won't be long before the whole house of cards comes crashing down.
 
If I may, I would just like to say that after reading 'fair game' stuff and sp 'stuff' here and other sites and the scientology materials itself I have come to a conclusion.
It seems to me that the churchies who run the joints seem to think like this........."Lets see, disconnection is no longer applied......not on policy....mmmm .but HEY, WOW, it doesnt apply to sps!.... (light bulb moment) ... Of course! Label the nuisance factor an sp! Problem solved." Disconnesction is now applicable.:clap:

LAZY LAZY LAZY.:p
ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE.:eyeroll: My brother cant or wont talk to me now. So, I am a disconnected person I guess:unsure:
OH Well.
I think the church is actively ushering genocidal tendencies put forth by the one who thinks he is the ruler of the world (David M.. No sea org member allowed to have children:nervous:.......abortions sanctioned :nervous:(contrary to the scientology bible - Dianetics) And worse yet....busting up families :nervous:such as this threads details. Very sad.
 
With everything that has happened especially on the legal side through the last past of this thread. I need to get this out there.

I had a lot of advice to get legal help and not be stomped on by my x wife.
One of the big problems here is that Mexico is involved, believe me a very different legal system to what we have here in Australia or the USA.

My only real option in this dirty little game started by SCIENTOLOGY DISCONNECTION POLICY would have been to fly to Mexico and fight for custody, taking many weeks if not months to resolve it. Massive legal fees and no income while fighting the case all creating new issues. If fighting it would have returned the love of my kids and erased all the damage done to them by Scientology that might have been a different story and for sure worth fighting for. But all I saw was me fighting it and perhaps on a legal paper still having a say in their lives but not the love warmth and respect from them.
On my return to Australia the sinister Scientologists would again infect their minds with lies about me.

Once again, on the side, I find out the newest info about my kids; thanks to contacts.

THIS IS HOW FAR SCIENTOLOGY DISCONNECTION CAN GO. I have now lost all legal rights to my kids.

What more can I say that has not been posted through out this thread.

I have a family here in Australia that I love and they love and need me to.
That is very valuable.
I suppose the next will be when my daughter Estefania Kelsey or my son Rafael Kelsey get older, much older, see the truth about Scientology and reach out to me and I will have both hands waiting.

I may have lost this battle but I do not think I will loose the war.
 
Ah mate, my heart goes out to you.

Sometimes we have to stop banging the head against the brick wall and step back. I know the feeling well and the frustration at not being able to change anything. I can't see my ailing parents (who are not in) because of disconnection and many other things. It can tear your guts out.

Don't feel guilty hey, you have done so much. The important ones are the ones who love you here and now. The future will bring what it brings and the downfall of scientology is inevitable. :hug:
 
I can't add much to the words Free to shine just wrote ... except to say that when I was a scientologist (and hardly felt real emotion) a significant loss could be (had to be) flippantly tossed off and I wore the 'ability' to do that (and remain 'uptone') like a badge of honour, but grief was waiting for me decades later when I woke up.

:yes:

It seems to me that you made the right choice to not fight the case under the circumstances.

Feel your grief and loss IA but please don't let it consume you or tarnish the family you have created in Australia, they are your priority, they have to be.

Your little ones will almost certainly seek you out one day.

Thank you for coming to update us, people here really do care.

:love11:​
 
IA

Ten years ago, soon after my youngest turned 18, I was declared. My crimes included signing a petition to investigate the tax-except status of the organization, sending my son an email with ot-III attachment, and sending one daughter a link to operation clam bake have not and telling one daughter I believe in a supreme being other than self or hub. I had raised these children until about ten year before I was declared, but I felt it fair that they have time with their mother.

I had gotten her into sci. At one time I had sign a s.o. contract and worked on staff day and fnd in a class 5 org. She was a public. We divorced.

I have had nothing from them since being declared. They have married into sci fams and had children. They live near their mother.

I have just discovered this thread today and have read it all. No-one can really know what being a walking dead is like until you are killed in the most important place you live - in the hearts of your kids.

I never believed such a nightmare would possibly happen to me. My wife and I had had a trusting relationship. I even drove them out to live with her. As you have sadly discovered you have been harmed by the most ruthless of groups.

I take daily solace in my visits to this board. Nowadays I drink less, live a pretty simple life. I find myself ranting less.

Cow-towing to such an evil group holds no honor. It allows their influence to grow. I dream of true reunion with my kids and knowing my grandchildren. I pray for the freedom of your and my hostages which grows more likely as the captors weaken.

Dinner is getting cold.
 
Illegal Alien and Wants2Talk I've been trying to think of a way to express my sadness and outrage over what that evil damn cult did to your families. I can't find the words. It's a tragedy beyond mere words. Every potential sentence just ends up sounding inadequate.

I hope for a future reunion...and hopefully soon!


:rose:
 
IA

My heart is breaking.
A day will come, your kids will find themselves in front ofa computer and they will google their names… and they will read how you foughtfor them, they will feel the profound love you have for them and what you went through when they were ripped from your live. And they will come to resent the cult that did this. When you get that call, the rejoicing on this site will be heard round the world.

aintry
 
Illegal Alien, you might want to check out a recent episode of the ABC's Foreign Correspondent. While it is about child custody in Japan the themes and info might be useful for you.

If your children had been snatched by your partner and taken overseas you’d hope the law would be on your side and the authorities would do everything in their power to retrieve them. Well, not if they’ve been taken to one particular country with an infamous reputation for protecting kidnappers. Japan has become a refuge for nationals who’ve swiped their children from homes around the world and the catalogue of heartbreak is enormous. Unless, as one parent in our investigation has done, you side-step the law, hire some burly help and stop at nothing to get your children back.
Click to expand...

http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2012/s3508549.htm

It is still available for viewing on iView:

http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/946072
 
Driving home yesterday from a long trip I was thinking about this.....it never actually goes away. I have a plan to get my message of love out to my kids.

I want to make a video and get it out on youtube and the social media hubs. Some day they will come across it.
Have some ideas and I am playing around with a few others.

Scientology may be preventing me from speaking to my kids in an open and sane fashion but they can not stop me voicing my love for them.
 
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