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ESMB and The Freezone - let's have it out!

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CATS SQUIRREL

"OT I agree about. Clears; by Pilot's definition of "able to confront the force in mental image pictures"; I believe they do exist."

BB
OT is up for discussion on other threads.

This is my favorite definition of clear. I believe Mayo said something similar.

I've done this by the way, as I expect many have.

The lack of this ability fuels many hollywood motion pictures. I love that popular junk culture may enlighten some.

And that serious culture may also. Shit, I'm rambling.

I'm upping the anti personally however. I've committed to going to one of the main Biker haunts in the UK to say hallo from a compadre.

If I'm still alive afterwords i'll report. :)
 
acertainratio said:
If you've never been in a combat situation, you're not likely to understand what a buzz it is. You'd definitely have a floating TA afterwards.

Near death experiences can become very addictive too. I used to enjoy them and seek them out.

I once jumped off a fast moving express train just for a laugh.

Used to have massive punchups with my mates too just for a laugh.

So yes, fighting can and does produce vgi's and prob. a floating TA, but it's far from therapeutic.

Believe me, I know.
Click to expand...

OK.

Most of the fights I've been in weren't of my choosing, which is why I don't identify with this, they were more like games conditions in which I was trying to shake somebody off whom I perceived to be a danger.

The people I've seen coming out of fights they clearly did enjoy had a kind of "glee of insanity" look about them (-26); very different from the look you'd have if you'd blown a bunch of charge in session.

And of course even when you've "won" a fight you've got the overt/ motivator sequence to look forward to when the other person picks his moment to retaliate..
 
I also want to say that I appreciate and respect the atmosphere here. The intent and the work that has gone into making this a civil place and keeping it that way is a good thing. I'm not exactly a regular here and am sometimes guilty of just dropping in when I see something that frosts my hide and letting loose with my... "frustrations."
This was pointed out to me last night. :smack:
I will endeavour to improve my behaviour in this area and respect that this is a "community" that I am not exactly a "full member" of.

I understand people not exactly being enamored with my shenanigans, but in this case I am truly angered and outraged... at certain kinds of people who delve into mental therapy without a licence and who violate long held codes of ethics regarding confidentiality.


Oh and Fluffers... before you respond in the next post and cry to the high heavens about how I "mentioned you" in the post I made: You are not a victim Fluffy, it is not against the rules here to point out that you are NOT an ex-scientologist. Here's a stable datum for 'ya Fluffs: I am an ex-scientologist; you are not. This is the stable datum that you and I need to build off of.

:carryon:
 
acertainratio said:
he he - that'a all fair enough - most of what I said was just piss taking anyway, but Scientology is a dirty subject - a little world where people get their lives and families wrecked, and some people have died before their time. Because of that from time to time people will be in a dark place and conventional 'niceness' will not suffice for some people as a mode of expression.


For you, wherever you are in the process, it works and that's ok.

Just realise that people who are in a darker place have rights too, and let them have their say in a way that works for them.

Now go forth and multiply.
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I'm surprised to say that I do actually agree with this no matter how it's interperated, because at the end of the day, it's true. We had to stifle any and all emotions while in the cult and we had to be 'nice' little robots too, and in the waking process, it is only natural as I see it that one may indeed still be sometimes in a darker place. It's all just yin and yang really, it's only energy, it's only viewpoints, no one is getting murder threats here, it's only the odd cuss now and then. Axiom you're reply was very well handled by the way, it was and that has to be said. I hate that you would think anyone was ignoring you, I am sure that's not true at all and I am sure I have answered your posts in the past. When I first came to this board I felt a little ignored to, but that was I realize now just a cry for attention and the desperate need for an acknowledgement that I had acutally made it to this board, it was a massive step for me and I am proud of myself for doing so, and so should we all be, but now I just think that I'm going to say what I think here and there and if someone wants to reply they will and if they don't they won't, it's not a slight on my character that sometimes I post things that no one seems to acknowledge. But really, that doesn't matter, I'm posting for myself first and foremost.

