David Miscavige's abuses and violence

[afaceinthecrowd]

If the administrative tech worked, why would anyone ever need violence? It's all a big, very un-funny, joke of epic proportions.

All the way down to org level (I have never witnessed the inner workings of a mission) there is violence and it appears it has been that way almost since the beginning.

When I very first joined staff, and I had only been in Scientology for 4 days at the time, I witnessed chairs being thrown, doors being slammed, a card file wielded at someone's head, screaming, etc. I had only been in for days!

I should have run for the hills. WTF!! God. I really can't believe it sometimes.

God help me...me too.

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Like it or not, and I personally hate it, but violence is respected in this culture.

Kings Queens and politicians are remembered for the wars they fought not for the wars they avoided. The more guys they send off to stand in front of canons and bows and arrows they bigger their place in history.

That's insane, the guys that diplomatically handle situations are forgotten!

 

[Auditor's Toad]

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one (1)
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.............marketing jingo.........
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[CarmeloOrchards]

If the administrative tech worked, why would anyone ever need violence? It's all a big, very un-funny, joke of epic proportions.

All the way down to org level (I have never witnessed the inner workings of a mission) there is violence and it appears it has been that way almost since the beginning.

When I very first joined staff, and I had only been in Scientology for 4 days at the time, I witnessed chairs being thrown, doors being slammed, a card file wielded at someone's head, screaming, etc. I had only been in for days!

I should have run for the hills. WTF!! God. I really can't believe it sometimes.

I came from centers (prior to missions) and groups. There was never any violence. The worst I heard was a coffee cup being flung at a wall.

But as to green on white workability:

it wasn't so much the green on white that didn't work, as it was the culture meta morphing the entire scene. The culture came from the top.

There are business schools all over this world, with teachers giving students "the way" -- underlying all of these ways is a cultural paradigm. Some businesses (GE for instance) last a long time, others don't.

The culture that a policy is imbedded in, says more about the viability of the group than the words themselves.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Like it or not, and I personally hate it, but violence is respected in this culture.

Kings Queens and politicians are remembered for the wars they fought not for the wars they avoided. The more guys they send off to stand in front of canons and bows and arrows they bigger their place in history.

That's insane, the guys that diplomatically handle situations are forgotten!

Something about yell at the top of your lungs and beat the shit of 'em with a big stick.

Somebody famous said that.

Who was it ?

 

[Auditor's Toad]

While public didn't see the violence, they saw the long hours staff had to work and were amazed when they found the pay was a pittance.

Staff saw the public pay enormus sums of money for services and it made no sense.

Public saw the flaws with staff conditions. Staff saw the flaws with the way public was treated.

Yet own own difficulty it took awhile to come to terms with.

Weird, huh?

 

[Sindy]

I came from centers (prior to missions) and groups. There was never any violence. The worst I heard was a coffee cup being flung at a wall.

But as to green on white workability:

it wasn't so much the green on white that didn't work, as it was the culture meta morphing the entire scene. The culture came from the top.

here are business schools all over this world, with teachers giving students "the way" -- underlying all of these ways is a cultural paradigm. Some businesses (GE for instance) last a long time, others don't.

The culture that a policy is imbedded in, says more about the viability of the group than the words themselves.

How was the culture created? I believe the policy led to the creation of the culture, not the other way around.

 

[Smilla]

If that little rat could get away with it he'd bring in 'pay-per-punch'. I suspect that his alcohol useage is a major factor in his dysfunctional behaviour. In any case, one day he will find himself friendless, and that will be the day when Karma came to stay.

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

How was the culture created? I believe the policy led to the creation of the culture, not the other way around.

