Death and Rebirth

[NeXTep]

I think you're right and the thought that it would be nice to not have to learn the same damn lessons over and over again is one I've had.

You know, when I was 12, I got molested. Don't freak out or feel bad or anything- it was, as molestations go, relatively mild. No actual rape. But scary as shit. Actually what hurt the most was that I'd tricked the guy into giving me his name (because he was blubbering apologies and said he wanted to be friends) with the sole intention of giving it to the police- which I did. (You can tell I haven't completely changed since then, huh. LOL!) They did NOTHING with the information and I think they could have gotten him because a teenager in the neighborhood said she'd dated him when I told her about it. Anyway, how many times should any of us, as youngsters, how many lifetimes, I mean- have to learn that the man with the lost dog is really lying to you. Given how many lifetimes we've undoubtedly had, I mean, holy shit.

I've spent a lifetime accumulating information. Stuff like what I just described and so many other things, large and small, important and trivial. It would be nice to retain more of it. You know what I retained from last lifetime to this one? "One's natural state is happiness." Well, yeah, great and all, but woulda been nice if there'd been a "watch out for this and that" type things, too. I'd like to be a LOT wiser next time around. I'm not saying that this lifetime hasn't been great- it has and it is. I'm a lucky lucky girl, but I would like to retain more of these lessons I've learned.

I also really think that the physical shapes our personalities in addition to experiences. I did already say this-- I'm thinking astrology plays a part, too.

Also body thetans.

(just wanted to see if y'all are payin' attention. )

Hey fluffy I can understand that you would like to take more from one life to the next, yet the knowledge that you have to take care of this or the other is not relevant if you look at it from a different viewpoint.

Let me explain. You see the fact that you have to be careful about the (eventually ill intentioned) man with the lost dog is a typical example of mind conditioning in our culture, we are continually hammered that if we take the proper precautions we are safe. We continually remind our friends and family members to "take care", "drive carefully", "be watchful" etc, because our mind conditioning has been throughout life that unwanted things happen because you haven't been careful enough.

So taking across such "knowledge" from one life to the other is just a burden because you will have ever more things to "take care of" and you probably would end up locked up at home not speaking to anyone. And if you ventured on the street one day in your next lifetime the man with the lost dog has some other trick, that you probably never heard about.

Now what needs handling is the root of that issue, i.e. the fact that one attracts "bad" things. In Scientology, auditing would've taken care of such things if properly applied, yet it is overly expensive and out of reach for most and possibly also not too efficient but that varies from person to person. Yet it is a possible handling scenario. There are other methods like Zivorad's PEAT just to mention one.

But the seed is the basic issue that causes that unwanted things happen in your life until you actually go and find the root cause and do not try to handle the symptom. That basic issue is buried in your subconscious mind and has been not-ised maybe for eons and carried forward from life to life giving you always similar issues to deal with. Because once you addressed the issue and you know the core cause of it then first you won't be approached by the man seeking his dog and if it happens you'll realize that he is not ill intentioned towards you.

 

[Ladybird]

I believe in past lives and reincarnation, IMO I have solid hard proof that it happens.

However I am sick and tired of it and don't want to play that game anymore.

Bob Dylan said it better than I can:

An' here I sit so patiently
Waiting to find out what price
You have to pay to get out of
Going through all these things twice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGUy2ajGu9A

 

[nw2394]

I believe in past lives and reincarnation, IMO I have solid hard proof that it happens.

However I am sick and tired of it and don't want to play that game anymore.

I know the feeling. But what are you gonna do - step off of life?

I've lived the "cease playinig that old game" thing - there is some necessity in it - but you also gotta find something you want to do and can do well.

Nick

 

[Ladybird]

I know the feeling. But what are you gonna do - step off of life?

I've lived the "cease playinig that old game" thing - there is some necessity in it - but you also gotta find something you want to do and can do well.

Nick

What Scientology promises is something other than dying over and over and over again and freedom from all the loss and pain that entails. I think it must be a pretty universal experience. Most religions promise a way out of the cycle of birth and death into some sort of nivana or heaven or "Target 2" or whatever they call it.

We would all like answers. I have searched long and hard and I have found some but not the real secret yet.

Have you?

 

[ladybeetle]

Knowledge itself also has a place in all this too (I am working on my own theories here) We don't want to forget what we have learnt as a species just as much as we don't want to forget as spiritual beings.

Things like basic tools came along "when the time was right" right up to Nuclear power etc, like evolution, knowledge has a requirement to build upon itself

I am not sure how this all fits in with identities but there must be some method in which knowledge is pulled forward along the track, just like the life force (apart from the obvious books, computers etc)

I don't think that we forget eyerything. Sure, there must be some method to save knowledge.
Observing small children it is for one how they learn to draw and write. Put a pencil near of a two years old. He/she will pick it up and imediately try to use.