There is so much going on on this forum it's hard to keep up at the best of times anyway and sometimes I get mad that I've missed an important thread, but we can't be everywhere at once that's for sure. This is a very very interesting concept of your acertainratio, that people who are in a darker place have rights too, and it's true, even murderers have rights, we all have human rights, it's certainly something to think about and thank you both for posting. :yes:
 
Roan said:
I also want to say that I appreciate and respect the atmosphere here. The intent and the work that has gone into making this a civil place and keeping it that way is a good thing. I'm not exactly a regular here and am sometimes guilty of just dropping in when I see something that frosts my hide and letting loose with my... "frustrations."
This was pointed out to me last night. :smack:
I will endeavour to improve my behaviour in this area and respect that this is a "community" that I am not exactly a "full member" of.

I understand people not exactly being enamored with my shenanigans, but in this case I am truly angered and outraged... at certain kinds of people who delve into mental therapy without a licence and who violate long held codes of ethics regarding confidentiality.


Oh and Fluffers... before you respond in the next post and cry to the high heavens about how I "mentioned you" in the post I made: You are not a victim Fluffy, it is not against the rules here to point out that you are NOT an ex-scientologist. Here's a stable datum for 'ya Fluffs: I am an ex-scientologist; you are not. This is the stable datum that you and I need to build off of.

:carryon:
Click to expand...


Well, first off, my nick is not "fluffers". I've asked you to quit calling me that and you know exactly why I did. You yourself commented on the inadvisability of calling a woman that.

The other thing is that you misrepresented what I wrote and said. It wasn't anything I'd ever said or implied or felt. I objected to this false statement for that very reason- it just wasn't true. I also thought the reference to me was needlessly gratuitous and was a non sequitur.

I'm certainly no victim. I think for myself and I stand up for myself. I made it through a lot of bullshit handlings by CofS and I made it through a lot of bullshit handlings by people who were alleged critics. I've always dealt with whatever life had in store for me.

I don't give a flying leap in a doughnut hole that you aren't a Scn'ist and I am. It's not relevant to the facts above. You're welcome to your perspective on Scn. It's fine with me.
 
Hi, Mick,

Are you confusing bleeding and screams of "Ow, ow, ow" with euphoric cultie bliss? I always thought the movie "fight club" was fiction...:neener: :tease: :blowkiss:
 
fluffy said:
Hi, Mick,

Are you confusing bleeding and screams of "Ow, ow, ow" with euphoric cultie bliss? I always thought the movie "fight club" was fiction...:neener: :tease: :blowkiss:
Click to expand...

I think he is talking about the euphoria that comes from fighting. Winston Churchill said that "There is nothing so exilarating as being shot at without result."
It's also what makes the NFL so great. :thewave:

The Anabaptist Jacques
 
cutting the umbilical cord

When a person functioning in reality is faced and armed with well researched and documented factual information about proven mind control techniques used on them, suicides and psychotic breaks of cult members, no results or at best temporary results, and acknowledges the fact that scn teaches strongly to suppress any negative emotions about the tech, and then can still heartedly have found a way to ignore these facts and 'hold on' to this idea that :

a well documented liar, madman, drug addict, child abuser, torturer, and evil intentioned sociopath could write or produce any BENEVOLENT techniques to 'release' a person minds permanently of their troubles BEGS to be challenged.
These folks that insist 'the tech' works and worse continue to use it on others, to me as a true EX scn, I feel we are in fact talking to a cult personality clearly.

I hope it is OK with Mr. Hassan that I quote an exerpt from his book : Releasing the Bonds, Empowering people to think for themselves
..."the cult identity is created by sophisticated mind control techniques. It does not represent the whole individual. You might tell those who are taken in by the cult identity to look behind the smiling mask. Remember, members are taught to suppress negative personal thoughts and emotions. They are trained to speak only positively of their involvement. When a cult member says he is "happy", it is usually the cult identity that is talking. The cult self is doing what it has been instructed to do." page 116-117

When MANY Ex'es have provided for you sources for copied Hubbard concepts (from tone scale to suppression) that factually predates Hubbard, DN & SCN, much from malevolent sources, and that 'someone' still insists that scientology tech should live on and be used....where is the sanity in that thought process?

:happydance: I had a blast at lunch today, I laughed so hard with some friends....reminiscing etc.....I came out of lunch high on ARC, happy, just on top of the world!

Wait, where I have felt that before? Oh yeah...I remember now, when I did a scn process that gave me a temporary win that faded 3 days later when the correction list was done or the next process done was my 'sec check recheck supercheck that it was right check' .