Before I noticed it in Scientology, I was reading authors like Vance Packard (when I was in my teens in the 1960s), If you read "Up The Organization" by Robert Townsend (I'm dating myself), he was the guy , who turned Avis around and made it number two in car rentals or "Swimming With The Sharks" by Harvey MacKay or any of dozens of business books, you can't help but walk away knowing that the corporate culture comes from the TOP. In Hyatt Hotels, the Pritzkers set the tone. In Howard Hughes' ventures (Hughes Tool and Die, TWA, casinos, etc) Howard set the tone. At Disney, Walt set the tone. (I continue to date myself). Juan Trippe set the tone at Pan Am. Steve Jobs set the tone at Apple. Bill Gates.......

businesses run on culture. The leader, the top banana sets the culture.

At Apple, perfection, simplicity, elegance, user friendly are absolutes. Mediocrity isn't hired.

check out the new Pan Am Tv show (ABC Sunday nights), they make it very clear that the pilots and crew were the best of the best. That is company culture.

At Hyatt Hotels, executives have to spend a week or two a year (I haven't googled this, just remember it) on the front desk of a Hyatt Hotel. It is important for the executives to be in touch with the real world.

In Scientology there was all the written words. None of that mattered compared to the stats. Money. $$$$$$. Deutshmarks. Pounds Sterling. Krugerrand. The culture was greed. Greed from the TOP.

back in 1976, when I walked away from briefing course grad, OT, and my own center, when the prices were being jacked up 10 per cent a month, i had no problem identifying WHO was at the top. The reges were hungry for money. Money was something Flag would lie to you about. I had a post dated check for five figures cashed instantly. Money was what was the highest of the high , in terms of priorities. PCs were lied to. Not occasionally, but universally. It was all about money.

NOWHERE IN POLICY DOES IT SAY REGES, C/Ses, D of Ps, cashiers should lie to the public. Yet it was done on every single person who came to Flag. Every last one. This is why I say culture trumps policy. The culture was to get the $$$ BUCKS$$$, not deliver as per policy.

The closer you got to "source" (I say that J & D ingly) the greedier and hungrier the jackals. I never went to college (other than a few real estate and IT courses), but it didn't take a genius to see where the "greed" culture came from.

if you don't know WHO I'm talking about, call me, I have a bridge I want to sell you.

 

[afaceinthecrowd]

While public didn't see the violence, they saw the long hours staff had to work and were amazed when they found the pay was a pittance.

Staff saw the public pay enormus sums of money for services and it made no sense.

Public saw the flaws with staff conditions. Staff saw the flaws with the way public was treated.

Yet own own difficulty it took awhile to come to terms with.

Weird, huh?

All parasites are "slow burn" predators.

Sam Peckinpah showed us that violence is more tolerable in slow motion.

El Ron was a parasite. Hisself’s Organizational and Management construct is parasitic, as is Scn.

What you saw in the eyes of the Staff Members and what they saw in the eyes of the Public was the ultra slow motion violence that was, step by step, measure by measure, being meted out unto each and every one of Us.

Face

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

All parasites are "slow burn" predators.

Sam Peckinpah showed us that violence is more tolerable in slow motion.

El Ron was a parasite. Hisself’s Organizational and Management construct is parasitic, as is Scn.

What you saw in the eyes of the Staff Members and what they saw in the eyes of the Public was the ultra slow motion violence that was, step by step, measure by measure, being meted out onto each and every one of Us.

Face

OH!Wow!

 

[La La Lou Lou]

Audito'r Toad asked...

''Something about yell at the top of your lungs and beat the shit of 'em with a big stick.

Somebody famous said that.

Who was it ?''

Auditor's Toad, well it wasn't me that said that. I put it into google and it didn't come up with anything.

It does sound like someone from 'Oliver Twist'. Mind you so does the average SO dining experience.

 

[Karen#1]

Chris Guider, an Aussie from Down Under was the RTC MAA,

As RTC MAA, Chris Guider was THE highest Ethics Officer in the Church of Scientology.

A former Australian rugby league star who abandoned his sporting career for a life in the Church of Scientology says its head is a "violent" and "toxic" individual.

