EXACTLY HelluvaHoax! I know because it happened to me when I had questions as to why they use the cross if they don't believe in God. The cross is to symbolize Jesus dying on the cross for us so that our sins are forgiven. In the Bible it states to believe in me (God) you have to believe also in Jesus and the Holy Ghost. After they fumbled horribly I might add to even give me a viable answer, they finally gave up and thats when they told it was time to leave and they had my fiancee disconnect from me. They knew I couldnt be persuaded by their insane crap that they were selling.
Can You Be a Christian Scientologist? (Juliette Lewis Says YES in New Interview)
- Thread starter Type4_PTS
- Start date
EXACTLY HelluvaHoax! I know because it happened to me when I had questions as to why they use the cross if they don't believe in God. The cross is to symbolize Jesus dying on the cross for us so that our sins are forgiven. In the Bible it states to believe in me (God) you have to believe also in Jesus and the Holy Ghost. After they fumbled horribly I might add to even give me a viable answer, they finally gave up and thats when they told it was time to leave and they had my fiancee disconnect from me. They knew I couldnt be persuaded by their insane crap that they were selling.
Mark A. Baker
Sponsor
Use the insert quote button at the top of the edit panel and be sure to add/remove slash marks as appropriate ("/"). Use preview to make sure it looks the way you want it before submitting.
As to your post, I'm limited in the ability to reply to your items as a result of the format you adopted in your response to my prior.
Basically the "a christianity"/"many christianities" is a matter of interpretation. Many implies the existence of multiple "singles", i.e. several "a"s. In the case of "christianity" each individualized version has a tendency to profess that it alone is the "only one".
As to "my belief"/"not my belief", the early books clearly define the subject of scientology. Just as Hubbard clearly created the SO and its doctrines to serve him personally and to allow him control over the Co$.
The question remains: which does the individual choose to accept as definitive?
The books serve to define the nature and materials of the subject of scientology. The subject as defined requires the individual to make decisions for himself. Those decisions may be "articles of faith" or "based on personal experience" or "subject to rational analysis" or a combination of these and other factors. That's not solely a matter of "belief". It is a statement of the subject of scientology as laid out in the foundation materials of the subject. Indeed, "belief" need play not part in an individual's choices.
I've never been interested in cults of personality such as Hubbard sought to create with the SO. Hence Hubbard's views are at best of secondary interest.
It's a question of individual understanding. I have no "faith" in scientology, per se. I use what I find makes sense based on the subject as defined by the fundamental principles and later developments which are consonant with those principles. Where things do not make sense to me I do not rely on them.
Mark A. Baker
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
On second thought....
After hearing such compelling arguments by Scientologists on this thread, I am forced to conclude:
Don't ask how it all works. It's Scientology.
After hearing such compelling arguments by Scientologists on this thread, I am forced to conclude:
* The suicide pilots who crashed into the World Trade Towers on 9/11 were both Islamic Terrorists AND loyal Americans. No conflict there, folks, move along.
* There is no reason that during the Holocaust a German Jew could not easily embrace the idea of being a both a concentration camp Jew AND a Nazi. No slightest problem, work it out in clay.
* A Scientologist could quite easily lay claim to being a KSW Parishioner AND a Psychiatrist who practices ECT and dispenses psychotropics.No worries, cuz Scientologists are high havingness people that don't mind going along with the flow.
* A 100% Standard Auditor can also be an evil Squirrel.
* There is no reason that during the Holocaust a German Jew could not easily embrace the idea of being a both a concentration camp Jew AND a Nazi. No slightest problem, work it out in clay.
* A Scientologist could quite easily lay claim to being a KSW Parishioner AND a Psychiatrist who practices ECT and dispenses psychotropics.No worries, cuz Scientologists are high havingness people that don't mind going along with the flow.
* A 100% Standard Auditor can also be an evil Squirrel.
Don't ask how it all works. It's Scientology.
Free Being Me
Crusader
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.
Never again will you be capable of ordinary human feeling. Everything will be dead inside you. Never again will you be capable of love, or friendship, or joy of living, or laughter, or curiosity, or courage, or integrity. You will be hollow. We shall squeeze you empty and then we shall fill you with ourselves. (George Orwell 1984)
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clamicide
Gold Meritorious Patron
I think we're forgetting how deep the cognitive dissonance can go when one is in Scioworld. It's a PR line, but I could see her fully believing it. Plus, she's a celeb. I remember hearing Kelley Preston interviewed on how she handles the stress of pregnancy and she said yoga--and I thought "Damn! If I did yoga, I'd be routed to ethics for 'other practices'." Celebs live in a different version of Scientology.
The denial of aliens is simply laughable. Open the tech dictionary and it's teeming with alien stuff. Invader Forces anyone? That just falls under the whole handling of 'raw meat'. Every staff who was in Div VI when I was around was drilled on that stuff. Regges often couldn't resist and would start going all crazy whole-track while trying to scare someone into saving their eternity and emptying their bank account before they were indoctrinated enough to hear the whole shebang; 95% of the time, we'd never see that student again.