I think there is much more unknowingly used knowledge. But I would be very angry, remembering what all I could do in my previous life and now as a baby or toddler can't do so because a don't yet have enough fine motor skills

So I prefer to learn newly in new lifetime, step by step (with "help" of gathered basic knowledge of past lives inserting it unknowingly. )

 

[uniquemand]

Yes. The method by which knowledge is pulled forward is by writing it down, and storing it in a book, which is then stored in a library, or these days, digitized and stored on the internet.

 

[ladybeetle]

Yes. The method by which knowledge is pulled forward is by writing it down, and storing it in a book, which is then stored in a library, or these days, digitized and stored on the internet.

I agree.
But this is not very beneficial to small babies and trollers. the can't yet read
But nevertheless it seems that they bring along some basic knowledges when they start new life :wink2:

 

[Ladybird]

Yes. The method by which knowledge is pulled forward is by writing it down, and storing it in a book, which is then stored in a library, or these days, digitized and stored on the internet.

OR: saved on gold and platinum disks stored in deep caves and abandoned mines with big huge messages that can only be seen from outer space.

Scientology was not the 1st to think of that...

 

[Pepin]

What Scientology promises is something other than dying over and over and over again and freedom from all the loss and pain that entails. I think it must be a pretty universal experience. Most religions promise a way out of the cycle of birth and death into some sort of nivana or heaven or "Target 2" or whatever they call it.

We would all like answers. I have searched long and hard and I have found some but not the real secret yet.

Have you?

I can understand why scientology could make such a promise.
I too was motivated to get another body. I know exactly why I did and the state of mind/spirit I was when I made the choice.

In difference to an earlier post of knowledge being a burdon, I quote:
" The beginning of wisdom is to aquire knowledge and with all that you aquire, get understanding"

I believe the only way to have true understanding is by first hand knowledge. Direct observation.
Not blind acceptance of other peoples "theories".

 

[Dark Phoenix]

I believe in past lives and reincarnation, IMO I have solid hard proof that it happens.

However I am sick and tired of it and don't want to play that game anymore.

I find it extremely hard to get my head around reincarnation for several reasons. I've never experienced any memory or state of awareness of past lives and if I did, I think I'd be wary of accepting such as proof of reincarnation.

But I think the idea of having to come back here again and again is also quite scary to me. I already find this life hard enough, I dread to think what I might have to face in a future life. So once around the track is enough for me
________
Headaches / migraines forums

 

[ttamaad]

Yes. The method by which knowledge is pulled forward is by writing it down, and storing it in a book, which is then stored in a library, or these days, digitized and stored on the internet.

Yep, that is the way we do it now... but every now and then some little child comes along and by three is playing a concerto on the piano or we got some freak sportsman like Tiger Woods.

Both these are two entirely different examples of something else than knowledge found in a book

In Tigers case it may just be practice makes perfect but when a child plays the piano like that, you have to wonder where this knowledge came from and why it stuck with them and not others????

 

[nw2394]

What Scientology promises is something other than dying over and over and over again and freedom from all the loss and pain that entails.

Well, if you believe in reincarnation (or any similar sort of thing), why should death necessarily be seen as a loss?

For sure, if it happens rather prematurely - well - it would put a bit of a crimp on your day - but, you could look at as an opportunity to take up a new identity, new games or whatever. Depends mainly on your attitude, tone level or whatever you want to call it.

I think it must be a pretty universal experience. Most religions promise a way out of the cycle of birth and death into some sort of nivana or heaven or "Target 2" or whatever they call it.

We would all like answers. I have searched long and hard and I have found some but not the real secret yet.

Have you?

Well, as Hubbard and I'm sure others have said, the secret is there is no secret. There is living life - or there is no life - and there is the ending of old games which you no longer want to play and starting new ones. Which do you want?

Nick

 

[Ladybird]

Well, as Hubbard and I'm sure others have said, the secret is there is no secret. There is living life - or there is no life - and there is the ending of old games which you no longer want to play and starting new ones. Which do you want?

Nick

I agree, there is no secret, not that anyone knows of. It is fraud on the part of Hubbard (and any "religion") to try to sell you one, whether by charging money, demanding your soul or through threats of eternal damnation.

It can't be either relive life after life or have no life, there has to be more to it.

The game I don't want to play is loving and caring and then losing the ones you love and not knowing how to find them again. It's deeply painful and makes you afraid to give and love when you remember what you lost, but if you don't remember you have no hope of finding them again, but when you find them you know your going to lose them again.

What do I want? I want peace and love without going through the loss of death and starting over from scratch every few decades. I want to either KNOW or NOT KNOW. It's the repetitive game I am sick of, but maybe I am just suffering post scientology distress syndrome.

 

[Roan]

"Everyone should make a strenuous effort not to leave this world with a return ticket."

So let's say you don't quite make it. You drop your body and.. whoops! you see a return ticket (a rebirth) in your hand. :confused2: You were still striving (weren't you?) and to the degree you strove, you are reborn into more auspicious circumstances.
It becomes "easier" in each successive life to merge with the divine (realize who you are ), if that's what you choose to pursue.