Chris Guider (former Inspector General MAA [Ethics Officer] at International Management, late 1980s-1990s worked directly with Miscavige) said this on September 22, 2011 to Australian TV:
“[David Miscavige] is a violent individual. … I’ve seen him physically beat one staff member, Mark Fisher, who was formerly an executive in RTC and worked very closely with Miscavige for a lot of years. And I witnessed [Miscavige] beating him. …”
“[Miscavige] was standing behind a person, who was editing the [video]. And [Miscavige was] telling him how he was doing this wrong and that wrong, and screaming at him. In the Ethics Officer role, you have this little … “riding crop” [stick] … and it’s just meant to be a symbol of authority that the Ethics Officer has. Well anyway, Miscavige told me to BEAT the guy with the stick. I looked at him and I refused to do that. He took that very, very severely on me because I didn’t just do what he wanted me to do.”

(Source: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2011/s3323979.htm)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6J2w1Mzx0A

 

[CarmeloOrchards]

Audito'r Toad asked...

''Something about yell at the top of your lungs and beat the shit of 'em with a big stick.

Somebody famous said that.

Who was it ?''

Auditor's Toad, well it wasn't me that said that. I put it into google and it didn't come up with anything.

It does sound like someone from 'Oliver Twist'. Mind you so does the average SO dining experience.

Teddy Roosevelt, American president

"Speak softly, and carry a big stick."

 

[Smilla]

All parasites are "slow burn" predators.

Sam Peckinpah showed us that violence is more tolerable in slow motion.

El Ron was a parasite. Hisself’s Organizational and Management construct is parasitic, as is Scn.

What you saw in the eyes of the Staff Members and what they saw in the eyes of the Public was the ultra slow motion violence that was, step by step, measure by measure, being meted out onto each and every one of Us.

Face

I look upon Hubbard as being a multi-pathology case - a Narcissistic Sociopathy, mixed with a Paranoia disorder. Narcissistic Sociopaths have an inability to see other people as seperate entities, with their own needs, wants, and ideas. Such people see others as an extension of themselves who exist only to serve their needs and wants; so your use of 'parasite' is absolutely right, IMO.

 

[degraded being]

Before I noticed it in Scientology, I was reading authors like Vance Packard (when I was in my teens in the 1960s), If you read "Up The Organization" by Robert Townsend (I'm dating myself), he was the guy , who turned Avis around and made it number two in car rentals or "Swimming With The Sharks" by Harvey MacKay or any of dozens of business books, you can't help but walk away knowing that the corporate culture comes from the TOP. In Hyatt Hotels, the Pritzkers set the tone. In Howard Hughes' ventures (Hughes Tool and Die, TWA, casinos, etc) Howard set the tone. At Disney, Walt set the tone. (I continue to date myself). Juan Trippe set the tone at Pan Am. Steve Jobs set the tone at Apple. Bill Gates.......

businesses run on culture. The leader, the top banana sets the culture.

At Apple, perfection, simplicity, elegance, user friendly are absolutes. Mediocrity isn't hired.

check out the new Pan Am Tv show (ABC Sunday nights), they make it very clear that the pilots and crew were the best of the best. That is company culture.

At Hyatt Hotels, executives have to spend a week or two a year (I haven't googled this, just remember it) on the front desk of a Hyatt Hotel. It is important for the executives to be in touch with the real world.

In Scientology there was all the written words. None of that mattered compared to the stats. Money. $$$$$$. Deutshmarks. Pounds Sterling. Krugerrand. The culture was greed. Greed from the TOP.

back in 1976, when I walked away from briefing course grad, OT, and my own center, when the prices were being jacked up 10 per cent a month, i had no problem identifying WHO was at the top. The reges were hungry for money. Money was something Flag would lie to you about. I had a post dated check for five figures cashed instantly. Money was what was the highest of the high , in terms of priorities. PCs were lied to. Not occasionally, but universally. It was all about money.

NOWHERE IN POLICY DOES IT SAY REGES, C/Ses, D of Ps, cashiers should lie to the public. Yet it was done on every single person who came to Flag. Every last one. This is why I say culture trumps policy. The culture was to get the $$$ BUCKS$$$, not deliver as per policy.