So I got the same 'high' 'blown out' feeling from some good old fashioned friendship in the real world. This is just one example of the 'real life ' replacements for the 'tech'. The tech has been reported by so so many to, in the end make you smaller and smaller and smaller and more PTS and more PTS , more crazy, and smaller until you are SO small that only those filtered sunglasses the scientologists give you to wear fit.

To anyone with doubts or anyone still defending the madmans ideas....why not just read the research, read read read....listen to the people that have left, the sea org members of years past that saw LRH order a child into a locker for a week....

a madman sociopath means to DO HARM...AND ONLY HARM. :angry:
Only he did it with a smile...but then again that IS what sociopaths DO!!!!!

Who can't see how fooled you have been, how conned you have been?

These and other obnoxious pearls will be continued.
 
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Thanks

I keep forgetting to acknowledge Pixie and others who share so eloquently in their posts, the reality of the 'tech' and also the reality of the FZ. I have read these posts and I love your posts.
Thank You!
 
I've heard the comparison between auditing and talking to friends before.

I would just say this: Would you compare psychotherapy with just talking to friends?

Most people wouldn't.
 
From Fluffy: I've heard the comparison between auditing and talking to friends before.

I would just say this: Would you compare psychotherapy with just talking to friends?




No I wouldn't.

Because people do come into legitimate problems in life whereby theu need help. Like grief that continues so long that a person is stuck in life, like real clinical depression. In many cases I believe wholeheartedly in getting help by a licensed person and also a person that you get along with or click with.

I believe people need help at times in life, the kind that can't be had from a good lunch with friends. But the good clinicians of psychology (watch out for the bad ones as in any profession), dont use emeters that can be easily fooled, that have been proven to be inaccurate, and they don't sec check a person and make them feel criminal.
 
This has been an interesting thread, with some remarkably insightful posts and some at the other end of the spectrum.

Emma's original post was about ESMB being used by the Freezone, and that is obviously going to raise some emotional reactions. What I find disturbing is how the bizarre conspiracy theory about a moderator here being a secret Freezoner out to squash information and so on, was taken up as a "cause" with speed and hysteria under the umbrella of "free speech". God knows where that one came from! :ohmy:

I must say, I have lost respect for a couple of posters invoved with that. It is exactly that sort of rubbish that I left behind when I left Scientology... I thought. It's reminicent of kangaroo courts (CommEvs) where wrong information is accepted without question and judgement is passed arbitrarily, and the subject of it held up to be crucified. A tiny bit of investigation - looking at the thread concerned - shows it was a rubbish idea, and yet that didn't happen until after other posters were recruited to forward the cause by repeat posting.

Isn't that what we left behind? Is the idea now that it's OK to belittle and attack any kind of "authority" (ie moderator in this case) so we can say or attack whatever we like? Maybe mistakes were made, I don't know, it seems like there wasn't time allowed to sort things out before it got crusade-ish (new word) and things were said in the heat of the moment that perhaps otherwise would not have been.

Let's all have our say, sure. Let's also do it with respect. I am grateful to Emma for this board, very grateful. I am grateful there are moderators here who obviously try and do that so it hasn't ended up like other boards. Let's keep it that way.
 
Destructive Mind Control

We can all agree that 'management' of the C of S has and is messing up, but that does not remotely mean that giving the 'tech' a pass in any form is OK either. This cult and all of it's processes were obviously developed to do harm plain and simple. A benevolent man did not write the tech.

A group that demonstrates all eight criteria is using destructive mind control (Hassan page 33-34)

Dr. Robert J. Lifton's Eight Criteria for Thought Reform
1. Milieu Control. This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large.
2. Mystical Manipulation. There is manipulation of experiences that appear spontaneous but in fact were planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders in order to demonstrate divine authority or spiritual advancement or some special gift or talent that will then allow the leader to reinterpret events, scripture, and experiences as he or she wishes.
3. Demand for Purity. The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here.
4. Confession. Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members' "sins," "attitudes," and "faults" are discussed and exploited by the leaders.
5. Sacred Science. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism.
6. Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clichés, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking.
7. Doctrine over person. Member's personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group.
8. Dispensing of existence. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious and they must be converted to the group's ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also. (Lifton, 1989)
 
Free to Shine,
I think this thread was a good thing. We aired our differences and everyone seemed to get their say. Plus it was dramatic. This was not what we left behind when we left Scientology. Here, contrary views can be argued and discussed. In Scientology none of this could happen.
This thread, I think, was a great example of the progress mankind hs made. I don't want to sound over dramatic, but it was a dynamic process of the clash of ideas and it remained civilized. Its our own liberal society.