The denial of aliens is simply laughable. Open the tech dictionary and it's teeming with alien stuff. Invader Forces anyone? That just falls under the whole handling of 'raw meat'. Every staff who was in Div VI when I was around was drilled on that stuff. Regges often couldn't resist and would start going all crazy whole-track while trying to scare someone into saving their eternity and emptying their bank account before they were indoctrinated enough to hear the whole shebang; 95% of the time, we'd never see that student again.
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
JULIET LEWIS
I am a God-fearing Atheist.
INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
Wow, it makes sense!
JULIET LEWIS
I'm a tone 40 Scientologist
that doesn't believe in KSW. As
a matter of fact I don't even
think Scientology works! But I
use it in my daily life.
INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
Wow, you're amazing!
JULIET LEWIS
I'm talking but I'm silent.
I'm sleeping but I'm awake.
I'm alive but actually I'm dead.
INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
Wow! I totally duplicate you.
But at the same time I have no
idea WTF you are talking about.
JULIET LEWIS
That's why it's so awesome that we have
someone like Mark Baker to explain
our advanced tech to people.
I am a God-fearing Atheist.
INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
Wow, it makes sense!
JULIET LEWIS
I'm a tone 40 Scientologist
that doesn't believe in KSW. As
a matter of fact I don't even
think Scientology works! But I
use it in my daily life.
INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
Wow, you're amazing!
JULIET LEWIS
I'm talking but I'm silent.
I'm sleeping but I'm awake.
I'm alive but actually I'm dead.
INDIE SCIENTOLOGIST
Wow! I totally duplicate you.
But at the same time I have no
idea WTF you are talking about.
JULIET LEWIS
That's why it's so awesome that we have
someone like Mark Baker to explain
our advanced tech to people.
That's unfair! Mark doesn't *explain!* He just 'corrects' people who get things *wrong*. Like, for example, suggesting that words like 'Scientologist' or 'Christian' or 'Nuclear Physicist' have any inherent meaning beyond noise.
Zinj
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
according to cult registrars....
INSOLVENCY IS WEALTH
It actually makes sense to a Scientologist. They could clay demo it for you.
INSOLVENCY IS WEALTH
It actually makes sense to a Scientologist. They could clay demo it for you.
Sindy
Crusader
From the author of the new book, "Christianity without Limits" comes the new book, "Christianity without Christ" which explores the controversial (yet very real) idea that aliens from outer space may be Christians though they have never actually heard of Jesus Christ.
The author, Mark Baker, says this new concept will run our traditional ideas of Christianity through the mill, bringing us to a much more grounded belief that Christ is merely a superfluous adjunct to the beleaguered religion.
Baker reports, "In this day and age, why keep Christianity confined to it's strict meaning? Why not let it blossom into "other" religions? Let it be what it wants to be. Let it out of it's cage to run free. Christianity can be what you want it to be. There are NO limits and dare I say, Christ is not necessary?"
Christ is not necessary? While Baker's ideas are crazy to some, a small cult following of "Christian Scientologists" unnaturally cling to the idea.
Celebrity Juliette Lewis (Natural Born Killers, Understanding the E-Meter) says that though she considers herself a Scientologist (evil, satanic, black magick, anti-christ cult), she embraces Christianity.
"Yes we celebrate Christmas." (Head spins around 360 degrees spewing projectile vomit) "Why do you ask bitch?"
Oh, my. This didn't seem very "Christian" to us here at the New York Times but, what do we know? Times are changing. To each his own.
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
It's a good thing Mark has all ex-scientologists on this message board on "ignore" or he'd post a devastatingly pedantic rejoinder with a lot of these......
HelluvaHoax!
Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
"Yes we celebrate Christmas." (Head spins around 360 degrees spewing projectile vomit) "Why do you ask bitch?"
lololololololololololololol!
lololololololololololololol!
Type4_PTS
Diamond Invictus SP
I was looking at a blog post just now asking the same question as on this thread: "Can You Be a Christian Scientologist". Most respondents seem to be just fine with it. 
http://altreligion.about.com/b/2010/12/12/can-you-be-a-christian-scientologist.htm
Seems that there is at least one Bakerologist that responded in the comments section with this response:
"It is becoming more and more common to ‘mix and match’ religions. I think this is beautiful, because it means someone has looked around at many various religions and chosen the parts that apply to them. Furthermore, it makes it far more difficult for a person to develop ‘extreme’ views in any one religion."
Mark, was that you??
http://altreligion.about.com/b/2010/12/12/can-you-be-a-christian-scientologist.htm
Seems that there is at least one Bakerologist that responded in the comments section with this response:
"It is becoming more and more common to ‘mix and match’ religions. I think this is beautiful, because it means someone has looked around at many various religions and chosen the parts that apply to them. Furthermore, it makes it far more difficult for a person to develop ‘extreme’ views in any one religion."
Mark, was that you??