The closer you got to "source" (I say that J & D ingly) the greedier and hungrier the jackals. I never went to college (other than a few real estate and IT courses), but it didn't take a genius to see where the "greed" culture came from.

if you don't know WHO I'm talking about, call me, I have a bridge I want to sell you.

Big noters in business have become cult like figures in recent decades. The media hypes them up. The public seems to lap it up.

 

[Veda]

How was the culture created? I believe the policy led to the creation of the culture, not the other way around.

The culture is based partly on policy, but also on Hubbard's confidential instructions. Hubbard's written, recorded spoken, and transcribed confidential instructions trump publicized policy. Rank and file Scientologists don't see this part of Scientology except, sometimes, when experiencing its effects. Even spitting in people's faces originated with written instructions from Hubbard. Hubbard designed Scientology to operate on the pattern of a criminal conspiracy, and it still does. Hubbard also designed it not to be fully comprehended by rank and file Scientologists, and it still isn't. What's remarkable about places such as Marty Rathbun's blog is that the folks there are "out," some for years, and still don't comprehend. The objective, apparently, is to institutionalize or, otherwise, sustain that lack of comprehension in a "group" called "Independent Scientology." It's very strange.

 

[ILove2Lurk]

Face,

You and others have mentioned LRH and DM and Marty even "going for the gold." And everyone knows about the emphasis in the COS on money, money, money until all one's money is gone . . . and then some. And I did see all that and do get all that.

However, in normal commercial businesses in the world there's a purpose for all the pressure and greed: someone(s) get rich. Real rich. Millions and billions rich. Whether it's CEOs, partners, employees. shareholders, etc.

I don't see this happening in the COS though, unless I'm missing something extraordinary. The only people that might be getting personally rich in all of this is maybe DM, though it's not really easily provable, and then a bunch of lawyers and PIs, maybe.

If anything, the COS seems like an automatic machine that's been set up to gather money on one end and waste it on the other. Sorta mulching money like a tree trimming machine out into the air. When it's just easy to get (donations with no exchange), it's real easy to waste and toss around.

Same goes with the Hubbard estate. Where did all that go? Doesn't seem like the family got enough to talk about. If it all went to build the caves to store the engraved steel plates, well today there's much more affordable solutions to store digital data nearly forever.

In which case, all the work that went into amassing the small personal fortune was for naught in the end. Nothing came of it as far as I can see. Just frittered away maybe. Did it go back into the SO reserves, the war chest?

I guess I don't understand the ongoing motivation to keep amassing money here. In the real world, someone benefits directly and there's the daily motivation.

Legally, DM shouldn't be able to do this. Inurement.

Do I have a "blind spot" about all this?

I know when one gets older and has a bit more wisdom, you really see that "you can't take it with you" and money for money's sake has a lot different importance to you than when you're younger. When you're older health, more quality time and good friends really mean a lot more as long as you've got enough money to get by on for a bit more.

I just don't get the "prime mover" nowadays on the whole money angle . . . years ago, yes, but today, not really.

Can ya help me on this one?

ILove2Lurk

 

[Winston Smith]

Audito'r Toad asked...

''Something about yell at the top of your lungs and beat the shit of 'em with a big stick.

Somebody famous said that.

Who was it ?''

Auditor's Toad, well it wasn't me that said that. I put it into google and it didn't come up with anything.

It does sound like someone from 'Oliver Twist'. Mind you so does the average SO dining experience.

"Speak softly and carry a big stick, you will go far." Teddy Roosevelt, the GOOD cousin of FDR


--edited so that peeps won't call me on previous iterations.

 

[Winston Smith]

I don't know about California, but in VIRGINIA if you are threatened with lethal force (and that includes having the shit beat out of you, or confronting someone with a knife closer than 21 feet away, or ANYONE carrying a firearm) you may legally protect yourself or a third party so threathened with lethal force.

It is good to live in a sane state. It is good to have a CC permit.