The Anabaptist Jacques
 
Free to shine said:
.... What I find disturbing is how the bizarre conspiracy theory about a moderator here being a secret Freezoner out to squash information and so on, was taken up as a "cause" with speed and hysteria under the umbrella of "free speech". God knows where that one came from! :ohmy:

I must say, I have lost respect for a couple of posters invoved with that. It is exactly that sort of rubbish that I left behind when I left Scientology... I thought. It's reminicent of kangaroo courts (CommEvs) where wrong information is accepted without question and judgement is passed arbitrarily, and the subject of it held up to be crucified.
Click to expand...

No one accepted a conclusion that the moderator "Thor" was a secret freezoner.

I asked Div6 if he was "Thor". (Div 6 is a freezoner and the one who first posted <>'s Auditor's Success Story")

He never answered.

I asked Emma if Div6 was Thor. She said that he wasn't. I accepted her answer.

Then I said that I believed that the censorship of Roan's post was related to <>'s "Success Story" being taken down.

Emma said that it wasn't related. Then she explained why.

I had a question and I asked it. I had a belief that appeared to turn out to be wrong when I got it clarified by Emma.

Yet Roan has since posted information that has shown that the belief may not be wrong. We now have conflicting information that should be cleared up. Was Roan's post censored in relation to <>'s Success Story? The moderator "Thor" said it was.

It was Emma who has labeled it all a "conspiracy theory".

I never said there was a conspiracy.

A tiny bit of investigation - looking at the thread concerned - shows it was a rubbish idea, and yet that didn't happen until after other posters were recruited to forward the cause by repeat posting.

Isn't that what we left behind? Is the idea now that it's OK to belittle and attack any kind of "authority" (ie moderator in this case) so we can say or attack whatever we like? Maybe mistakes were made, I don't know, it seems like there wasn't time allowed to sort things out before it got crusade-ish (new word) and things were said in the heat of the moment that perhaps otherwise would not have been.
Click to expand...
Maybe so.

Let's all have our say, sure. Let's also do it with respect. I am grateful to Emma for this board, very grateful. I am grateful there are moderators here who obviously try and do that so it hasn't ended up like other boards. Let's keep it that way.
Click to expand...
I am grateful to this board, too.

Now, this is a serious question, FTS: Where was the disrespect?
 
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As for psychiatry: A relative of mine had a very bad problem with OCD. I found a shrink for that person, and I will never apologize to anyone for that. The shrink was in no shape or form an evil sp. He was an expert in the field and did wonders for my relative. And yeah, he prescribed some prozac for my relative! :omg: And they WORKED!!

So my thought is if $cientology says it's bad, it's good. If $cientology says it's good, it's bad.

And I totally agree with you boldgirl. Elron was a psycopathic degenerate.
 
Roan said:
I'm back.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
:
Originally Posted by Emma
Once again......

The post was NOT DELETED BECAUSE IT MENTIONED THE INCIDENT WITH PIERRE.

It was deleted because of how it was worded. Had Roan just reworded the post without the invective, we wouldn't be having this ridiculous conversation.
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With all due respect to Emma and Thor, the above is simply not true. That's not how it went down, that's NOT what was said. Alanzo and I respect moderation, I think what we don't accept is censorship AND being told that something was said or something happened that DID NOT HAPPEN THAT WAY.

Thor removed my post because he wanted the topic of Pierre Ethier to die. I was just newly here on the thread BEGINNING to talk about it. He didn't want me bringing up a topic that he didn't want to continue.

Here's the proof:

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roan View Post

Hey, what happened to my post?!? If some Mod. deleted it I want to why? Is the Mod. some Freezone lackey??

I'm copying all these posts I make and I WILL keep re-posting them. The title of the thread IS "..let's have it out!" fer crissakes!

"Your post was deleted because it was an obvious attempt to reinvigorate an acrimonious spat that was already in dying.

If you repost it, it will be deleted again. If you continue to attempt to force it, you may be removed.

Thor"


Roan said
No mention was made of my tone or my language by Thor. I must in good conscience take exception to people saying that my post was removed for those reasons. It was not.

.
Click to expand...

I was going to drop this, but naaaaah.

How do we explain the information in Roan's post above?

Emma?

Thor?

Anyone?
 
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