Type4_PTS
Diamond Invictus SP
Margery Wakefield wrote a paper almost 20 years ago entitled "What Christians Need To Know About Scientology"
It is true today just as it was back in 1991 and it will continue to be true from here on out. No matter where you are in or out of Christian Scientology you find yourself this paper applies to YOU.
What Christians Need to Know about Scientology
by Margery Wakefield (1991)
It is true today just as it was back in 1991 and it will continue to be true from here on out. No matter where you are in or out of Christian Scientology you find yourself this paper applies to YOU.
What Christians Need to Know about Scientology
by Margery Wakefield (1991)
Abstract: When new people are inducted into Scientology, they are often told that there is no inherent conflict between Scientology and any religion, including Christianity. But it is common for Scientologists to be less than truthful at the outset. By calming the new person's misgivings, they know that by the time the person has become fully indoctrinated, these misgivings will no longer matter. In fact, there is no compatibility between Scientology and Christianity. As a belief system based on satanic principles, Scientology is diametrically opposed to Christianity. The truth is that you cannot be both a Christian and a Scientologist.
Contents
- Introduction
- L. Ron Hubbard as Liar
- The Satanic Roots of Scientology
- Scientology and Christianity
- The Propaganda of Scientology
Appendix
For those of you whose Christian toes I may have stepped on, let me take the opportunity to disabuse you of some lovely myths. For instance, the historic Jesus was not nearly the sainted figure (he) has been made out to be. In addition to being a lover of young boys and men, he was given to uncontrollable bursts of temper and hatred.... You have only to look at the history his teachings inspired to see where it all inevitably leads. It is historic fact and yet man still clings to the ideal, so deep and insidious is the biologic implanting....
No doubt you are familiar with the Revelations section of the Bible where various events are predicted. Also mentioned is a brief period of time in which the arch-enemy of Christ, referred to as the anti-Christ, will reign and his opinions will have sway ... this anti-Christ represents the forces of Lucifer (literally, the "light-bearer" or "light-bringer"), Lucifer being a mythical representation of the forces of enlightenment.... My mission could be said to fulfill the Biblical promise represented by this brief anti-Christ period.
-- L. Ron Hubbard, Student Briefing, OT VIII Series I
READ FULL PAPER HERE:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/wakefield/christians.html
No doubt you are familiar with the Revelations section of the Bible where various events are predicted. Also mentioned is a brief period of time in which the arch-enemy of Christ, referred to as the anti-Christ, will reign and his opinions will have sway ... this anti-Christ represents the forces of Lucifer (literally, the "light-bearer" or "light-bringer"), Lucifer being a mythical representation of the forces of enlightenment.... My mission could be said to fulfill the Biblical promise represented by this brief anti-Christ period.
-- L. Ron Hubbard, Student Briefing, OT VIII Series I
READ FULL PAPER HERE:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/wakefield/christians.html
Type4_PTS
Diamond Invictus SP
I was looking at a blog post just now asking the same question as on this thread: "Can You Be a Christian Scientologist". Most respondents seem to be just fine with it.
http://altreligion.about.com/b/2010/12/12/can-you-be-a-christian-scientologist.htm
There was at least one respondent that did make a good point though:
"Sure, one can certainly be a Christian Scientologist. No Problem! One can also be an African American member of the KKK too, right?
It’s about the same thing.
Scientologys roots are satanic in origin. Hubbard had stated on more than one occasion that there IS NO CHRIST! But as long as you’ve got money and lots of it there is nothing that can prevent you from being a Christian Scientologist."
Free Being Me
Crusader
HaHaHaHa!!!!!!!!
That's friggin funny as hell. I should add that to my sig....insolvency is wealth! 
But I am leery, wary, hesitant, suspicious, distrustful, doubtful, chary, cynical, skeptical, of $cientologist explanations. (tried that once)
Possibly Mark could demo "DELUSION IS REALITY" on youtube for us.
Panda Termint
Cabal Of One
And this pile-on, crucifying Mark for what he believes, kinda makes his point in my opinion.
It's a good thing Mark has all ex-scientologists on this message board on "ignore" or he'd post a devastatingly pedantic rejoinder with a lot of these......
These personal attacks are just too much; ease up for Chrissake, it's Christmas!
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Type4_PTS
Diamond Invictus SP
I certainly support Marks right to have and express whatever opinion he holds. And if any of my attacks got personal towards Mark I apologize. The attacks were intended as a response towards his ideas.
In my opinion some of the ideas he is expressing are completely absurd and that's why he is getting some strong responses.
And it is not my intention to attack Juliette Lewis either. I was a big fan of hers from the time she was about 13 years old when I worked next to her Mom and thought she was very deserving of the Academy Award nomination for her role in Cape Fear. I don't know what her personal beliefs REALLY are. She may really consider herself a Christian Scientologist, and she obviously has a right to believe whatever she wishes. Sure, one certainly can consider themselves a Christian Scientologist if one wishes and maybe she does. But in my opinion, if her beliefs ARE sincere in this regard then she is truly ignorant of the beliefs of the Scientology founder as concerns Christianity. And this is quite probable in fact. Most of us when we were in the cult WERE ignorant of many things of this nature.