That's the theory anyway (as I understand it).

Now what constitutes strenuous effort or striving? That may be a different thread!



.

 

[Abaddon]

"Everyone should make a strenuous effort not to leave this world with a return ticket."

So let's say you don't quite make it. You drop your body and.. whoops! you see a return ticket (a rebirth) in your hand. :confused2: You were still striving (weren't you?) and to the degree you strove, you are reborn into more auspicious circumstances.
It becomes "easier" in each successive life to merge with the divine (realize who you are ), if that's what you choose to pursue.

That's the theory anyway (as I understand it).

Now what constitutes "striving"? That may be a different thread!

.

What if the Universe is divine and death (in the abscense of reincarnation) is our merging into it - our atoms become part of plants, bugs, animals, other people, and eventually part of asteroids, comets, etc. The protons, neutrons, and electrons that we're composed of were one with everything else in existance before the big bang and, since then, have been part of a molecular cloud, a protoplanetary disk, part of our planet, part of dinosaurs, part of our ancestors, etc. etc. Maybe that is reincarnation.

Maybe our consciousness is just a temporary state (rather than the permanent state of a 'soul') that has been given to us as a gift so that we may experience the Universe in all its greatness.

This message brought to you by Heineken, quite obviously.

 

[Dulloldfart]

The game I don't want to play is loving and caring and then losing the ones you love and not knowing how to find them again. It's deeply painful and makes you afraid to give and love when you remember what you lost, but if you don't remember you have no hope of finding them again, but when you find them you know your going to lose them again.

Have you read Michael Newton's careful research? From what he has found, there is zero chance of losing such individuals, although they don't always play a significant part in one's every lifetime. He says there is always reunion between lives.

Paul

 

[Pepin]

The game I don't want to play is loving and caring and then losing the ones you love and not knowing how to find them again.

Thew way to find someone:
Know what their heart feels like and look!
(with your heart)

This is how I found the wife from before.

 

[nw2394]

I agree, there is no secret, not that anyone knows of. It is fraud on the part of Hubbard (and any "religion") to try to sell you one, whether by charging money, demanding your soul or through threats of eternal damnation.

It can't be either relive life after life or have no life, there has to be more to it.

The game I don't want to play is loving and caring and then losing the ones you love and not knowing how to find them again. It's deeply painful and makes you afraid to give and love when you remember what you lost, but if you don't remember you have no hope of finding them again, but when you find them you know your going to lose them again.

What do I want? I want peace and love without going through the loss of death and starting over from scratch every few decades. I want to either KNOW or NOT KNOW. It's the repetitive game I am sick of, but maybe I am just suffering post scientology distress syndrome.

Well, I sympathise with your view. All I can say is that I find that people come and go in life - and some stick around for maybe quite a long time indeed - similar to what Paul has suggested. IMO Scn has helped with that (not that it is a popular view here) - but - well - you have to find out for yourself.

Nick

 

[uncle sam]

Ladybird....

I agree, there is no secret, not that anyone knows of. It is fraud on the part of Hubbard (and any "religion") to try to sell you one, whether by charging money, demanding your soul or through threats of eternal damnation.

It can't be either relive life after life or have no life, there has to be more to it.

The game I don't want to play is loving and caring and then losing the ones you love and not knowing how to find them again. It's deeply painful and makes you afraid to give and love when you remember what you lost, but if you don't remember you have no hope of finding them again, but when you find them you know your going to lose them again.

What do I want? I want peace and love without going through the loss of death and starting over from scratch every few decades. I want to either KNOW or NOT KNOW. It's the repetitive game I am sick of, but maybe I am just suffering post scientology distress syndrome.

You are not alone--I share most of your sentiments. The interesting thing about this subject is 'that no one knows for sure'. They may think-hope-believe-pray etc etc-but-not for an absolute fact.

 

[SweetnessandLight]

My experience

I agree, there is no secret, not that anyone knows of. It is fraud on the part of Hubbard (and any "religion") to try to sell you one, whether by charging money, demanding your soul or through threats of eternal damnation.

It can't be either relive life after life or have no life, there has to be more to it.

The game I don't want to play is loving and caring and then losing the ones you love and not knowing how to find them again. It's deeply painful and makes you afraid to give and love when you remember what you lost, but if you don't remember you have no hope of finding them again, but when you find them you know your going to lose them again.

What do I want? I want peace and love without going through the loss of death and starting over from scratch every few decades. I want to either KNOW or NOT KNOW. It's the repetitive game I am sick of, but maybe I am just suffering post scientology distress syndrome.

Ladybird, in my experience, you can recognize them, sometimes right away, or after a little interaction. It is by "seeing" with the heart that one perceives rightly, remember "The Little Prince"? Nothing real is ever truly lost. It also helps if you can learn to love lots and lots of people, it ups your odds of encountering soul mates! (Both here and hereafter.)